ATI HD5XXX Series Discussion

[a_ump]

lol but that would ruin the suspense . and i think even that could be considered a breach of the NDA. I wouldn't dout the actual agreement covers even saying that he has the cards. That's why he hasn't even stated that yet, he's only said he recieved some hardware and that the 23rd will be interesting. or something like that

 

[btarunr]

He could at least hint us to something, like saying the cards are better or worst than what everyone thinks...

He already did that:

stay tuned for the 23th .. amd got some exciting stuff

 

[a_ump]

which means that he was probly surprised by the card himself so ATI we can assume is on a the right track right now. ahhh can't wait to purchase my HD 5870

 

[largon]

there is .. any gpu has a limited number of ROPs which connect to a limited width memory interface.

Of course. BUT considering the fact my reply countered this:

I don't think gdr5 supports 512bit just yet.

My point stands. The only requirement is a sufficient die dize to fit the numerous amount of I/O pads for 512bit GDDR5, and ROPs - unless the chip has a ringbus.

 

[djisas]

Of course. BUT considering the fact my reply countered this:
My point stands.

If you right and GDR5 does not support 512bit (could it be really limited to only 256?? I've a felling that it isnt true...) thats a bottleneck for nvidea massive gpu, maybe, but if they end up using it then they will have a massive memory bw, providing it gives them that much advantage over 256bit...
When we get to hear anything about it well see...

 

[erocker]

Are we speaking about a 512 bit bus on the 58XX series?

 

[Wile E]

If you right and GDR5 does not support 512bit (could it be really limited to only 256?? I've a felling that it isnt true...) thats a bottleneck for nvidea massive gpu, maybe, but if they end up using it then they will have a massive memory bw, providing it gives them that much advantage over 256bit...
When we get to hear anything about it well see...

No, he said that the memory used does not care about bus width. The only thing that effects bus width is the GPU design itself.

 

[largon]

And die size. Or rather, the length of the perimeter, that is, the outer edge of the chip. IO pins can only be placed on the edge so a 512bit bus requires a big die to have enough perimeter. GDDR5 especially, requires a big die as the chips have 25% more pins compared to GDDR3/4. Even RV870 with it's over 300mm² size is simply too small for a 512bit bus - but I'm sure nV has no problems creating a die big enough.

I reckon that after GT300 there will be some time before another chip that swings a 512bit'er come around, as once differentially clocked GDDR5 comes around, operating frequencies will go right through the roof. We'll be seeing GDDR5 DDR-10000, in 2010... No need for huge bus width.

 

[djisas]

No, he said that the memory used does not care about bus width. The only thing that effects bus width is the GPU design itself.

My mistake then...
But someone said that, one or two pages ago i think, i thought it was him...

 

[largon]

That was pantherx12. I didn't agree.

 

[Reventon]

So will getting another 4850 be better than getting a 58XX?

 

[grunt_408]

So will getting another 4850 be better than getting a 58XX?

Dosnt look like it. Wont be long and you will be wanting DX11 aswell

 

[djisas]

So will getting another 4850 be better than getting a 58XX?

You better wait, the 5850 will probably be faster than a 4850 x2 config for 299, if you could sell yours for anything close to 100 that would be good, but then again with just that 100$ you get close to 5850 performance without dx11...

 

[YinYang.ERROR]

grumble grumble... anyone know if there will be any other HD5 cards(maybe 5770/5750?!) out by December?

 

[djisas]

Those two will soon follow after the cypress, those are the juniper cards...

 

[YinYang.ERROR]

Those two will soon follow after the cypress, those are the juniper cards...

great news! I hope they are better than the HD4870.

I can't pay $300+ for a video card without family trying to kill me.

 

[djisas]

They are coming to replace the R770 cards and they will still be a lot faster than them...

 

[Gradius2]

great news! I hope they are better than the HD4870.

I can't pay $300+ for a video card without family trying to kill me.

HD5870 will be $299:
http://www.techpowerup.com/102342/Radeon_HD_5870_Aggressively_Priced_Report.html

Then it will go down in couple months.

 

[DarkEgo]

HD5870 will be $299:
http://www.techpowerup.com/102342/Radeon_HD_5870_Aggressively_Priced_Report.html

Then it will go down in couple months.

I am pretty sure they bumped the price up to $399 for 5870 and $299 for a 5850.

 

[a_ump]

I am pretty sure they bumped the price up to $399 for 5870 and $299 for a 5850.

yep: HD 5870 2gb/$449, HD 5870 1gb/$399, HD 5850/$299 are the expected and current MSRP's as far as we know. and i agree with the suspicion that the HD 5850 will be faster than the HD 4850x2, i personally think its going to be on par with the HD 4870x2 and the HD 5870 on par with the GTX 295 or better.

 

[TheMailMan78]

yep: HD 5870 2gb/$449, HD 5870 1gb/$399, HD 5850/$299 are the expected and current MSRP's as far as we know. and i agree with the suspicion that the HD 5850 will be faster than the HD 4850x2, i personally think its going to be on par with the HD 4870x2 and the HD 5870 on par with the GTX 295 or better.

I REALLY hope you're right. The thought of that makes my willy stiff like camels neck.

 

[a_ump]

I REALLY hope you're right. The thought of that makes my willy stiff like camels neck.

that leaked benchmark review of crysis with the HD 5870(even if it was oc'd) against HD 4890 xfire and a GTX 295 showed it being almost twice as fast as the GTX 295 in it and i thinks something like 25% faster than the HD 4890's. but then who knows coulda been fubar'd.

plus w1z said ATI has some exciting things come the 23rd which further backs my suspicion of the cards' performances.

 

[1Kurgan1]

that leaked benchmark review of crysis with the HD 5870(even if it was oc'd) against HD 4890 xfire and a GTX 295 showed it being almost twice as fast as the GTX 295 in it and i thinks something like 25% faster than the HD 4890's. but then who knows coulda been fubar'd.

plus w1z said ATI has some exciting things come the 23rd which further backs my suspicion of the cards' performances.

It's hard to compare 2x vs 1x though as the second card will scale lower. Thats the reason 3x 285's beat out 2x 295's (In gaming), better scaling since less GPU's even though the end power is most likely a bit less.

 

[Bo_Fox]

there is .. any gpu has a limited number of ROPs which connect to a limited width memory interface.

Thanks.. I guess it could be a suggestion that with the ringbus-less architecture ATI has right now, doubling the number of ROP's is one of the requirements for a 512-bit bus, if it's possible with GDDR5 anyways..

By the way, what's your favorite game for testing/benchmarking a 5870 right now? Just curious..

Of course. BUT considering the fact my reply countered this:
My point stands. The only requirement is a sufficient die dize to fit the numerous amount of I/O pads for 512bit GDDR5, and ROPs - unless the chip has a ringbus.

Hmm, ATI could re-introduce a ring-bus architecture as easily as they removed it after going back to 256-bit architecture with RV670 series. With the GPU rotated at 45 degrees once again like the HD 2900XT (most likely due to a high number of I/O pads that need an optimized re-routing of the traces), and 32 ROPs, I'm just guessing that there's a possibility that ATI could be planning a 512-bit version using 16 memory chips. At least Nvidia has already shown a scalable architecture that scales with the number of memory chips and ROPs. I just do not see why GDDR5 memory would be designed in such a way that does not allow for a 512-bit bus to be used with it in the first place???

 

[a_ump]

Hmm, ATI could re-introduce a ring-bus architecture as easily as they removed it after going back to 256-bit architecture with RV670 series. With the GPU rotated at 45 degrees once again like the HD 2900XT (most likely due to a high number of I/O pads that need an optimized re-routing of the traces), and 32 ROPs, I'm just guessing that there's a possibility that ATI could be planning a 512-bit version using 16 memory chips. At least Nvidia has already shown a scalable architecture that scales with the number of memory chips and ROPs. I just do not see why GDDR5 memory would be designed in such a way that does not allow for a 512-bit bus to be used with it in the first place???

i thought w1z kinda clarified that memory bus width isn't limited by memory chips but the number of ROP's. I personally don't think they went 512-bit via ring bus for the HD 5870 as every rumor released so far has stated a 256-bit. Though i could see them using one when GT300 is released to help compete.