Nicolas Guerin (From Ubisoft) is not in touch with reality.

[RCoon]

"At Ubisoft for a long time we wanted to push 60 fps. I don't think it was a good idea because you don't gain that much from 60 fps and it doesn't look like the real thing. It's a bit like The Hobbit movie, it looked really weird.

"And in other games it's the same - like the Rachet and Clank series [where it was dropped]. So I think collectively in the video game industry we're dropping that standard because it's hard to achieve, it's twice as hard as 30fps, and its not really that great in terms of rendering quality of the picture and the image."

SOURCE

I think we should start a petition. Mandatory assisted suicide for all those that think 30FPS 900p is "a better experience" than 1080p 60FPS.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I think "collectively" those in the video game industry are actually lazy, and are tired of producing games at two different quality levels, because even now, the "next gen" consoles can't perform at the level of PC's.

 

[64K]

"At Ubisoft for a long time we wanted to push 60 fps. I don't think it was a good idea because you don't gain that much from 60 fps and it doesn't look like the real thing. It's a bit like The Hobbit movie, it looked really weird.

"And in other games it's the same - like the Rachet and Clank series [where it was dropped]. So I think collectively in the video game industry we're dropping that standard because it's hard to achieve, it's twice as hard as 30fps, and its not really that great in terms of rendering quality of the picture and the image."

SOURCE

I think we should start a petition. Mandatory assisted suicide for all those that think 30FPS 900p is "a better experience" than 1080p 60FPS.

Agreed. Bethesda is pulling that 30 FPS crap with The Evil Within PC version too. Saying they don't condone removing the frame cap and won't support it. It's nothing but catering to the console crowd where most consoles can't run high quality games at 1080p at 60 FPS.

 

[RCoon]

those in the video game industry are actually lazy

In a recent interview with another fella from Ubi, they said that the processor inside the next gen consoles was holding them back from going to town with processor related adventures. I get the impression that A) developers are getting more and more cheap, and B) the so called "next-gen" consoles really can't handle "next-gen" titles very well.


"Technically we're CPU-bound," he said. "The GPUs are really powerful, obviously the graphics look pretty good, but it's the CPU [that] has to process the AI, the number of NPCs we have on screen, all these systems running in parallel.

"We were quickly bottlenecked by that and it was a bit frustrating, because we thought that this was going to be a tenfold improvement over everything AI-wise, and we realised it was going to be pretty hard. It's not the number of polygons that affect the framerate. We could be running at 100fps if it was just graphics, but because of AI, we're still limited to 30 frames per second."

SOURCE

 

[rtwjunkie]

Agreed. Bethesda is pulling that 30 FPS crap with The Evil Within PC version too. Saying they don't condone removing the frame cap and won't support it. It's nothing but catering to the console crowd where most consoles can't run high quality games at 1080p at 60 FPS.

You beat me to it! I was going to edit mine and add the latest Bethesda BS.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

Actually its not so far fetched

Total War games have issues with this on PC the animations stutter or soldiers slide around the screen because the CPU is a bottleneck. The game is running at 60-90 fps in terms of render but yea CPU side it has issues

So it very well could be that console wise graphically the games run fine but due to low clock speed and AMD's lacluster IPC they are encountering issues. Granted its no excuse for a limited Frame rate on PC but its very likely the AMD CPU is causing an issue with development. Much like how the Wii U CPU was considered weak the AMD cpu is much the same. More cores but lower clock speed with I am guessing similar IPC to the older PS3 and 360 CPUs per core. Think of it like Phenom II vs FX series the Phenom II did better than FX in IPC but more cores ment better multi threaded performance.

Multithreading the AI etc can be extremely problematic. So its very likely this is the resulting issue and its now become a crutch an excuse they rely on.

 

[newconroer]

Agreed. Bethesda is pulling that 30 FPS crap with The Evil Within PC version too. Saying they don't condone removing the frame cap and won't support it. It's nothing but catering to the console crowd where most consoles can't run high quality games at 1080p at 60 FPS.

Wouldn't higher hz monitors help make 30fps look a lot smoother, or is there a minimum limit to the benefits?

 

[Hilux SSRG]

I remember when specs were leaking for the XBONE and PS4 and I thought really that's all they are going to push on the CPU, GPU, and Memory?

I think console buyers would have gladly paid an extra $100 to have solid 60fps 1080p, but the economy tanked and MS & Sony settled for mediocre.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Actually its not so far fetched

Total War games have issues with this on PC the animations stutter or soldiers slide around the screen because the CPU is a bottleneck. The game is running at 60-90 fps in terms of render but yea CPU side it has issues

So it very well could be that console wise graphically the games run fine but due to low clock speed and AMD's lacluster IPC they are encountering issues. Granted its no excuse for a limited Frame rate on PC but its very likely the AMD CPU is causing an issue with development. Much like how the Wii U CPU was considered weak the AMD cpu is much the same. More cores but lower clock speed with I am guessing similar IPC to the older PS3 and 360 CPUs per core. Think of it like Phenom II vs FX series the Phenom II did better than FX in IPC but more cores ment better multi threaded performance.

Multithreading the AI etc can be extremely problematic. So its very likely this is the resulting issue and its now become a crutch an excuse they rely on.

I totally agree with you on something like the Total War games with are so very CPU-intensive. My issue though is to get this excuse on console ports of FPS and RPG for instance. After all, aren't the games DEVELOPED on PC's, then ported over to console? Why can't the PC version get....the PC version....since it already exists?

 

[64K]

Wouldn't higher hz monitors help make 30fps look a lot smoother, or is there a minimum limit to the benefits?

I don't know. I don't remember ever running across that in any articles. That doesn't mean it's not true though.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

problem is with how things are coded.

Did people already Forget the Crysis 3 issue where the ROPE physics only updated every other frame? So the frame rate would be cut in half in certain scenes. the way things are coded has a huge impact.

People forget every game engine out there is ANCIENT its using old tech old code old ways of doing things they are patchwork quilts of broken code fixed with bandaids.

Only ONE game engine is currently mostly new ground up ands thats the one used In Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeros / Phantom Pain.

Cryengine is a continuation
Gamebryo / Creation w.e same engine since 2001
Unreal Engine is a continuation
Id Tech is a continuation

most game engines are just old shit adapted for new systems, OSes etc.

even Kojima's new engine borrows a few parts from the older engine used on PS3 however most of it was rewritten due to the PS3s terrible architecture and lackluster compatibility with modern systems and operating systems which is why its mostly new.

Everything else today is just old shit with fresh paint. You can only do that for so long before problems arise. You are now seeing what happens when tech is carried over to many times for to long.

From the way AI is coded and handled to the way physics are calculated we use old methods on new hardware with new stuff bolted on. Because the gaming industry hasn't actually evolved we are hitting a new issue.

On 360 / PS3 yes they held back advances not so much on PC but the entire industry because for so long it was the status quo. With lackluster hardware that status quo remains while they try to push things ever further. As a result it all falls apart.

Basically since console gens are stable they basically do R&D then recycle till next gen. Except for the PS4 and Xbone they didnt really do much in terms of R&D they just continued the recycle trend.

A good example

Look at the early days of Direct X / Open GL and PS1 to PS2 to PS3 which each major leap R&D into new methods was common place however that has pretty much stopped. PS1 to PS2 huge leap PS2 to PS3 huge leap PS3 to PS4 not such a huge leap. More memory more GPU power but CPU performance is lacking. For those that keep claiming CPU is not important DX12 will fix it or Mantle will thats not the case. Because those APIs do not fix the console CPU bottleneck. As such your gonna keep getting bent over for another generation.

Notice after Multi-core tech debuted for games the industry kinda went to hell in a handbasket. No one has effectively figured out how to multi thread each task.

multi threaded AI is difficult if no impossible to multi thread well without crazy shit happening just look at the Elder Scrolls and its Radiant AI now imagine if thats multi-threaded and starts to conflict? Developers havent found a good way around this yet. Its why so much stuff in games is directly scripted etc still.

Untill a proper way to multi thread these things comes about low clock speed lock IPC high core count CPUs will continue to suck ass for gaming.

 

[Frick]

I'm sort of happy about this, because nerd rage is the funniest rage.

I'd be fine with any graphics if the games were worth it, but they rarely are.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

In fact if someone on here has an FX 8350 go ahead and downclock it to 1.2 GHz see how well it performs in games. Especially when it comes to minimum frame rate

 

[64K]

My take on Ubisoft in general is that they are primarily a console publisher. That's their bread and butter. That's where they make most of their money. They are going to make games look and run their best on the consoles first and the PC version will usually just be an afterthought. Remember they consider 95% of PC Gamers to be pirates anyway.

I'm sort of happy about this, because nerd rage is the funniest rage.

I'd be fine with any graphics if the games were worth it, but they rarely are.

Google "Call of Duty rage quit" if you want to see some hilarious nerd rage videos.

 

[Brusfantomet]

problem is with how things are coded.

Did people already Forget the Crysis 3 issue where the ROPE physics only updated every other frame? So the frame rate would be cut in half in certain scenes. the way things are coded has a huge impact.

People forget every game engine out there is ANCIENT its using old tech old code old ways of doing things they are patchwork quilts of broken code fixed with bandaids.

Only ONE game engine is currently mostly new ground up ands thats the one used In Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeros / Phantom Pain.

Cryengine is a continuation
Gamebryo / Creation w.e same engine since 2001
Unreal Engine is a continuation
Id Tech is a continuation

most game engines are just old shit adapted for new systems, OSes etc.

even Kojima's new engine borrows a few parts from the older engine used on PS3 however most of it was rewritten due to the PS3s terrible architecture and lackluster compatibility with modern systems and operating systems which is why its mostly new.

Everything else today is just old shit with fresh paint. You can only do that for so long before problems arise. You are now seeing what happens when tech is carried over to many times for to long.

From the way AI is coded and handled to the way physics are calculated we use old methods on new hardware with new stuff bolted on. Because the gaming industry hasn't actually evolved we are hitting a new issue.

On 360 / PS3 yes they held back advances not so much on PC but the entire industry because for so long it was the status quo. With lackluster hardware that status quo remains while they try to push things ever further. As a result it all falls apart.

Basically since console gens are stable they basically do R&D then recycle till next gen. Except for the PS4 and Xbone they didnt really do much in terms of R&D they just continued the recycle trend.

A good example

Look at the early days of Direct X / Open GL and PS1 to PS2 to PS3 which each major leap R&D into new methods was common place however that has pretty much stopped. PS1 to PS2 huge leap PS2 to PS3 huge leap PS3 to PS4 not such a huge leap. More memory more GPU power but CPU performance is lacking. For those that keep claiming CPU is not important DX12 will fix it or Mantle will thats not the case. Because those APIs do not fix the console CPU bottleneck. As such your gonna keep getting bent over for another generation.

Notice after Multi-core tech debuted for games the industry kinda went to hell in a handbasket. No one has effectively figured out how to multi thread each task.

multi threaded AI is difficult if no impossible to multi thread well without crazy shit happening just look at the Elder Scrolls and its Radiant AI now imagine if thats multi-threaded and starts to conflict? Developers havent found a good way around this yet. Its why so much stuff in games is directly scripted etc still.

Untill a proper way to multi thread these things comes about low clock speed lock IPC high core count CPUs will continue to suck ass for gaming.

Then again, multi threaded code with dependencies are hard to code. Intel came with some atomic actions in Haswell or something, that Would help a bit (not so many mutexes). Then there is Amdals law and all that. But for advenced AI the extra cores shuld be nice, since you then can give AI its own core, or even just have a few of AI threads on one core, but what do i know, i haven't made any AI programs.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

In fact if someone on here has an FX 8350 go ahead and downclock it to 1.2 GHz see how well it performs in games. Especially when it comes to minimum frame rate

I think you're absolutely right. 4 modules (8 threads) at 1.2 GHz is very bad, especially for single-threaded work loads like AI generally is. I think this is going to force developers to develop SMT AIs and, although that sucks in the short term, it is amaze-bawls in the long term. Think of how complex an AI could be if it was coded for SMT? More intelligent & aware AI on a 16-core machine compared to a 4-core machine? Hell yes!

I think AMD's lackluster performance is going to finally get us engines for the computing future (parallel, not linear).

 

[BiggieShady]

I always imagine company meeting where project lead says "But guys, we can skip months of optimization completely if we drop to 30fps 900p. Just tell PR guys to keep saying it's for a better experience. Now we can meet the deadline. Problem solved (opens bottle of tequila)."

 

[droopyRO]

I hope they dont apply the same "mentality" with PC ports. But coming from Ubisoft i can expect anything.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Ubisoft PC ports are generally very good. The only problem Ubisoft has really had was using the most strict DRM available (Tages, Star-Force) and never patching it out.

 

[RejZoR]

Just don't buy their shit games. Who needs petitions, let your wallet do the talking. My life is just fine by entirely ignoring their games. I have and still buy all those pre UPlay games that i don't yet own and that were actually very good, but i just don't bother with the new ones. Let them have their moronic client and their 30fps...

 

[Frag_Maniac]

As implied above, this is merely a lazy, one size fits all performance scheme where PC is brought down to console level because they no longer want to take the time to give the PC version separate optimization. More recently, in their wanting to boost console sales by leveling the playing field, it kills two birds with one stone for them.

I hate devs like this with a passion. Nothing but lies and BS excuses. The greedy, lazy bastards. They have no business even working in the gaming industry. And more often than not these are studio leads promoted up by the publishing side of big pub/dev teams, and the guys with the real talent and creativity at the dev end get held back by it.

It would serve them right if the more talented devs left and formed their own team, or went to join a team who's leaders actually DO care about PC gaming. We on PC have been taken on an emotional roller coaster ride ever since the so called "next gen" came about. At first it was all about how PC sales were about to eclipse console sales. But what good is it if they want to make PC games look like console games?

 

[uuuaaaaaa]

"Technically we're CPU-bound," he said. "The GPUs are really powerful, obviously the graphics look pretty good, but it's the CPU [that] has to process the AI, the number of NPCs we have on screen, all these systems running in parallel.

"We were quickly bottlenecked by that and it was a bit frustrating, because we thought that this was going to be a tenfold improvement over everything AI-wise, and we realised it was going to be pretty hard. It's not the number of polygons that affect the framerate. We could be running at 100fps if it was just graphics, but because of AI, we're still limited to 30 frames per second."

In fact if someone on here has an FX 8350 go ahead and downclock it to 1.2 GHz see how well it performs in games. Especially when it comes to minimum frame rate

This is why Mantle exists.

 

[cadaveca]

This is why Mantle exists.

Where's the AAA titles using it, and benefitting?


THAT is why "Mantle exists", and frankly, I don't see it doing that much. Why that is... I am not sure.

 

[buildzoid]

Where's the AAA titles using it, and benefitting?


THAT is why "Mantle exists", and frankly, I don't see it doing that much. Why that is... I am not sure.

Mantle doesn't exist for consoles because mantle is supposed to be get the dev closer to the metal however consoles are already close to the metal so they don't need mantle. However this AI being too slow makes me wonder why they couldn't try throwing some of the AI related calculations on the GPU since they obviously have plenty of excess power there.

 

[Chetkigaming]

120 fps or GTFO.