Charging by the Byte to Curb Internet Traffic

[DrPepper]

Damn I have the VIP package in britain for virgin and thats hd cable etc etc and the 20mb internet at times like 4am. Everyone gets throttled during the day and tbh most people here aren't computer smart and have stuff like virus' limewire and about 10 other p2p software running in the background whoring up the connection and although I download alot I make sure that its only at night when the connection is least used up to make everything faster. Also they are finally upgrading the cables to fiber optic so hopefully we won't get throttled

 

[HTC]

Here in Portugal, with the ISP i use, i get a 25 Mb/s download with 1 Mb upload connection (highest this ISP offers).

I have a 60 GB download / upload (combined) monthly limit but, however, from 1 AM GMT until 9 AM GMT, i have unlimited downloads / uploads. Using this feature (called "happy hour"), i downloaded 1254.6 GB in January ...

Only once i crossed the limit: back then i had a 1 Mb connection with a 10 GB monthly max and i downloaded 13.4 GB. With each 100 MB over the top @ 1.78 euros ... do the math ...

This is why i increased my connection to the biggest available because i actually pay less with it then i would with the 1 Mb connection if i crossed the limit by just 2 GBs ...

That i know of, pretty much all of the other ISPs in Portugal work similar to this: some have their version of "happy hour" and some don't.

 

[Mussels]

its quite funny how arrogant some americans are. (emphasis on SOME, not all)

You pay for a service which cant be sustained, the terms and conditions say 'upto' X speed with no guarantees... and when other people tell you they get better you get all huffy (australia has a law, 80% of advertised speed 95% of the time, something close to that)

we bitch about telstra... but dont worry, comcast and your ISP's are turning out to be exactly the same. at least we get the speed we pay for.

 

[pentastar111]

I don't do alot of downloading but I am online most of the day until I go to work at night...Mostly gaming and such. Hows this going to effect me... Oh, by the way, I warned you guy's about this months ago...http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=54747

 

[Easy Rhino]

the infrastructure in the US is being updated, albeit slowly. most cable lines around big/medium sized cities have been upgraded. fiber is being installed around the country as demand grows for faster internet and a higher quality HD picture (comcast's HD picture outside the major cities is terrible.) so the upgrades are happening but they would happen faster if the fed/state/local govts wouldnt get in the way.

 

[kaneda]

Over in the UK i pay £20 for 8mbit/s-448kbit/s with Virgin Media im cap'd for most of the daytime now for 'excessive use' however friends and people i know who work for both virgin media and British Telelcom(BT) have said that there's no no reason to throttle users, the companies have more than enough bandwidth on their network and are lying when they say one group of users spoil it for everyone. Virgin Media now offer Fiber Optic connection, yet they cap these also. these 20mbit lines have absolutely NO reason to be cap'd its absolutely ridiculous.

I can imagine Time Warner have a similar system/network.
time to face the facts. this isnt at all for improving the experience for certain users, its for making a profit.Charging 1 dollar a gig would set me back a good 5 dollars a day most of the time.There's one added benefit for the corporate world as this heavily hinders piracy, but sure as hell wont stop it. This is the first step before the Internet becomes limited content wise instead of just by bandwidth.



uh im glad i plan on moving to Japan when im done with education , 100mbit ¦3

 

[DaedalusHelios]

No limiting should ever occur period. They profit enough as it is.

They should quit squeezing all this money out of the consumers for so little cost to them.


They inforce monopolies in the telecoms through paying off politicians. FCC shouldn't be able to sell wide spectrums to companies. All of these things let corporations have free reign on overcharging consumers. If you do the same thing to a corporation, they sue you or you will simply disappear.

They are doing it with power, greed, and corruption. They are turning capitalism into slavery of the common man.

It will be like V for Vendetta one day.... only worse while using higher technology.

 

[Mussels]

my ISP actually has graphs for users, showing their network usage on each segment - you can see per state in australia, the PIPE network (PIPE is a network between ISP's for internal use, such as game servers)

Because they have small amounts during the day and large amounts starting at midnight, many users simply setup their download programs to start at midnight - and the effect was massive. within 30 seconds i'd go from 8Mb to 256Kb. The ISP added the graphs to allow people to see this.

Now they've implemented various solutions to reduce that strain on the network, but its a very serious and real problem - just because you cant understand why they shape it or want to charge more, doesnt mean its not real. Networking is more complex than most people realise, particularly in regards to the internet.

 

[pentastar111]

No limiting should ever occur period. They profit enough as it is.

They should quit squeezing all this money out of the consumers for so little cost to them.


They inforce monopolies in the telecoms through paying off politicians. FCC shouldn't be able to sell wide spectrums to companies. All of these things let corporations have free reign on overcharging consumers. If you do the same thing to a corporation, they sue you or you will simply disappear.

They are doing it with power, greed, and corruption. They are turning capitalism into slavery of the common man.

It will be like V for Vendetta one day.... only worse while using higher technology.

I absolutely agree...

 

[DaedalusHelios]

my ISP actually has graphs for users, showing their network usage on each segment - you can see per state in australia, the PIPE network (PIPE is a network between ISP's for internal use, such as game servers)

Because they have small amounts during the day and large amounts starting at midnight, many users simply setup their download programs to start at midnight - and the effect was massive. within 30 seconds i'd go from 8Mb to 256Kb. The ISP added the graphs to allow people to see this.

Now they've implemented various solutions to reduce that strain on the network, but its a very serious and real problem - just because you cant understand why they shape it or want to charge more, doesnt mean its not real. Networking is more complex than most people realise, particularly in regards to the internet.

You fail to grasp the profit involved. They are not doing this because they are actually limited. They are doing it because they want more money. They are following cell phone pricing schemes of consumer rape. I know a certain someone that works at a major cable company that told me about the bandwidth they are using for the new HD cable network. They will have the bandwidth to simultaneously stream 3+ hd channels (pause, play, rewind, straight from the server and not loading it all in the set top box)to every customer in there service area at all times. This network will cost them alot but its all going over the cable line.

I know it works because he showed it to me. They won't offer it until the software is less buggy, but they already have the bandwidth and they are almost done buying all the necessary hardware.

So don't tell me that its puts a strain on there system. LOL
If it does, that means they need to upgrade it and quit being so greedy with not setting up the proper hardware just so they can save money.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

Mines £30 a month for 8mb dsl with a 50gb per month fair use policy,if i go over 50gb,my connection turns into a 64k connection

 

[kaneda]

No limiting should ever occur period. They profit enough as it is.

They should quit squeezing all this money out of the consumers for so little cost to them.


They inforce monopolies in the telecoms through paying off politicians. FCC shouldn't be able to sell wide spectrums to companies. All of these things let corporations have free reign on overcharging consumers. If you do the same thing to a corporation, they sue you or you will simply disappear.

They are doing it with power, greed, and corruption. They are turning capitalism into slavery of the common man.

It will be like V for Vendetta one day.... only worse while using higher technology.

There's laws that are going to be passed in sweden which has avoided a lot of media attention, theyre going to legally allow wiretapping and the monitoring of all communication.

 

[Mussels]

You fail to grasp the profit involved. They are not doing this because they are actually limited. They are doing it because they want more money. They are following cell phone pricing schemes of consumer rape.

some companies might. i find blanket statements and conspiracy theories to be useless without facts.

In this thread alone we've already had complaints and reports of people getting less speed than they pay for... does it occur to you that the network infrastructure is not owned by the ISP, so they CANT do anything about it? the only options is to wait for whoever does own it to upgrade it, or reduce users usage.

 

[kaneda]

my ISP actually has graphs for users, showing their network usage on each segment - you can see per state in australia, the PIPE network (PIPE is a network between ISP's for internal use, such as game servers)

Because they have small amounts during the day and large amounts starting at midnight, many users simply setup their download programs to start at midnight - and the effect was massive. within 30 seconds i'd go from 8Mb to 256Kb. The ISP added the graphs to allow people to see this.

Now they've implemented various solutions to reduce that strain on the network, but its a very serious and real problem - just because you cant understand why they shape it or want to charge more, doesnt mean its not real. Networking is more complex than most people realise, particularly in regards to the internet.

in your country fine. in Europe and America - not so much.

they CAN support the heavy users fine they ARE just doing it for profit.

 

[Easy Rhino]

in your country fine. in Europe and America - not so much.

they CAN support the heavy users fine they ARE just doing it for profit.

i am sorry but this statement needs to be addressed. first off, it is a companies job to make a profit. you dont get into business to give away services or break even. that is what non-profits do. second, you are saying that the bandwidth crunch ISPs are experiencing is a ruse but i dont see any evidence of that. why would they have to lie in order to increase prices? they already jack up my cable bill whenever they want and i have the right to drop them if i so choose. my point is that they probably forsee a bandwidth crunch in the not to distant future and are raising prices now to pay for their current and future infrastructure.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

some companies might. i find blanket statements and conspiracy theories to be useless without facts.

In this thread alone we've already had complaints and reports of people getting less speed than they pay for... does it occur to you that the network infrastructure is not owned by the ISP, so they CANT do anything about it? the only options is to wait for whoever does own it to upgrade it, or reduce users usage.

Nope, read my post above. I have seen it first hand. Don't give simpathy to the companies that make the most in the world. Our telecoms set up the majority of their infastructure with tax payers money with something called "subsidies". Your telecoms probably did the same thing. Rupert Murdoch makes Bill Gates look like Jesus.

 

[kaneda]

i am sorry but this statement needs to be addressed. first off, it is a companies job to make a profit. you dont get into business to give away services or break even. that is what non-profits do. second, you are saying that the bandwidth crunch ISPs are experiencing is a ruse but i dont see any evidence of that. why would they have to lie in order to increase prices? they already jack up my cable bill whenever they want and i have the right to drop them if i so choose. my point is that they probably forsee a bandwidth crunch in the not to distant future and are raising prices now to pay for their current and future infrastructure.

Strategy, look past what you said. Say Virgin suddenly for no reason jacked up the prices or imposed insane bandwidth limits. what would happen? they'd all leave and find another ISP. by saying its the 'network' (which i might add is in the stages of beign swtiched over to fiber, the major sities are already nearly 100% fiber at this point in time) cant support its users, its bs.

by saying that its some users causing the problem, they cann limit and charge as much as they want and they stop being the bad guy.

but meh, whatever.

this is one step away from internet packages which offer you access to certain websites and no others.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

i am sorry but this statement needs to be addressed. first off, it is a companies job to make a profit. you dont get into business to give away services or break even. that is what non-profits do. second, you are saying that the bandwidth crunch ISPs are experiencing is a ruse but i dont see any evidence of that. why would they have to lie in order to increase prices? they already jack up my cable bill whenever they want and i have the right to drop them if i so choose. my point is that they probably forsee a bandwidth crunch in the not to distant future and are raising prices now to pay for their current and future infrastructure.

The majority of it will be paid for by government subsidies and by the massive profits. You can't drop them and expect to pick up another provider in some areas. Lets say a provider wants to charge you $1 million a minute for internet access. Should he be allowed to? Is there no consumer protection? Nope, there isn't from price hikes. :shadedshu

Then you say you could sue.... right? Try winning a lawsuit with a massive corporation. Its literally impossible is you are an individual.

The only individuals that get settlements from companies are not because the corporations think they will lose the legal battle. Its because they fear the "bad press" associated with it. Unless your friend is Rupert Murdoch, and then it won't even be reported on in most media outlets.

 

[Easy Rhino]

Strategy, look past what you said. Say Virgin suddenly for no reason jacked up the prices or imposed insane bandwidth limits. what would happen? they'd all leave and find another ISP. by saying its the 'network' (which i might add is in the stages of beign swtiched over to fiber, the major sities are already nearly 100% fiber at this point in time) cant support its users, its bs.

by saying that its some users causing the problem, they cann limit and charge as much as they want and they stop being the bad guy.

but meh, whatever.

this is one step away from internet packages which offer you access to certain websites and no others.

well atleast in the US they havnt raised their internet prices dramatically. instead they would rather shape traffic and offer tiers of service to keep the bulk of their clients happy. personally i dont think any of the ISPs are lieing about reaching capacity. there have been several independent studies done in the US that illustrate the problem clearly. more than likely what we are experiencing in the US is the ISPs working to prevent any major crisis so they are testing new ways to shape traffic.

 

[Basard]

wow, not only do u have to throw 15 bucks away each month for your MMO's... you have to throw even more money away for a byte.... stupidest thing ever. all of this while they are talking about giving us faster connections up to 100mbit, so we can throw our money away faster, what a miserable world to live in these days.

I love how a handful of rich sons-of-bitches control and RUIN everything for EVERYBODY. But don't expect to find me with a note left on my bed, pistol in my hand and bullet in my head. Viva la revolution! The end is near, who's with me? Ground Zero--Oshkosh, WI--were sick of high gas prices (rolls eyes), and we will NOT PAY BY THE BYTE.

 

[Easy Rhino]

The majority of it will be paid for by government subsidies and by the massive profits. You can't drop them and expect to pick up another provider in some areas. Lets say a provider wants to charge you $1 million a minute for internet access. Should he be allowed to? Is there no consumer protection? Nope, there isn't from price hikes. :shadedshu

well, without getting into a debate over civil rights, i would say that if there is only one ISP in your area and they want to charge $1 million then they have the right to and you have the right to not use their service. atleast in the US you are not entitled to internet, nor are you entitled to tell ISPs what they should be charging.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

well, without getting into a debate over civil rights, i would say that if there is only one ISP in your area and they want to charge $1 million then they have the right to and you have the right to not use their service. atleast in the US you are not entitled to internet, nor are you entitled to tell ISPs what they should be charging.

So in your eyes, as long as a company doesn't break an official law, it can abuse the individual without any recourse? Sounds like you don't care about the people.

 

[hat]

How long before they develop a system where you have to pay for the air you breathe?

 

[DaedalusHelios]

How long before they develop a system where you have to pay for the air you breathe?

When companies are done polluting the air to the point you cannot breath it without dying, they will come out with a filter. If they can then reach an agreement with the competition(of filter production) they will start attaching meters to the filters so they can charge you for how much you breath through that filter. Same idea.

 

[Easy Rhino]

So in your eyes, as long as a company doesn't break an official law, it can abuse the individual without any recourse? Sounds like you don't care about the people.

what i am saying is that there really is no way to properly define "abuse." you are favoring the consumer over the business owner and that isnt fair. you cant use govt to enforce the price of products just like you cant use the govt to make individuals pay a set high price. these are forms of price control which are detrimental to a free society. so in my eyes, individuals do not have a right to somebody elses labor. that means that we do not have a right to legally force someone else (in this case an ISP owner) into setting a price we think is fair. in a free market two parties come together and agree on what is fair. if 1 party uses the govt as coercion then we might as well live under stalin.