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Worth to upgrade to schiit stack with ROG Mobo?

Space Lynx

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well said, the vali 2 at $99 is hard to beat. and you honestly don't even need to upgrade the stock tube, but say your gf or wife wants to buy you something for bday and can never think of anything, well tell them you want a golden lion tube for it. or head over to head fi vali 2 forum page at head-fi.com or w.e it is called. there is a vali 2 tube rolling thread, just browse it.
 
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well said, the vali 2 at $99 is hard to beat. and you honestly don't even need to upgrade the stock tube, but say your gf or wife wants to buy you something for bday and can never think of anything, well tell them you want a golden lion tube for it. or head over to head fi vali 2 forum page at head-fi.com or w.e it is called. there is a vali 2 tube rolling thread, just browse it.
Thanks. I'm no schiit fanboy myself, but the Vali 2 really is a great value. I got mine full price and I still have no regrets. 99 bucks for an all-rounder with actual tube goodness is such a no-brainer!

And yeah, I'd second the tube rolling recommendation. It really isn't needed, but it does add to the performance. The stock tube is good, but the aftermarket ones are generally better, even the cheap ones. They'll get ya that extra 10%, or maybe just some subjective changes you'll appreciate. Just don't get carried away, spending more on tubes than the amp itself. Maybe try 3 cheaper ones or something. Collect a few here and there. It's fun.

Most of my tubes, I've gotten for cheap just talking to people online and stuff like that. People frequently collect, trade, and sell them off. Which, sometimes that's not a bad way to try a lot of different ones without spending a whole lot. I got a really, REALLY nice tube for something like $10. The guy just wanted to pass some of his unused ones on to somebody who'd appreciate them. He actually gave me 3 tubes. A Matsushita 7dj8, two pretty rare Valvo tubes (one of which was like, the holy grail for me - I could have turned that one over for $50 or more back then, probably more now.) The Valvo unfortunately got lost. Now I use the Matsushita and really like it. And those guys can be had for what? 20 bucks?

Point is, sometimes if you ask around in the right places, some kind soul might help you out. Other times, suppliers come into a surplus of good, vintage tubes and thus sell them off dirt cheap. Dirt cheap tubes are often pretty good. The most common tubes out there are $10-$20 generally, and they're still great as a small upgrade. It's rarity that makes them expensive. A super-rare, $100+ tube may not actually sound much better - it's just that people want them, or certain amps that take several of them are built up around them and there aren't enough to go around.

Now, the most expensive tube I had was a Phillips PCC88. That thing was really something else and opened my ears to the idea that tube rolling really isn't nonsense. It cost me $40. Not a huge deal. Too bad this is the one I broke. Man... that one hurt me. Now, they go for like $60. :/
 

paymok

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Thanks. I'm no schiit fanboy myself, but the Vali 2 really is a great value. I got mine full price and I still have no regrets. 99 bucks for an all-rounder with actual tube goodness is such a no-brainer!

And yeah, I'd second the tube rolling recommendation. It really isn't needed, but it does add to the performance. The stock tube is good, but the aftermarket ones are generally better, even the cheap ones. They'll get ya that extra 10%, or maybe just some subjective changes you'll appreciate. Just don't get carried away, spending more on tubes than the amp itself. Maybe try 3 cheaper ones or something. Collect a few here and there. It's fun.

Most of my tubes, I've gotten for cheap just talking to people online and stuff like that. People frequently collect, trade, and sell them off. Which, sometimes that's not a bad way to try a lot of different ones without spending a whole lot. I got a really, REALLY nice tube for something like $10. The guy just wanted to pass some of his unused ones on to somebody who'd appreciate them. He actually gave me 3 tubes. A Matsushita 7dj8, two pretty rare Valvo tubes (one of which was like, the holy grail for me - I could have turned that one over for $50 or more back then, probably more now.) The Valvo unfortunately got lost. Now I use the Matsushita and really like it. And those guys can be had for what? 20 bucks?

Point is, sometimes if you ask around in the right places, some kind soul might help you out. Other times, suppliers come into a surplus of good, vintage tubes and thus sell them off dirt cheap. Dirt cheap tubes are often pretty good. The most common tubes out there are $10-$20 generally, and they're still great as a small upgrade. It's rarity that makes them expensive. A super-rare, $100+ tube may not actually sound much better - it's just that people want them, or certain amps that take several of them are built up around them and there aren't enough to go around.

Now, the most expensive tube I had was a Phillips PCC88. That thing was really something else and opened my ears to the idea that tube rolling really isn't nonsense. It cost me $40. Not a huge deal. Too bad this is the one I broke. Man... that one hurt me. Now, they go for like $60. :/

thanks! now i really thinking go for a Vali 2 B-stock. But still i am a little bit worry on the B-stock quality,
I understand they do test them over, but who knows anything they have missed! they said they could even found some while cleaning out shop!
I am waiting for their reply, and also think if magni 3 and Vali 2 makes such a good differences, and if i am worry about the B-stock Vali2...
Maybe should go for Magni 3 + Vali 2 B-stock.... ? I am not live in US so to me the shipment cost already added $40 sth, plus let say if i am so unfortunate needs to send back a defect Vali 2 b-stock,
thats another $40 sth, the total shipment cost can buy another Magni 3. If thats the case I wouldn't bother to send back to defect Vali 2 if anything wrong.
If the Vali 2 b-stock is perfectly fine, is it worth to have 2 amp? of course i can also sell it locally see which one suits me better after hear them out.

well they just dump out bunch of modi 2, magni 2 uber. Now i am getting more choice to pick...
 
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thanks! now i really thinking go for a Vali 2 B-stock. But still i am a little bit worry on the B-stock quality,
I understand they do test them over, but who knows anything they have missed! they said they could even found some while cleaning out shop!
I am waiting for their reply, and also think if magni 3 and Vali 2 makes such a good differences, and if i am worry about the B-stock Vali2...
Maybe should go for Magni 3 + Vali 2 B-stock.... ? I am not live in US so to me the shipment cost already added $40 sth, plus let say if i am so unfortunate needs to send back a defect Vali 2 b-stock,
thats another $40 sth, the total shipment cost can buy another Magni 3. If thats the case I wouldn't bother to send back to defect Vali 2 if anything wrong.
If the Vali 2 b-stock is perfectly fine, is it worth to have 2 amp? of course i can also sell it locally see which one suits me better after hear them out.
I think if it came down to a situation like that, they *might* just help you out. I guess that is a real risk. I've always kind of assumed most of the b-stock doesn't meet cosmetic standards. It's not like they take a bad board and refurbish it. I remember reading that they're kind of picky when it comes to casework. Sometimes they get a batch that's not quite to spec. Maybe the sizing isn't quite right or something doesn't align quite like the others. Maybe the finish is wrong, or there are imperfections. Or the lettering is sloppy. Maybe they forgot the bevel... ...things like that.

In fact, I think that'd explain why they have so many. Could just be a subpar run of cases. Usually it's either cosmetic, or customer just didn't want it. Everything they sell is under warranty, so if a customer sends in a defective/broken unit, they fix it and send it back. And if they can't fix it, they toss it.

So yeah, maybe a risk. But not a huge one imo. That's really your call to make. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you nahhhh it'll be fine and then have that exact thing happen, haha!


well they just dump out bunch of modi 2, magni 2 uber. Now i am getting more choice to pick...
Magni 2 Uber is a pretty solid amp. For $69 it's a killer deal. I still think the Vali 2 is a good bit better for what they're asking, but if you want something that's still good and costs even less, not a bad option. It won't let ya down.

The Modi 2... ...well the older ones weren't the greatest. Nowhere near the clarity and smoothness of the Uber... ...a bit on the "digital" side. On par with maybe the ODAC or something similar. Now when I heard it, they were using a different dac chip. Now, they use 4490's in em instead - just like they started doing in the Uber. It's a much nicer chip. But the OG Modi still has the problem of USB power, which in addition to being kind of wonky and prone to random drop-outs, does seem to affect the overall sound negatively. How bad it is comes down to things that you can't know off of the bat. It depends on how noisey your usb is, how the mobo actually handles usb power, and a few other things. Even other components installed can affect it negatively. USB power is not made to do that. By trying to power a sensitive piece of audio equipment via USB, you are subjecting it to interference from basically everything else on the board, and maybe even things in the room, via other components in the computer picking up interference and passing it down the line. DACs are just that power sensitive. It's very important. When the power screws up/dips/peaks, DACs tend to just not work... ...as in randomly just disconnect. With some computers, it's not bad - you may just get pops and clicks, while others can be pretty crummy - frequent dropouts, failure to detect, terrible quality, etc.. With the one I tried, simply turning on the fan in the room would force a disconnect. Seriously! And it's not defective. It's just not a good design. Otherwise it sounded okay...

You won't know until you try. This is another one of those things where it's REALLY good for the money, but that's about it. With better components the risk of running into issues like that is less, but the quality still suffers from subpar USB power. Schiit actually invented the Wyrd specifically to deal with this. By isolating the USB, it stops the dropouts and supposedly increases quality (dunno if they even believe that - and they say so, which is kind of funny). But now you've bought a $100 box just to make your $70 box work like it should. Might as well get the M2U at that point.

And having 2 amps? Nah I don't think it's worth it, unless you plan on having multiple pairs of cans with different synergies... ...but even that seems crazy to me o_O I reckon most people have a favorite they'll always come back to. Well... I guess they both have unbalanced outs, so you can use the less favored one as a preamp for volume control on powered speakers. Just split the output from your dac. Kind of an expensive preamp though.
 
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Space Lynx

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I own 5 amps, 3 DAC's, and 11 headphones at the moment, and have owned over 200 headphones in the last 3 years. lol

my favorite budget combo is still the Philips SHP-9500S with Hm5 leather earpads and Fiio K1 amp/dac, but it scales nicely, so I don't use the fiio k1 anymore myself, lyr 3 of course
 

paymok

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I think if it came down to a situation like that, they *might* just help you out. I guess that is a real risk. I've always kind of assumed most of the b-stock doesn't meet cosmetic standards. It's not like they take a bad board and refurbish it. I remember reading that they're kind of picky when it comes to casework. Sometimes they get a batch that's not quite to spec. Maybe the sizing isn't quite right or something doesn't align quite like the others. Maybe the finish is wrong, or there are imperfections. Or the lettering is sloppy. Maybe they forgot the bevel... ...things like that.

In fact, I think that'd explain why they have so many. Could just be a subpar run of cases. Usually it's either cosmetic, or customer just didn't want it. Everything they sell is under warranty, so if a customer sends in a defective/broken unit, they fix it and send it back. And if they can't fix it, they toss it.

So yeah, maybe a risk. But not a huge one imo. That's really your call to make. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you nahhhh it'll be fine and then have that exact thing happen, haha!



Magni 2 Uber is a pretty solid amp. For $69 it's a killer deal. I still think the Vali 2 is a good bit better for what they're asking, but if you want something that's still good and costs even less, not a bad option. It won't let ya down.

The Modi 2... ...well the older ones weren't the greatest. Nowhere near the clarity and smoothness of the Uber... ...a bit on the "digital" side. On par with maybe the ODAC or something similar. Now when I heard it, they were using a different dac chip. Now, they use 4490's in em instead - just like they started doing in the Uber. It's a much nicer chip. But the OG Modi still has the problem of USB power, which in addition to being kind of wonky and prone to random drop-outs, does seem to affect the overall sound negatively. How bad it is comes down to things that you can't know off of the bat. It depends on how noisey your usb is, how the mobo actually handles usb power, and a few other things. Even other components installed can affect it negatively. USB power is not made to do that. By trying to power a sensitive piece of audio equipment via USB, you are subjecting it to interference from basically everything else on the board, and maybe even things in the room, via other components in the computer picking up interference and passing it down the line. DACs are just that power sensitive. It's very important. When the power screws up/dips/peaks, DACs tend to just not work... ...as in randomly just disconnect. With some computers, it's not bad - you may just get pops and clicks, while others can be pretty crummy - frequent dropouts, failure to detect, terrible quality, etc.. With the one I tried, simply turning on the fan in the room would force a disconnect. Seriously! And it's not defective. It's just not a good design. Otherwise it sounded okay...

You won't know until you try. This is another one of those things where it's REALLY good for the money, but that's about it. With better components the risk of running into issues like that is less, but the quality still suffers from subpar USB power. Schiit actually invented the Wyrd specifically to deal with this. By isolating the USB, it stops the dropouts and supposedly increases quality (dunno if they even believe that - and they say so, which is kind of funny). But now you've bought a $100 box just to make your $70 box work like it should. Might as well get the M2U at that point.

And having 2 amps? Nah I don't think it's worth it, unless you plan on having multiple pairs of cans with different synergies... ...but even that seems crazy to me o_O I reckon most people have a favorite they'll always come back to. Well... I guess they both have unbalanced outs, so you can use the less favored one as a preamp for volume control on powered speakers. Just split the output from your dac. Kind of an expensive preamp though.

Yes the risk is a bit of the concern to me, I saw someone had vali2 and he had some ring issue , and schiit didn't repair it as they said that is normal, so at the end he returned it and bought a little-dot 1 instead.

I read further and found most tube amp needs to warm up the tube before actual use? And better turn it off if not use ? I'm a bit concerned on this because I was planned to connect the vali2 to my desktop speaker, I seldom turn off my computer, I leave the whole rig stay on all the time. Will it hurts a lot to the amp and tube?

I see people also saids if I decided to keep it power on all the time , then just got for M3.

Also what's your opinion on modi2 multibit? It's another $100 but is it worth? I saw some reviews they said they can't really hear a difference. Or maybe safe to just avoid it ?

Just placed my order on a vali2 bstock, hope it sounds good !
 

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I had a Schiit Modi 2/Magni 2 stack. The Modi 2 died. Schiit wouldn't talk to me at all after a month of calling and emailing them. I refuse to buy their equipment. Replaced both devices with a Micca OriGen+. At low volume, it has L/R distortion that the Magni 2 didn't have. It also came with a rubbish micro USB cable that caused two BSODs. Micca said to replace the audio cable with a different one, I did, and haven't had any problems since. I'd say it's as good or better for almost half the price.
 
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Yes the risk is a bit of the concern to me, I saw someone had vali2 and he had some ring issue , and schiit didn't repair it as they said that is normal, so at the end he returned it and bought a little-dot 1 instead.
I know the Vali 1 was somewhat notorious for that. I can't remember the specifics anymore, but it had something to do with both the tube inside and the whole design. Bear in mind it's a completely different amp from the Vali 2.

That said, pretty much all tube amps can be made to ring. Vibrations in the tube generate sound. Some tubes ring more than others. My Vali 2 rings. Just not all of the time. The action of the switches causes ringing that fades after a few seconds. Otherwise the only way I ever hear it ring is if I tap the tube with my finger. Because of the power-on relays, you'll never hear it ring unless you flip the gain switch while its on. It sounds like a soft "PING!" that rapidly fades out. Again, not something you'll hear while actually using the amp.

I dunno what happened with that guys amp. Sounds a little strange. Like I said, the original ones were prone to constant ringing - it did happen to a handful of people. But I've never heard of it being a problem with the Vali 2.

I read further and found most tube amp needs to warm up the tube before actual use? And better turn it off if not use ? I'm a bit concerned on this because I was planned to connect the vali2 to my desktop speaker, I seldom turn off my computer, I leave the whole rig stay on all the time. Will it hurts a lot to the amp and tube?
Tubes degrade like light bulbs. Average for the ones used in the V2 is ~10000 hours running. So yes you will want to keep the amp off when not in use. You can leave the dac and everything else on, just flip the switch on the amp. At least it's a really satisfying switch! :p Leaving it on won't hurt the amp. Just the tube inside.

10k hours doesn't sound like a lot, but if you leave it on 4 hours a day, that's actually well over a year, at the low end. Possibly much more on the high end of what's possible. So even with heavier use, you'll likely get at least a couple of years out of a $10 tube by just turning it on only when you are at your computer and turning it off when you get up to leave or do something else. No big deal. Again, simple as flipping a switch.

Personally, I have a handful of tubes I alternate and one I tend to stick to. I have yet to burn one out in several years. I use my Vali 2 daily. Often several hours at a time.

If it really becomes a concern for you, you could always invest in the Sys for controlling your speakers. I like it because it has 2 inputs and you can use the toggle to mute the one that's active. I keep a USB recording interface feeding one and the M2U feeding the other. So when I'm working I can easily switch over to the recording interface. And when I just wanna enjoy myself or maybe hear my mixes on something nicer, I can switch right back over to the M2U. Even when not using it like that, having a mute button is appealing. I split the output from the M2U. One run goes to the sys and then the speakers. The other goes straight to the Vali 2. So when I wanna use headphones, I just switch on the amp and hit the button on the sys to mute the output to the speakers. Handy.

On the whole warm-up thing... ...I don't fully buy it. It doesn't take more than a minute or two for the heaters to bring the tube up to temperature. But hey, maybe there's a difference. People say a lot of things don't make a difference when I can hear a clear difference. I just have no idea how one would test that, if you really even could. All I know is mine seems to sound good right after turning it on. I personally don't hear a difference.

Also what's your opinion on modi2 multibit? It's another $100 but is it worth? I saw some reviews they said they can't really hear a difference. Or maybe safe to just avoid it ?
It's been tempting me for a long time. I really REALLY liked it. Thing has next-level performance, IMO. Completely different dac from the M2U. Comparable to the bifrost multibit. Personally I think people who say there's no difference between multibit and traditional are crazy, but even I have to concede that it's approaching the point of diminishing returns. But still, to get that kind of dac for $300 is a pretty big deal. If you're interested in multibit tech specifically, it's well worth the money. Otherwise, I'd probably pass.

Another thing worth noting, with the DT 990's, I think it surpasses the limit of what they can actually resolve, as I don't hear as pronounced of a difference. With my JBL LSR 305's or the HD600's, it's much more noticable... ...mostly just a lot more microdetail. It just adds a few extra layers to the sound - subtle but very meaningful. Otherwise it's just a little better tonally.

Just placed my order on a vali2 bstock, hope it sounds good !
I'm excited for you man! I think you'll really like it.

Side recc... if you have a spare, use the optical output on your mobo to the modi. Don't know if it sounds better, but it'll mitigate any problems that USB might cause. USB is just a crappy way to send high-quality audio. Plus, with optical out, you don't even need drivers.

I own 5 amps, 3 DAC's, and 11 headphones at the moment, and have owned over 200 headphones in the last 3 years. lol

my favorite budget combo is still the Philips SHP-9500S with Hm5 leather earpads and Fiio K1 amp/dac, but it scales nicely, so I don't use the fiio k1 anymore myself, lyr 3 of course
You aren't normal! :p

Nah, but from one enthusiast to another, I do get that. I've done a lot of mailers. And when I am able to return gear, I'll pay the shipping to try it. Same reason I go to the trade shows. It's fun to try all sorts of gear. And sometimes you're just in the mood for something different. Sometimes you get something and maybe it's not as good as what you already had, but it's hard to part with. I've had my share of sad goodbyes.

I still think most people would do well to stick to the one they keep coming back to and save the money for other things. Besides, why have two amps and one okay pair of headphones when you could have one amp and an AWESOME pair of headphones? Yanno?
 
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paymok

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If it really becomes a concern for you, you could always invest in the Sys for controlling your speakers. I like it because it has 2 inputs and you can use the toggle to mute the one that's active. I keep a USB recording interface feeding one and the M2U feeding the other. So when I'm working I can easily switch over to the recording interface. And when I just wanna enjoy myself or maybe hear my mixes on something nicer, I can switch right back over to the M2U. Even when not using it like that, having a mute button is appealing. I split the output from the M2U. One run goes to the sys and then the speakers. The other goes straight to the Vali 2. So when I wanna use headphones, I just switch on the amp and hit the button on the sys to mute the output to the speakers. Handy.

I am not too understand, how to you run two output from M2U?
I have 2.1 computer speaker (A good old speaker),
Here is my initial thought of now to connect all the sources and outputs.
1528006655059.png

Since you mentioning Sys, and i look it up it is 2 IN 1 out switch, looks like just a switch for switching between 2 sources?
 
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I am not too understand, how to you run two output from M2U?
I have 2.1 computer speaker (A good old speaker),
Here is my initial thought of now to connect all the sources and outputs.
View attachment 102023
Since you mentioning Sys, and i look it up it is 2 IN 1 out switch, looks like just a switch for switching between 2 sources?
The sys has a switch and potentiometer. It's a completely passive device. It doesn't alter the signal, it just lets it through to varying degrees. At 100% it acts like it's not even there. As you turn the knob, it attenuates the signal more and more. The degradation is so slight you'll never hear it. Better than a crappy active preamp that can add noise, distortion, and coloration. Maybe better than good ones, too. Handy volume control for powered monitors, too. I use the toggle because I have two output devices from my computer - the M2U and my crappy Behringer recording interface. That one has its own RCA outs. The sys lets me output one or the other through my speakers. Though when I'm just using the M2U, the toggle doubles as a way to quickly mute the speakers, for when I'm using the Vali 2 instead.

Looks like you've got it right with connecting everything, assuming that you mean to connect the Vali 2's output on the back to your speakers. Since you're using the Vali 2's preamp out for your speakers, no splitter is needed. You can toggle between PC - M2U - Vali 2 - headphones/speakers or console - M2U - Vali 2 - headphones/speakers by pressing the button on the M2U. It automatically starts picking up the sound. And if you have it set as your default, Win10 should automatically pick it back up when you switch back.

To work in the sys, you split the M2U's L/R outputs with two pairs of RCA y-cable splitters like these. One pair goes to the Vali 2, while the other goes to the sys, which goes to your speakers. This allows you to isolate the speakers from the Vali 2 and still have volume control, so you can leave the amp off when you're using your speakers. All you do to switch is press the toggle on the sys to essentially mute your speakers and then flip on the Vali 2.

I can give that arrangement a soft recommendation. Most people like to have a transparent preamp output to speakers. Distortion and coloration are usually a detriment to speakers. You want to alter the signal as little as possible. Tube magic is great for toning down headphones and giving a better sense of space - many have problems there, but most speakers don't share those same problems and simply don't benefit. And neither does your tube.

I mean, there are great active preamps out there - some even have tubes, but the Vali 2 is not much of one really. Not bad, and not good. So it doesn't add anything other than wear on the tube. And that wear isn't worth it imo. I've tried using my Vali 2 a preamp and it does not have the same magic with speakers as it does headphones. The differences were honestly very, very subtle. Hard to even tell apart. So you're burning up your tube a little quicker, but you're not appreciating it. Maybe with cheap tubes its okay, but what about nice tubes? You'd want to swap to a cheaper one to use the speakers, which isn't so convenient anymore.

Don't get me wrong, you absolutely can run the Vali 2 to your speakers if you want. It is simple and convenient and saves on cable clutter. It's not the worst thing in the world to use the Vali 2 is an active pre-amp. It's just hard to recommend doing it if you can help it. I suppose you could always argue the sys isn't needed, since the sound isn't critically altered. And just like with your headphones, you can keep it off when not using the speakers either. I should mention that the Vali 2 only takes around 10 seconds to kick up. It's nothing. There's no reason to leave it on just to have your speakers ready to go or have the tube "pre-warmed" or whatever. And then, if you tube roll a little, tube wear probably won't be a problem at all. Alternating 2 or 3 should get you several years of use.

So there are reasons not to get the sys, too. I can't really tell you how you should hook up your system. It's a matter of what you need to do, how you want it done, and what compromises are okay for you.

It's rediculous and I don't know who does this, but if you don't mind giving up volume control from the sys, you can actually hook it up backwards. It actually works both ways. You just have to max the volume knob. So you would feed the M2U into the OUTPUT of the sys, plug the Vali 2 into one INPUT, and plug your speakers into the other. When run this way, it actually outputs from the output to whichever input you've got selected via the button, if that makes sense. :p This way, you can truly have your $50 toggle button.


I just wanna say I use a ridiculous amount of splitters, heh <_< I have the output from the M2U split to feed both the sys and the Vali 2. The output from the sys is ALSO split to feed two speakers plus a sub's input. Then they sys's other input is connected to the recording interface. It's just a mess of RCA cables, a lot of them way longer than they should've been. The shortest I had found back then were 3 feet! I try not to look back there.

Now, for you I'd recommend these. They're not top quality cables, but they're short, cheap, and don't sound terrible/noisy. Sufficient.
 
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