AMD to Build "Zen 2" and "Zen 3" Processors on 7 nm Process: CTO

[Boosnie]

I really don't see how EUV will make costs go down when a EUV litograph costs 100M upfront, consumes something like 100 times the power a regular UV litography machine and sensitive parts exposed to plasma have a lifecycle of a few months.

 

[_JP_]

Both are Scorpion's and Sub-zero brothers.

Karateka and...?

 

[B-Real]

Ryzen is competitive but it's still a 2nd tier CPU. Clock to clock, Ryzen is generally 10% to 15% slower than Kaby Lake (+20% in games) and it doesn't clock as well as Kaby Lake. AMD's CPU division is doing fine ATM but their graphics division is where they're struggling the most.

As we are on Techpowerup, check this 15 game average:

As I see, a single 1600 (priced between the i5-7500 and the i5-7600K) is 11-2% slower in games compared to the fastest i7-7700K (priced +100$). And uuuaaaaaa's link to the HW Unboxed video review shows exactly the same, based on a 30 game average. Around 13% on base clocks. OCd, the 1600 OC matches the 7800X OC... and only 9% slower than the 7700K. Really bad as I see. :O So your dream of 20% difference is absolute bullshit. Still, you don't mention the price difference in %...

 

[Vayra86]

I really don't see how EUV will make costs go down when a EUV litograph costs 100M upfront, consumes something like 100 times the power a regular UV litography machine and sensitive parts exposed to plasma have a lifecycle of a few months.

Patterning becomes easier, the yield per wafer is higher and the process becomes faster.

For mass production you want the yields, everything else pales in comparison to good yields cost-wise. EUV is the only feasible way to make 7nm cost effective for any consumer tier product. Until then, you can kiss goodbye to any hope of Ryzen 2 on 7nm.

Its not without reason literally every chip architect is pushing for transition to EUV.

@ the chart above: for a broad view of performance, this is fine, but you can also see that a 7700K at 4.2 Ghz is already a good 10% ahead of Ryzen *across* a number of games of which the majority is NOT CPU LIMITED.

Now enter a CPU limited game and the value will shift in favor of the higher clocked CPU. On top of that the 7700K can clock much, much higher than 4.2. The realistic CPU performance metric should be focusing on the worst-case scenarios where you push both CPUs to 100% utilization and then compare the FPS. Only that will really tell you the performance gap between the two.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

The foundries will just do 7nm the hard way initially with 14-18 steps or more , they will be dear but with loads of small chips the yeilds could be workable ie for Navi (McM) or Zen 2 , other manufacturers will struggle way way more then Amd with 7nm think of the monolithic monsters intel and nvidia makes.
Amd went modular years ago with good reason, they Are now ahead of the game , only Qualcomm and arm were as wise.
And going by nvidias latest mcm gpu pr piece they now know exactly what they're up against , because regardless, some customers wont want anything but big monster chips still.

 

[Super XP]

So it will be 2020 until we see Zen 2....

12nm Zen+ is April 2018, and Zen 2 is 2019. And Zen 3 is 2020.

 

[FR@NK]

12nm Zen+ is April 2018, and Zen 2 is 2019. And Zen 3 is 2020.

"Roadmap Subject to Change."

But dont let that stop the hype train...

 

[TheGuruStud]

"Roadmap Subject to Change."

But dont let that stop the hype train...

It's not Intel 10nm lol. Everything is currently on track. Risk production will be begin later this year.