AMD to Intel - Preparing The Switch

[Gmr_Chick]

Ok...there seems to be a bit of a disconnect here as to what I originally created this topic for. I don't mean to sound rude, but I specifically asked about what I needed to do in regards to my system before swapping out my CPU and motherboard, NOT why I should get X over Y CPU - my decision has already been made. I've already stated my reasons why I'm moving from AMD to Intel - I do nothing that involves multi-threaded performance like streaming or video encoding or the like. I need strong single threaded performance, and the AMD doesn't provide it, no matter how many cores it has. I have the intent to upgrade to a K CPU in the distant future. This discussion about getting X over Y is over, ok?

That being said, if you guys have anything to add about things I need to do before making the parts swap, feel free to enlighten me.

 

[TRWOV]

If you have any kind of professional software (Adobe or Corel suites, Office 365) you might want to uninstall them before since some suites tie activations to a hardware hash (I know Corel does) so they might freak out or something if you make the swap that way.

 

[McSteel]

With sysprep you will lose all user-specific settings. So if your goal is to avoid reinstalling everything because you'll lose your app settings (including, but not limited to, browser bookmarks, preferences, activation, savegames), don't do it! Also, My Documents, My Pictures, My Music, etc. will perhaps remain with their contents intact, but they will no longer be tied to any active user account. You'll have to deal with gaining permissions for opening the folders, to get to the files, then move them over etc.

There are a number of programs that will either restore a backup image to a dissimilar hardware, or modify an existing system to allow booting on different hardware. I'm not sure if there are any free ones, though... If you can wait a bit I can research.

If you don't shy away from piracy (not that I encourage or suggest anything in particular...), Paragon Hard Disk Manager is probably the best one to use, with its "P2P adjust" option.

While we're on the subject of legality, if you have an OEM Windows licence, it is voided if you swap out the motherboard...

 

[Gmr_Chick]

If you have any kind of professional software (Adobe or Corel suites, Office 365) you might want to uninstall them before since some suites tie activations to a hardware hash (I know Corel does) so they might freak out or something if you make the swap that way.

The only ones I have are the usual Adobe Reader XI and Adobe Flash Player, but I don't think I had to pay for them, nor do I think I need a license for them. Basically, I think they were both free downloads. Would these types of programs count or do you mean things like Adobe Photoshop and related programs? Because I don't have any of those. I use GIMP, but it's free.

With sysprep you will lose all user-specific settings. So if your goal is to avoid reinstalling everything because you'll lose your app settings (including, but not limited to, browser bookmarks, preferences, activation, savegames), don't do it! Also, My Documents, My Pictures, My Music, etc. will perhaps remain with their contents intact, but they will no longer be tied to any active user account. You'll have to deal with gaining permissions for opening the folders, to get to the files, then move them over etc.

There are a number of programs that will either restore a backup image to a dissimilar hardware, or modify an existing system to allow booting on different hardware. I'm not sure if there are any free ones, though... If you can wait a bit I can research.

If you don't shy away from piracy (not that I encourage or suggest anything in particular...), Paragon Hard Disk Manager is probably the best one to use, with its "P2P adjust" option.

While we're on the subject of legality, if you have an OEM Windows licence, it is voided if you swap out the motherboard...

McSteel, it's funny you mention Paragon because one of the tutorials I found (http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/292068-make-windows-7-bootable-after-motherboard-swap.html) is for that specific program. The other one I found (http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorial...lation-transfer-new-computer.html#post1161038) deals with using Sysprep. Unfortunately, in that one, it mentions creating a system image backup and saving it to something like an external HDD, which I lack. Other places I've been say that just doing a completely fresh install is the best way to avoid potential problems that may crop up with either the sysprep or Paragon methods.

If you could help me out, I'd really appreciate it. I'm willing to wait to see what you come up with. Thank you.

I'm well aware of the OEM Windows thing; supposedly 9 times out of 10, end users have been able to reactivate their copies of Windows 7 without a hitch, some even having to do absolutely nothing in regards to reactivating it. I guess I will find out...

 

[GreiverBlade]

This discussion about getting X over Y is over, ok?

no. but if you feel so ... then yes (i did the same way as you did ... ) but you are just defying the logic (as i did ... so i don't mind ... but i also don't care about waiting and loosing money doing tests )
yet i can't see what single core performance software you might use to justify a weakling like a i3 4160 when a Pentium G3258 cost less and deliver more (when clocked right) so yet X over Y is not over since there is a better option and cheaper (and Z87 compatible afaik)

so then back to the topic, i use 2 win 7 pro 64 OEM over and over since i bought my pc's most of the time i could do a Dirty swap and just remove the old driver before swapping. but sometime i had to re install and activate via phone (and yes OEM so the License Voided is just a paper tiger to scare average user)

when i changed from Z77+E3-1275v2 to a FM2A88X + Athlon X4 760K/A10-7700K i cloned my HDD on a SSD then from that one i went on a 990X+FX6300: dirty swap, then went on a Z97+i5-4690K: dirty swap + phone activation

The only ones I have are the usual Adobe Reader XI and Adobe Flash Player, but I don't think I had to pay for them, nor do I think I need a license for them

indeed ... no license no fees for those two

also for the programs i never had to re-install since my games and software are on a separate HDD and win on a SSD just re enter the credential on some "user account linked" soft like steam origine Raptr and such

i even dirty swapped a PATA 160gb drive with 7 from a dual Opteron server to my c2d E8400 setup no sweat just old motherboard and graphic driver cleaning before

 

[Jetster]

So Is the 4160 a Haswell Refresh? Might want to get a non refresh with a Z87

 

[rtwjunkie]

Ok...there seems to be a bit of a disconnect here as to what I originally created this topic for. I don't mean to sound rude, but I specifically asked about what I needed to do in regards to my system before swapping out my CPU and motherboard, NOT why I should get X over Y CPU - my decision has already been made. I've already stated my reasons why I'm moving from AMD to Intel - I do nothing that involves multi-threaded performance like streaming or video encoding or the like. I need strong single threaded performance, and the AMD doesn't provide it, no matter how many cores it has. I have the intent to upgrade to a K CPU in the distant future. This discussion about getting X over Y is over, ok?

That being said, if you guys have anything to add about things I need to do before making the parts swap, feel free to enlighten me.

I was wondering how long you'd let the advice go on before reminding everyone that you specifically want single-thread gaming performance! I can certainly understand that, with as much as I play Total War games. It's also good that you are planning ahead to be able to upgrade that CPU in the future, since it is very likely that you'll have more and more need for multi-threaded.

As for advice, just because you CAN switch out the innards and still keep your OS without reinstall, I will always advise to do a fresh install. Yes, it's a little more time-consuming, but the peace of mind versus the little problems that manifest themselves here or there, indicating that all is not 100% well underneath the hood, is definately worth it. I've done it both ways, and fresh install is the way to go.

Good Luck!

 

[FreedomEclipse]

If i may make a suggestion.....

Since its single threaded performance youre after and you dont do any media encoding or use any heavily multi-threaded apps and since youre on a budget. I recommend going with the Intel Pentium G3258. It is a Dual Core CPU with no hyper threading but the multi is unlocked. Many reviewers have managed to overclock it close to 4.8Ghz, At that speed it will totally blow the i3-4160 out of the water

::EDIT::

Heres a little conclusion from a review

 

[newtekie1]

@newteki1 and Dent1: Sorry to say, my 6100 blows compared to even a lowly i3-4160. And according to others who've helped me here on other questions I've had, the i3 still beats out an FX 8 core. Besides, the upgrade path on the AMD side is non-existent; AM3+ is virtually a dead socket now. At least there's an upgrade path with the Intel. The games I play demand stronger single threaded performance, which the AMD lacks, hence why I decided to switch platforms.

Yes, the i3 will give you better single-threaded performance. However, like I said, I'd wait until you can afford a z97 and an i5-4690k. Even if you play games that require heavy single threaded performance, the 6100 should handle them just fine. I play plenty of games that are heavily single threaded, and my 8320 does just fine.

And sure, AM3+ isn't getting anything new in the foreseeable future, but the fact is we don't know if it will get updates. Everyone is assuming it is dead, while AMD has stated they won't release anything on the high end market until DDR4 is more mainstream then they will release AM4. They could very well make the AM4 processors compatible with AM3+ just like they made the AM3 processors compatible with AM2+. But even if they don't, Z87 is more dead than AM3+ at this point, Intel has already confirmed there will be nothing new for it. Broadwell will be z97 only, heck they already tried to cut z87 out by claiming only z97 support with the Haswell Refresh CPUs, but eventually backed down and confirmed support of z87.

So, no, there isn't an upgrade path with your current choice of parts. Which is why I said, wait until you can afford z97. At the very least, shift the money slightly to get a decent z97 motherboard and go with the G3258.

At least then you can overclock right away and get the G3258 up to decent performance levels. And if single threaded performance is your main concern loosing hyperthreading by dropping from an i3 to the G3258 won't matter.

 

[Blue-Knight]

AMD to Intel - Preparing The Switch

I can imagine how this switch would look like...

Spoiler: Viewer discretion is advised!

 

[Dent1]

If i may make a suggestion.....

Since its single threaded performance youre after and you dont do any media encoding or use any heavily multi-threaded apps and since youre on a budget. I recommend going with the Intel Pentium G3258. It is a Dual Core CPU with no hyper threading but the multi is unlocked. Many reviewers have managed to overclock it close to 4.8Ghz, At that speed it will totally blow the i3-4160 out of the water

::EDIT::

Heres a little conclusion from a review

Or she can overclock the existing fx 6100 and get single threaded performance of the i3-4160 for free.

 

[xvi]

To all, OP is dead set on the move to Intel, already has the motherboard purchased. Let's stay on track.

I'd also recommend a fresh install. Windows licenses will usually let you activate a few times before they make you call in to have someone ask you how many computers you have that copy of Windows installed on. (The correct answer is "Right now, zero!" by the way.)

Many reviewers have managed to overclock it close to 4.8Ghz

Mine runs at 4.8 fairly comfortably on a low end AIO with questionable contact between CPU and waterblock, albeit at a few more volts than I'd prefer. Still, OP has previously expressed disinterest in overclocking.

Or she can overclock the existing fx 6100 and get single threaded performance of the i3-4160 for free.

While I agree, OP has already tried that and was uncomfortable with the experience.

 

[Gmr_Chick]

So Is the 4160 a Haswell Refresh? Might want to get a non refresh with a Z87

According to my motherboard's manual, it comes with something called QFlash, which lets you update the BIOS via a flash drive, kinda like what my current AM3+ ASUS board has. I went ahead and downloaded Gigabyte's F2 BIOS for my specific board and saved it on my flash drive. So I should be OK.

I was wondering how long you'd let the advice go on before reminding everyone that you specifically want single-thread gaming performance! I can certainly understand that, with as much as I play Total War games. It's also good that you are planning ahead to be able to upgrade that CPU in the future, since it is very likely that you'll have more and more need for multi-threaded.

As for advice, just because you CAN switch out the innards and still keep your OS without reinstall, I will always advise to do a fresh install. Yes, it's a little more time-consuming, but the peace of mind versus the little problems that manifest themselves here or there, indicating that all is not 100% well underneath the hood, is definately worth it. I've done it both ways, and fresh install is the way to go.

Good Luck!

I was thinking of a fresh install as well. This would require the use of sysprep, right? To be honest, I wouldn't mind having to re-install my programs/games over if that's what it takes to avoid as many headaches as possible. I don't have a boatload of programs on my rig anyway, mostly games which I backed up all the important stuff for anyway. Plus I backed up all my firefox book marks, passwords, documents, etc. Good thing I recently got a 32 GB flash drive - it's quite handy right now!

 

[xvi]

I was thinking of a fresh install as well. This would require the use of sysprep, right?

Nope. Sysprep basically prepares the machine for imaging. It strips out a lot of unique identifiers and it all up next time the machine boots. The idea is that you get one machine ready, run sysprep, image the drive, then deploy the image on multiple computers. When they all boot back up, they look for new hardware and generate new unique IDs. If not, you'd have a bunch of machines with, for example, the same network name.
If you're doing a fresh install, you just need to make sure you back up any files you want to keep, then format the disk (from setup) and install Windows.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind having to re-install my programs/games over if that's what it takes to avoid as many headaches as possible. I don't have a boatload of programs on my rig anyway, mostly games which I backed up all the important stuff for anyway.

Check out ninite.com. It'll automate a lot of the installs for normal programs. Makes things kind of nice. As an added bonus, if you keep the Ninite installer, you can run it again at a later date and it'll check for updated versions of the things you've asked it to install. Should help simplify and speed up the reinstall process.

Plus I backed up all my firefox book marks, passwords, documents, etc. Good thing I recently got a 32 GB flash drive - it's quite handy right now!

Sounds like you're pretty much all set!

 

[TRWOV]

I was thinking of a fresh install as well. This would require the use of sysprep, right?

No. Sysprep is just for when you want to move an HDD with Windows already on it. If you're going to do a fresh install you don't need to, in fact it would be useless to sysprep a drive for a fresh install.

With sysprep you will lose all user-specific settings. So if your goal is to avoid reinstalling everything because you'll lose your app settings (including, but not limited to, browser bookmarks, preferences, activation, savegames), don't do it! Also, My Documents, My Pictures, My Music, etc. will perhaps remain with their contents intact, but they will no longer be tied to any active user account. You'll have to deal with gaining permissions for opening the folders, to get to the files, then move them over etc.

Not you say you're 100% mistaken but I've migrated with sysprep a couple of times and I know from experience that you don't need to deal with permissions since you log into your old admin account:

Since your old user profile already exist, Windows won't accept your normal username, but instead you have to create a new temporary user. When the login screen appears, choose your old user account to login and delete the temporary account.

I haven't lost bookmarks or any other user settings on third party programs. The only issue I've had is that Corel VideoStudio X5 freaked out with the hardware change and said that my copy was unregistered; that merited a chat with Corel support. Steam had a problem too but I just ran the installer again and all was peachy.

Still, as always, your mileage may vary. I'm confident enough to say that user generated files (docs, music, etc) won't be deleted or anything.

 

[Gmr_Chick]

If you're doing a fresh install, you just need to make sure you back up any files you want to keep, then format the disk (from setup) and install Windows.

Check out ninite.com. It'll automate a lot of the installs for normal programs. Makes things kind of nice. As an added bonus, if you keep the Ninite installer, you can run it again at a later date and it'll check for updated versions of the things you've asked it to install. Should help simplify and speed up the reinstall process.

Yep, I made sure to back up everything of importance, so I'm all good there. So, basically, with a fresh install, all I do is leave my HDD drive alone, keep everything on my rig as-is (no driver uninstalling), swap my parts, turn the PC back on, and then just insert the Windows disc, format the HDD and that's it?

That Ninite tool looks really handy, by the way! Thanks for that. I just use that after I do a fresh Windows install, right?

 

[Devon68]

That Ninite tool looks really handy, by the way! Thanks for that. I just use that after I do a fresh Windows install, right?

After you reinstall windows just open ninite.com chose what you need (I think cccleaner is there as well) and it will automatically install it on your pc. Since i heard about this site I use it all the time (no need for me to search for every software individually, I just stay away from the anti virus software because they are probably just trial versions)

 

[xvi]

Yep, I made sure to back up everything of importance, so I'm all good there. So, basically, with a fresh install, all I do is leave my HDD drive alone, keep everything on my rig as-is (no driver uninstalling), swap my parts, turn the PC back on, and then just insert the Windows disc, format the HDD and that's it?

That Ninite tool looks really handy, by the way! Thanks for that. I just use that after I do a fresh Windows install, right?

Correct. We don't particularly care what's on the drive since the first thing you'll be doing with it in the new rig is wiping it clean. If the new machine tries to boot off the hard drive, there's a pretty good chance it'll just BSOD. The order of operations I do is install Windows, grab all updates from Windows Update, grab Ninite and let it install, then grab any other applications that Ninite didn't have. From there, pull all stuff from your backup and you should be done.

After you reinstall windows just open ninite.com chose what you need (I think cccleaner is there as well) and it will automatically install it on your pc. Since i heard about this site I use it all the time (no need for me to search for every software individually, I just stay away from the anti virus software because they are probably just trial versions)

Most of the ones on Ninite aren't trial, iirc. Modern Windows has some anti-malware stuff built in, but if something more than that is desired, I usually recommend Malwarebytes Anti-Malware.

 

[Gmr_Chick]

Well folks, I've officially got my "new" rig up and running...with one major exception: I'm dependent on the HD 4400 graphics on the CPU at the moment. Will get to that in a moment, though. To avoid any problems with Windows, I just did a completely clean, fresh install of Windows 7, and other than the one issue I'm having with my newly installed ( and custom painted *gulp*) 280x, my rig is running just great; the sound on this motherboard compared to my last one is unbelievably good, but the BIOS aren't as good as the ones found on my ASUS board. At any rate, on to my problem.

When connecting my monitor to the back of my GPU and then turning on the system, I get one continuous beep and then three shorter beeps; the computer boots, but the screen stays black, lights on my keyboard and mouse light up, etc. The computer itself seems to be on, but again, I get no display. I suspect that the card isn't getting enough power, either because I don't have enough wattage, or the fact that I'm only using one 6 pin power connecter when the damn thing requires two 8 pin connectors (I only got one; don't ask why I'm not using it, since I know I probably should be) It's currently late here, but tomorrow would it be worth it to test the card using the 8 pin connector, or both the 8 AND 6 pin connectors and see what happens, or would I just be safer getting an 850W PSU, or even going back to my old card until said bigger PSU is acquired?

Other than this little hiccup, my rig is all good.

 

[GreiverBlade]

It's currently late here, but tomorrow would it be worth it to test the card using the 8 pin connector, or both the 8 AND 6 pin connectors and see what happens, or would I just be safer getting an 850W PSU, or even going back to my old card until said bigger PSU is acquired?

technically there is no way a 280X + the rest of your rig will use or need 850w (look at my main rig in my sys specs i use a 650w and i have a OC'ed 4690K + a quite good OC R9 290) but indeed your 560w might be a bit too tight also normally good PSU have 6+2 pin (mine has 2x 6+2 actually) and you should never run a card without all the connector plugged : it will not even boot afaik, most of the time the card come packed with power adapter ie: 2x 4xmolex to 1x 6/8pin

nah... power usage of a reference rig like yours
Minimum PSU Wattage:354 W
Recommended
PSU Wattage: *

even a 560w is enough moreover a seasonic gold ... unless old, no need to spend money there on a 850w (even if i go 290 CFX i will not need more than a 750w for my side) tho most of the 600w and more have a combination of 1/2x6.2 or 1x6+2/1x 6



btw your system if you CFX
Minimum PSU Wattage:534 W
Recommended
PSU Wattage: *

and your system with a CFX+ 4790K non OC
Minimum PSU Wattage:561 W
Recommended
PSU Wattage: *

slight OC (4.8)

Minimum PSU Wattage:587 W
Recommended
PSU Wattage: *

and then with a G3258 with a 4.5 OC in account
Minimum PSU Wattage:555 W
Recommended
PSU Wattage: *

ofc it's theoretic but that web app never failed me, and the recommended is a bit above the reality (safe side if i can say so)

 

[rtwjunkie]

Without those power pins, your card is neither getting enough watts or amps. All plugs need to be in that beast. If all you have is one 6+2, then yes, I would say go back to your old GPU until you acquire a new PSU (with more connectors!), but I don't think you need 850w either.

 

[Devon68]

What do you mean by that?

( and custom painted *gulp*) 280x

 

[xvi]

Well folks, I've officially got my "new" rig up and running...with one major exception: I'm dependent on the HD 4400 graphics on the CPU at the moment. Will get to that in a moment, though. To avoid any problems with Windows, I just did a completely clean, fresh install of Windows 7, and other than the one issue I'm having with my newly installed ( and custom painted *gulp*) 280x, my rig is running just great; the sound on this motherboard compared to my last one is unbelievably good, but the BIOS aren't as good as the ones found on my ASUS board. At any rate, on to my problem.

When connecting my monitor to the back of my GPU and then turning on the system, I get one continuous beep and then three shorter beeps; the computer boots, but the screen stays black, lights on my keyboard and mouse light up, etc. The computer itself seems to be on, but again, I get no display. I suspect that the card isn't getting enough power, either because I don't have enough wattage, or the fact that I'm only using one 6 pin power connecter when the damn thing requires two 8 pin connectors (I only got one; don't ask why I'm not using it, since I know I probably should be) It's currently late here, but tomorrow would it be worth it to test the card using the 8 pin connector, or both the 8 AND 6 pin connectors and see what happens, or would I just be safer getting an 850W PSU, or even going back to my old card until said bigger PSU is acquired?

Other than this little hiccup, my rig is all good.

Without those power pins, your card is neither getting enough watts or amps. All plugs need to be in that beast. If all you have is one 6+2, then yes, I would say go back to your old PSU until you acquire a new PSU (with more connectors!), but I don't think you need 850w either.

Exactly this. Each 6-pin provides an ATX standard of 75w (and I think 8-pins are 150w, plus another 75w from the PCIe socket). The GPU can pull more than that, but not without violating ATX specs. The card will look at what's plugged in for power and won't boot up unless it has all the power it needs. If not, it fails POST and the BIOS will give you a beep code.
I think there are some cards that will boot with a 6-pin plug in an 8-pin socket (albeit at slower clock speeds to save power), but I don't think that's too terribly common.

What do you mean by that?

I've rattlecanned a part or two, although I'm curious as well. You DID take it apart first, right?

 

[TRWOV]

That Seasonic X-560 power supply has 2 x 2 PCIe 6+2 cables (it's the same one I have on my HTPC). Even if you got yours used and didn't get the whole cable set you should be able to connect the 280x without problem (I have a 7950 connected to a single x2 PCIe 6+2 cable), why would you be using only one?

560w is more than enough for your system.

 

[rtwjunkie]

That Seasonic X-560 power supply has 2 x 2 PCIe 6+2 cables (it's the same one I have on my HTPC). Even if you got yours used and didn't get the whole cable set you should be able to connect the 280x without problem (I have a 7950 connected to a single x2 PCIe 6+2 cable), why would you be using only one?

View attachment 61220

560w is more than enough for your system.

This is a good point too! I hope she comes back to tell us what happened to her other cable.