• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

XCLOUD

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
Not just that. You're fairly stiff...
You have no idea..

But we're off topic again..

Another thing about cloud computing that I find unacceptable is the potential for loss of control. We've already seen the gaming industry cancel and "kill-switch" games, streaming services take down TV shows and movies on a whim. Cloud computing holds the same potential, one day your digital "stuff" is there, the next it's gone, or worse gets hacked and is in the wild.

Way too many problems for the cloud to ever be dominant.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
3,244 (1.36/day)
System Name Grunt
Processor Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard Gigabyte x570 Gaming X
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A
Memory Corsair LPX 3600 4x8GB
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 6800 XT (reference)
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 2TB
Display(s) Samsung CFG70, Samsung NU8000 TV
Case Corsair C70
Power Supply Corsair HX750
Software Win 10 Pro
It's already obvious the government tracks us. They have everything. The NSA owns millions of acres for storing data (and counting). They didn't just purchase the largest data centers in the world for the fun of it.

The problem is consent. They can know something, but the trick is to find a legal way to corroborate what they already may know. Or a trick to spin things, even if you didn't actually do anything illegal. They already violate the (American) 4th amendment on seizure and privacy, but they don't have a legal way to do it in public, so as to not raise alarms. Once you give your consent on releasing any personal info, they're covered on at least using things tied to that. Secondly, if they have enough to get a warrant, they can conduct a sham investigation, then spin your data into whatever they want, and then say it was all found in the "investigation"..
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
32 (0.02/day)
Oh really? Mind telling how you collected thousands of FLAC files and several TB of Anime?
Flacs are from audio stores. Anime imported through a local distributer. Light Novels also. But I wouldn't expect you to know whats a Light Novel.
The government most likely planted a GSM module in your PC and they're spying you all the time.
I bought all the components used and assembled it. My PC hasn't left the room since.
It's already obvious the government tracks us.
My government is a deadbeat. :)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,595 (1.27/day)
Flacs are from audio stores. Anime imported through a local distributer. Light Novels also. But I wouldn't expect you to know whats a Light Novel.
FLACs are ripped from CDs? Do you still have all those CDs?
Same for anime. Do you have all the original copies (disk etc)?
I bought all the components used and assembled it. My PC hasn't left the room since.
Gov's spying hardware is in the parts you've bought, not a separate module.
We had many backdoors found in CPUs, disks, NASes and so on. Now there's the story about the Chinese spying Supermicro clients.
You need more proof? Really?

Do you know how small a WiFi/BT module is? And basic radio chips are even smaller, so they can be easily hidden under a heatsink or a connector. Are you sure you know what every chip on your mobo does?
How much governments are spending on spying programs? How much did US spend on PRISM? I'd presume we're talking about billions of USD.
Compared to that, planting a $3 radio module in each PC and phone seems like a bargain.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,776 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
Isn't that exactly what I've said?
Being able to do what you want means having full rights, not having physical control.

No, its not what you've said and its not the same. Being able to do what you want includes, for example, being able to manipulate the data you own. Does that (often) conflict with copyright laws? YES. But it still is a definition of ownership. Cloud does not, can not, will not offer this in any way, due to those same rules.

No. We created the laws for copyright etc, because the goods changed. 1000 years ago your most prized possession was a golden necklace, a horse, a building. Today, for most companies and many individuals, it's the intellectual property.

You know that something being open-source doesn't mean it's free, right?
I think here we are in agreement. But you also know just as well as I do, that the definition of ownership within a cloud service and that of a golden necklace or a horse is completely different. This touches on that physical control of the goods again. Cloud lacks that entirely and is simply incapable of offering it.

I think you're making a mistake here (much like @Sebastian-san). You think about cloud gaming as something perfect for low-quality, cheap gaming - perfect for phones etc. And it is that. But it also provides a way for high-end, heavy-computation gaming without owning expensive hardware. And potentially, it gets you even further - beyond what a PC can do.
Cloud gaming can do high-end heavy computation gaming, but those games simply don't exist, because there is no market for it. For several reasons:

- complexity is actually going DOWN in gaming. Not up - blame the consoles and general trend + attention span of people
- let's consider a game such as EVE Online, which I think comes closest to a computationally heavy, online focused game that would suit a cloud environment very well. Its no coincidence that a game with such complexity is also such a major time sink. You can't pick this up for an afternoon and forget about it. Specifically the more complex and investment-rich online games are the ones you'd want to own because any kind pay-per-use service would be fár more expensive, due to the hours people spend on such things. MMO subscriptions work in a similar way: you pay a fixed amount to play as much as you want. Thát is precisely the incentive of it.
- the first game that actually, truly would benefit from such a massive increase in performance has yet to be made. And it won't ever be made, most probably, because there simply isn't a marketplace to support it. Of course, chicken - egg situation here, but still. What sort of game would you think of that isn't possible on current day hardware and suddenly is possible on cloud?
- for all those other games that dó run on a (high-end) PC, there is the cost/debt aspect I spoke of earlier, and I still think cloud gaming is not anything more than a cure for not being able to save money for your own hardware - or for it not being feasible in the preferred form factor.


But the real question is: does he game without internet? Do you?
Of course PC gaming is still strongly single-player, but most best-selling games on phones and consoles have a very pronounced cooperation component (guilds, achievements, duels, comparisons etc).

You think your data is more secure kept at home than on a server.
For exactly the same reason people have thought cars are safer than planes - even after decades of superior casualty statistics.
Today people are afraid of autonomous cars even though - even at this early stage - safety statistics are in favor of AI.
People tend to prefer the solution they are used to or they think they understand. This will never change.

Very good points IMO. There is a change towards online, and yet, along with that, we've also seen a resurgence of offline games and a revival of offline-focused types of games. The adventure is back, the linear platformer is going strong (even on consoles), sims are alive and well, etc etc. While the popular gaming trend is definitely towards online, there are also niches in gaming that are here to stay and even grow larger. As for the correction: the information overload we are experiencing is going to push people 'offline' from time to time. We are collectively still learning how best to deal with online, is my belief. We still haven't found the ideal (healthy) approach.

The discussion on data is the same discussion of ownership and its definition. With your own data, this discussion is currently very much alive. It dóes matter where my data is stored - in which country, under which legislation, etc. It has an impact on how my data can be (ab-)used and on the extent of my rights as a citizen. And again: the key difference here between cloud stored data and that stored at home is the physical access. Its that physical access that represents actual, full, unlimited control and ownership. The moment you deliver that to the internet, you give it away.

Owning does NOT mean can do what you want and when you want. Software is the perfect example of that.

And sadly, that policy is now spreading into the hardware arena where software is embedded in the hardware. Cell phones, tablets and PoS computers are good examples. But other industries are affected too. Note the recent lawsuits in my state where currently farmers cannot even repair their own tractors.
.

I think you misread or misunderstood me. Ownership means exactly that I can do with an item whatever the hell I want. After that, this idea of intellectual property took hold of many goods and we invented rules to protect that property. But a certain type of law doesn't suddenly change a definition of ownership. It does so only in the context of that law. And like you've pointed out: there are many actors trying to change those laws, all the time. Either for better or for worse.

The legal aspect suddenly isn't all that important when it happens within the safety of your own home. Once you go public with it, that's when it becomes an issue. And even if you'd use a VPN, all cloud gaming is essentially 'public'.

Given your example of tractors, I think we are in agreement about the core (non-legal) definition of ownership. It means full control. A logical, reasonable set of rules and laws would support that idea and it actually always has - until we started thinking of intellectual property, which is being abused to extend the power of corporations. Cloud gaming and services are no different. The incentive is all of its advantages, and the hidden agenda is wrestling more control away from the end-user. People don't like that.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,595 (1.27/day)
I've found something interesting for people that would like to try game streaming. No affiliation etc - I haven't heard about them until 10 minutes ago.
www.parsecgaming.com

If I understand correctly, their product simply takes care of streaming, so you can use it at home (to stream from PC to phone, for example). But they also offer an automated AWS setup for cloud gaming. You have to bring the games, obviously.
Important part: they have a Linux client. We've had some Linux gaming discussions lately.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,776 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
I've found something interesting for people that would like to try game streaming. No affiliation etc - I haven't heard about them until 10 minutes ago.
www.parsecgaming.com

If I understand correctly, their product simply takes care of streaming, so you can use it at home (to stream from PC to phone, for example). But they also offer an automated AWS setup for cloud gaming. You have to bring the games, obviously.
Important part: they have a Linux client. We've had some Linux gaming discussions lately.

Yep I know it and it works quite well, if latency is no object.
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,595 (1.27/day)
Yep I know it and it works quite well, if latency is no object.
You've used it locally (PC->something) or the AWS approach as well?
I wish they had a client for Tizen...

I'm currently using Steam Link for streaming from PC to TV (different rooms), but the quality is far from amazing.
The target solution would be to stream at 4K via a Windows/Linux miniPC - like a Zotac PI225 (4K@30fps).
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
12,012 (1.86/day)
Location
Nebraska, USA
System Name Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s) Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse Logitech M190
Keyboard Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software W10 Pro 64-bit
Im also not doing anything illegal. But that does not mean governments are not doing anything illegal with their hackers.
Nor does it mean they are hacking you! Why should they? You (and me) are but one tiny krill among billions in all the world's seas and oceans. Our governments have much bigger fish to track down and kill. If the cyberpolice and their informants cruise by and take a peek at what we are doing, find nothing and move on, I'm okay with that. The Internet is NOT my (or your) private domain.

If you want to stop "your" government sponsored hackers you claim are spying on you from spying on you, stay off the Internet! You cannot go out in public and expect your actions to remain private. And for sure, take your cell phone and smash it to pieces then throw it into an incinerator. Your cell phone and carrier are much greater threats to your privacy than your computer or the xCloud.

Frankly, what scares me WAY MORE than my government spying on me is the incompetence and complacency :mad: :shadedshu: of the executive management at companies like Facebook, Equifax, Linkedin, JPMorgan, and other institutions who failed to keep our data safe by failing to apply available patches to known vulnerabilities in a timely basis. Companies and their leaders who failed to hire qualified IT and IT security professionals and/or who failed to give those people the resources and authority to carry out their responsibilities. Companies and leaders who failed to report breaches in a timely basis just because they were afraid it would tarnish their company's image and affect their bottom lines and/or jobs. That's what I am more afraid of than my government. Now if I lived in China, N. Korea, Russia, Iran, Sudan, Syria, Belarus, and several others, I would probably feel different.

But we're off topic again..
How can you tell? ;)
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,776 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
You've used it locally (PC->something) or the AWS approach as well?
I wish they had a client for Tizen...

I'm currently using Steam Link for streaming from PC to TV (different rooms), but the quality is far from amazing.
The target solution would be to stream at 4K via a Windows/Linux miniPC - like a Zotac PI225 (4K@30fps).

Used it locally, and it works a bit better than Steam or even SHIELD streaming, noticeably less latency. And SHIELD was already pretty reasonable, I would say latency wise comparable to a console experience. You feel it drag a little bit, but you can easily compensate for it. 60 fps The Witcher 3 on my main rig 'felt' like 30-40 FPS in the living room, basically. With Parsec it feels more along the lines of 50 FPS - nearly that nice 60 fps smoothness. (just used FPS to best describe the experience, the game was running 60+ all the time).

But yeah - that is the local experience. Really a best case scenario.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
32 (0.02/day)
FLACs are ripped from CDs? Do you still have all those CDs?
Same for anime. Do you have all the original copies (disk etc)?

Gov's spying hardware is in the parts you've bought, not a separate module.
We had many backdoors found in CPUs, disks, NASes and so on. Now there's the story about the Chinese spying Supermicro clients.
You need more proof? Really?

Do you know how small a WiFi/BT module is? And basic radio chips are even smaller, so they can be easily hidden under a heatsink or a connector. Are you sure you know what every chip on your mobo does?
How much governments are spending on spying programs? How much did US spend on PRISM? I'd presume we're talking about billions of USD.
Compared to that, planting a $3 radio module in each PC and phone seems like a bargain.
I dont know how to rip. Where do you think all my CDs and BDs are? They are here in my room. You seem to fail to realize that Im not american and I dont live in america. As for spyes, you advocate government spying on people?
Nor does it mean they are hacking you! Why should they? You (and me) are but one tiny krill among billions in all the world's seas and oceans. Our governments have much bigger fish to track down and kill. If the cyberpolice and their informants cruise by and take a peek at what we are doing, find nothing and move on, I'm okay with that. The Internet is NOT my (or your) private domain.

If you want to stop "your" government sponsored hackers you claim are spying on you from spying on you, stay off the Internet! You cannot go out in public and expect your actions to remain private. And for sure, take your cell phone and smash it to pieces then throw it into an incinerator. Your cell phone and carrier are much greater threats to your privacy than your computer or the xCloud.

Frankly, what scares me WAY MORE than my government spying on me is the incompetence and complacency :mad::shadedshu: of the executive management at companies like Facebook, Equifax, Linkedin, JPMorgan, and other institutions who failed to keep our data safe by failing to apply available patches to known vulnerabilities in a timely basis. Companies and their leaders who failed to hire qualified IT and IT security professionals and/or who failed to give those people the resources and authority to carry out their responsibilities. Companies and leaders who failed to report breaches in a timely basis just because they were afraid it would tarnish their company's image and affect their bottom lines and/or jobs. That's what I am more afraid of than my government. Now if I lived in China, N. Korea, Russia, Iran, Sudan, Syria, Belarus, and several others, I would probably feel different.
I sure hope they are not. They have no right to take a peek at what anyone is doing without a warrant. I was not referring to my government. I was referring to american government spying on the entire world through entities like Facebook and Google imo. Its not nice. And Im just not your local patriot, sorry.
You would feel a lot better if you lived in Russia, trust me. Your government controlled media has brainwashed you with anti-russian propaganda. Russia is amazing and I love and respect Putin. I even have photos of Russian nature on my wall prints.
I would rather die than travel to america as a tourist. I start throwing up just at the though of it.

So bye. I would like to stick around and chat as intended, but the patriotism here is making me vomit. Farewell.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,776 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
I dont know how to rip. Where do you think all my CDs and BDs are? They are here in my room. You seem to fail to realize that Im not american and I dont live in america. As for spyes, you advocate government spying on people?

I sure hope they are not. They have no right to take a peek at what anyone is doing without a warrant. I was not referring to my government. I was referring to american government spying on the entire world through entities like Facebook and Google imo. Its not nice. And Im just not your local patriot, sorry.
You would feel a lot better if you lived in Russia, trust me. Your government controlled media has brainwashed you with anti-russian propaganda. Russia is amazing and I love and respect Putin. I even have photos of Russian nature on my wall prints.
I would rather die than travel to america as a tourist. I start throwing up just at the though of it.

So bye. I would like to stick around and chat as intended, but the patriotism here is making me vomit. Farewell.

There is no patrottism here, at least not the way I've read it in this topic.

You may notice I live in neither of these countries ;) Perhaps it would be good to open up and ignore the fact some posts are written by Americans, or Europeans, or Asians and just consider them at face value.

Shame to see you go, especially for the wrong reasons... You did open an interesting topic here worthy of discussion.
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
12,012 (1.86/day)
Location
Nebraska, USA
System Name Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s) Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse Logitech M190
Keyboard Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software W10 Pro 64-bit
You would feel a lot better if you lived in Russia, trust me. Your government controlled media has brainwashed you with anti-russian propaganda. Russia is amazing and I love and respect Putin. I even have photos of Russian nature on my wall prints.
I would rather die than travel to america as a tourist. I start throwing up just at the though of it.

So bye. I would like to stick around and chat as intended, but the patriotism here is making me vomit. Farewell.
Wowsers! While I am patriotic, my comments in no way were meant to be. I was merely commenting on the known facts. Those countries not only spy on their own peoples, but they control the information they see by limiting their access to the information.

My government controlled media? :roll: Yeah, Trump has total control over what the media says about him and our government. :kookoo:

I find your comments ironic since it is you who first brought up "globally connected government hackers" and accusing them of illegal activities.

You love and respect Putin? :eek: Okay. But when you start suggesting the leaders of a country, who got there by poisoning or making their opponents disappear, are what make a country great, then it is you who have been brainwashed. FTR, Russia has some of the most beautiful natural and man-made wonders of the world. Sorry that is what you think makes a country (or its government) great.

I vote to close this thread as it has gone way beyond, and in several directions off, off course.
 

Kursah

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
14,666 (2.30/day)
Location
Missoula, MT, USA
System Name Kursah's Gaming Rig 2018 (2022 Upgrade) - Ryzen+ Edition | Gaming Laptop (Lenovo Legion 5i Pro 2022)
Processor R7 5800X @ Stock | i7 12700H @ Stock
Motherboard Asus ROG Strix X370-F Gaming BIOS 6203| Legion 5i Pro NM-E231
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S Push-Pull + NT-H1 | Stock Cooling
Memory TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z 32GB (2x16) DDR4 4000 @ 3600 18-20-20-42 1.35v | 32GB DDR5 4800 (2x16)
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 4070 JetStream 12GB | CPU-based Intel Iris XE + RTX 3070 8GB 150W
Storage 4TB SP UD90 NVME, 960GB SATA SSD, 2TB HDD | 1TB Samsung OEM NVME SSD + 4TB Crucial P3 Plus NVME SSD
Display(s) Acer 28" 4K VG280K x2 | 16" 2560x1600 built-in
Case Corsair 600C - Stock Fans on Low | Stock Metal/Plastic
Audio Device(s) Aune T1 mk1 > AKG K553 Pro + JVC HA-RX 700 (Equalizer APO + PeaceUI) | Bluetooth Earbuds (BX29)
Power Supply EVGA 750G2 Modular + APC Back-UPS Pro 1500 | 300W OEM (heavy use) or Lenovo Legion C135W GAN (light)
Mouse Logitech G502 | Logitech M330
Keyboard HyperX Alloy Core RGB | Built in Keyboard (Lenovo laptop KB FTW)
Software Windows 11 Pro x64 | Windows 11 Home x64
I vote that you all stop with this nonsense in TPU's topics so we didn't have to close them in the first place.

I cannot close this thread, but am issuing reply bans and will issue infractions as needed for those of you that aren't willing to to grasp or adhere to our set of rules. Feel free to check the forum guidelines link in my sig if you need a reminder.

:toast:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top