Do ALL sound cards have RAM?

[btarunr]

Oh the X-Fi Prelude is 192 kHz too, that apart Auzentech is a great brand. The best performing (gaming) card though is the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty Professional (long name) but the best sounding cards would definitely be any of the Auzens. The X-Meridean died prematurely. Talks doing rounds suggest Creative handed them the X-Fi technology if they cannibalized the X-Meridean just as Creative cannibalized the Zen Vision: M for making an X-Fi Apple iPod dock... ....all talk though. I would trade my X-Fi Prelude for a X-Meridean. Been begging current owners on several AV forums...no luck.

 

[Mussels]

Oh the X-Fi Prelude is 192 kHz too, that apart Auzentech is a great brand. The best performing (gaming) card though is the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty Professional (long name) but the best sounding cards would definitely be any of the Auzens. The X-Meridean died prematurely. Talks doing rounds suggest Creative handed them the X-Fi technology if they cannibalized the X-Meridean just as Creative cannibalized the Zen Vision: M for making an X-Fi Apple iPod dock... ....all talk though. I would trade my X-Fi Prelude for a X-Meridean. Been begging current owners on several AV forums...no luck.

prelude is not 192KHz, go check auzentechs site.
my X-plosion only has one thing i miss: a working EQ under vista. Bass control just kinda fails for headphone use. (Creative only added this for x-fi cards in vista... yet another thing they ditched to boost sales for x-fi)

 

[btarunr]

prelude is not 192KHz

Oh yes, it's on the box too. Strange, the CA20K1 processor is designed for 192 KHz analog output.

 

[TechnicalFreak]

Are all the new soundcards for PC same as for modern Mac's - PCI-Express?

 

[Electric]

Compared to what? a soundblaster 16? X-fi prelude? my auzentech X-plosion? Will it be for the better? not always. generic claims like this belong in marketing.

Do you think one is that stupid to compare it to a soundblaster 16? Have common sense..Im afraid i cant help you with that
It will have a difference compared to the previous cards like Audigy.....That too is all about your ears...If you cant notice the difference then im sorry.......

Read my point above. The crystalliser sounds like shit on my headphones, and thats the only thing that x-fi has over my audigy 4.

Yes for most people Crystallizer is complete garbage......But is the Crystallizer the only thing about X-Fi? No i dont think so.....
If you haven't noticed X-Fi is famous for its Advanced HD 5.0, can record via ASIO in Stereo and many more......No point telling you

Really? you mean i can throw away my X-plosion and audigy 4, and buy one of those? someone with a $400 card from last gen will do it and not care!?!?
Again, generic claims like this belong in big letters on the box. you'll only start a flame war pulling this crap on a forum.

No no one is telling you to throw away anything.....The X-plosion will prevail in some areas but certainly not the Audigy 4!

Really? the auzens arent any better? are we talking EAX 5.0 games only, or actually... every game? I'd like to see you beat the other auzentechs, since the overall quality is LOWER on the x-fi prelude than the other auzens. X-fi prelude is 24 bit, 96KHz - even the older audigy 4 i have is 24 bit 192Khz.

You measure Audio like 24 bit xxxKhz bla bla?? Good for you.....You are very knowledgeable...
This is Audio you cant measure audio by numbers!
X-Fi cards are the best for gaming..proven fact around the world!

front panel thing is useless for most. its just creative not wanting to let you use the front jacks on your case to make more money.

Totally agreed!

i've heard they use a different chipset, and do not support alchmey as well. havent verified this, its just what i heard.

All X-Fi excluding the Xtreme Audio uses the same chip!

i've never seen one not work. hell, even AC97 realtek cards and SB live 4.0 work in vista if you try. its EAX that doesnt work in vista, because creative want to force everyone to buy an X-fi and use alchemy.

No one is forcing you......EAX works perfectly with Alchemy.....Alchemy is given free to X-Fi cards!
If you dont like X-Fi dont bash the product! No one said anything about your Auzentech? I help a lot of people regarding audio but when i cant help with your setup,Im sorry but please do shove it up your own @ss GeeZ........

 

[imperialreign]

Do you think one is that stupid to compare it to a soundblaster 16? Have common sense..Im afraid i cant help you with that
It will have a difference compared to the previous cards like Audigy.....That too is all about your ears...If you cant notice the difference then im sorry.......

The difference with a X-Fi card isn't just about the audio quality over the Audigy lineup. The architecture of the card also allows for faster audio processing than the Audigy did, and can support more audio voices as well.

Yes for most people Crystallizer is complete garbage......But is the Crystallizer the only thing about X-Fi? No i dont think so.....
If you haven't noticed X-Fi is famous for its Advanced HD 5.0, can record via ASIO in Stereo and many more......No point telling you

The Crystallzier feature is actually great for it's intended marketing point - it increases the audio depth of compressed audio files. This feature is marketed for those who make use of a lot of mp3s, etc, and is also quite adept with gaming audio (seeing as how 95% of game audio is compressed to begin with).

Although, use the Crystallizer feature on high quality audio files, and you actually hurt the final quality of the playback.

No no one is telling you to throw away anything.....The X-plosion will prevail in some areas but certainly not the Audigy 4!

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

You measure Audio like 24 bit xxxKhz bla bla?? Good for you.....You are very knowledgeable...
This is Audio you cant measure audio by numbers!
X-Fi cards are the best for gaming..proven fact around the world!

True that the X-Fis are the best for gaming purposes.

Audio, like any other form of digital media, can easily be measured by numbers - if you have the equipment to do so, and the knowledge to make proper use of that equipment. The problem being with the audio realm, is that there is more "grey area" than if we were comparing graphics cards. Besides, though, gener rule of thumb is that the higher the sample rate (i.e. 96kHz vs 44kHz), the better the playback quality.

All X-Fi excluding the Xtreme Audio uses the same chip!

and which cip might that be? Are you refering to the Cirrus Logic DAC on the card; the OPAMPs? Or are you referring to the audio processor?

If you are referring to the DAC - you're wrong. The Elite Pro does not make use of the same DAC found on the other X-Fi cards, and neither does the Xtreme Audio.

But, if we want to get to your original quote:

question no.14
what are the differences between Xtreme Gamer and the other X-Fi? ----- half height cards, no A/D Link, and cannot be modded.

wrong, wrong . . . and wrong.

The XG and the early XA were both "half PCB" designs, and there are some revisions of the XG card that do have an A/D link. All X-Fi branded cards can be modded to improve sound quality, but for the average consumer this is beyond their scope of ability and care of implimentation.

No one is forcing you......EAX works perfectly with Alchemy.....Alchemy is given free to X-Fi cards!
If you dont like X-Fi dont bash the product! No one said anything about your Auzentech? I help a lot of people regarding audio but when i cant help with your setup,Im sorry but please do shove it up your own @ss GeeZ........

EAX does not work perfectly as of yet with the ALchemy drivers, and better yet, the EAX playback that one does recieve from the ALchemy drivers IS NOT the same playback one would hear if running WIN XP. The driver set is a workaround to a OS hurdle that prevents hardware acceleration capabilites of the cards.

 

[btarunr]

Sample Rate related capabilities do matter, especially if you have like say a high def audio source (8 channels, 48 kHz / 2 channels, would imply 48 * 4 = 192 kHz) Blu Ray discs have an audio output rate of just that. A recording company can choose to use 8 channel audio too on Blu Ray discs.

Electric, mind your language. We don't insult eachother here.

 

[Jimmy 2004]

I can see this thread quickly descending into a flame war - try to ease off the arguments otherwise the thread will be closed.

 

[Mussels]

Oh yes, it's on the box too. Strange, the CA20K1 processor is designed for 192 KHz analog output.

well the website says otherwise. ones wrong, i make no claims as to which one.

anyways i dont really care, i was just throwing in what i know - and obviously some of its innacurate.

 

[imperialreign]

well the website says otherwise. ones wrong, i make no claims as to which one.

anyways i dont really care, i was just throwing in what i know - and obviously some of its innacurate.

s'all good man, not really your fault, Creative doesn't keep up all that well with their advertised claims on their website and packaging. The Fatal1ty card still comes in the same packaging they were using a couple of years ago.

 

[Electric]

Audio, like any other form of digital media, can easily be measured by numbers - if you have the equipment to do so, and the knowledge to make proper use of that equipment. The problem being with the audio realm, is that there is more "grey area" than if we were comparing graphics cards. Besides, though, gener rule of thumb is that the higher the sample rate (i.e. 96kHz vs 44kHz), the better the playback quality.

generally yes it's correct... but not as simple as it sez....while it is very easy to measure with numbers, it's not very easy to measure the exact measurement

Take a Example!
if you have 2 different setup having exactly the same score in measurement...... i bet the sound itself wont be the same to your ears
And imperialreign i said the Crystallizer is complete garbage for most ppl......There are some who likes it. Im one of those ppl......

And no modding the XG is a waste as it cant be modded like a Xtreme music,FPS etc.....

And i was talking about the EMU20K1 Processor not DACs and OPAMPs.....

 

[imperialreign]

generally yes it's correct... but not as simple as it sez....while it is very easy to measure with numbers, it's not very easy to measure the exact measurement

Take a Example!
if you have 2 different setup having exactly the same score in measurement...... i bet the sound itself wont be the same to your ears
And imperialreign i said the Crystallizer is complete garbage for most ppl......There are some who likes it. Im one of those ppl......

And no modding the XG is a waste as it cant be modded like a Xtreme music,FPS etc.....

And i was talking about the EMU20K1 Processor not DACs and OPAMPs.....

<sigh>

as I stated before, rating audio output is quite a capable measurement of a cards abilities, if one knows what one is doing - but the "grey area" I refered to earlier, but didn't go into much detail about, is the fact that most review sites have very different setups, and on top of that, there is no "defacto" baseline to use for comparison (meaning, there isn't one or a few agreed upon audio files of a certain set quality) as there is in the gaming realm. To make matters more confusing, the audio manufacturers themselves use their own means of testing, and don't always share their methods either. Even more to complicate the matter, the age of the PCB components themselves have a major affect on the playback quality - of specific note, the audio capacitors used on any PCB; and if in the review/testing world, an audio card is shipped to a reviewer, who then tests and ships to the next reviewer, there will be a major difference between the quality heard by the first reviewer and the quality heard by the last; and the biggest grey area of all: one's own capability to hear audio frequencies. Two exactly identical testing rigs built with 100% identical components will sound exactly the same to one person - but someone else will swear it sounds different, and they'd be correct.

As to the rest of the comments . . . I recall you stating the Crystallizer was

. . . complete garbage . . .

, but now you state you also use it - nothing wrong with that, as it truly makes a difference in playback quality in game . . . but, backpedaling an argument like that is kinda frowned upon

I still can't say that modding a standard XG (not a Fatal1ty) is a waste, as the capacitors are of fubar quality, as well as the OPAMPs (like the majority of the X-Fi lineup). Due to how mass produced the Creative cards are, I can reason with them having to purchase mid-range components for PCB use . . . if they purchased top dollar components like Auzen and ASUS do, Creative's prices would be as expensive as their competitors - but, then again, the sound quality of the X-Fi cards would dominate the market, with only real competition coming from Auzentech.

You have to keep in mind, the XG audio card is designed specifically to target a single purpose - and that is superior audio quality and performance for gaming. The card is not marketed as being a major contender for typical audio listening and movies (whereas the XA card is meant to take that role - and both cards are priced the same, go figure . . .), it's not marketed at all for audio creation roles. The only X-Fi card that tops the XG in both performance and audio quality and is built for basic audio creation work is the Fatal1ty.


and that's it - I'm done with this discussion and don't intend to drag it out further.

 

[btarunr]

Just to add, the XG and XG FP come with the same capacitors, DAC.

 

[niko084]

I was reading a review of a sound card the other day and the guy said he saw a fps increase with a generic 5.1 sound card !!!

Very common even with a cheap card... More so on a weak system.

 

[Electric]

Your are wrong imperialreign If you take a Auzentech card with 24bit 96Khz and a Creative card with the same 24bit 96Khz they WONT sound the same!!!! You cant always go looking at the Specs!

Audio cant be measured looking at the specs! If you hear a difference then you can see a difference!......

For example....To my experience i categorize sound cards like this....

Games=X-Fi
Movies=X-Fi,Auzentech,Xonar
Music=ESI Juli@,Onkyo

 

[imperialreign]

someone else reading this thread, as I'm truly curious here - please tell me where I inferred that two different audio cards by two different manufacturers rated at the exact same quality would sound the same

 

[Electric]

Ok sorry about that but the thing mussels told was 24bit 192Khz Audigy 4 is better than 24bit 96khz Prelude(Indirectly)......

since the overall quality is LOWER on the x-fi prelude than the other auzens. X-fi prelude is 24 bit, 96KHz - even the older audigy 4 i have is 24 bit 192Khz.

 

[dj_dn]

I wish eax would just die so we can move to a better and open format.

Oh by the way I'm using a x-plosion and it sounds ok. But for cd play back i will allways turn back to my trusty cd player (Its a rotel). Who cares of all the specs when it sounds like crap at the end.

PS. The sound card industry is selling 'high end' sound cards to an mp3 listening generation, its a lost battle at the start!

Edit: Now this is a soundcard : USB DAC, this will place my x-plosion for music listening, and ill get my self a prelude for movies and gaming but ill have to change my Op-Amps first to some Burr-Brown's

 

[Mussels]

Ok sorry about that but the thing mussels told was 24bit 192Khz Audigy 4 is better than 24bit 96khz Prelude(Indirectly)......

no... i said that the newer product (according to the website) had inferior specs to the older one. I never stated which was the better card in regards to that.

 

[Mussels]

I wish eax would just die so we can move to a better and open format.

Oh by the way I'm using a x-plosion and it sounds ok. But for cd play back i will allways turn back to my trusty cd player (Its a rotel). Who cares of all the specs when it sounds like crap at the end.

PS. The sound card industry is selling 'high end' sound cards to an mp3 listening generation, its a lost battle at the start!

Edit: Now this is a soundcard : USB DAC, this will place my x-plosion for music listening, and ill get my self a prelude for movies and gaming but ill have to change my Op-Amps first to some Burr-Brown's

imo the x-plosion sounds great as long as you can tweak bass/treble on the speaker end of things. even after all this time, creative still has the best bass/treble boosters in their software... who needs a 10 stage EQ when 2 sliders does it all better?

 

[Graogrim]

and if in the review/testing world, an audio card is shipped to a reviewer, who then tests and ships to the next reviewer, there will be a major difference between the quality heard by the first reviewer and the quality heard by the last

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what's being said here. It sounds like a claim that a sound card's audio quality will massively deteriorate merely in the course of removing it from one system, shipping it elsewhere, and installing it in a different system. Then repeating that process a few more times. Is that a fair assessment? I'm not really interested in getting involved in the conversation at large here, but my bogometer is tripping extra hard on this particular claim. I mean really, who's putting this kind of voodoo out there for people to take seriously?

Sure I can buy that faulty or *significantly* aged board components can influence sound quality. Maybe even perceptibly. I expect it. But subjective environmental changes aside, as long as it isn't mishandled in the process simply moving a sound card between systems will not change its absolute quality.

 

[imperialreign]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what's being said here. It sounds like a claim that a sound card's audio quality will massively deteriorate merely in the course of removing it from one system, shipping it elsewhere, and installing it in a different system. Then repeating that process a few more times. Is that a fair assessment? I'm not really interested in getting involved in the conversation at large here, but my bogometer is tripping extra hard on this particular claim. I mean really, who's putting this kind of voodoo out there for people to take seriously?

Sure I can buy that faulty or *significantly* aged board components can influence sound quality. Maybe even perceptibly. I expect it. But subjective environmental changes aside, as long as it isn't mishandled in the process simply moving a sound card between systems will not change its absolute quality.

and in general - you're 100% correct on this. But the capacitors that Creative has employed for the X-Fi cards (Jamicons) are notorious for prematurely failing. That's not say that they're crap components, as they're fairly decent for audio quality use, but they have a nasty reputation for leaking and degrading very quickly. Some users have complained about the capacitors leaking within a month of ownership, some start leaking within 6 monhts to a year or better. Leaking isn't as much of a problem now that the APUs come with an installed heat sink on them, which is what aggrivated capacitor failure - but, they still degrade quickly, and if the card is run through an extensive testing session in a hot case packing thermo-nuclear components, they'll degrade even quicker. Auzentech and ASUS don't have as much of a problem - but there will still be a marginal difference between first review and last, as audio capacitors sound their best before "burn in" time (which can range anywhere from 25 hours or more, depending on the brand of capacitor).

 

[Graogrim]

That sounds like a build flaw (ala PNY's Ti4200 fiasco) by way of defective parts.

 

[imperialreign]

That sounds like a build flaw (ala PNY's Ti4200 fiasco) by way of defective parts.

yes and no - I mean, Creative chose capacitors that do have good quality in use, but the capacitors themselves are cheaply made and therefore age and leak prematurely.

But, considering how massively produced the X-Fis are, Creative, IMO, went with bulk orders of the capacitors for all uses on all of their cards, when, TBH, with audio cards you would want to see a few different brands on the card. The are capacitors that are meant for filtering audio, and capacitors that are meant for filtering power - and an audio card requires both kinds.

 

[btarunr]

Some believe the capacitors leaked/damaged because of the over-heating of the APU. A heated IC does cause overloading of other components such as the power conditioning circuitry. This was corrected by the heatsink on the APU which though didn't 'cool' the APU as such, kept it down to acceptable operational conditions.