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X850XT - ATITool isn't helping at all!!

Discussion in 'ATITool' started by VyxerioN, Feb 17, 2006.

  1. VyxerioN New Member

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    First of all I have a PowerColor ATI Radeon X850XT PCI-E videocard.

    Now, I've downloaded this "seemingly" wonderful tool but have found absolutely no or VERY little results.

    My defaults are set @ 520/540 right now, and I'm deathly afraid to touch ANYTHING on this program just because of the undesirable effects I've received.

    I made sure to read a tutorial and an outline of the software and how it operates; fairly straightforward. Max core and max mem to find your maxs - once they're reached the software pulls them down a little.

    This is what's happening for me:

    @ 540+ Max Core - Rendering window freezes disappears and then comes back with the notification that VPU Recovery had to reset the settings because there was no response from driver commands.

    @ 605 (I think somewhere around there) Max Mem - As it got to I believe around 610 I started seeing bright yellow patches in the cube, and they became bigger as temp continued to rise, then...disaster...the whole screen went into technicolor vertical stripes.


    As you can tell I'm quite discouraged to use this program until I receive some serious assistance.

    Please feel free to email me about anything that may help me or this program, as I'm very concerned and enthusiastic to unlock the potential of my videocard WITHOUT damaging it

    Thank you very much :)
     
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  2. zekrahminator

    zekrahminator McLovin

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    540/600are very respectable clocks on an X850XT with stock cooler...if you want to bring them up higher, I suggest you get an ATI silencer 5 (its not as scary as it look). If you want to find your max stable overclock WITHOUT changing your cooler, do the following...
    A)Open up one of your favorite games (or just stick with the rendering window, I'd reccomend the game because the game is your actual performance)
    B) Slowly inch up the clock until you either see random dots across the screen or ATItool reports temps that alarm you (anything over 50*C you should be wary, 60*C is just plain hot, about 70*C you can really see the overheat)
    C) Do the same for memory clock, but this time wait for lights to not render correctly, or for things to not be rendered correctly at all (a circle with little shards of glass sticking out of it...)
    D) Game for a while, clock down as needed, and then you will have your max stable settings!
    E) A word of warning...the higher your temps, the shorter your card will last. I took several months off my card's life by overclocking with tiny stock cooler lol
     
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  3. OpTicaL New Member

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    I have the exact same card as you but in AGP form. You can safely overclock your card to PE speeds without damaging your card, but keep in mind that you must set your variable fan speed manually or else your card will keep rising in temperature and you get the techincolor screen again, because for some reason the default speed is always at 15%. Mine actually went up to 95C before shutting off. All I can say is anything over 60C you should set your fan speed to 100% because the noise difference @ 70% and 80% is the same thing.

    If you can't stand the noise, get a aftermarket cooler. I recommend the zalman vf700-cu (i have one installed) if you have an extra $28 to throw around. There are two modes on the zalman, silent and normal. I left mine on "normal" mode and I can't hear any noise coming from the fan, even with my side door open. This Zalman cooler is absolutely amazing.
     
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  4. VyxerioN New Member

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    Thanks a lot for all your help, guys - Just so you know, you are what prevents me from fragging a perfectly good X850XT :p

    Optical you said your X850XT runs the fan default @ 15%? Mine is a constant 5% :\
    Yeah I got a little into the variable fan speed but wondered about any harmful effects. I tried setting it on "Keep the card at 70C" but it was pretty loud and after 65C I didn't hear that the the fan speed was decreasing after achieving a cooler state. There's also that PWM feature that's checked and I didn't want to touch (I know what PWM is and I'm weary to disabling an automated fan control).

    I have looked into getting an aftermarket cooler a while ago because my X850XT is by far the loudest of the 6 fans running in my PC. I initially was looking at an ATI Silencer 5 until Optical mentioned the Zalman vf700-cu and I wonder about the performance difference - mainly the difference in heat flow control and disipation. The Zalman doesn't draw the heat from the coils into a fan and out the back as the ATI Silencer 5; the Zalman is very open in design, and I'm just a bit questionable to which might work better.

    Again thanks for the sound advice. Optical if you have a suggested fan control variable table to give me a little guideline that'd be awesome. This is what I'll start with:

    0 - 30 = 15%
    above 30 = 25%
    above 40 = 40%
    above 50 = 60%
    above 60 = 100%

    That look fine?
     
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  5. trog100

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    your fan settings look okay.. perhaps alittle too much speed at 40 and 60 with the noisy stock fan.. the artic vga cooler will drop your temps by about 8 to 10 degrees C.. it will also run near silent with the correct fan speed settings.. here is how i have mine set with the artic cooler..

    [​IMG]

    u wont get your core clocks much higher your memory clock will benifit the most cos the artic cooler does a good job with that.. atitool is just a tool for adjusting your cards speeds and other things.. it wont make it go any faster than it will go.. it just enables u to take it there.. if u get artifacts or lock-ups that your cards limits.. its not the fault of atitool..

    if u are after quiteness while browsing and such use the atitool furry dice thing.. when its not running your fans can go slow.. when it starts running your fans should speed up.. maximum coolness at idle isnt important.. your card has two temperature ranges.. cool in 2D mode u need slow fans.. hot in 3D mode u need faster fans.. mine goes from low 30s in 2D mode to low 50s in 3D mode.. there is no in betweens as such..

    the furry dice thing puts the card in 3D mode and makes it work.. its only in 3D mode u need to worry about heat.. the priority in 2D mode is quietness..

    i also have no idea why so many people say use the zalman cooler.. the artic one does a better job.. it exhausts the heat out of the case the zalman dosnt.. it also lets atitool control its fan speeds the zalman one dosnt.. the zalman has nothing going for it except its name..

    trog
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2006
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  6. OpTicaL New Member

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    You need PWM checked or else your card will make this funny squeaking sound, it's pretty much a design issue of the fan control circuit.

    As for the fan variables, once you load anything that requires the use of your video card it will heat up past 55C really fast so any variable you set under 55C is pointless. Just make sure you don't set a variable where the fan has to spin up and spin down consistantly.

    First of all found out your maximum temperature by leaving the fan @ 100%. Running the 'scan for artifacts' heats up the gpu pretty fast. My max temp was 72~76C. Once you find out your max temp. set your fan to spin @ 100% once it passes 3-5C below your max temp. For example my max temp was 72C so I would set the fan to spin at 100% once it passes 68C. If I set my fan to spin at 100% once it hits 72C any minor drop in temperature will have your fan constantly spinning up and down, which is very annoying. Btw, fan speed at 75% and 100% makes no difference in temp during my experiment.

    Although alot of people, in theory, thinks that using the ATi silencer 5 will push the hot air out the rear vents, in reality hot air is trapped in that tiny box waiting for the fan to push it out. That in turn is not as efficient as the zalman where air can dissipate freely and much faster than the silencer but that's just my opinion of efficiency. There are also people that argue that using zalman's open design will increase case temperature but from my 24 hour experiment after I got the zalman, my case temp was only 30C 24hrs later compared to 28C when my cpu and vga is idle. Any amount of intake air from the front of the case to push air to the back of the case is fine.

    Just to give you an idea, my x850xt is oc'ed to PE speeds when I had my stock cooler my idle temps where 45/41 and max load was 75/53. After the zalman my idle temps are 32/30 and max load is 58~61/41. These temps where taken after a 24hr test. Zalman has 2 speed modes, silent 1350rpm and normal 2650rpm @ 18.5dB and 28.5dB respectively. I left mine on normal mode (side panel removed) and found the fan to be inaudible unless I put my ear right next to the card and even then I can only hear a tiny 'whoosh' sound that any type of spinning fan makes and with the side panel on it is completely dead silent.

    Zalman is not 'brand' like how trog100 puts it, they are proven to be silent and efficient or they wouldn't be popular in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2006
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  7. trog100

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    i think u are wrong about the trapped in the box thing optical.. the plastic box warms up as it would with hot air going thru it and some of this heat will pass into the case.. but the vast majority of the heat generated by the grfx card gets pumped out of the case rear and dosnt heat the case..

    the zalman just puts the total amount of heat generated by the grfx card into the case and in affect acts as case heater.. if the grfx card generates 100 watts of heat that heat gets used as case heater with the zalman.. simple as that..

    the artic pumps most if not all of that 100 watts out of the case and helps heat the room the PC is in but not the case.. if the zalman feels nice and cool to the touch its only cos its doing a grand job of shifting that card heat into the case..

    some card heat gets onto the case no matter what.. just a lot less with the artic than with the zalman..

    the thing that makes me dislike the zalman thow is the inability to software control its fan speed .. i think its a major downside with the zalman.. they should alter the fans plug to connect up to the cards fan socket and be done with it.. or at least include the option it wouldnt cost much..

    being able to run slow fan speeds while in 2D mode and only run fast fan speeds when needed is a must in my books.. in this respect the zalman is a downgrade to the stock cooler.. my zalman 9500 cpu cooler came with the same manual speed adjuster thing.. i just didnt use it and connected straight up the motherboards socket.. with the vga cooler u cant do this without some wireing plug changeing mod..

    trog
     
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  8. zekrahminator

    zekrahminator McLovin

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    I have to agree with trog on this one...zalman LOOKS like an awesome cooler but it cant compete with the fan blowing over the copper heatsinks and OUT of the case. I have experience with the VGA silencer, the air isnt as trapped as you think lol. heat dissipates evenly across fins, and the air blows over the fins (unlike the stock ATI cooler, which sucks air over the copper, a design I find to be better for home heaters rather then VGA coolers) the zalman takes heat off the card and dissipates it...back into the case. need I say more? lol
     
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  9. VyxerioN New Member

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    Improvements

    Alright I listened to your advice and it helped tons!

    I took everything into consideration and here are the results. Optical, I did the test for max temp by your method and found my max temp range was 58-61C; it was about 80% of the time at 60C the whole time for 40 minutes.

    Fan Settings
    abv 0C - 14%
    abv 42 - 50%
    abv 55 - 100%

    @ 629 Memory 1st artifact seen, abort initiated.
    @ 559 Core process interupted: Vpu Recovery has taken action due to lack of response to driver commands

    Summary
    I have my defaults in effect (520/540), but I did save a profile with max core/temp being 547.36/611.18. I'm still not sure if these are acceptable so I came here first to post these results.

    For added reference I managed to run a 3dMark on default and after OC the X850XT test and here are my scores
    @ Default VGA (520/540)
    SM2.0 score: 1049
    CPU score: 786
    Total Score: 1966

    @ Overclocked VGA (547.36/611.18)
    SM2.0 score: 1142
    CPU score: 809
    Total Score: 2123:D
     
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  10. OpTicaL New Member

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    I don't see how hot air can get trapped inside the case. Does your case NOT have intake and exhaust fans? If you don't then I would understand why you say hot air is trapped inside the case, but as long as you have exhaust hot air is always pulled out of the case. That is also why it is important a computer case should have efficient air circulation....because no one wants hot air constricted inside the case.

    If it is so important to have hot air from heat generating parts of the computer to be "tunnelled" out the rear of the case, then why are 95% of all CPU coolers open design? It's because the designers of CPU coolers decided it was unecessary.

    Whats the point of controlling fan speed when the zalman fan runs dead silent in the first place? You only want control because the fan is noisy at high speeds but the zalman is silent, dead silent. You only need fan control to control noise at high speeds because the silecner is noisy @ 100% but the Zalman runs at 100%(2650rpm) and it's silent so whats the point of having fan control?

    Downgrade? How can you call (max load)75C/53C -> 58C/41C a downgrade?

    So your saying the Zalman isn't blowing on a massive mushroom finned copper heatsink? It's common sense that a open design dissipates heat faster than a constricted design.

    Like I said previously, if it is so important to have hot air from heat generating parts of the computer to be "tunnelled" out the rear of the case, then why are 95% of all CPU coolers open design? Why don't designers make a tunnel design instead of having the heat dissipated inside the case? It's because the designers of CPU coolers decided it was unecessary and because every computer case has exhaust. If YOUR computer case doesn't have exhaust then tunnelling would be necessary. R u saying you don't have exhaust fans on your computer?

    VyxerioN, if your planning to get a ATi Silencer I would think twice after reading this article: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=4012&highlight=silencer

    So much for adjustable fan speeds if the manufacturer themselves tell you to connect it directly to the PSU. I can see Rev. 3 coming out soon! LOL

    So far, I don't see any complains about the Zalman cooler. Zalman just a name? Does Zalman need a Rev. 2? No, Zalman = Reliability, Efficiency and above all Peace and Quiet!
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2006
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  11. VyxerioN New Member

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    Zalman or Arctic?...

    I can't deny the fact you make Optical: heat does dissipate better over an open design, and as for the silence factor, I'm going to take your word on the Zalman being quieter since I haven't been able to test both.

    But the big difference is Arctic doesn't heat the case and directs it out the back, at the same time the heat flow is restricted to the cooler's casing and the rate the fan can push that heat mass.

    The Zalman doesn't direct the heat flow in any direction at all, but in theory, works less as it doesn't have a constricted heat mass to "push". Instead, it rather pulls and spreads it. This could also be why it could be quieter.

    This is what I think: In all honesty I wanted the Arctic to begin with, then thought about Zalman, then back to the Arctic - gee it looks great and hey warm air comes straight out of my computer...cool. But I also have a Thermaltake Kandalf case loaded with 4 fans, so heat dispersal through my case isn't too much of an issue (I've got heatsinks on my RAM and Intel coolers on my Xeons). I start to look at the big picture and I'm looking towards the Zalman cooler. I'm not going to bash the Arctic because both coolers have their advantages and disadvantages based on the user's case design; had my case have been a more closed design with less fans then yeah I'd definitely go for the Arctic, but in this case the Zalman's may do just fine...however the Zalman "looks" thick and I hope it gives reasonable clearance (I wouldn't want any of those fins close to a future wireless PCI card I'm soon to install - my X850XT goes in upside-down).

    ...and that thread I read about the Arctic, well I can't explain what's going wrong but something is and I get discouraged by things that don't work, lol. Now show me a thread that says the Zalman coolers are failing...I couldn't find any. Anyways, I was very surprised to read this thread.

    If anybody wishes to comment on the relevance of the use of the Arctic or Zalman and an open or closed case design please feel free.

    Oh and my results, are these acceptable?
     
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  12. trog100

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    "So far, I don't see any complains about the Zalman cooler. Zalman just a name? Does Zalman need a Rev. 2? No, Zalman = Reliability, Efficiency and above all Peace and Quiet!"

    i have just made two u just waffled em away with what amounts to nonsense.. and yes it does need a rev 2 to put right the deficiencies it suffers from at the moment..

    firstly the new intel specifcations do require cpu cooling air to be both drawn in and exhausted from outside the case.. it is based on a tunnel system.. the air is drawn in from the front passes thru the tunnel cools the cpu on the way and is exhausted straight out the back of the case.. the idea again is simple the air coming in is as cool as it can be and it dosnt heat the case any more than it has to whilst cooling the cpu..

    so some people do think its important..

    as for software controled fans.. my cpu speeds are software controled.. my grfx card speeds are software controled.. my cpu cooler fan is software controled.. my vga cooler fan is software controled.. my case fans are software controled

    the aim is pretty simple keep things as quite as possible whilst maintaining adequate cooling.. note the use of the term adequate as opposed to maximum..

    nothing needs to run maximum speed all the time whilst browsing or doing none gaming activities.. the slower the hardware runs the less heat it generates and the slower the fans have to run to cool it .. this keeps down noise it also keeps down the amount of dust being drawn into the case.. i would magine it also lengthens the life of all the components and also saves energy..

    as for case fans taking away case heat.. of course they do.. but the less things heating up the case the less heat the case fans have to remove.. which mean less case fans or slower less noisy case fans.. the zalman pumps all the card heat into the case fact of life no ifs or buts.. which means u need an equivalent extra case fan to shift it out.. far better to do it the artic way.. let the vga cooler fan shift it out in the first place..

    the case has two main heaters.. the gpu and cpu.. the artic gets rid of one of them.. there is no easy to get rid of the other at the moment..

    let me put it this way.. if a powerfull grfx card generates 100 watts of heat that is like a powefull light bulb.. imagine sticking one of those in your case.. the artic vga cooler dosnt it shifts the heat out the back.. the zalman makes no attempt at doing this it just pumps that 100 watts into the case..

    how many extra case fans does it need to get rid of that 100 watts of heat ???..

    in fact if u could do the same with cpu cooler that would be another 100 watts of case heater done away with.. u probably could run without any case fans except the power supply one running slowy.. a decent design power supply and u could get rid of that fan..

    how many extra case fans does it need to get rid of that 200 watts of heat with the zalman and the cpu cooler acting as case heaters.. he he he

    the artic cooler running software controled is near silent in operation by the way to suggest its noisy is just not true..

    so far in my book its artic 2 zalman 0.. he he he.. i aint anti zalman by the way i do use a zalman 9500 aero flower cpu cooler.. i think the zalman 9500 is a better cpu cooler than the artic freezer pro.. mind u the artic cpu cooler dosnt cost as much.. praps thats another plus for em.. they cost far less than zalmans..

    trog

    ps.. i aint trying to convince anyone to buy an artic by the way just argueing the toss about which is best.. i like a good arguement.. both of em will cool the grfx card adequately..
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2006
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  13. OpTicaL New Member

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    With all that discussion about cooler A vs cooler B I forgot to reply about your results. A max temp of 58-61 is very good with the stock cooler. My max core and memory speeds is almost identical to yours. Here's a screenshot of my 3DMark06 scores with stock speeds: http://home.att.net/~v_spec/3DMark06_Score.JPG

    Here is my score with OC'ed speeds: http://home.att.net/~v_spec/3DMark06_Score_OCed.JPG

    As you can see, my CPU sucks (P4 2.6c oc'ed to 2934) therefore limits the full potential of my video card, however I think using 3DMark06 to benchmark performance is not as accurate as using 3DMark05 because '06 was designed for dual-core, dual-video, HDR and SM 3.0 benchmarking. I don't know how many people out there that meets that criteria but I know I don't.

    Here's a pic of my x850 xt oc'ed to PE speeds at idle temp: http://home.att.net/~v_spec/GPU_Idle.JPG

    Here's a pic of my x850 xt with load: http://home.att.net/~v_spec/GPU_Load.JPG

    If you want to know everything about overclocking (from CPU to GPU, mods, etc, etc...) visit: http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com
    They are one of the most respected and popular overclocking forums online with over 42,000 members. Anything and everything about overclocking can be found on that site.
     
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  14. zekrahminator

    zekrahminator McLovin

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    lol from what I can tell, it looks like its turned into one big Arctic vs. Zalman discussion...I really think its a personal opinion. from what I can tell, if you want to take a small risk with the fan speed changes offered in ATItool/some OCing software, go with Arctic. if you just want something silent that works, go with Zalman. but in my opinion, the Arctic will do a better job, and no, I dont have anything to back it up aside from past experience :D
     
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  15. OpTicaL New Member

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    Amen, I have more trust in companies that get it right the FIRST TIME. A little FYI, Gigabyte, a third party video card maker has decided to use Zalman VGA coolers on all their new cards since mid december '05 and in the future. I wonder why.....

    Get real, you talk about 'specifications' then why are 95% of all makers of CPU coolers still using a open design? Why hasn't any of the popular brands of CPU coolers taken the first step to make a tunnel system? Those makers aren't dumb, they have their reasons which are pretty much the same as mine. You don't need tunneling if your case has sufficient circulation.

    Why do I need to keep the noise down when my Zalman fan doesn't make any noise in the first place? Dust? anything with a moving part will attract dust, more dust less dust it's still dust, why does it matter? Lengthens life span? How long are you planning to keep these fans? 3yrs? 5yrs? 7yrs? 10yrs? By that time water cooling will become standard.

    After a 24hr GPU AND CPU stress @ 100% load, my case temp. went up by 2C to 30C from the original 28C. Thats alot of heat being generated by my CPU and GPU at the same time but why did it go up by ONLY 2C? Maybe because my case is circulated extremely well? One 120mm fan in front and one 120mm fan in the back running @ 2050rpm, my PSU has 2 fans, one on bottom for suction and one in the rear for exhaust. I have a ZALMAN CNPS7000B-Cu LED for my CPU and a VF700-Cu LED for my GPU. Total fans: 6 Noise: Inaudible to my ears.

    ZERO if your case already has good air circulation.

    Impossible, with the current trend CPUs & GPUs making more power and more speed there is no way a PSU can run without a fan because of all the power these parts need. Your imagination is so far away from reality.

    Your hypothesis on heat dissipation is dissappointing, it shouldn't even be called a hypothesis more like a wild guess. You base your facts on assumptions more than real world tests results. I would never trust a person's opinions based solely on a unproven theory.

    Running the artic cooler against the Zalman at 100% has already been proven that the artic is way way noisier. Tests where conducted using REAL WORLD TEST results. Youc an easily find comparisions with a simple google search.

    I'm not trying to preach which cooler is better or which one anyone should get, but when I see people making false assumptions about something they haven't tested personally or done any research on they're just asking to be enlightened.
     
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  16. OOTay

    OOTay New Member

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    I personally like the artic over the zalman. And i would love to have trog as my lawyer...
     
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  17. VyxerioN New Member

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    Wow, this has become a full on assault...seemingly. I kinda feel guily for bringing so much "heat" to the table so to say, lol :laugh:

    Well Optical, Trog, you both have some very good points but I'm, again, back to being indecisive.

    Why I'd buy the Arctic: Trog is right about not having to have your cooler running at max during most gameplay and this can compensate for the less silent Arctic. I've seen many wind tunnel cooler designs - I had to do some shopping for Xeon coolers and found that educating as well, and they have a better sense in direction to where to throw the unwanted heat. And of course heat in the case is not good at all.

    Why I'd buy the Zalman: Optical does make some strong points about most cases being sufficiently ventilated, and the tests to show. Zalman is also quieter, however omnidirectional in how it displaces the heat. And seeing things work for the first time no if ands or buts is good...but everybody is suceptable to a little unforseen bad luck

    Now I have one last question, I have a Thermaltake Kandalf, that's all aluminum with 4 case fans:
    Intake: 1x 120mm fan
    Outake: 1x 120mm fan, 1x 90mm fan, 1x 90mm fan
    Diagram of airflow below:
    http://thermaltake.com/product/Chassis/fulltower/kandalf/+sha_image/Kandalf_pic/cooling_all.jpg

    The question: Taking into consideration my case and circulation efficiency that I have, which would outright be the better buy?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2006
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  18. OOTay

    OOTay New Member

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    i have the armor which is a veriation of that case style, i would still go with the artic just becuase it will increase the amount of heat that is moving out of the case more efficiently.
     
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  19. VyxerioN New Member

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    Yeah if I take the front inner panel and side doors off the Kandalf it instantly and exactly becomes the Armor.

    My one concern with the Zalman is that the cooler will be directly blowing on my PCI wireless card and everything else in every PCI-e and PCI-X slot (my PCI-e x16 is at the top of all my slots).

    Also with the Enermax 600W ATX v2.0 I have a LOT of wires (still need to tidy up in there). But hey I saw a pic of this guy who was selling a gfx card with a Zalman installed - I saw pics of his setup and his case was absolutely crammed with wires and 1 randomly placed fan just sitting on the wires.

    But the Kandalf/Armor provides LOTS of room. I just figure...
    more space = less density of heat
    which works for the Zalman, BUT...
    less space = higher density of heat....now put a fan on it and you've effectively localized the heat and now have a solution for directing it better.

    So I see both are equal in their own ways. Some have had installation issues with the Arctic but hey, they back it up with good enough of a warranty to cover it.
     
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  20. trog100

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    OOTay.. i spend a lot of time going against the herd view on forums.. in fact i have spent a lifetime doing this in real life .. he he.. i do have a pretty good line of arguement..

    thow sadly where forums are concerned.. the herd majory view very often totally destroys logic..

    i have made pretty much a %100 case for the artic vga cooler.. if certain folks cant see that its purely cos they dont want to.. which is very often the case..

    i hate lawyers but thanks for your compliment.. he he

    its still artic 2 zalman 0.. factor in value for money and it would be artic 3 zalman 0..

    thow i will add one little interesting snippet.. the latest artic accelero vga cooler or whatever its called dosnt bother to exhaust out of the rear of the case.. it too will pump up to 200 watts of heat straight into the case if used in sli mode.. he he he

    and Zalman also make a fatal1ty gaming vga cooler aimed at those who dont care about noise just maximum cooling.. cooler reviewers have lot to answer for when a review is based as they mostly are on maximim cooling only..

    the bottom line here is that any fool can make a super cooler that sounds like an aircon unit and any manufacturer that goes for the sensible compromise between adequate cooling and quite operation dosnt sell many products..

    which leads us back to why the artic cooler fan can be noisy if run flat out.. they have to do this so as they can sell their coolers to kiddy overclockers .. in truth only a fool would run one flat out.. cos it isnt ever nessesary.. the fact the fan goes too fast for silent operation is only to satisfy cooler reviewers that go for maximum cooling and bugger the noise.. as do a lot of kiddy overclockers which do make up a large percentage of the market.. such people usually run a dozen case fans and are proud of it.. in fact the more have they the better.. he he.. which again leads us back to exhausting heat out of the case directly not being on the cooler makers high priority list any more..

    trog

    ps.. and optycal would probably make a better lawyer than me.. he has presented a good case even thow his argument is mostly nonsense.. thats the mark of really good lawyer.. he he..
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2006
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  21. OpTicaL New Member

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    It's funny how trog proclaims he has a 100% case when he has not provided a spec of evidence to prove the Artic is a better choice over the Zalman. False assumptions, unproven theories, and just blind faith in your cooler will not make a case, let alone an arguement :laugh:

    You would have a case probably 10%, but definitely not 100% LOL. So far I have proved every false statement you made about the Zalman wrong. I can provide concrete evidence and you cannot. You can't even provide pictures of atitools to show ur idle and load temps with your artic!

    It's ironic how my book tells me it's Zalman 3 and artic 0 (#1 Zalman is quieter, #2 cools better, and #3 works with ATi AND Nvidia across a massive line of cards. Artic doesn't work with Nvidia, period, ATi cards before 9600 and 90% of all cards on the market today; artic will be useless if you upgrade in the future because of it's limited compatibility. Flexibility, that makes Zalman 4 and artic 0 doesn't it?

    Fatal1ty is just a waste of money, it's just a repainted vf700 with a bigger fan and fins and every overclocker knows that. I don't know why you brought up such nonsense that has no relation to the topic.

    Truth in fact, you can give praise to the artic all you want. Overclockers and 3rd party (Gigabyte) VGA companies all perfer the Zalman over the Artic. All overclocking forums online give praise to the Zalman and not the Artic. Newegg has 259 user reviews for the Zalman VF700-CU while the Artic only has 26. Even Zalman's 2/3 aluminum 1/3 copper hybrid VF700-ALCU has more user reponses(74) than the Artic. :laugh:

    PS: I just found out the artic doesn't work on 80% of all ATi built and 3rd party 9600s which artic says it supports! How's that for a reliable company? LOL

    Just read the reviews on Newegg! hahaha
    I couldn't find a review on the Zalman lower than 4 stars for a 100 reviews! With the Artic? After the first 3 reviews it already has a ONE star rating!!!

    trog100, if you really want to make a case you can at least try ONE very simple thing: show me the evidence! Instead giving a bunch of if this and if that from your own personal views.

    In the end it's up to you VyxerioN to choose which cooler you want because it's your money and your card. Personally, I wouldn't want to waste money on a cheaper cooler which so many negative reviews and responses. Don't take my word for it, just look at the facts! Like the old saying goes, you get what you pay for!
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2006
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  22. VyxerioN New Member

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    I feel like a thrown around ragdoll to be quite frank. :roll:

    I don't have much more to say either, except everytime I come back here I see another point in defense.

    *scratches his head*
    I have a chance to get a Zalman vf-700cu for $20 and the Artic for $50...I'm going with the Zalman.

    Sorry trog but I can't back out on a deal like this. Optical, I hope you're right about this, lol.
    But I'm sure you are; I haven't even checked out Newegg.

    Woah I have mine OC'ed at 546/613 on stock cooler...is that ok?
    One more question, in F.E.A.R. I'm running at max quality but I get lag spikes in game [especially in areas before combat and savepoints], what fixes that (besides reducing quality)? raising max mem?
     
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  23. OpTicaL New Member

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    $20 for the copper Zalman is a extremely good deal, I got mine for $28.50 out the door at a local computer store. Keeping in mind Newegg has the copper one for $29.99+$5.99 shipping so $20 is a steal. I don't know how the Artic can go for $50 when Newegg has it listed for $17.99, $12 cheaper than the Zalman.

    546/613 is a very high oc with stock cooler, have you run the artifact scan to make sure it's stable at that speed? I have F.E.A.R and it's known to cause problems being run at max settings in addition I can't tell a difference in graphical appearance running it at max settings anyway.

    If you want to get more toubleshooting info on F.E.A.R you might want to check out their own support forums.
     
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  24. trog100

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    fear loads its new textures in a different way than most games.. plus they are very big at the higher levels.. that lag is when its doing it.. it usuall picks places like going up some stairs of just before u go thru door to do it.. but its just the down side to super big texure sizes.. games used to pause and a load bunch then run to the next pause.. fear just tries to do it as it goes along..

    i dont think there is any answer to it.. u have to live with it..

    as for those coolers both companies produce good products.. both will cool your grfx card adequately and i feel sorry for anyone that is anal enough to have to agonize over which one to buy.. he he

    a pic just for opitcal..

    [​IMG]

    trog
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2006
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  25. KennyT772

    KennyT772 New Member

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    well with all this concerned there are things to do that forcably move air out of your system.
    take this pic into your perspective.
    [​IMG]
    i recently upgraded from a single to dual fan design and it works great. theres a 7c difference accross the board when its on. i just took a few fans i had and spliced them together. i also took the stronger of the 2 and put it on the end. it effectivly channles the air between my video card, mobo, and soundcard. all of my pci slot covers are open to let the air out. now it may not be as drastic as what the artic silencer does but it could make the zalman perform better and quieter depending on the fans used.
     
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