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XFX HD5870 XXX, my user story, 10 months after release.

cadaveca

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#1
Ok, so most of you are aware, I'm not very happy with my HD5870's from XFX.

First, the stock clocks were 875/1300mhz. I bought these cards based on memory speed, knowing I was planning eyefinity.

A couple of months after I bought them, the cards would fail in many apps. I was directed by XFX to flash to a newer bios, with differnet clocks...900/1250. They did tell me at the time, that overall, performance was better, but some instances performance was less. Clearly they failed to meet thier own warranty(replacement based on performance, not value), however, no product they had actually offered this performance. Fine.


One card worked with the new bios, but the other began to overheat under the higher gpu clocks, causing throttle. I told XFX that the bios resulted in lower performance. rather than troubleshoot as to why I was getting lower performance, XFX merely told me that lower performance was not possible. It wasn't until I told them about the throttle that they conceded that that might be an issue, and that I wasn't crazy(I am a bit off-center, as you all know, so that's just fine:laugh:). XFX support gets a fail right there, for not troubleshooting the issue properly.


So, get my new card in the mail, and it's actually another XXX reference card, with the new bios. Works great. but over the past two weeks, I've noticed odd grinding sounds coming from the PC, and some short investigating, and it's very obvious that the fan on this vga is about to die. I think Erocker has run into this as well, with his 5850's, so to me, these fans weren't made to be operating @ 75c or so, as they are in my system(gpu loads over 90c, throttle @ 98c).


So, out of 9 XFX ATi vgas, 6 have had to be RMA'ed far various issues, most for overheating on stock cooling. $30 shipping for an RMA is cheaper than $60 for cooling(although I do have Zalman coolers here for these cards, but not the right size screwdriver to put them on...yet).

The easy fix would be for XFX to send me a new cooler, or a fan, at least, with the appropriate thermal pads.


Who wants to bet they insist is return the card?:shadedshu


BTW, that 6 cards @ $30 or so each for shipping is an extra $196 in shipping charges these cards have cost me(I added up all my receipts).



So buyer beware....Maintaining your pc is gonna cost some money...and maybe some time without a working system. Usually, XFX rmas take a total of 10 weeks from first email about the issue, to the repalcement card arriving. After 6 of them, I can safely say this is the norm. Last one was started April 24th, they shipped replacement June 8th, 6 weeks later.

I'll update this as the RMA progresses...should be interesting.


:cry:
 
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#2
why didnt you make them pay the shipping for rma ?
 

cadaveca

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#3
LoL...I wish. They also only offer advanced RMA in the US, and not to everyone. really, they should just ship me a new card, and put in a label for returning the bad one, as Dell does. Instead, they want a CC deposit..but I don't use CCs. not liek I'm gonna rip them off...the fact they ask, even, pisses me off.

In reality though, I cannot MAKE them do ANYTHING. All I can do is advise others on my experience, so they know what to expect.


I mean, I have thier FedEx account number:)D). I could just bill it to them, but that's not my style.:laugh:
 

FreedomEclipse

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#4
it probably doesnt apply but it might help....the sale of good Act 1979 states that it should be the SELLER that picks up the tab for returns - if not then it would be good business practise to, Ive not had to deal with XFX CC but it could be the case that your call got put through to a complete prick who then had to pick up your case and possibly became your 'go-to-guy' when you had issues with the cards they returned to you...

48B Repair or replacement of the goods



(1) If section 48A above applies, the buyer may require the seller—



(a) to repair the goods, or





(b) to replace the goods.





(2) If the buyer requires the seller to repair or replace the goods, the seller must—



(a) repair or, as the case may be, replace the goods within a reasonable time but without causing significant inconvenience to the buyer;





(b) bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage).






(3) The buyer must not require the seller to repair or, as the case may be, replace the goods if that remedy is—



(a) impossible, or





(b) disproportionate in comparison to the other of those remedies, or





(c) disproportionate in comparison to an appropriate reduction in the purchase price under paragraph (a), or rescission under paragraph (b), of section 48C(1) below.





(4) One remedy is disproportionate in comparison to the other if the one imposes costs on the seller which, in comparison to those imposed on him by the other, are unreasonable, taking into account—



(a) the value which the goods would have if they conformed to the contract of sale,





(b) the significance of the lack of conformity, and





(c) whether the other remedy could be effected without significant inconvenience to the buyer.





(5) Any question as to what is a reasonable time or significant inconvenience is to be determined by reference to—



(a) the nature of the goods, and





(b) the purpose for which the goods were acquired.
like i said, it probably doesnt apply but - this has helped me a lot in the past lmao, Ive even taken guys to court when they refused to give me a refund when requested when i got a DOA from them.
 

cadaveca

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#5
it probably doesnt apply but it might help....the sale of good Act 1979 states that it should be the SELLER that picks up the tab for returns - if not then it would be good business practise to, Ive not had to deal with XFX CC but it could be the case that your call got put through to a complete prick who then had to pick up your case and possibly became your 'go-to-guy' when you had issues with the cards they returned to you...



like i said, it probably doesnt apply but - this has helped me a lot in the past lmao, Ive even taken guys to court when they refused to give me a refund when requested when i got a DOA from them.
Interesting. Unfortunately, I live in Canada, and I do not think such law applies here. But I'm gonna check into that right NAOW!!!:laugh:
 

FreedomEclipse

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#6
you will find that a lot of companies become much more co-operative once you mention the consumer rights act/standards.

there are companies that offer great aftersales support. then there are those who dont really care and arent really interested in helping you at all and lead you through all these unessary 'processes' and operator switches that you eventually just hang up n not bother anymore - companies like these usually dont bank on people knowing their own rights as consumers, so when you do these assholes will roll out the red carpet for you. they'd even go as far as askin premission to shit their pants. I wouldnt go easy on them - you bought expensive hardware n its their job to make sure their products are satisfactory & within an acceptable working condition. if not maybe theyd be better off shutting shop n turning into a mob of thieves, burglars n other rejects of society that pray on the weak.
 

cadaveca

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#7
LoL..they've already given my the cold shoulder over the cards not being able to run 1300mhz mem...I got them on that one, but haven't pushed it...performance guarantees on products purchased are law, and my cards do not perform. I can sue them for losses, as well I can go and buy a new card that performs as it should, and then make them pay for it. I can sue for loss of time with the product, it's performance, and their lack or meeting thier own warranty terms in regards to performance.

i do KNOW MY RIGHTS. unfortuantely, the rights I have here are not the same as in the country the company is based, so they have some false ideas as to what is applicable to them or not. Should things not turn out satisfactory with XFX, I will persue legal avenues, if not just for myself...at least also for everyone else that might buy thier products.
 

cadaveca

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#9
Yes, I'm very aware that many people are not happy with them and thier RMA process. They have recently offered one person a trip to thier facility in Cali so that person could see the RMA process in person...but the effort clearly seemed like FreedomEclipse mentions...they rolled out the red carpet when they were caught with thier pants down.


However, I'd like to give them the chance to redeem themselves...maybe that was a special case..we all know that people with good stories rarely comment about it...

So, I started this thread and will keep it updated with that in mind...I just submitted the intial ticket befor making this thread, so everyone here can see how the RMA process goes. Once I get the initial response form them, I'll post up the ticket details, and we will see exactly how it goes.


hopefully things will go good..ebcuase let me tell you, them telling me that the card was not performing as I indicated, really got me...they told me it wasn't possible that I was having the issues as I related them...until I pointed out the obvious... so my own opinion of them isn't very high either.

We will see if they can deal with this problem appropriately.
 
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#10
XFX is the worst vga brand ever, i know it by myself....
I greatly disagree with you on that subject and would really like to know where you form your professional opinion from...

I have been selling primarily XFX video cards for 4 years, averaging around 15 a month, everything in their lineup, I have had very few issues and have always had very simple and fast returns on failed cards. Never once has XFX failed to please me or my customers.

Granted they cannot always do it right, it can't be done, too big too many customers, too many employees.

My RMA rate on XFX cards is under 1%, I cannot say the same for ECS, Sparkle, Palit, EVGA and PNY.
 

cadaveca

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#11
Well, my RMA rate right now, is 66%. 4x 4890, 2x 5870, out of 6x 4890, and 3x5870. I do not crunch on these cards, and only use them for surfing and gaming.

Second 2 4890 cards they sent me were bad when they sent them. Many reports of these "underperforming" card on carious forums.

Also keep in mind they originally sold HD5870 XXX @ 875/1300mhz, and the existence of such a product has been completely removed from thier website. the revised spec is 875/1250, so the HD5870 XXX has been problematic for them at best.
 
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#12
Well, my RMA rate right now, is 66%. 4x 4890, 2x 5870, out of 6x 4890, and 3x5870.
I can say I'm slightly concerned about your cooling, power supplies or power stability at your location.

Either that or you have some royally bad luck, at a 66% Failure rate they would be well on their way out of business.

There was quite a few 4890's that had issues, not only XFX, I can't say too much on the 58**s.
 

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#13
I agree. Both HD5870 was due to overheating...first one and this one seems to be bad fans(they are from the same batch, just 5 numbers apart in serial number, so I feel safe to say they got a batch of bad fans.)

I don't really blame XFX on the failures...they lose on how they treated/dealt with the issues. They claimed that they make the reference cards(I know for a fact that they do not), so I've been called a liar, and lied to, by thier support staff.

Products dying are just a fact of life. It's why warranties are LAW...to protect consumers from these problems, as they are actually very common. I think any product with less than 10% returns is far from the norm.

Problems with AT gpus have been pinpointed to TSMC, I did quote that article some time ago where a third party debugger verified that part of the resist removal affected silicon quality. This lead to ATi doubling certain parts on the 4890 vs the 4870. I can understand that even that issue wasn't AMDs fault, but TSMC's
 
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#14
I don't really blame XFX on the failures...they lose on how they treated/dealt with the issues. They claimed that they make the reference cards(I know for a fact that they do not), so I've been called a liar, and lied to, by thier support staff.
Yes, that is pretty unacceptable, I would honestly call them and ask to speak to a CS manager about your experiences with them, whenever I have trouble with the monkeys at tier 1, the management is generally much quicker to get the issue resolved and much more willing to work with you.
 

cadaveca

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#15
Sure, but should I even have to take such steps? Really? You know what I mean? The fact that I know a bit more than the average user shouldn't have any bearing in receiving technical support...everyone should receive the same high-quality service...or at least decent quality service. I do not contact them unless I have a problem they must deal with(and usually I know the cause and the solution, but leave that up to them), and I have never had any RMA denied, although they did try a few times. I take this tact having done support for HP, Comcast and Dell, i know that there are procedures that must be followed in order, so let them deal with it that way...however, over my RMA experiences, it seems that there is no "flow-control" that directs them how to appropriately address issues.
 
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#16
they got me on a 4870 so I hope you get this sorted out power to ya.
 

cadaveca

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#17
they got me on a 4870 so I hope you get this sorted out power to ya.
Heh. Lots of doom and gloom...when really, this should be no big deal. Fan is dying. Needs to be replaced. They have some options(from cheapest to most expensive)...just send me a fan, just send me a completely cooling assembly, have me send in the card, and then replace it. They can test and bin another XXX to run 900/1250, or replace with BE card.

Now, because I had 875/1300 cards, they have to replace with 900/1250, the Black Edition spec. No big deal, most 5870 will do 900/1250 no sweat. But I mention this, as because XXX spec is 875/1250 now, they cannot just replace with another XXX with those speeds...I bought a card that had higher specs than that. fact of the matter is that my own testing shows that I do suffer some losses with 900/1250 over 875/1300, but it is a very small amount, so while legally I can make them bin 1300mhz cards, I cannot be bothered with it. I just want a card that works, out of the box, and with the performance I paid for.

I don't think it's too much to ask for them to jsut send the fan or cooling assembly...would probably be cheaper ofr them anyway. And if they do make the cards as they say, then they should have the parts on hand.

Because it's cost me $200 extra so far, buying thier products(ignoring that the same problems could have happened from any OEM, but only becuase they tell me that they make thecards themselves, so should be better able to control quality), I am a bit upset about that extra cost, and do feel owed something for that extra cost in maintaining my pc within warranty periods, but I know they will do nothing about it.

However, because I do have those expenses paid for by Dell with Dell products(they have the best RMA process I have ever had the pleasure of using), I do not think it's too much to ask for at least acknowledgement of the problems and costs I've had to deal with.

But given the last time they incorrectly told me that my problems weren't even possible, I think that may be stretching things a bit to expect as much.

it's not liek I misstreat my cards or anything...unmodified, for the most part, and the modifications are ones they do cover under warranty.

I purposely bought XFX 4890's and 5870's becuase of the warranty that supports cooling changes, as long as you do not damage the card maknig the change...I wanted to see if there was real reason for them to offer such coverage.
 
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vnl7

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#18
I greatly disagree with you on that subject and would really like to know where you form your professional opinion from...

I have been selling primarily XFX video cards for 4 years, averaging around 15 a month, everything in their lineup, I have had very few issues and have always had very simple and fast returns on failed cards. Never once has XFX failed to please me or my customers.

Granted they cannot always do it right, it can't be done, too big too many customers, too many employees.

My RMA rate on XFX cards is under 1%, I cannot say the same for ECS, Sparkle, Palit, EVGA and PNY.
XFX build some low quality cards, especially their custom pcb models. I had one 4890 performing like a 4850 whit a cheap custom pcb, unfortunately they are still doing this. http://www.overclock.net/ati/641684-warning-xfx-5770-now-only-using.html
 

mdsx1950

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#19
XFX is the worst vga brand ever, i know it by myself....
It's actually quite the opposite of that. Its one of the best VGA brands i know. Owned an XFX 8800GT Alpha Dog Edition (never failed on me) and after that two XFX 5970s Black Editions which never failed on me. :respect:
 
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vnl7

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#20
It's actually quite the opposite of that. Its one of the best VGA brands i know. Owned an XFX 8800GT Alpha Dog Edition (never failed on me) and after that two XFX 5970s Black Editions which never failed on me. :respect:
not all cards are bad, but they sell some low quality boards that cause frequent problems
 
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#21
In the process of RMA my 5970 for overheating issue. Will be updating this thread with my experience. So far it's taking more than 24 hrs to repond to my inquiries.
 

cadaveca

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#22
There was a large electrical storm that hit the local network building for my ISP(I saw it hit:eek:). Took out ALOT of internet service....luckily, because I use IPTV, and am on a different network from most, I still have a connection.

So, I have no way of knowing if I've been contacted...at least, unless I go to the XFX website and log in.

The XFX website used to say that they respond withi 24 houyrs, but now says this:

At busy periods this may be delayed until the next business day.
So I should expect a response TODAY.

[ 8/9/2010 5:14:19 PM] This issue deals with Card #_________I previously had to RMA a card bought at the same time as this one, for overheating issues. That one was _________. Anyway, so this card now, upon boot, will make a huge racket. The fan is on it`s way out. Id it possible to get a replacement cooling assembly? Or even just a new fan, and the thermal pad for the VRMs? Card loadsin games @ 98c, and begins throttle. I do not want to return this card and get a new one. the cooler on this one simply needs to be replaced. This card wasa XXX 1300mhz mem card, failed those clocks, new bios sorted that for this card, the other overheated under the higher gpu clocks. And let me say, out of 9 XFX ATi vgas, 6 have needed replacement. This has cost me a total of $200 in RMA shipping fees. Each of the XFX 5870`s has failed stock 875/1300 clocks, and now, is failing the new 900/1250 clocks. I understand that fans and such dying aren`t exactly within XFX`s control, but the 1300mhz memory clocks were. Please advise on how to rectify this issue, and hopefully without me having to send any card in. Maybe, if these cards actually used a fan speed over 60%, they wouldn`t be overheating, but at no ponit have they ever increased fan speed to deal with the heat... The card works fine @ 850/1200mhz, and no throttle, so it`s defiantely the heat causing the issue.
Thier website doesn't even have the right time....:laugh:..I submitted that ticket @ 8:15am local time. I wonder where in the world it's 5PM at that time...surely not in the US?:shadedshu

:rolleyes:
 
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#23
Sure, but should I even have to take such steps? Really? You know what I mean?
No I don't think anyone should ever have to take such steps, but being a businessman myself, I understand very well how it simply cannot be avoided in all cases and the larger a company is the more often it will happen.

I can understand the agony of your situation just trying to give ya an idea that hopefully might result in a better and more acceptable response from them.
 

cadaveca

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#24
LoL. THere's no agony...I merely have no faith in thier tech support after they told me there was no way I was getting the numbers I did...and then admitted there was an issues\ after I spelled it out for them. A very basic issue.

I suppose, you know, maybe I am over-dramatizing this, after reading my own posts a bit here, but alot of that is centered around having to send in that bad card...when it was merely overheating, and needed a re-TIM. They could have done it the cheap way, and just sent me a thermal pad...instead, they sent me a whole new card.

Now, the fan is dying. I can replace it very easily. In fact, I have every intention of doing so...got the aftermarket coolers sitting here on my desk. However, if I ever decide to sell the cards at a later date, having a broken stock cooler just doesn't work. The cooler is needed for RMA, and the cards have "double lifetime" warranty, so the new user of the card needs all that stuff...and me giving broken stuff jsut doesn't work well with me...nevermind that I had no part in it's death.


In the end though, you are very right. I run my own business as well, so do completely understand...but likewise, as a business owner, I do expect a higher level of service...the same level that I give myself. I give that service to everyone...so it seems fair to me to expect the same.

In reality, I only really started this thread as an example..I am very confident that this RMA will go smoothly...and when my last was so bad, I really wanted to highlight how sometimes things are bad(past RMA), and sometimes they are good(hopefully this RMA).

Becuase of my bad experience, I tend to highlight everything they do wrong...that's just how my mind works. I'll pick apart every little detail...and with them, those details are killer. I've been lied to, sent bad parts and been told there is no way they were bad...you should have seen those cards...

Let me tell you something. XFX doesn't test the cards they send out. They only test cards the SECOND TIME YOU'VE MADE A RETURN. AND THEY TEST IN INTEL SYSTEMS, NOT AMD.

I am very leary of getting a bad card back. It's happened before, and as admitted by XFX staff, it's also very likely to happen again. I do understand that they just simply send out returned cards as about 80% of returns are user error. But i have received that other 20% already, once.

Having dealt with XFX RMA on more than one occasion, I have had a glimpse of how things work over there, and as a business owner...I can tell that the people in charge are very young, and that work eithic stays in a "fun" place, which isn't always the best for business.

But none of that matters, really. I need my faulty parts replaced, and prefereably, without having to return the entire card. It's cheaper and easier for both myself and XFX for me to jsut get a new fan. However, I know that that particular thing won't happen, and I'll end up having to return the card...two to three weeks from now, when I finally get an RMA number. It will take a single day for me to get the card to them(sent next-business day), and two weeks for testing. then another week to get a new card to my door. That's 6 weeks, for what should take at most a couple of days.

Being without my full system, again, for 6-8 weeks, for a card that has already been deemed faulty(cannot run the 875/1300 clocks I bought it with) , it pretty frustrating.

Nevermind the extra costs I have incurred from 66% of the XFX products I have bought...and technically, I could say 7 out of 9 have been faulty..as none of these XXX cards actually run the clocks I bought them with. So much so that all evidence of these cards is gone from thier website...
 

quasarsky

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#25
same reason i dont' buy sapphire. i bought a x1950pro that supposedly had 1600mhz ram and it wouldn't run past the normal x1950pro of 1400mhz. never again. unfortunately i have 2 xfx 5870's. hopefully i never need to rma them