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X400 vs X500 AM4

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I don't normally get into the speculation station but I am working on piecing together my AM4 build and have been thinking about picking up an x470 board and a 2600X now while I let the dust settle with everything else. The only hold up I have is what will x570 bring to the table that x470 doesn't have. I thought pcie4 would be the primary feature but it appears that pcei4 will be available all the way back to x300 boards and will be up to manufacturers to implement. I would expect most highend x470 boards (Asrock Taichi Ultimate, etc) will get that feature. The only other feature I would expect is enhanced power delivery for the bigger chips but I would imagine the higher end boards will cope just fine.

So, what is left?
 
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IMHO: Current Ryzen CPU's are based on only one "chiplet". The leaks indicate that AMD is going above the 8 core count with the 3xxx Ryzen's and would therefore require more than one "chiplet", hence the need to move on to an EPYC based chipset. I'm thinking that X5xx will be AM4+ and will be required for more than 8 core Ryzens.

If you can wait, I think this is a good time to do so.
 
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Probably some software changes to XFR2, Store MI and Sense MI that is what happened going from X370 to X470. The X470 MBs have already been future proofed for bigger chips as most of them have 2 4 pins or 6 pin for future power requirements.
 
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If you are looking to upgrade to a 12+ core CPU there aren't that many X470 boards I would recommend. They aren't particularly well priced either.
 
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I don't normally get into the speculation station but I am working on piecing together my AM4 build and have been thinking about picking up an x470 board and a 2600X now while I let the dust settle with everything else. The only hold up I have is what will x570 bring to the table that x470 doesn't have. I thought pcie4 would be the primary feature but it appears that pcei4 will be available all the way back to x300 boards and will be up to manufacturers to implement. I would expect most highend x470 boards (Asrock Taichi Ultimate, etc) will get that feature. The only other feature I would expect is enhanced power delivery for the bigger chips but I would imagine the higher end boards will cope just fine.

So, what is left?
Only some exisitng boards will be able to support 4.0.. considering 3.0 x16 isn't a bottleneck, I wouldn't worry about it... that said, if you need the lanes due to m.2 drives etc... then maybe wait. You can always upgrade the board later too.

future proofed for bigger chips as most of them have 2 4 pins or 6 pin for future power requirements
an 8-pin is normal on most boards. More robust boards have 8-pin and an additional 4 or 8-pin. 6 pin are typically pcie and used to supplement video card power to the board when using multiple gpus.
 
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an 8-pin is normal on most boards. More robust boards have 8-pin and an additional 4 or 8-pin. 6 pin are typically pcie and used to supplement video card power to the board when using multiple gpus.
Most boards with more than one 8pin CPU power connector do so because it looks cooler and makes the boards seem more powerful, in the same way manufacturers use lots of weaker inductors rather than fewer, higher rated ones. Because people think; more inductors; more phases lol.

A single 8pin is fine even for current 16 core TR. I'd only think having an additional 4 or 8 pin might be needed on boards supporting 32+ cores honestly.

Zen2 is 7nm, so perf/watt is going to be higher. I don't expect 12 core Zen2 to consume a lot more power oc to oc than 2700X.

I think even my b450 pro4 will accept the 12-16 core models, but I could be wrong. But I guess time will tell.

@op, Ryzen 3000 is still 5~ months out. Weigh up whether you wanna wait, but X470 and 2600X is still a solid option. I recommend the MSI X470 Gaming Pro Carbon. It is a good price and features a high quality 5phase design for vcore alone. Buildzoid actually praised the power delivery a lot, I'm sure, if the 12 and 16 core zen2's work in x470, it will have no trouble powering them .

Pcie 4.0 might be useful for allowing x570 boards to support more than one Native pcie full speed nvme slot. This is something I wanted on x470. For example you may have dual pcie gen 4 M2, with 2 lanes each. These would provide same BW as current gen3 4* slots.

Edit fixed many typos. Silly phone autocorrect and my fat fingers lol
 
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Most boards with more than one 8pin CPU power connector do so because it looks cooler and makes the boards seem more powerful,
Sure. Optional in most cases.

In spec, it can supply 235W continuous... with heavy overclocking, even on ambient, many can surpass that.
 
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I don't normally get into the speculation station but I am working on piecing together my AM4 build and have been thinking about picking up an x470 board and a 2600X now while I let the dust settle with everything else. The only hold up I have is what will x570 bring to the table that x470 doesn't have. I thought pcie4 would be the primary feature but it appears that pcei4 will be available all the way back to x300 boards and will be up to manufacturers to implement. I would expect most highend x470 boards (Asrock Taichi Ultimate, etc) will get that feature. The only other feature I would expect is enhanced power delivery for the bigger chips but I would imagine the higher end boards will cope just fine.

So, what is left?
Agreed in all that you wrote. I would get a good OC X470 board and be ready for any upcoming Zen2 desktop chip.
 
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I'd have to take a pass on any of the MSI boards tbh... Even though the pro carbon is adequate for the current chips, 7nm TSMC is a high performance node so there's quite a big likelyhood that it will react more like intel 14nm does today... (lots of scaling, lots of clocks, lots of power) A 200w OC might be fine on the pro carbon, but when the chips start pushing past that it will struggle a lot.

Only boards I would say are really "future proofed" VRM wise are the Aorus Gaming 7, C7H, and X470-F Strix. All of those are of course way up the price ladder...

Also lol @ whoever brought up power connectors in the thread... You could burn any AM4 or LGA1151 chip with an 8 pin EPS, probably even 2 chips at the same time...
 
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Sure. Optional in most cases.

In spec, it can supply 235W continuous... with heavy overclocking, even on ambient, many can surpass that.
8+4 is sufficient for extreme overclocking motherboards and 8+8 for boards aimed at LN2, to remain within spec.

Here is a great video on the Dual 8+8 and also explains the VRM on the Pro Carbon very well. VRM bit here

I'd have to take a pass on any of the MSI boards tbh... Even though the pro carbon is adequate for the current chips, 7nm TSMC is a high performance node so there's quite a big likelyhood that it will react more like intel 14nm does today... (lots of scaling, lots of clocks, lots of power) A 200w OC might be fine on the pro carbon, but when the chips start pushing past that it will struggle a lot.

Only boards I would say are really "future proofed" VRM wise are the Aorus Gaming 7, C7H, and X470-F Strix. All of those are of course way up the price ladder...

Also lol @ whoever brought up power connectors in the thread... You could burn any AM4 or LGA1151 chip with an 8 pin EPS, probably even 2 chips at the same time...
Check the video above, I'm fairly certain the Pro Carbon would have no trouble wiht 300W+ CPU power draw if the VRM is cooled by decent airflow. This is one of the best 'mid-range/semi-budget' motherboards with regards to power delivery. The board is £160 here can't really go wrong. It'll handle 16 core Zen2 with a decent OC easily I think.
.
 
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and a minute ago it was just because it looks cooler/marketing. :)
Yes, and it still is; for 95% of use-cases. If you're pulling over 235W (buildzoid quotes 300W as safe on 1 8pin) on the CPU alone, then sure go for the highest end boards with dual 8+8, but for the mid /upper range boards i'm talking about and recommending; they are useless and just for marketing.
 
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I've pulled 700W at the wall for 18c/36t CPU, note. ;)
We're talking about a maximum of 16 cores here, and a vastly more efficient architecture and process. Please stop nit-picking... a single 8-pin is fine. if OP wanted to overclock more than 16 cores to 4.8GHz+ and draw 700W~ of power they should be looking at X399, not X470/X570

Just saying it isnt marketing. There are enough use cases to warrant the need.
You're right, but for most AM4 boards; a single 8 pin is fine, 8+8 is pure marketing on boards like the Pro Carbon. Anyway I think we've discussed this topic enough. I've said my piece :)
 
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Depends on uses.. lets move along now. :)

Also, extreme overclocking = subambient/ln2/dry ice cooling. For most, It's the same thing. Overclocking without the extreme is ambient cooling. Nothing extreme about that. ;)

Edit: also, I did that at 4.3 ghz.... not 4.8 ghz. ;)
 
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Lets wait and see, atm we have no idea how 3rd gen ryzen will behave when the volts are cranked.

I'm hoping my C6H will be up to the job, VRM only gets lukewarm when pushing 200W so hopefully it'll have enough headroom to push a 12c chip hard.
 
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I don't normally get into the speculation station but I am working on piecing together my AM4 build and have been thinking about picking up an x470 board and a 2600X now while I let the dust settle with everything else. The only hold up I have is what will x570 bring to the table that x470 doesn't have. I thought pcie4 would be the primary feature but it appears that pcei4 will be available all the way back to x300 boards and will be up to manufacturers to implement. I would expect most highend x470 boards (Asrock Taichi Ultimate, etc) will get that feature. The only other feature I would expect is enhanced power delivery for the bigger chips but I would imagine the higher end boards will cope just fine.

So, what is left?
So the story about backwards support for PCIe 4.0 is this. Some motherboards may support it, but it comes down to how well the motherboard makers made the signal layers between the first x16 slot and the CPU, as only this slot would get PCIe 4.0 support. On top of this, the board makers would have to qualify the boards for PCIe 4.0, which they might not do. Lastly, a new UEFI would be needed to make it all work, which the board makers may or may not do. I would expect to see at least a few high-end X470 boards get PCIe 4.0 support, but it won't be all boards, that's for sure. The X370 boards are not likely to get it.

X570 will be quite different from the X470, it's afaik not made by ASMedia. There will be support for more NVMe drives, more USB 3.1, but less SATA. It will also be more expensive, as the boards are going to need re-drivers/signal conditioners to work properly with PCIe 4.0 and these are apparently not cheap. Not all X570 boards will get full PCIe 4.0 support as well, due to this additional cost, so make sure you know what you're buying once it becomes available.

Personally I would wait for the new gear, as my understanding is that it will be significantly improved all around.

Ryzen 3000 is still 5~ months out.

Pcie 4.0 might be useful for allowing x570 boards to support more than one Native pcie full speed nvme slot. This is something I wanted on x470. For example you may have dual pcie gen 4 M2, with 2 lanes each. These would provide same BW as current gen3 4* slots.
I don't know where you get your info, but that's plain wrong.

Without bifurcation or some kind of PCIe 4.0 to 3.0 bridge chip, that wouldn't be possible, unless you're talking about boards with 2x PCIe 4.0 two lane slots, instead of four lanes slots. This is unlikely, as current PCIe 3.0 SSDs would run at half speed then. There are also exactly zero commercial availability of PCIe 4.0 SSDs and there have only been one or two new controller demos so far, so don't expect any PCIe 4.0 SSDs until late this year or early 2020. Those drives will be high-end drives as well, not two lane drives.
 
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I don't know where you get your info, but that's plain wrong.

Without bifurcation or some kind of PCIe 4.0 to 3.0 bridge chip, that wouldn't be possible, unless you're talking about boards with 2x PCIe 4.0 two lane slots, instead of four lanes slots. This is unlikely, as current PCIe 3.0 SSDs would run at half speed then. There are also exactly zero commercial availability of PCIe 4.0 SSDs and there have only been one or two new controller demos so far, so don't expect any PCIe 4.0 SSDs until late this year or early 2020. Those drives will be high-end drives as well, not two lane drives.
Sorry this is where my understanding of pcie lanes falls off then...
 
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Only some exisitng boards will be able to support 4.0.. considering 3.0 x16 isn't a bottleneck, I wouldn't worry about it... that said, if you need the lanes due to m.2 drives etc... then maybe wait. You can always upgrade the board later too.

an 8-pin is normal on most boards. More robust boards have 8-pin and an additional 4 or 8-pin. 6 pin are typically pcie and used to supplement video card power to the board when using multiple gpus.
Agreed that 3.0 isn't a bottleneck but I usually keep things around for 4 - 5 years. So, to throw out my favorite term, it would just be a little 'future proofing'. lol, I hate that term.

So the story about backwards support for PCIe 4.0 is this. Some motherboards may support it, but it comes down to how well the motherboard makers made the signal layers between the first x16 slot and the CPU, as only this slot would get PCIe 4.0 support. On top of this, the board makers would have to qualify the boards for PCIe 4.0, which they might not do. Lastly, a new UEFI would be needed to make it all work, which the board makers may or may not do. I would expect to see at least a few high-end X470 boards get PCIe 4.0 support, but it won't be all boards, that's for sure. The X370 boards are not likely to get it.

X570 will be quite different from the X470, it's afaik not made by ASMedia. There will be support for more NVMe drives, more USB 3.1, but less SATA. It will also be more expensive, as the boards are going to need re-drivers/signal conditioners to work properly with PCIe 4.0 and these are apparently not cheap. Not all X570 boards will get full PCIe 4.0 support as well, due to this additional cost, so make sure you know what you're buying once it becomes available.
I believe it will still be ASMedia but perhaps I was mistaking it for the USB controller.

Lets wait and see, atm we have no idea how 3rd gen ryzen will behave when the volts are cranked.
Exactly why I try not to speculate. However, I haven't really seen much info about the X500 boards but I know plenty of people around the forum poke their heads around more than I do.
 
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I expect all Ryzen 3000 CPUs to work on current chipsets.
 
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Offtopic: Given the improvement from X370 to X470, not necessarily the chips but rather the how the boards improved I'd say wait for X570.

Yeah it's great that you can upgrade from a 1600/2600 to a 3600, but this won't give you Zen 2 any sooner.
No matter how good the 2600X is, chances are that its successor is much better and the market will be flooded with older AM4 chips, you'll lose money pretty fast.
Watch out for the itch! :toast:
 

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X570 is supposed inhouse design by amd and not asmedia like x300-400 were
 
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