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X1900 Launch Analysis by NVIDIA

W1zzard

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#1
After ATI's launch of the X1900 Series the people at NVIDIA sat down and took a close look at where the weak points are and where NVIDIA's lineup is superior. This presentation compares X1900 performance against the 7800GTX and in the second part of the presentation tells us why SLI is superior to Crossfire.

Show full review
 
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zOaib

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#2
although i hate nvidia , with every inch of my soul and curses !!

buti have to agree with them , that the x1900xtx only dominates not by too much gap against the 7800gtx 512mb , but the above slides are all pretty biased i have seen other websites which show results differently , specially in FEAR ............. anyways i think ATi needs to get back to the drawing board and really come out with something like a 32/48 r600 card to kick the living S@#T out of Nvidia once n for all , right now they both are neck n neck to each other trying to keep up !!!

:D
 
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#3
I've had nVidia cards and Ati, and from my experience overclocking and quality what I always liked Ati for. I don't care what anyone says about ati or nvidia, they both are the only choices. From my experience Ati is my choice, but that don't mean that I will never buy nVidia
 

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#4
The reason why SLi is more effective is that Crossfire is still a young technology and it needs to worked on more. With time Crossfire will be formidable. nVidia has done a good job in tipping over ATi in graphics dominance in both single and dual GPU configurations over the last year.

The only negative I had seen on nVidia last year is the 7800GTX 512. They should of waited a bit longer so they have the time and capability to mass produce this product at their MSRP of $649 American.

It is true that the GTX 512 does outperform the X1900 series but why do we need a small performance boost for about $100 - $150 dollars American more? Its just not worth the money. ATi did well in pricing the X1900 series. Having a card that can challenge a 7800 GTX 512 without puking so much money and being more available to the public is great for the people who cant afford or can't get the GTX 512 (and I am one of them unfortunately)

Overall, I go with firingsquads comment on slide 10.
 
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#5
Only thing I can say is that this kind of PR responses by nVidia can only alienate and create exactly the opposite reaction from users who might think nVidia has to use cheap powerpoint presentations to defend themselves...
Both companies better stop playing this dirty game and start redirecting wasted resources towards giving their consumers a better experience with their respective products, nVidia could, for example assign more ppl to their drivers department (nVidia's drivers leave a lot to be desired :shadedshu only God knows how much I miss Ati's monthly drivers updates, nVidia's official drivers doesn't even support my video card :mad: ) instead of paying ppl for making all this PR crap...
 

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#6
yea...i remember seeing benchmarks from other reviewers where the 1900 series had a clear lead over the 7800...in FEAR and HL2, and Far Cry...As far as Crossfire vs. SLi...can we compare them with current tech?? most of the reviews i've seen compare the rd480 against an x32 nforce board. So, the 7800's have the clear advantage, as they have the availability of two x16 pcie lanes, and the 1900 series only has x8 for each card. Until the RD580 comes out, we can't truly compare the two, can we??

And I like how nvidia doesn't mention that the 7800gtx is still selling for $750+ just about everywhere, if it's even in stock. humor.
 
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#7
I think that 7800 GTX 512 was made to make sure that while nVidia is still working on thaire
new structure for GPUs thay have something good on the market to keep up with Ati new R580
 
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#8
Looks at the fith, sixth and seventh slide: Wahahahahahah. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh Man this is even worse than ATi's sides bashing nVidia for thier lack of SM3.0 complience. 1280x960 is showing signs of CPU bottlenecking. Look at what happens once FSAA is turned on. :) Black and White 2 just came out with a new patch that boosts ATi card performance, so all benchs with that game are now illrelevent unless they are tested with the new patch. FarCry is so CPU bound at 1600x1200 thats its not even funny.

Other slides: (still laughing) Doom 3 and Quake 4..........ya we know that nVidia still holdes the performance crown there....move along. HalfLife 2, CPU bound you moronic wackjobs.
The last 4: LOL! SLi marking goop.
 
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#10
I love competition... every time something better comes out, the other guy has to beat it, or beat them down. We all win in the end (excepting pricing these days!). I wish I had a crystal ball...

I rectently paid $149 for an X800 (12ppGTO to 16ppXL) card that one year ago cost 2-3x that for comparible horsepower. And like a lot of people who remember this scenario, I paid $179 (AR) for a Voodoo2 not too long before they announced the Voodoo3. That was the top of the game back then.
 

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#12
All I can say is that I will never pay more then $150 for a video card... and within my range ATI still rules. Nvidia's only decent card under $150 is the 6600GT and it runs to hot for my comfort.
 

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#13
lol nshitia losers, ATI rules!!!!
 

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#14
Toofast, shut up man, support your opinion before you write a fanboy comment like that.

I really do prefer Nvidia still, even if this presentation is fake (like they all are). I hate crossfire, I hate "16 pipelines" (DO NOT start on that again guys, I just prefer "the more the better"), and I hate the dual-top lines from ATI (X800 and X850, X1800 and X1900, let the X1800 and X800 owners be proud, stop releasing a new line). Sorry but ATI, after a year, still doesn't have their acts together. Nvidia does do some crappy thing I'll admit, like overpricing their top-of-the-line (6800UEE, 7800GTX 512mb), and not optimizing certain things like that "dedicated DVD/Video decoder" that never worked on the 6800's, and not optimizing the Shader Model 3.0 on the 6800 and 7800 series. But that still beats ATI's horrible problems, sorry guys but that's my opinion on that stuff.

By the way, fanboys are guys that say "ATI SUCKS" or "NVIDIA RULES" and don't support their statement. Usually that tells people you're ignorant and opinionated, a lot like those "Bush sucks" guys out there.
 
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#15
TooFast said:
lol nshitia losers, ATI rules!!!!
this is uncalled for and annoying.. if you dont wish to post something even partially useful, please save w1zzard some bandwidth ;)

btw, why didnt you go with the 30" apple? :) Its so much more beautiful than the 23 lol :toast:

but nice system. love to see mac os x on it.
 
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#16
ok now whats the big deal here. i think it is a sad attempt by nvidia to try to lean the market in their favour by giving out slides of two godly cards, or should i say four, with stats that really do not even matter! so what! Can anyone really tell the difference between 126 and 129 frames. to me the real world performance between the highend cards on the market right now is only marginal. So quit bitching especially if you have an awsome dual card setup, you lucky bastard:cry: in my oppinion though, ati gives better textures while nvidia gives better dvd quality.
 

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#17
zOaib said:
although i hate nvidia , with every inch of my soul and curses !!

buti have to agree with them , that the x1900xtx only dominates not by too much gap against the 7800gtx 512mb , but the above slides are all pretty biased i have seen other websites which show results differently , specially in FEAR ............. anyways i think ATi needs to get back to the drawing board and really come out with something like a 32/48 r600 card to kick the living S@#T out of Nvidia once n for all , right now they both are neck n neck to each other trying to keep up !!!

:D

i agree i think im going nvidia for my next update infact i am but i agree i really think we should have ran a higher number of pipes like 24/48 or 32/48 instead of just 16/48 i think the lack of pipes is really bottlenecking the gpu.
 

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#18
Solaris17 said:
i agree i think im going nvidia for my next update infact i am but i agree i really think we should have ran a higher number of pipes like 24/48 or 32/48 instead of just 16/48 i think the lack of pipes is really bottlenecking the gpu.
Thanks man, finally someone agrees that a lack of pipelines WILL lead to a bottleneck! After all that "pipelines don't matter right now" from everyone.....well we are hitting a crazy revolution in graphics where every aspect of a card can lead to bottlenecks, so why are you saying that? Unified Architecture is never going to stay unified if you don't give it some pipelines to push all that power through. The 7800GTX really didn't seem to need that many, although in benchmarks they definitely did help, but now we're going to need them soon (even the X1900 might, I mean it's not THAT big of a dominator yet).
 
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#19
I think Ati is making a smart move by have 16/48 and be on the same level of performance as 7800 gtx 512, Ati structure is definitely better that nVidias. As soon as nVidia will release new line of GPUs, Ati will add those extra pipelines plus the technology they already have, they will outperform nBoyz:nutkick:
 
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#20
You will feel sorry for yourself pitty!!!

:laugh: :banghead: If u hate Ati, that's fine...but you'll be sorry foryourself later lol!!!
Make no mistake about it! Ati always has had better in visual qaulity gaming hands down.....no question

Lets look at the real facts; first, Nvidia's 24 pipeline compared to Ati's 16 pipline does not justified! I mean all that 24 piplines firepower can't even beat R580 so therefore, Ati wins in terms of effeciency. Don't belived me? go to www.hardocp.com I truely don't understand y u hate ATI's 16 pipelines Furthermore, ATI's has a dispatch engine and can do multithreaded approx. 512 threads in flight contineous

Secondly, most games now and future games will be all heading towards more and more shader intensive. Don't belived me? Go and find out yourself
Thirdly, Nvidia can not make a dint into ATI's AVIVO! Lot of oems are using AVIVO into their upcomming plasma and LCD tv's the likes of Sony for example
R600 willl come as 32 pipelines and an awsome 64 ALU (shader firepower) and belive me R600will blow Nvidia right out of the water!!!! Why? Nvidia don't believe in ATI's philosophy in creating 3:1 ratio of ALU's to TMU's So, unless Nvidia start to swollow their pride and follow ATI's way......and is this where you will get your ass f*ked:rockout:

:nutkick: Qoute from www.hardocp.com "We’ve been saying this over and over again during 2005 and now that it is 2006 we mean it even more: don’t get caught up in the number of “pipelines” in a video card. The architecture of video cards is moving away from a distinct 1:1 ratio of the various pipelines; instead, we are moving into the world of processing units. Back in the old school days, you could say a card had a certain amount of pipelines and that would help you figure out how it might perform. Well, things are getting so diverse in the architecture now that all the different units in a 3D architecture no longer have a 1:1 ratio. Different parts of the engine now have different numbers of each part and they mean different things, and there are more parts. The X1900 XT and XTX are very good examples of how the architecture is evolving.":rockout:

AMDCam said:
Toofast, shut up man, support your opinion before you write a fanboy comment like that.

I really do prefer Nvidia still, even if this presentation is fake (like they all are). I hate crossfire, I hate "16 pipelines" (DO NOT start on that again guys, I just prefer "the more the better"), and I hate the dual-top lines from ATI (X800 and X850, X1800 and X1900, let the X1800 and X800 owners be proud, stop releasing a new line). Sorry but ATI, after a year, still doesn't have their acts together. Nvidia does do some crappy thing I'll admit, like overpricing their top-of-the-line (6800UEE, 7800GTX 512mb), and not optimizing certain things like that "dedicated DVD/Video decoder" that never worked on the 6800's, and not optimizing the Shader Model 3.0 on the 6800 and 7800 series. But that still beats ATI's horrible problems, sorry guys but that's my opinion on that stuff.

By the way, fanboys are guys that say "ATI SUCKS" or "NVIDIA RULES" and don't support their statement. Usually that tells people you're ignorant and opinionated, a lot like those "Bush sucks" guys out there.
 
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#21
Dreamchaser said:
:laugh: :banghead: If u hate Ati, that's fine...but you'll be sorry foryourself later lol!!!
Make no mistake about it! Ati always has had better in visual qaulity gaming hands down.....no question

Lets look at the real facts; first, Nvidia's 24 pipeline compared to Ati's 16 pipline does not justified! I mean all that 24 piplines firepower can't even beat R580 so therefore, Ati wins in terms of effeciency. Don't belived me? go to www.hardocp.com I truely don't understand y u hate ATI's 16 pipelines Furthermore, ATI's has a dispatch engine and can do multithreaded approx. 512 threads in flight contineous

Secondly, most games now and future games will be all heading towards more and more shader intensive. Don't belived me? Go and find out yourself
Thirdly, Nvidia can not make a dint into ATI's AVIVO! Lot of oems are using AVIVO into their upcomming plasma and LCD tv's the likes of Sony for example
R600 willl come as 32 pipelines and an awsome 64 ALU (shader firepower) and belive me R600will blow Nvidia right out of the water!!!! Why? Nvidia don't believe in ATI's philosophy in creating 3:1 ratio of ALU's to TMU's So, unless Nvidia start to swollow their pride and follow ATI's way......and is this where you will get your ass f*ked:rockout:

:nutkick: Qoute from www.hardocp.com "We’ve been saying this over and over again during 2005 and now that it is 2006 we mean it even more: don’t get caught up in the number of “pipelines” in a video card. The architecture of video cards is moving away from a distinct 1:1 ratio of the various pipelines; instead, we are moving into the world of processing units. Back in the old school days, you could say a card had a certain amount of pipelines and that would help you figure out how it might perform. Well, things are getting so diverse in the architecture now that all the different units in a 3D architecture no longer have a 1:1 ratio. Different parts of the engine now have different numbers of each part and they mean different things, and there are more parts. The X1900 XT and XTX are very good examples of how the architecture is evolving.":rockout:
Yeah!!! :rockout: :roll: :rockout: :laugh:
 
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#22
Dreamchaser said:
:laugh: :banghead: If u hate Ati, that's fine...but you'll be sorry foryourself later lol!!!
Make no mistake about it! Ati always has had better in visual qaulity gaming hands down.....no question

Lets look at the real facts; first, Nvidia's 24 pipeline compared to Ati's 16 pipline does not justified! I mean all that 24 piplines firepower can't even beat R580 so therefore, Ati wins in terms of effeciency. Don't belived me? go to www.hardocp.com I truely don't understand y u hate ATI's 16 pipelines Furthermore, ATI's has a dispatch engine and can do multithreaded approx. 512 threads in flight contineous

Secondly, most games now and future games will be all heading towards more and more shader intensive. Don't belived me? Go and find out yourself
Thirdly, Nvidia can not make a dint into ATI's AVIVO! Lot of oems are using AVIVO into their upcomming plasma and LCD tv's the likes of Sony for example
R600 willl come as 32 pipelines and an awsome 64 ALU (shader firepower) and belive me R600will blow Nvidia right out of the water!!!! Why? Nvidia don't believe in ATI's philosophy in creating 3:1 ratio of ALU's to TMU's So, unless Nvidia start to swollow their pride and follow ATI's way......and is this where you will get your ass f*ked:rockout:

:nutkick: Qoute from www.hardocp.com "We’ve been saying this over and over again during 2005 and now that it is 2006 we mean it even more: don’t get caught up in the number of “pipelines” in a video card. The architecture of video cards is moving away from a distinct 1:1 ratio of the various pipelines; instead, we are moving into the world of processing units. Back in the old school days, you could say a card had a certain amount of pipelines and that would help you figure out how it might perform. Well, things are getting so diverse in the architecture now that all the different units in a 3D architecture no longer have a 1:1 ratio. Different parts of the engine now have different numbers of each part and they mean different things, and there are more parts. The X1900 XT and XTX are very good examples of how the architecture is evolving.":rockout:

my hero ! :D :rockout:
 

KennyT772

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#23
very very true. i mean look at todays games say fear for example: that game uses many filters lighting affects and shadows. what drives all three of those? shader units. will a card with 32 pipelines and 32 shaders beat a card with 16 piplines and 64 shaders? well maby in say 1.6 or farcry but todays games are all filter and lighting based. after all the point of a good video card is to make the more realistic anamation thats possible by the tech we have. if you look outside what do you see? scattered light from the sun reflected off hundreds of thousands of surfaces passing threw about 1 million different airborn molecules. to me that sounds like lighting shadows and filters...
 

cayers71

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#24
Anyone consider the drivers used?

I have not read through every response in this thread, so firgive me if this post is redundant...

I would like to see the same evaulation performed with the recently released Cat 6.2 drivers...a driver optimized for the R580, instead of the hacked 6.1 driver used for the test. On my personal system the 6.2 driver accounted for a 300 point improvement on 3DMark 06, over the driver that was packaged with the card....I didn't run a hacked 6.1, but the margin of difference is significant.

Potentially the results could be very different...
 

ShinyG

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#25
Just wanted to share my two cents in this matter as I belive nVidia is exagerating...

First of all: the 7800 GTX 512M is almost a "paper" card... Have you even seen one in stores!?! I've searched most of the computer stores in Bucharest (Romania) and haven't seen ONE (1)... On the other hand I've already seen the Connect 3d and GeCube versions of the X1900 XTX in a couple of stores today as I was searching for a new PSU... (I should mention that most romanian hardware enthusiasts are nVidia fan-boys which drool at the very image of a 7800 and most stores are also ran by people like that...)

As for performance, I've just read the romanian edition of Chip Computer Magazine which had a X1900 XTX review and a comparison against the 7800 GTX and some so called "TOP" models (factory overclocked GTX). It absolutely thrashed everything...

If nVidia thinks that the whole gaming industry revolves on some crappy in-house tests performed on Guild Wars (yeah, real "hardware muncher" engine there...) and Quake 4 ("nVidia, the way it's meant to be played" logo ring any bel!?!) then they really have a problem. Let's not forget that Intel is getting they ass whooped in the processor world because they refused to adopt new tech and belived the old words: "more GHz is more power"! ATi is trying to get ahead of nVidia again by onest means: inovation, availability and a better "All in one" package. They pulled this extremly well coordonated and suprising launch which took the whole industry by surprise. I give them an A+ for this!

As some sort of conclusion: I don't need nVidia to tell me what ATi is doing wrong, I need nVidia to figure out what THEY did wrong and get back in the game... Same goes for ATi as soon will probably see a slide just like this from them!
I wonder if these slides are the "real-deal" or are they just "fan-boy" creations...