Does Inclusion of Politcs and Political Correctness Impact Game Sales Negatively?

[rtwjunkie]

Upper Echelon Gamers has an interesting video commentary on how Ubisoft in particular, seems to have figured out that being political or checking all the political correctness boxes may actually hurt game sales. I actually hope more developers and publishers come to this conclusion. Like he says in the video, most gamers just want to play a game. They don't buy it because of its agenda. Apparently the gaming media thinks opposite of gamers?

I'll let you watch without any further commentary by me.

 

[R-T-B]

This just reinforces my stereotype that gamers are super triggerable if they won't buy a game due to it ticking diversity boxes.

But it may be true.

 

[Vayra86]

This just reinforces my stereotype that gamers are super triggerable if they won't buy a game due to it ticking diversity boxes.

But it may be true.

Gamers are always triggered, how else do you get frags Also don't forget a healthy six pack of energy drink, sleep deprivation and lots of peer pressure. Perfect recipe!

Regardless, I will say that personally I really don't like the political 'trend' reflected in games. It impairs the game because no longer are we talking about pure creative vision and direction, we're talking about picking nice sound bites to somehow lend credibility to a game setting or 'suit' the audience its for.

I don't like that kind of creativity. Its easy, its weak and it shows that as a creative director you're lacking in vision and unable to truly create your own product. It also shows you're afraid of public opinion. This LGBTQ movement is a good example: if diverse gender is a core concept of a game, then by all means include it. But if its not? Battlefield with completely out-of-tone characters is just so bad for that reason alone. It kills immersion. Its the same as having someone dress up in a Super Mario outfit in the same game. Out of place.

What I dó like is when games reference to actual events but redo it in their own way. A good example of that IMO was Call of Duty Modern Warfare (1). Another really great series with reference to reality (or near future, perhaps?) and a true show of brilliance in that regard, is Metal Gear Solid, especially 2 and 4. Part 2 with its focus on 'the Philosophers' and the vehicle it uses (control of information to create total control) was absolutely brilliant and many ideas are things we struggle with even today. And in 4, the harsh reality of our current day proxy wars and how war is likely to evolve, use of implants and again, that eternal desire for control. If you put the imagery of the first few hours of MGS4 next to for example recent events in Iraq, Mali, Libya, the similarities are frighteningly striking, including all the PMCs and just missing the actually controlled implanted soldiers themselves.

That kind of 'politics' - which is more on the philosophical level really - makes games more real and grip you by the balls. 'Popular' politics... instant no buy for me. I can visit Twitter for that. And I don't really consider it a question of whether that negatively impacts a game. I know it does and it just has to affect sales as well.

People like to be surprised and immersed in entertainment. Its not entertainment or fiction anymore if it tries to resemble the real world. Thats where entertainment becomes a political statement or documentary.

 

[erocker]

"The Media" wouldn't be relevant if people stopped watching/listening to it. Keep watching, sharing their opinions, posting links to their websites and videos all add to their growth. Just keep tuning in!

 

[R-T-B]

Gamers are always triggered, how else do you get frags Also don't forget a healthy six pack of energy drink, sleep deprivation and lots of peer pressure. Perfect recipe!

Regardless, I will say that personally I really don't like the political 'trend' reflected in games. It impairs the game because no longer are we talking about pure creative vision and direction, we're talking about picking nice sound bites to somehow lend credibility to a game setting or 'suit' the audience its for.

I don't like that kind of creativity. Its easy, its weak and it shows that as a creative director you're lacking in vision and unable to truly create your own product.

I don't see them as mutually exclusive. But I really don't see it much at all. I just really don't care.

The one exception is historically accuracy. If it was incorrect in the time, it should be presented as such. You can teach people racism/sexism = bad with negative stereotypes too, you know.

Ironically, people get confused on this point. Like the uproar over female generals in Rome 2, many of whom are actual references to individuals that existed in the real world. Because as every gamer knows, women never fought a war, they are just rape fodder. /s

"The Media" wouldn't be relevant if people stopped watching/listening to it. Keep watching, sharing their opinions, posting links to their websites and videos all add to their growth. Just keep tuning in!

Destroy my industry, you will not. Do that to ourselves, we will.

/unneccesary yoda speak

 

[Vayra86]

I don't see them as mutually exclusive. But I really don't see it much at all. I just really don't care.

The one exception is historically accuracy. If it was incorrect in the time, it should be presented as such. You can teach people racism = bad with negative stereotypes too, you know.

Ironically, people get confused on this point. Like the uproar over female generals in Rome 2, many of whom are actual references to individuals that existed in the real world. Because as every gamer knows, women never fought a war, they are just rape fodder. /s



Destroy my industry, you will not. Do that to ourselves, we will.

/unneccesary yoda speak

If it is actually supported by lore and/or historically accurate every male or female or whatever is in between has my blessing... But again, the BF V example I think is the best recent one, and the lore supporting the presence of those characters is highly questionable at best. It is crystal clear that this is not creative direction but rather enforced 'popular' politics from higher up. It doesn't taste very good IMO. And in that situation people said the same thing about female soldiers back in the day, but really...? We all know what happened there in development.

 

[hat]

I don't think the PC stuff has any place in video games. For example, see the FF7 remake trailer. People are already triggered by Barret. Why? IMO it's more annoying to me to see PC crap plastered all over video games and such where it doesn't matter. Focus on some real life issues.

 

[R-T-B]

If it is actually supported by lore and/or historically accurate every male or female or whatever is in between has my blessing... But again, the BF V example I think is the best recent one, and the lore supporting the presence of those characters is highly questionable at best. It is crystal clear that this is not creative direction but rather enforced 'popular' politics from higher up. It doesn't taste very good IMO. And in that situation people said the same thing about female soldiers back in the day, but really...? We all know what happened there in development.

Like I said I feel quite different about historical games. I just doubt the general gaming public would know the difference beyond "mah, minority/woman bad!" Sort of like how the public was infatuated with the idea of the Bonnie and Clyde romance that never existed likely because Clyde was evidently homosexual.

But my feelings towards gamers are a stereotype in and of itself I suppose. I just want it historically accurate when talking history. If I play a uboat sim, I don't need to pretend the entire crew is anti-nazi, as an example. So yeah. And yeah you can throw a gay guy in 40s germany if you want. Just don't have it end well (it wouldn't). Have that be the lesson: Be the change you can't exact in that setting.

We shouldn't all pretend the era that basically neutered Turing was full of tolerant people, because it's insulting to him and anyone who had stuff like that happen to them.

 

[Vayra86]

Like I said I feel quite different about historical games. I just doubt the general gaming public would know the difference beyond "mah, minority/woman bad!" Sort of like how the public was infatuated with the idea of the Bonnie and Clyde romance that never existed likely because Clyde was evidently homosexual.

But my feelings towards gamers are a stereotype in and of itself I suppose. I just want it historically accurate when talking history. If I play a uboat sim, I don't need to pretend the entire crew is anti-nazi, as an example. So yeah. And yeah you can throw a gay guy in 40s germany if you want. Just don't have it end well (it wouldn't). Have that be the lesson: Be the change you can't exact in that setting.

We shouldn't all pretend the era that basically neutered Turing was full of tolerant people, because it's insulting to him and anyone who had stuff like that happen to them.

Oh but this I fully agree with, and is also what I wanted to say but I think got lost in translation. Games that make a statement about historical events or facts are mighty fine. I really liked Assassins Creed 1 for that as well. I think I don't regard that as 'political' really and I also don't have to agree with the message to really enjoy such a game. About that - Far Cry 5. I had really hoped Ubisoft would have taken things a bit less comical wrt the whole Christian religious cult thing.

Ubisoft has a knack for games with those themes IMO. Its an interesting subject... how far can/should you go, its a fine line between brilliance and utterly silly.

 

[flmatter]

Too bad there was not an I don't care button.
Games are games, PC or not. They will always be at mercy of whoever makes them and what they perceive. If it interests me then I will buy and play it.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

SimHealth comes to mind. It was a blatant attack on Hillary Care in the 1990s and sold poorly because of it.

Diversity for the sake of diversity doesn't work in games. Take for example, "Ned" in Assassin's Creed Syndicate. "Ned" stands out like a sore thumb in the game ruining the immersion.

If diversity doesn't fit the character or the player reasonably pushes the character in that direction, then it only exists to be a thorn in the players eye. If the publisher/developer insists on making that thorn (e.g. Wolfenstein II) a major defining feature of the game, yes, a lot of people won't buy it. This isn't only true in games, it's true in media in general (e.g. the female version of Ghostbusters). I even recall some comics causing an uproar because well established characters were turned homosexual on a whim.

Hell, games even sell poorly because of DRM in it being politicized (e.g. Spore). They definitely sold less than their potential simply because they're practically advertising "you're all pirates and we don't trust you!"

I would say more broadly that there's a narrative around every media product and if that narrative becomes politics in any form (including DRM), it will underperform sales expectations.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Too bad there was not an I don't care button.
Games are games, PC or not. They will always be at mercy of whoever makes them and what they perceive. If it interests me then I will buy and play it.

Just for you, there is now.

 

[flmatter]

Thanks

 

[FordGT90Concept]

So watching the video and seeing these examples he provided... I think I know what is going on: the only way to get views for these kinds of sites anymore is to be controversial and what better way to be controversial than demand games have what players don't want?

 

[the54thvoid]

There's nothing wrong with diversity - life is full of it.

But publishers use it (erroneously) because they feel there is a demand for it. Since when did minorities win elections? They don't. What we have is middle-class white men steering the direction to somewhere they 'think' it will generate more money. It's not about appeasing people, it's about ticking a PR box that they thought might work.

On the flipside, we discuss this from a 'free' perspective. Consider in many backwards countries, women aren't allowed to watch football (soccer) at a stadium. Or that minorities are still widely persecuted for being different, no matter what country we talk about.

I hate the liberal fascism of being told how to think but I despise, even more, the fundamentally conservative approach that chastises or punishes those that don't follow a certain path. If people weren't such intolerant idiots in the first place, we wouldn't need such over-representation of minorities. And FTR, I have a disability but I don't want to see a disabled super-hero. No way. My disability is my battle - I don't need some band-wagon riding, corporate bean-counter telling me it's great to be disabled or that disabled folk are brave too. We're not brave, we're disabled and we deal with it. Simple as that.

Now, where's my cookie?

 

[phanbuey]

The thing is, you're never going to appease those kinds of people anyway... all a studio that goes full PC ends up doing is making some historically inaccurate, nonsensical, half-censored trash. And then the typical reaction, when fans start asking questions, is to call them degenerates and ignore any criticism.

The ones that just focus on making the game end up with what the developers and artists originally had in mind, and it always ends up much much better.

 

[Splinterdog]

I voted NO because, in spite of any agenda the developers might want to thrust forward, it's still just a video game and I'll lose myself in the action, regardless.
I remember the furore when Far Cry 5 was announced and the Steam forums practically imploded, with de riguer labels being bandied about like confetti.
Snowflakes and social justice warriors were the two most common assaults, not to mention trailer trash and the entire squabble ended up as an US and THEM argument so typical of gaming rants.
In the end FC5 went on to sell bucket loads (with SCJs, Snowflakes and so called trailer trash haters buying it in equal measure, I dare say).
As a target though, organised religious cults proved to be excellent target practice, for me anyway, so there's a kind of inverted message there.

 

[GoldenX]

I want good stories in the games I play with well fleshed out characters, I don't care about their appearance, or their political/sexual preference. But if the only thing you can write about is how many colours of the "spectrum of genders" you can use, then we have a big problem.

 

[SaltyFish]

For example, see the FF7 remake trailer. People are already triggered by Barret.

I like how people didn't care much back during FF7's original release but are full of butthurt/nerdrage about it now.

Personally, I don't care either way. As @flmatter said, it's in the hands of producers rather than consumers. It's not even a new thing. Developers and/or publishers have always been hopping on trends. Everything from tutorials, casual-friendly, multiplayer focus, mobile focus, etc. It's just the current flavor/trend at the moment. As usual, a vocal group (whether they're a minority is debatable) will kneejerk and whine. But at the end of the day, profit is king. Most vocal groups tend not to have as much clout as they'd think (echo chambers on the Internet and all).

Speaking of all this... remember how you could kill children in the earlier Fallout games but the later ones made them invincible? Heh. To be fair, a lot of games are already subconciously self-censored. The devs and publishers tend to avoid taboo stuff in their home country/domestic market so people tend not to notice this stuff in the first place. It's the "borderline stuff" that draws attention because about half the people welcome it and about half the people find despise it.

By the way, the poll question is semi-loaded. I'd be curious to see if such things would positively impact people's decisions to buy games. Probably moot given the political slant of TPU's userbase, but still...

 

[phanbuey]

I like that Kingdom Come Deliverance, and Warhorse took a chance with its game, and they got ROASTED all over the gamer media for it.

Still an awesome game, and they did really well. Just need more studios to be able to put out what they want to put out and let the market decide. No one wants watered down games.

 

[rtwjunkie]

By the way, the poll question is semi-loaded. I'd be curious to see if such things would positively impact people's decisions to buy games

You raise a good point, but I based it upon the theme of the video editorial.

I could have gone and divided it between two yes votes and two no votes, as well as don’t care, if I were trying to be PC.

 

[64K]

I have been getting the Liberal political agenda pushed at me for most of my life through the media. One example is when I was a kid watching TV Shows like The Jeffersons, Good Times and Sanford and Son portraying black people as saints and white people as idiots.

It's pretty obvious that a lot of pressure has been put on Publishers by activists to have their Developers push the inclusive thing. I don't really care as long as it doesn't get too ridiculous. If it gets to the point of being silly then I pass on the game. I'm looking at you Far Cry New Dawn.

 

[Flogger23m]

I think the OP is flawed because Far Cry New Dawn and Ghost Recon Michael Bay Explosion Festival: Breakthrough are the exact opposite. Just watch the video, you'll see a woman in a supposedly special forces group. How many women in real life do such a thing? Few, if any. And I'm not talking about female translators attached to SF units. Ubisoft panders to these demographics in cringe worthy ways just as much as EA games does. Ubisoft has fully embraced the "play as you feel" game design. See Far Cry 5/New Dawn again. You can choose gender and look regardless of how out of place it may be for an officer in Wyoming. And this was at the expense of having a real character with voice acting which was present in FC1, 3 and 4.

I'm sure Ghost Explosion will copy this as well.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I think the OP is flawed because Far Cry New Dawn and Ghost Recon Michael Bay Explosion Festival: Breakthrough are the exact opposite. Just watch the video, you'll see a woman in a supposedly special forces group. How many women in real life do such a thing? Few, if any. And I'm not talking about female translators attached to SF units. Ubisoft panders to these demographics in cringe worthy ways just as much as EA games does. Ubisoft has fully embraced the "play as you feel" game design. See Far Cry 5/New Dawn again. You can choose gender and look regardless of how out of place it may be for an officer in Wyoming. And this was at the expense of having a real character with voice acting which was present in FC1, 3 and 4.

I'm sure Ghost Explosion will copy this as well.

You might have missed the part in the video where Ubi is being attacked by media sources before the next Ghost for not pandering to special interest and political correctness.

 

[R-T-B]

And FTR, I have a disability but I don't want to see a disabled super-hero. No way. My disability is my battle - I don't need some band-wagon riding, corporate bean-counter telling me it's great to be disabled or that disabled folk are brave too. We're not brave, we're disabled and we deal with it. Simple as that.

As an Autistic spectrum person I appluad you. I too am a chickenshit, not brave. Brave would get me rapidly in scenarios I don't like.

I have been getting the Liberal political agenda pushed at me for most of my life through the media. One example is when I was a kid watching TV Shows like The Jeffersons, Good Times and Sanford and Son portraying black people as saints and white people as idiots.

It's pretty obvious that a lot of pressure has been put on Publishers by activists to have their Developers push the inclusive thing. I don't really care as long as it doesn't get too ridiculous. If it gets to the point of being silly then I pass on the game. I'm looking at you Far Cry New Dawn.

I laugh every time you include "Sanford and Son" in the liberal new agenda. I've seen the show and the black people in it were not portrayed as saintly and everyone in the show was an idiot. It was honestly a basic run of the mill vaguely racist sitcom.