exposing nVidia's latest ploy

[EarthDog]

9/11 was a government conspiracy.

We never landed on the moon.

The earth is flat.

Why the he'll is this trollololol thread still exist? I need to lock you and this nividia fanboy at my home site in a room... Hopefully you two just cancel each other out. Get a clue... Then maybe a grip.

 

[Sempron Guy]

all I see is a conspiracy theory which got a lot amazing responses by a lot of amd haters.

 

[cadaveca]

9/11 was a government conspiracy.
We never landed on the moon.
The earth is flat.
Why the he'll is this trollololol thread still exist? I need to lock you and this nividia fanboy at my home site in a room... Hopefully you two just cancel each other out. Get a clue... Then maybe a grip.

Meh. It's still an interesting conversation, anyway. Like, to me, I hear "Oh, those sly guys at NVidia have capitalized on how the market is, but long-term, might not offer that much for the end consumer with these current products".

Well, that's true, basically.

And still, we know that NVidia is working on VOLTA, and that's truly the next big thing. So, NVidia got some fab time, made the best of it, and fixed their power consumption., That's cool. No more forward-looking DX benefits is fine by me.

However, without that OP's opinion here, we wouldn't be talking about it in the first place. Those of us that wanted GTX970/980, and would actually buy, already have, mostly. Myself, I have 3x 780 TI, and need nothing more. But if offered 970's to replace those 780's, I might hop on the opportunity to save on my power bill, and have a quieter, less hot system.

You are making it seem like something more than it really is, IMHO.

all I see is a conspiracy theory which got a lot amazing responses by a lot of amd haters.

No AMD haters here, really. AMD doesn't really offer that much for the consumer on the CPU front ,and NVidia truly has the price/performance crown. Oh well.

 

[EarthDog]

The good news is, the first reply to that post said what I wanted it to say... "Making it seem like more than it is". That is the most pc reply to the first post I have.

It's sensationalism at best. I mean, I can't make a leap of faith even on some of the talking points they seem so outlandish to me.

 

[Fluffmeister]

all I see is a conspiracy theory which got a lot amazing responses by a lot of amd haters.

Like an AMD Sempron CPU, your calculations are late to the party.

(just messing)

Meh. It's still an interesting conversation, anyway. Like, to me, I hear "Oh, those sly guys at NVidia have capitalized on how the market is, but long-term, might not offer that much for the end consumer with these current products".

Well, that's true, basically.

And still, we know that NVidia is working on VOLTA, and that's truly the next big thing. So, NVidia got some fab time, made the best of it, and fixed their power consumption., That's cool. No more forward-looking DX benefits is fine by me.

However, without that OP's opinion here, we wouldn't be talking about it in the first place. Those of us that wanted GTX970/980, and would actually buy, already have, mostly. Myself, I have 3x 780 TI, and need nothing more. But if offered 970's to replace those 780's, I might hop on the opportunity to save on my power bill, and have a quieter, less hot system.

You are making it seem like something more than it really is, IMHO.

It isn't that interesting really, Maxwell is fab and clearly plenty are in denial about it.

As for Mantle, it's success is purely in AMD's hands, they either want to share it as promised or try to keep it as some sort of advantage over their competition (yes competition ladies) until DX12 arrives.

The conflict of interest is delicious to me however.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

I don't see any reason for AMD to have to. For what, 5K? ROFL.

The market is STAGNANT. Nvidia simply made a new GPU, that lowered power consumption due to efficiency, on the same node. Sounds like TSMC fixed their toolset, to me, and nothing else. AMD will bring something relevant...when it's actually needed. Until then, they keep selling what they got, like with their CPUs, until something substantially affects their sales, and they have inventory piling up, which isn't likely to happen any time soon.

This whole thread seems to be FILLED with armchair comments, by people that don't understand business, nor the silicon market as it stand right now... which is a stand-still.



And your point is....that it works as it should?

I wasn't 100% serious. but okay.

 

[anubis44]

keller is a idiot and raja is isn't any better

So, the man who designed the AMD Athlon 64 is an 'idiot', eh? Hmm... I guess you do have to be pretty stupid to be able to engineer an x86 processor that's faster than Intel's best at the time.

dude give it a rest nobody cares about shit intel did 10 years ago AMD are guilty of the same shit on the gpu side of things again when you own the market you are entitled todo whatever you want the only one at fault is amd for not keeping up with the competition. I really couldn't give two fucks about corporate policy performance is king so are results

Well, beyond the obvious fact that, since I give a shit what intel did 10 years ago, your statement that 'nobody' cares is demonstrably false, I'd like to point out that nobody is telling you what to do. This thread was started by me as a means of striking up a discussion. I was interested to hear from anyone who had opinions or information which would support or refute my essential theory about the strategy behind nVidia's latest unusal product moves. If all you have to say is that you don't give any 'fucks about corporate policy', then clearly, you're in the wrong thread.

 

[HumanSmoke]

So, the man who designed the AMD Athlon 64 is an 'idiot', eh? Hmm... I guess you do have to be pretty stupid to be able to engineer an x86 processor that's faster than Intel's best at the time.

Keller wasn't the architect of K8, Fred Weber was.
Keller's main priority was HyperTransport.

EDIT: Here's a copy of the original press release from the 1999 Microprocessor Forum

For an AMD cheerleader you seem to have some significant gaps in your Sunnyvale knowledge base.

 

[eidairaman1]

Dude the Athlon 64 (10+ years ago when the chip launched) has passed a long time ago. AMD is just shuffling positions around instead of truly focusing on R&D, (the GPU part is). I even realize that AMD only focusing on their console chips and releasing APUs can only get them so far, they need to take PD/SR and fix a a lot of the latency issues, dedicate resources per core and also enable a means of sharing all resources across all cores. If a single threaded app is being used it has access to all resources and be able to switch on the fly, also increase the HT bus speed higher, perhaps put a larger lower latency L2 and L1 cache on the cpu.

 

[JTristam]

Now I understand why nVidia decided to release the GTX970 and 980 cards on 28nm early, instead of waiting for the next process node shrink to 20nm at TSM early next year, like they normally would, and why nVidia is suddenly, mysteriously charging a lot less for their hardware. And it has nothing to do with playing Santa Claus this year. More like they're playing Santa 'Clause.'

Here's my thinking. nVidia heard earlier this year that DX12 will not exist for Windows 7:

http://www.kitguru.net/gaming/devel...ently-directx-12-wont-be-coming-to-windows-7/

Since Mantle allows for most of the features of DX12 (ie. shed-loads of draw-calls without performance hit) without having to buy Windows 10, this means AMD Radeon users could stick with Windows 7 if a game has Mantle functionality, but nVidia users WOULD have to update. This would embarrass the hell out of nVida and invariably annoy nVidia card owners, who might even start pressuring nVidia to <gasp> support AMD's Mantle. Or worse, it might pursuade legions of buyers to go AMD in order to get Mantle support so they can keep Windows 7.

Seeing the potential danger of this situation, nVidia decided to pull out all the stops to boost their numbers of cards sold in the immediate term in order to lock in as many customers as possible for the big news hit (which is now) and hopefully, to get as many game developers to ignore Mantle as possible and not bother with a Mantle version of their upcoming DX12 game. This will also mean that more gamers will have to move to Windows 10 anyhow, so they can run DX12, which will reduce the relevance of Mantle.

If we spread the word about this nefarious scheme, we can head them off at the pass, as it were. Everybody who cares about no getting screwed over and forced to upgrade to Windows 10, just so they can play a game, should go forth unto all the tech websites and expose this insidious ploy before it can fully succeed.

Well, that's your thinking, lad. And not every chap is as delusional as you. Other than the spying/logging/tracking part (for feedback so we can improve the OS when necessary, they said) I don't see anything wrong with W10. Tried that one and liked it. So I don't see why I shouldn't upgrade (if it's going to be an upgrade). Besides, who gives a damn about Mantle and why people should/shouldn't stick with W7? NV is selling GTX 9xx series and they sell like hotcakes, good. People want to use Mantle, alright. My boss decided he won't upgrade to W10 until the first service pack is released, fine. I'm enjoying this game, great. Some people decide to skip 970/980 and wait for Ti variant, go ahead. Ubisoft kept telling their bollocks, whatever. And Dragon Age is queer, yeah I know that. So what's wrong? Nothing's wrong. Except you, the paranoid chap trying to steer people's life in your delusional way of thinking. Let people do what they want to do, lad. They're not fanboys like you and they have better things to do. And they understand what they do. You, you should get a life. And a job with decent paycheck. Or a girlfriend, perhaps? You don't need Mantle, you don't need Radeon, you don't need to stick with W7, you need serious help.

 

[Dbiggs9]

I will be happy to move to Windows 10, but i get unlimited keys. if i don't like it i will reinstall windows 7

 

[AsRock]

Too bad my GTX 980 is way faster and uses less power than my R9 290 does, by a lot. Also, Windows 10 may be a free upgrade for Windows 8 users anyway, but I'm guessing you're hanging on to 7 (I still use it on this 5820K/GTX 980 desktop for now, haven't bothered redoing it since early 2013.)

Also, DX12 exclusivity should be of little concern as there is plenty of DX11 and even DX10 hardware still around, even have a few friends with GTX 260s and Core 2 Duos still...

Yeah thing is 290 been out a year already so yeah it should be faster as it be pretty dumb if it wasn't now huh.

I have always said if nvida/intel gave 2 fucks about amd they would price them out of existence
if they dropped the 970 to say ~250.00
if intel dropped the price of the 4670k to ~180.00
it would be over for AMD they would be kaput inside a year there overhead and costs are continuous bleeding of money it would be a disaster

They could, although the question is why don't they.

 

[HumanSmoke]

They could, although the question is why don't they.

A weak competitor is better than no competitor in the eyes of a company that would come under scrutiny as a marketplace monopoly.
Keeping AMD on life support ensures there are no calls to break up Intel (or pressure them to offer x86 licences). Unlikely to happen but the adverse publicity and legal fees aren't wanted. IBM eventually got out from under its 1956 Consent Decree and governmental calls for a break up, but it took nearly forty years of legal wrangling.
Another point is that if AMD were so weakened that viability became an issue (Chapter 11), the company would be ripe for a take over. Any possible -interested - new owner would have more funds to pour into the company. Imagine if Samsung or Qualcomm gobbled up AMD. Even if one of them gutted the company for its graphics IP, the situation ultimately means Intel has a bigger competitor.

 

[Dbiggs9]

The real deal is AMD is so far behind the game Green Team is able to sell Mid range Cores at High end core prices.
GeForce 460 Mid Range GF104 Nvidia Mid range core.
GeForce 480 High End GF100 Nvidia High end core.
GeForce 560 Mid Range GF114 Nvidia Mid range core
Geforce 580 High End GF110 Nvidia High end core.
Geforce 660 Mid Range GK104 Nvidia Mid range core
Geforce 680 High End GK104 See what just happen? Nvidia Mid range Core was able to compete with AMD high end Cores
Geforce 760 Mid Range GK104 Nvidia Mid range core
GeForce 780 High End GK110 Here is are high end core again. (Nvidia got away with using a mid range core as a high end for a whole series)
Geforce 960 Mid Range GM204 We all know XX4 is a mid range nvidia core.
Geforce 980 High End GM204 It happen again a mid range core can compete with AMD High end offerings!

So i see it this way Nvidia is so far ahead of the game they are using mid range Cores to compete with AMD for wholes series now.
If AMD Could compete we all would have been buying GK110 Cores for the Price we was paying for the Gk104. Till AMD gets back in the game Nvidia is going to save GM210 Core for the next series.

 

[Gmr_Chick]

all I see is a conspiracy theory which got a lot amazing responses by a lot of amd haters.

Don't look at me. Besides, posting that garbage makes you no better than the OP; it's obvious they're trying to start a flame war. Grow up. Nobody is "hating" on AMD - they simply don't have anything to compete with the likes of Intel or Nvidia at this point in time, just as others have said. It's not "hating". It's fact, pure and simple.

 

[vega22]

this thread has so much fanboi bullshit now it is staining the white background.

 

[RCoon]

I think we're missing the real nature of this thread here. We all know the real outline of all this. NVidia are aliens from outer space, and AMD are the righteous heroes of this tale. The nasty aliens have decided to create some form of monopoly on the GPU market, offering better performance than competitors. However the sacrifice is that every time a person buys an NVidia GPU, the nation loses a fragment of its soul, and 1 IQ from the total population. AMD are trying to compete, offering whatever they can in order to sway the human race from sacrificing themselves for just 20 more FPS on ultra HD resolutions, whilst also offering a foot warmer in the same package. We're just too blind to see it. Don't let the nasty aliens take the population by devious means, offering performance and power consumption and price all in one package, it's simply too good to be true. Buy AMD and invest in Mantle, the fate of the world depends on it. Who else will pay for Rory Read's sweet holiday tan? Who can possibly call Raj "The King" if he has nothing to govern? How else will Jim Keller find purpose in his life?

In conclusion, don't do drugs and tech.

In all seriousness, AMD will never die. They might turn into a modern day Matrox, but various "interested" parties would not allow Intel or NVidia to gain total monopoly control of CPU or GPU parts.

 

[Sempron Guy]

Fuck AMD, their shit has sucked for 10 years enough of there trying to play catch up just fail already. we are all waiting

really no hatin? where do I begin, hmmm......

Don't look at me. Besides, posting that garbage makes you no better than the OP; it's obvious they're trying to start a flame war. Grow up. Nobody is "hating" on AMD - they simply don't have anything to compete with the likes of Intel or Nvidia at this point in time, just as others have said. It's not "hating". It's fact, pure and simple.

to say that nobody is hating on AMD is either blind or naive. It doesn't matter if AMD just had the price/performance crown on the gpu side a few months ago, or their APUs are far superior than the intel equivalent the hate will always be there.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

The way I see it, Mantle was just a means for AMD to capitalize and demonstrate an API that lets developers get closer to the hardware which Microsoft adopted and rolled into DirectX 12, likely in collaboration with Microsoft and Sony on their respective consoles. Mantle was never intended to be a long-term thing. The only way Mantle is around in a decade is if Direct3D 12 doesn't deliver similar performance.

 

[Devon68]

You want a conspiracy story well here it goes.

[TROLING IN PROGRESS]
Nvidia and AMD are secretly working with Ubisoft in order to make their games run pretty bad on today's hardware, so the users who really want the game will have to upgrade their hardware. This can be seen with the not so long ago price drops on both AMD and Nvidia gpu's along side with the fact that nvidia has bundles that contain AC Unity in them thus confirming the conspiracy. AMD was about to make a bundle containing AC unity as well but after the recent news that "Ubisoft accused AMD of Assassin's Creed Unity's poor performance and bugs", AMD decided to bundle Sid Meier's Civilization V: Beyond Earth instead. Now that AMD is out of the picture nvidia went a little further and got Ubisoft to implement a new setting in the new game of FAR CRY 4 called nVidia that would push the boundaries of today's hardware once again making the users have to upgrade. Oh and look at that coincidence Far cry 4 is in Nvidia's bundle as well so my conspiracy theory is conformed. Happy trolling everybody.
[TROLING ENDED]

 

[buildzoid]

The original theory while really far out and ridiculous does work. Mantel is going public end of this year. If Nvidia takes enough market share before that happens no developer will use Mantel because everyone will have Nvidia GPUs and Nvidia will not support Mantel. This leaves Mantel dead and Nvidia can continue being 10% faster at slightly lower power draws forever.

 

[cadaveca]

I wasn't 100% serious. but okay.

Neither was I. Really... how can we be serious? Because of all the credentials that follow our names, we must be taken and always be serious?

 

[HumanSmoke]

The original theory while really far out and ridiculous does work.

Not really. Nvidia have held ~60% or more of the discrete graphics market almost continuously for the past eight years - the only exceptions are Q3 2009 (an ageing Nvidia line up) and Q2 2010 (intro of Cedar/Redwood and the bad publicity of GF100). At least four other conditions also must be taken in account:
1. Market share is weighted heavily towards entry level/lower mainstream, and the vast majority of these sales go into prebuilts and mobile. OEM contracts. OEM's could care less about Mantle. Have you seen Dell, HP, Acer, or any other OEMs push Mantle as a selling point ? Do people who buy entry level systems have Mantle in the forefront of their mind when looking at a purchase? Hell, if you go to the Dell site and click the "Help me choose" video card option just above the R9 270, the pop up initially shows you what exactly?
2. More than a quarter of all discrete graphics sales revenue accrues from professional boards (Tesla, Quadro, FirePro), Mantle is a non-issue in this sizeable market.
3. DX12 wont be relevant until Win10 launches, which will be after Win7's mainstream support finishes, and except for the low CPU overhead, most of DX12's graphical advantages (which will be the prime mover) will also be available to DX11.3 which will be available to Win8 users.
4. GTX 970/980 sales would impact revenue more than market share. The discrete gaming graphics market for $300+ cards isn't that significant in the overall scheme of things.

Mantel is going public end of this year.

The Gospel according to Richard Huddy. I'd believe the North Korean government press office before AMD's "Gaming Scientist". If it happens, all well and good, but with less than six weeks left in the year they are going to be cutting it fine. Even AMD haven't decided where in that six weeks its going to be available.

If Nvidia takes enough market share before that happens no developer will use Mantel because everyone will have Nvidia GPUs and Nvidia will not support Mantel. This leaves Mantel dead and Nvidia can continue being 10% faster at slightly lower power draws forever.

Doesn't seem that logical. Most of the Mantle titles are at least partially sponsored by AMD's Gaming Evolved program, and Mantle by all accounts doesn't take excessive amounts of extra coding/QA. If AMD wants Mantle inclusion then it will likely be there. If game devs turn away from Mantle then it makes a lie of how easy it is to code for (see last sentence). If the game engines already support Mantle, why wouldn't it be included, especially if AMD are sponsoring the title?

 

[mroofie]

Nvidia man`s choice.

i see what you did there

 

[mroofie]

You want a conspiracy story well here it goes.

[TROLING IN PROGRESS]
Nvidia and AMD are secretly working with Ubisoft in order to make their games run pretty bad on today's hardware, so the users who really want the game will have to upgrade their hardware. This can be seen with the not so long ago price drops on both AMD and Nvidia gpu's along side with the fact that nvidia has bundles that contain AC Unity in them thus confirming the conspiracy. AMD was about to make a bundle containing AC unity as well but after the recent news that "Ubisoft accused AMD of Assassin's Creed Unity's poor performance and bugs", AMD decided to bundle Sid Meier's Civilization V: Beyond Earth instead. Now that AMD is out of the picture nvidia went a little further and got Ubisoft to implement a new setting in the new game of FAR CRY 4 called nVidia that would push the boundaries of today's hardware once again making the users have to upgrade. Oh and look at that coincidence Far cry 4 is in Nvidia's bundle as well so my conspiracy theory is conformed. Happy trolling everybody.
[TROLING ENDED]

lol