Banking PIN to be "obsolete in 5 years"

qubit · Nov 21, 2015

The "problem" with PINs is basically user error rather than a problem with the system itself. Let's hope these new methods don't actually result in more fraud. Also, the article doesn't say about online shopping which doesn't use PINs.

The Pin number will vanish within the next five years as banks replace the four-digit password with new technology that reads your fingerprints, vein pattern or voice, according to experts.

Banks will nudge customers to use hi-tech readers or contactless payments in shops and ticket terminals instead of the typical "chip and Pin" by arguing it is safer and offering discounts for using the new technology.

Major banks, including Halifax and Barclays, argue that Pins are a "flawed" security barrier that fail to protect against fraud.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/pins-obsolete-within-five-years-191118808.html

CAPSLOCKSTUCK · Nov 21, 2015

Being realistic, the tech should have changed to fingerprint or iris readers years ago.

R-T-B · Nov 21, 2015

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:
Being realistic, the tech should have changed to fingerprint or iris readers years ago.

Being realistic, I think this is a terrible idea as not only are those relatively easy to lift from the sensor and then replicate (at least with fingerprints, mythbusters did this), but speaking from experience, fingerprints change slightly with age. I'm not sure if modern readers take that into account, but my mom's old thinkpads reader certainly does not, and eventually refused her finger 9/10 times, requiring re-enrollment. This took 10 years granted (my mom has an old Thinkpad, T60) but point stands.

qubit · Nov 21, 2015

R-T-B said:
but speaking from experience, fingerprints change slightly with age.

I didn't know that. Every article I've ever read simply says that they're unique, without addressing this point. It would be interesting to know in exactly what way they change, which I guess is due to the aging process.

Frick · Nov 21, 2015

qubit said:
I didn't know that. Every article I've ever read simply says that they're unique, without addressing this point. It would be interesting to know in exactly what way they change, which I guess is due to the aging process.

Makes sense, everything else change when we age.

I generally do find them finicky though. Not to mention some people have like scrambled fingerprints making them hard for readers. Like how some people simply can't use their thumbs on the readers some phones have.

R-T-B · Nov 21, 2015

qubit said:
I didn't know that. Every article I've ever read simply says that they're unique, without addressing this point. It would be interesting to know in exactly what way they change, which I guess is due to the aging process.

I don't actually know it either, other than the fact I experienced something that could only be explained by that.

CAPSLOCKSTUCK · Nov 21, 2015

Perhaps DNA is the way to go

"Glory" hole in the wall machine ?

R-T-B · Nov 21, 2015

I'm skeptical anyways. Heck, it took them pretty much until now to get rid of all the OS/2 based ATMs, and they seriously think they can phase something out in five years?

AsRock · Nov 21, 2015

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:
Being realistic, the tech should have changed to fingerprint or iris readers years ago.

Yeah sure pain for those who do really dirty jobs and don't get truly clean until they get home. I am sure those scanners would just love paint.

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:
Perhaps DNA is the way to go

"Glory" hole in the wall machine ?

Aaah yes, the new way to spread HIV AWESOME, Or getting your finger cut off J/K or am i ?.

Best to stay how it is as their is away around the other, their always is. And in banks interest better making you the flaw mentally than physically, Sure going by eye yeah sure just what i need some one smashing my head up against a machine or worse.

RejZoR · Nov 21, 2015

All other methods are stupid. DNA, voice and fingerprints are something you leave all over the place. How the hell they consider this as good security is beyond me. PIN code is something only you and no one else knows. So, what method is better, the one where you're leaving your "password/pin" all over the world or the one only you memorized?

Mr.Scott · Nov 21, 2015

Oh yes, let's give everybody in the world access to our fingerprints. Hmmm...... what could the government or any third world country do with those? :rolleyes:

Stupid idea.

dorsetknob · Nov 21, 2015

As far as i am aware a good percentage of US cards still rely on that magnetic strip and have yet to implement chip and pin
Maybe thats changed in the last couple of years

64K · Nov 21, 2015

I'm sure my fingerprints are in law enforcement databases everywhere already. When I lived in Georgia you had to submit all 10 of your fingerprints just to get a drivers license. They swore that people's fingerprints wouldn't be sent to law enforcement databases but I would bet they did.

Something interesting and imo a better alternative to fingerprint verification is what my bank is doing. They will soon no longer require a signature each time a customer accesses their safe deposit box. They will be implementing an iris scanner.

dorsetknob said:
As far as i am aware a good percentage of US cards still rely on that magnetic strip and have yet to implement chip and pin
Maybe thats changed in the last couple of years

One of my credit cards has a chip. I don't know how widely it's in use here in the USA though but a guy I know that works in retail says it's going to be put into full use soon.

Mr.Scott · Nov 21, 2015

64K said:
One of my credit cards has a chip. I don't know how widely it's in use here in the USA though but a guy I know that works in retail says it's going to be put into full use soon.

Same as an enhanced driver's license here. Still optional, but not for long.
It can be tracked....in realtime. Invasion of privacy?

R-T-B · Nov 21, 2015

Mr.Scott said:
Same as an enhanced driver's license here. Still optional, but not for long.
It can be tracked....in realtime. Invasion of privacy?

I'm pretty sure those chips are standard RFIDs and can't be tracked beyond 1-2 feet away.

dorsetknob · Nov 21, 2015

Chip and pin only can be tracked if card is in reader machine same as magnetic stripe
your probably getting confused with the NEW contactless payment cards which have a RFID chip installed as well

you can specify to your bank whether you need/ want contactless payment feature and they will supply card with/without RFID chip

rooivalk · Nov 21, 2015

It's more dangerous.

In case of robbery, all you have to do is telling them the PIN and ATM machine can't give them more than specified max per day.
Now, the robbers would drag you to ATM machine in quiet place and potentially do more harm to you.
Mind you, a lot of criminals do drugs or alchohol before executing their plan to give them some boost of confidence.

dorsetknob · Nov 21, 2015

Dear insurance company

with reference to my claim for loss of finger /eye due to criminals amputating said orgen after i was mugged for my new fingerprint /iris enabled credit/debit card............................................... :mad:

P4-630 · Nov 21, 2015

dorsetknob said:
NEW contactless payment cards which have a RFID chip installed as well
you can specify to your bank whether you need/ want contactless payment feature and they will supply card with/without RFID chip

I had one for a while but I went back to a regular card since I don't like the idea that if you lost it, someone else can shop with your card.

Edit: I don't mind using a PIN at ATM machine or PIN at a store.

dorsetknob · Nov 21, 2015

Here in Britain there is a £20 MAX usage limit or something similar

The paranoid suggest you need a Faraday cage style wallet one day

P4-630 · Nov 21, 2015

dorsetknob said:
Here in Britain there is a £20 MAX usage limit or something similar

The paranoid suggest you need a Faraday cage style wallet one day

lol, who knows

Aquinus · Nov 21, 2015

R-T-B said:
I'm pretty sure those chips are standard RFIDs and can't be tracked beyond 1-2 feet away.

Passive tags need to use the received radio signal as a power source to re-transmit its ID. As a result, any passive RFID tag will have a transmission range that is less than the power of the reader. Plus, there is a limit to how much that tag can transmit, so it's not like you can just crank up the power level of the reader to extend its range. It's not unreasonable to build RFID tags that operate within 10cm.

Consider EZ-Pass and other wireless toll payment systems. Almost all of those RFID tags are active or semi-active. The RFIDs in debit/credit cards, keys, and anti-theft stuff is going to be passive because it has to be small and it has to last and anything with a battery is bulky or doesn't last long.

Either way, I think criminals will still find a way to get around it. I think the question though is how much would such changes deter them and how much more harm does it put cardholders at if extraordinary measures need to be taken by the criminal?

Blue-Knight · Nov 21, 2015

qubit said:
Banking PIN to be "obsolete in 5 years"

Banks themselves are already obsolete.

And this is not new. :shadedshu:

RealNeil · Nov 21, 2015

We have two cards that have the chips in them.
So I bought some little-shielded sleeves for us to keep them in.
They block their being read on the sly.

We have no problem remembering to use them either.
We were hit by hackers that drained one of our accounts years ago, and we had to fight to get our $3,700.00 back.
What a PITA that was,............

Ebo · Nov 21, 2015

we have those contactless creditcards allready, no need for a pincode, no need for a slit to run it through, just hold it up, and the store receives payment right away.

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Banking PIN to be "obsolete in 5 years"

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit

CAPSLOCKSTUCK

Spaced Out Lunar Tick

R-T-B

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop

R-T-B

CAPSLOCKSTUCK

Spaced Out Lunar Tick

R-T-B

AsRock

TPU addict

RejZoR

Mr.Scott

dorsetknob

"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"

64K

Mr.Scott

R-T-B

dorsetknob

"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"

rooivalk

dorsetknob

"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"

P4-630

dorsetknob

"YOUR RMA REQUEST IS CON-REFUSED"

P4-630

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man

Blue-Knight

RealNeil

Ebo

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