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Bitcoins!

Discussion in 'General Software' started by pantherx12, Feb 17, 2011.

  1. NinkobEi

    NinkobEi

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    You mean like that day it dropped from $250 to $150?
    [​IMG]
     
  2. james888

    james888

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    How about $20 to $250 in less than a month?
     
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  3. ZenZimZaliben

    ZenZimZaliben

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    Some people are risk adverse...this clearly isn't the thing for those types of people, and honestly coming in saying it dropped a "whole X%" means nothing to the people willing to risk it...because just as it drops quickly it can rise quickly. This is exactly how penny stocks work. Course we are dealing with far more then pennies now. Same exact premises though. Also I would never suggest someone invest all their life savings on Bitcoins, or penny stocks. Don't gamble what you can't afford to lose.
     
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  4. The Von Matrices

    The Von Matrices

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    As bitcoin becomes more accepted for purchasing items and its value increases, then its price variability will decrease. The bitcoin speculators are the the ones to blame for the volatility since they are the ones that hold most of the coins. Once consumers and businesses hold most of the coins, then speculation will only account for a small part of the market and the price will stabilize.

    I personally am mining and accumulating bitcoins because I am frustrated with the U.S. Federal Reserve keeping interest rates near zero percent. There is no safe way to make money by investing anymore. My USD savings account earns less than 0.1% APY. The only way to make considerable money in USD is in the stock market, which is no less volatile than the bitcoin market.
     
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  5. NinkobEi

    NinkobEi

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    People also aren't getting this - if you bought at $5 and sell at $250, somebody just bought in at $250. Someone exactly like you has just committed to a much more high risk purchase than the one you initially made. That risk gets passed up and up and up until somebody is left holding the bag, and effectively the people who profited stole every dollar from the idiot at the end.

    Bitcoin is a commodity not a currency. It has nothing of value behind it to back it up, just speculation. Its your right to do with your money what you want. I just thought I would offer some free financial advice. Hopefully you don't get hacked because there is no safety measure in place for that.
     
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  6. silkstone

    silkstone

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    Aren't all currencies like this?
     
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  7. The Von Matrices

    The Von Matrices

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    Regarding your first argument, you could make that argument for any investment, be it gold, the stock market, or even other currencies. I don't understand why you think in this regard Bitcoin is any different from these investments. For example, in the stock market you rarely buy or sell stock from any company directly; instead, you pass the stock on to someone else, and if the company fails, then whoever is the last one holding the stock has a worthless asset.

    I'm also not sure you understand how modern currencies work. There is nothing to "back up" modern currency other than the belief of its holders that it has value. In that sense Bitcoin is no different than any other widely accepted currency. The main difference between Bitcoin and other currencies at the moment is that few retailers accept Bitcoin, so the main use for it is to trade it for other currencies and thus it is speculative. When more retailers accept Bitcoin, its price will stabilize and it will become indistinguishable from other commonly accepted currencies.
     
  8. Bow

    Bow

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    I have been thinking off and on about jumping into a mining pool. But I just don't know???
     
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  9. ZenZimZaliben

    ZenZimZaliben

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    Mining is pretty much risk free. However there are so many people mining now that the systems overall complexity has risen to a very high level. What used to take a month to generate a Bitcoin Block now takes much longer. You can still make money off it but you are going to need a serious crunching PC (Think 2-4 7970's in each machine), preferably multiple miners all working together, to make any serious profit.
     
  10. Aquinus

    Aquinus Resident Wat-man

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    Consider the money spent on electricity to gather bitcoins as well.
     
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  11. Chevalr1c

    Chevalr1c

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    All those resources (including, but not limited to: time, commitment, materials for the hardware, and energy) to mine bitcoins could also go to (including, but not limited to) F@H, WCG, POEM@home, DistrRTGen. All of them not giving "money" in return, but all of them more worthwile causes. And those do not "boost" trading in illegal goods.
     
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  12. silkstone

    silkstone

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    I doubt bitcoins really "boost" trading in illegal goods, they just make it more convenient if you have the know how.

    I barely spent any time on it. I think I made 8 BTC in a month, which I got returned to be as around .22 BTC (eventually) I had about .1 BTC which I sold at at $210 and bought back at $120.

    With my new found wealth i got a $50 Newegg card, which goes some way to mitigating the dissapointment at not keeping my original 8 BTC and making $2000.

    I am extremely jealous of all those newfound millionaires (and slightly bitter too).

    I was doing folding, SETI and WCG before I heard about bitcoins, but the power bills were oppressive. Later on I did 1/2 and 1/2 before just giving up and forgetting about them.

    I still don't think it will really take off, unless some well established escrow type services (paypal) get behind it. For people to have full trust in the system, there needs to be some kind of accountability.

    [Edit] Prepare yourselves for another big crash: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/feds-seize-money-from-top-bitcoin-exchange-mt-gox/
     
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  13. james888

    james888

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  14. NinkobEi

    NinkobEi

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    If your money is in a bank that gets robbed, the government will replace it for you for free. The US Dollar has Gold and other assets behind it that give it value. Bitcoin has, uh, magic trading cards? It is only worth what other people (you) agree it is worth.
     
  15. james888

    james888

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    Bitcoin -> Users of bitcoins and the bitcoin market trading etc etc etc -> Nothing.
    Dollar -> Full faith and credit of the US government -> Nothing

    There is no gold or other assets behind the dollar. There is only a printer of more dollars and inflation.

    The dollar is safer, no one disagrees on that. That could give reason for people to value it higher. In the end all value is subjective. The full faith and credit of the US government is not as appealing as it was before though. How many trillion now in debt? Insert general complaint about quantitative easing.
     
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  16. theoneandonlymrk

    theoneandonlymrk

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    That's exactly what I was doing the whole time this was growing, im going to sort my life issues and return to folding as far too many people NEED something folding will make happen sooner , its tgat simple and I might be in need myself one day.

    I might have chosen different had i forseen the potential but tbh I'm not bothered id have it spent so fast on more tech itd be silly me sat with twelve pcs all mineing in my bedroom
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2013
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  17. The Von Matrices

    The Von Matrices

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    I don't disagree that the others are good ways to invest compute power, but bitcoin has merit other than making profit. For example, bitcoin would eliminate the credit card and cash processing industry. The prices we pay at any store are already inflated by a few percent to pay the middle men who handle cash or credit cards. Bitcoin is a direct payment method with no middle man. Think of the amount of money that could be saved if the world adopted Bitcoin. If even a fraction of that money saved was devoted to research that those other pools perform, it would dwarf any computational investment that could be made by switching Bitcoin miners to those causes.

    Also, don't forget that the early adopters of most technology are the usually ones that have have the most unscrupulous goods. For example, the porn industry usually embraces technology before the general public. Think of VHS, Blu-ray, the Internet, etc. Does this make the aforementioned items morally wrong? No, because the technologies evolve and are primarily used for better purposes now. Bitcoin is evolving the same way.

    That's assuming that whatever government insures the money. In the U.S. it's generally true, but then again that's only up to $250,000 and only if the bank is FDIC insured. That insurance costs money, and therefore you get lower interest rates because of it. Also, the U.S. dollar has had no gold backing since October 1976. It is only protected by the "full faith and credit of the U.S. government". If the U.S. government fails, however unlikely that is, well then good luck getting anything for your dollars.

    That's never a bad idea if you already have a AMD graphics card, but I would highly suggest not buying hardware just to mine coins. ASIC miners which are 100x more energy efficient than graphics cards will be coming soon and they will make any purchased hardware obsolete before it repays its initial cost.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2013
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  18. Easy Rhino

    Easy Rhino Linux Advocate

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    not to mention once these start flooding the market the difficulty of coins is going to skyrocket. if you aren't in now then don't bother.
     
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  19. ZenZimZaliben

    ZenZimZaliben

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    I am amazed there are people out there that still think the American Dollar is backed up by gold....

    Please read this. http://economics.about.com/cs/money/a/gold_standard.htm

    Then read on Fiat Money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

    That's right...WORTHLESS except for Perceived Value by the public.

    This happened a long time ago. The American dollar is only worth what it the public/world perceive its value to be. This is exactly the same as Bitcoins and almost every other currency in the world. They are worth what the world thinks they are worth but are truly worth nothing.
     
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  20. MT Alex

    MT Alex

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    Nice post, the gross ignorance some hold about central currencies is frustrating, to say the least.

    Bitcoin is actually one step ahead of the USD in the fact that there is only a finite amount of them in circulation, it's this scarcity that creates their value. The Federal Reserve (which is a privately owned group of central bankers that have nothing to do with the Federal Government) can and does flood the market with as many dollars as they see fit. The don't call him Helicopter Ben for nothing. I won't even mention the fact that the Fed creates these dollars out of thin air, and then loans them to the US government and charges interest. It is one of the greatest Ponzi schemes ever enacted.
     
  21. Chevalr1c

    Chevalr1c

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    This is also true for the USD. The value will drop if you bring more of it in circulation (causing inflation). If old coins or bills are taken out of circulation without new copies as "refreshment", the value will increase. And I know that the Golden Standard has been dropped decades ago.

    BTW, the USD is one of the most falsified currencies in the world AFAIK.
     
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  22. MT Alex

    MT Alex

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    Sorry, but you're incorrect. For a very simple example, I'm pretty sure you've heard of quantitative easing. Well, the Fed isn't buying those bonds and assests with money it's been saving, it creates more out of thin air. It also does this every time the government wants to spend more money, but hey, who's keeping track?
     
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  23. Jack1n

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    If the USD isent backed up by gold any more then what did they do with all the gold in fort knox?
     
  24. The Von Matrices

    The Von Matrices

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    The difference is that there only ever will be 21 million bitcoins in circulation, and no one can change that. The U.S. Federal Reserve, however, can decide how many U.S. dollars it wants in circulation by destroying or printing more money.

    It's still owned by the government; it's just a government asset now instead of a reserve for the dollar. Theoretically the government could sell it all for something else if it wanted.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2013
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  25. NinkobEi

    NinkobEi

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    [​IMG]

    Found an interesting explanation:
    And then you run into interesting problems like this one where a guy ends up paying 30 BTC in transaction fees:
    http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1eh57i/messed_up_transaction_feeplease_help/
     
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