Are you using an AMD Ryzen X3D CPU with 3D V-Cache?

[Gica]

I understood very well, but you don't get the ideas.
For overclocking, chipset B motherboards are not good because they primarily block CPU overclocking. They are an option only if you are not interested in overclocking, but in system stability.
What you didn't understand and still don't is that DDR5 only works on the Gear 2. It's one of the reasons why a processor with DDR4 RAM memories clocked at 3600MHz achieves the same performance as the same processor with DDR5 RAM memories clocked at 5600MHz. We are talking strictly about gaming and with very powerful video cards.
In short, where you see DDR5 6000 (obtained only with Gear 2 because Gear 1 far exceeds the limits of the controller) the frequency of the memory controller is the same as when using DDR4 at 3000 MHz.

My locked processor allows me 3600MHz Gear 1, equivalent to 7200MHz Gear 2.
Where you see DDR4 4400MHz, these frequencies are possible by pushing the voltages to very dangerous values and the stability also suffers. They are for exposure on forums, not for intense activity and online games where a reset destroys your work.

As an idea, the voltage of the memory controller and the RAM memories are also unlocked on chipset B motherboards. So is the frequency of these RAM modules. I have 12500 and 13500 and both work perfectly with the memories clocked at 3600MHz Gear 1. I only tested the 12500 for a few days, but the 13500 runs stable as a rock since February. This is the memory limit, I don't know if processors can do more, but I'm not interested in a 0.01% increase in performance and 1000% system instability.
On both processors, VDDQ TX Voltage (controller voltage) is set at 1.1V. The nominal voltage is 1.2V if XMP is not activated and 1.35V if it is activated.

 

[snuif09]

What you didn't understand and still don't is that DDR5 only works on the Gear 2.

On AMD platforms it does run in 1:1 or 1:2 for sure and has been tested which is equal to gear 1 and 2 on intel so that is just blatant misinfo you could have googled quickly. No clue how it is on intel but has nothing to do with DDR5 not being able to. https://www.igorslab.de/en/ryzen-70...ctice-test-with-benchmarks-recommendations/5/

On topic still running my 3600, might consider upgrading to a 5800X3D soon grabbing it cheap from the used market. Already seen them go for around 200-250 euros used which is a steal. Maybe even wait it out till other gens not really in a rush to upgrade the lifespans on cpu's these days are great.

 

[Gica]

On AMD platforms it does run in 1:1 or 1:2 for sure and has been tested which is equal to gear 1 and 2 on intel so that is just blatant misinfo you could have googled quickly. No clue how it is on intel but has nothing to do with DDR5 not being able to. https://www.igorslab.de/en/ryzen-70...ctice-test-with-benchmarks-recommendations/5/

That's right, you really have no idea about Intel. In the link you will notice the AMD Fabric Clock, which is neither Gear 1 (the frequencies are lower) nor Gear 2 (the frequencies are higher).
For AMD's Fabric Clock to be identical to Gear 1, the frequency had to be 3000 MHz for DDR5 6000MHz. I see 2000 MHz.

Even the moderator doesn't really know much about Intel because here he says that the differences are due to Gear 2 versus Gear 1. The differences are because two different processors are compared: i5-13400 versus i9-13900K. As even with Intel you cannot reach frequencies of 3000MHz with the memory controller, all tests with DDR5 are done only with Gear 2 (for 6000MHz, the memory controller reaches 1500MHz). Only for DDR4 you can use Gear 1. The difference between Gear 1 and 2 is not the writing/reading/copying speed, here the impact is minimal. The big impact is on latency.

----------------------------------------
Moderator's statement (link):

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And the comparison between Gear 1 and 2 on my system. It is clear where the losers are.

In conclusion, please avoid contradicting someone on subjects that you do not master.

 

[deb]

That's right, you really have no idea about Intel. In the link you will notice the AMD Fabric Clock, which is neither Gear 1 (the frequencies are lower) nor Gear 2 (the frequencies are higher).
For AMD's Fabric Clock to be identical to Gear 1, the frequency had to be 3000 MHz for DDR5 6000MHz. I see 2000 MHz.

Even the moderator doesn't really know much about Intel because here he says that the differences are due to Gear 2 versus Gear 1. The differences are because two different processors are compared: i5-13400 versus i9-13900K. As even with Intel you cannot reach frequencies of 3000MHz with the memory controller, all tests with DDR5 are done only with Gear 2 (for 6000MHz, the memory controller reaches 1500MHz). Only for DDR4 you can use Gear 1. The difference between Gear 1 and 2 is not the writing/reading/copying speed, here the impact is minimal. The big impact is on latency.

----------------------------------------
Moderator's statement (link):
View attachment 314385
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And the comparison between Gear 1 and 2 on my system. It is clear where the losers are.
View attachment 314386View attachment 314387

In conclusion, please avoid contradicting someone on subjects that you do not master.

You rock

 

[Speedyblupi]

I bought a 5800X3D earlier today.
It arrives in 2 days.
I put myself down as using it even though I don't actually have it yet.

 

[Valentine]

Still rolling on this 10900f, I regret the F part but that's about it.

Given my monitor, any top-end gpu that I could buy in the next 5 years will probably be a bottleneck at 4k-like resolutions.

A platform upgrade will probably be due when I get 4k 240hz monitor, and that'll only happen when they get common enough that multiple brands have them.

 

[Keullo-e]

Will be using a "classic" Ryzen in the future as well, ordered a 5800X as is was on sale (190EUR).

 

[Mussels]

I understood very well, but you don't get the ideas.
For overclocking, chipset B motherboards are not good because they primarily block CPU overclocking. They are an option only if you are not interested in overclocking, but in system stability.
What you didn't understand and still don't is that DDR5 only works on the Gear 2. It's one of the reasons why a processor with DDR4 RAM memories clocked at 3600MHz achieves the same performance as the same processor with DDR5 RAM memories clocked at 5600MHz. We are talking strictly about gaming and with very powerful video cards.
In short, where you see DDR5 6000 (obtained only with Gear 2 because Gear 1 far exceeds the limits of the controller) the frequency of the memory controller is the same as when using DDR4 at 3000 MHz.

My locked processor allows me 3600MHz Gear 1, equivalent to 7200MHz Gear 2.
Where you see DDR4 4400MHz, these frequencies are possible by pushing the voltages to very dangerous values and the stability also suffers. They are for exposure on forums, not for intense activity and online games where a reset destroys your work.

As an idea, the voltage of the memory controller and the RAM memories are also unlocked on chipset B motherboards. So is the frequency of these RAM modules. I have 12500 and 13500 and both work perfectly with the memories clocked at 3600MHz Gear 1. I only tested the 12500 for a few days, but the 13500 runs stable as a rock since February. This is the memory limit, I don't know if processors can do more, but I'm not interested in a 0.01% increase in performance and 1000% system instability.
On both processors, VDDQ TX Voltage (controller voltage) is set at 1.1V. The nominal voltage is 1.2V if XMP is not activated and 1.35V if it is activated.

I get the feeling i understand these ideas very well.
The gears is something where marketing names get in the way of the actual reality, like how corsair label all their RAM in MHz and not MT/s, which is actually illegal in many countries including australia.


When different brands and generations of the same brand change the meaning of the gears, you have to accept that i'm going to keep these explanations simplified with a gear 1/2 summary and not waste my time with DRAM ratios unless its specifically needed for what's being discussed.

My information comes from myself and from IR_cow, TPUs previous motherboard reviewer and current memory reviewer. I get the feeling he's ran into these limits a lot more than you have, he knows these problems well and it's why he's had to drop motherboard reviewing - the time needed to get most RAM kits working has gone up exponentially with DDR5, especially since intel have locked the SA voltage down so drastically.

 

[Gica]

My information comes from myself and from IR_cow, TPUs previous motherboard reviewer and current memory reviewer. I get the feeling he's ran into these limits a lot more than you have, he knows these problems well and it's why he's had to drop motherboard reviewing - the time needed to get most RAM kits working has gone up exponentially with DDR5, especially since intel have locked the SA voltage down so drastically.

Can you show me a single review with DDR5 6000 MHz Gear 1? Only one! It doesn't matter if it's TPU or another reviewer.
Until then, I give you the configuration used by TPU for 13400, 13600K, 13900K and 13900KS.
I repeat that you cannot use Gear 1 with DDR5, maybe only if you underclock the memories below 4400MHz. Understand that you have made a grave mistake and you are making an even graver mistake by insisting that white is black.

 

[Mussels]

You're pointing at Z790 boards with K CPUs and i'm telling you the problems are on B/H boards and non K CPUs.

You pay me for a 13th gen non-K CPU and i'll test it for you - theres a big difference between having knowledge of one combination of parts, and having more of them and talking to the experts who deal with the memory reviews here at TPU - these are also not something you should be derailing an AMD CPU thread about, because you're obsessed with intel being 'better'

 

[Gica]

Someone named Mussels is trying to deviate from a subject that he approached in ignorance of the cause.
Let us remind him that he claims that TPU tested the i5-13400 with DDR5 6000 Gear 2 because the non-K processors have the SA voltage blocked and that this is a tragedy. Mussels obviously does not know that the 12-13th processors, blocked or not, SA blocked or not, cannot use DDR5 memories with Gear 1.
.................................................................................
What Mussels says here (Sep 17, 2023):

"TPU has the 13400F here, but they test with DDR5 6000 on a Z board
TPU needed to run this in gear 2.
...
Comparing Gear 1 vs 2, same RAM - different CPU.
...
Same RAM, same board. The board name only changed because AIDA was updated to detect it correctly.
The memory latency is the same, verifying the actual RAM hasn't changed - but the read values for example are absolutely tanked by gear 2 - about a 7% loss. That 7% is a huge loss."
..................................................................................

Unfortunately, Mussels makes two serious errors:
1. He did not notice that both processors are tested with Gear 2 (I repeat that it is impossible to use Gear 1 at such frequencies even if you connect SA to a high voltage line)
2. The synthetic results in AIDA give different results for different processors, and the difference between 13400 and 13900K is huge.

Mussels cannot convince any Intel 12-13th owner with those pictures of motherboard boxes that he has relevant information about Intel processors, from their consumption in practice to their functionality. He is probably trying to convince some AMD owners who haven't had any contact with Intel since the Pentium II.

You pay me for a 13th gen non-K CPU and i'll test it for you

Why? I have two at home, each in their own system. And I need money because the 6-8KW (consumed monthly by the system with 12500) costs a fortune. One U.S. dollar!
I use 12500 since June 2022 (motherboard B) and 13500 (motherboard Z) since February 2023. Both use DDR4 (bought in 2020) at a maximum of 3600MHz Gear 1. Yes, for DDR4 you can use Gear 1 and 3600MHz is a respectable frequency for a non-k processor. I say maximum because 12500 switched to a "shameful" 2666MHz CL14 Gear 1 because it does not affect the applications run with it. To my shame, I didn't notice that for days I ran with 2133 CL16 RAM because I forgot to make the changes in the BIOS during an update.. The eye didn't notice the "huge" performance penalty, I detected it by mistake with the help of HWinfo or CPU-Z, it doesn't matter.

No choice, AMD or Intel, is wrong if they meet your needs. I keep repeating it because I don't understand what you are trying to prove by blaming a processor just because it belongs to the other manufacturer.

P.S. I followed the wattmeter as I wrote on the TPU forum (12500 + igp, 16GB RAM). Jumps between 24 and 35W with an approximate average of 27-28W. Will it be good?

12500 www only (youtube, forum, news, etc.). It's just a reply to the malicious statements that for an Intel you need solar panels. Statements made on this topic.

 

[Brendan9140]

I still have my 2600 from 2018, it’s definitely fallen off since I got it. Really eyeballing the 5600X3D though once I am able to, quite a feisty chip for $230