OFFICIAL Fallout 4 (Discussion)

[Black Panther]

Thanks Jborg. The whitish fog is normal then I must assume...

 

[WhiteNoise]

wait, dont you need skill points and all sorts of different materials to build a town? how long have you been playing?

You don't need skill points to craft or build a town but you do need skill points in charisma (leadership) to start trade routes and assign workers.
When creating my character I always start off with at least 7 points in charisma. I now have around 12 or more points in it.

Building a town is easy especially gathering resources to do so. pretty much everything from small items, to trees, tires, old cars, wood piles, cinderblocks, furniture andthing at all you see on the ground or in house or anywhere can be broken down to mats and placed in your tool cab storage (separate from your standard inventory)

All you do is enable a work bench to craft, then walk away from it. Now you will notice a green glowing barrier that is quite large and it surrounds the work bench by so many meters. You can salavage just about anything you see within this barrier and the resources automatically go into the work bench storage. You then can walk around and start crafting anywhere within that barrier to start building your town.

Quite easy though the controls still kinda boggle my mind because they make it more difficult than it is truly needed.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Creation is Gamebryo.
Gamebryo's shaders got an update for the night lighting on New Vegas strip, it was updated again in Skyrim (forget why) after which Bethesda renamed it to Creation, but otherwise they are one and the same engine.
The code is the same.

Also regarding New Vegas, Bethesda didn't develop it, Obsidian did.
Bethesda had nothing to do with the game except licensing the engine. Which is why fundamental parts like storyline, voice acting, character development and general feel aren't anything like Fallout 3.
Obsidian care about quality, contrary to Bethesda.

This is why I sighed at the beginning of the comment.

I have a simple task for you, should you believe that you are correct enough in that statement. Prove it.

Here's what I've been able to dredge up, relating to the engine used for 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim.
Gamebryo is an engine which can be licensed by different developers.
3 and New Vegas both proudly tout that Gamebryo was their development engine.
Gamebryo takes a licensing fee for the use of their engine.
The Creation engine was cited and being used in Skyrim.

Based upon these facts we know:
1) If Gamebryo was being utilized to run Skyrim there would have been a licensing fee paid to them.
2) Bethesda said they were tired of the poor graphical fidelity of Gamebryo, which is why they were going with the Creation engine for Skyrim.
3) There are no pending suits against Bethesda from Gamebryo.
4) There is an established history of law suits for stealing engines (read: the Silicon Knights fiasco with Too Human and the X-men game).


So in order to prove that Gamebryo is Creation you'd need something like a creator's tool kit...oh wait, they released that to the public. Well, you'd need a game that was a financial success to make legal action viable. Oh wait, Skyrim took 2011 by storm and printed money. So with easily obtainable proof of infringement, and a big juicy target, why wouldn't Gamebryo sue Bethesda for their actions... I'll wait while you mount the logical defense of "well, the commands are the same." While you do that, allow me to postulate.

If it takes a person 10 hours to learn a thing, and they use said thing for 5 years, it will take more than 10 hours for them to unlearn it and learn something new. This is why manufacturing is reluctant to replace old machines, and why new machines often forego logical placement of things should there be a long established status quo. Likewise, code monkeys do better if their instruction set doesn't dramatically change. Having basic instructions change might be logical, but if you've type a line 10,000 times then changing what you type will be annoying and make you prone to failures.

Back now, let's see. You can prove the console commands are the same, yet Gamebryo hasn't pursued a lawsuit. We all understand that code can perform complex features in any number of ways (read: linking the frame rate to physics), so even if an engine was completely rewritten it code use the exact same console commands to do the same things. Heck, let's just throw all that out the window. You've obviously proven Gamebryo=Creation, so why don't you go to Gamebryo's creators and suggest they sue Bethesda. Given that the game is raking in money, along with enough cross-promotional crap (read: beer, pop, and everything else Bethesda is shilling), you should be able to sue them for enough royalties to never have to work another day in your life.



I was on your side of the argument once. Problem is, it just doesn't track through. Unless Gamebryo wouldn't defend their property, you're stuck with zero logical reason as to why they aren't suing Bethesda. So we're clear, it doesn't matter that Obsidian developed New Vegas. Bethesda dictated terms, as they were the publisher. It's hard to say, but they pulled an EA here. Develop the game to our specifications, or we'll find somebody else. Obsidian did. Objectively, I'd say much better than the Fallout 3 developers did. They, to my standards, did better with the same tools and justified why I am always willing to buy an Obsidian game early (while Bethesda's in-house games are a wait and see due to the burning I received from pre-ordering Skyrim).

 

[Pill Monster]

This is why I sighed at the beginning of the comment.

I have a simple task for you, should you believe that you are correct enough in that statement. Prove it.

Here's what I've been able to dredge up, relating to the engine used for 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim.
Gamebryo is an engine which can be licensed by different developers.
3 and New Vegas both proudly tout that Gamebryo was their development engine.
Gamebryo takes a licensing fee for the use of their engine.
The Creation engine was cited and being used in Skyrim.

Based upon these facts we know:
1) If Gamebryo was being utilized to run Skyrim there would have been a licensing fee paid to them.
2) Bethesda said they were tired of the poor graphical fidelity of Gamebryo, which is why they were going with the Creation engine for Skyrim.
3) There are no pending suits against Bethesda from Gamebryo.
4) There is an established history of law suits for stealing engines (read: the Silicon Knights fiasco with Too Human and the X-men game).


So in order to prove that Gamebryo is Creation you'd need something like a creator's tool kit...oh wait, they released that to the public. Well, you'd need a game that was a financial success to make legal action viable. Oh wait, Skyrim took 2011 by storm and printed money. So with easily obtainable proof of infringement, and a big juicy target, why wouldn't Gamebryo sue Bethesda for their actions... I'll wait while you mount the logical defense of "well, the commands are the same." While you do that, allow me to postulate.

If it takes a person 10 hours to learn a thing, and they use said thing for 5 years, it will take more than 10 hours for them to unlearn it and learn something new. This is why manufacturing is reluctant to replace old machines, and why new machines often forego logical placement of things should there be a long established status quo. Likewise, code monkeys do better if their instruction set doesn't dramatically change. Having basic instructions change might be logical, but if you've type a line 10,000 times then changing what you type will be annoying and make you prone to failures.

Back now, let's see. You can prove the console commands are the same, yet Gamebryo hasn't pursued a lawsuit. We all understand that code can perform complex features in any number of ways (read: linking the frame rate to physics), so even if an engine was completely rewritten it code use the exact same console commands to do the same things. Heck, let's just throw all that out the window. You've obviously proven Gamebryo=Creation, so why don't you go to Gamebryo's creators and suggest they sue Bethesda. Given that the game is raking in money, along with enough cross-promotional crap (read: beer, pop, and everything else Bethesda is shilling), you should be able to sue them for enough royalties to never have to work another day in your life.



I was on your side of the argument once. Problem is, it just doesn't track through. Unless Gamebryo wouldn't defend their property, you're stuck with zero logical reason as to why they aren't suing Bethesda. So we're clear, it doesn't matter that Obsidian developed New Vegas. Bethesda dictated terms, as they were the publisher. It's hard to say, but they pulled an EA here. Develop the game to our specifications, or we'll find somebody else. Obsidian did. Objectively, I'd say much better than the Fallout 3 developers did. They, to my standards, did better with the same tools and justified why I am always willing to buy an Obsidian game early (while Bethesda's in-house games are a wait and see due to the burning I received from pre-ordering Skyrim).

Well it should be obvious since the .ini commands from Skyrim, FNV and Fallout 3 all work in Fallout 4....but OK..

Visual C 2005, does that sound like a brand new engine...? Let me know if you need anything else.....




Edit, no offence but you can't have looked very hard....

Spoiler

 

[BumbleBee]

what is this bio-dome? please shut up about the engine. you guys are bringing me down with your crap. enjoy the game.

 

[Pill Monster]

what is this bio-dome? please shut up about the engine. you guys are bringing me down with your crap. enjoy the game.

Fair comment...

 

[BumbleBee]

has anybody got into Armor crafting? wondering if it's worth it and what type of armor to wear.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

So, I retract part of my earlier comments. After seeing the ending, the beginning being such a cliche is far more acceptable.

 

[Jborg]

Completely engrossed in this world... So much exploring to do... The crafting options are awesome.... I am only 4 hours in

Was just messing around with the building options.... pretty straight forward, the controls are over complicated and not thought out... I dont want to press R to scrap something, then Enter every time.... such a hassle if you want to scrap things quickly. Luckily its a quick fix for me with the logitech gaming software... My only issue so far with the building is its very tedious to go around scrapping every small resource. They should have some sort of option to scrap items within an area or something, the fact I have to select single items is annoying.

Also, for the houses you scrap.... Do settlers automatically move in and build or something? On the cleared foundations that is.

I really dont want to build my own houses individual wall by individual wall, while a cool option, I wish they just had some preset base models.... I may be missing something here. If somebody can enlighten me.

-Also the game is running fantastic, the game set everything to ultra by preset, have had some FPS movement, but mostly its a solid 60.

FPS seems to drop for seemingly no reason when you enter vats.... the FPS goes down to 30-35fps, not sure if its actual lag, or the game itself rendering in slow motion or something. Nothing major at all, just something I noticed.

EDIT: Nvm, I see some more premade structures, just missed them to begin with.

 

[hellrazor]

This is why I sighed at the beginning of the comment.

I have a simple task for you, should you believe that you are correct enough in that statement. Prove it.

Here's what I've been able to dredge up, relating to the engine used for 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim.
Gamebryo is an engine which can be licensed by different developers.
3 and New Vegas both proudly tout that Gamebryo was their development engine.
Gamebryo takes a licensing fee for the use of their engine.
The Creation engine was cited and being used in Skyrim.

Based upon these facts we know:
1) If Gamebryo was being utilized to run Skyrim there would have been a licensing fee paid to them.
2) Bethesda said they were tired of the poor graphical fidelity of Gamebryo, which is why they were going with the Creation engine for Skyrim.
3) There are no pending suits against Bethesda from Gamebryo.
4) There is an established history of law suits for stealing engines (read: the Silicon Knights fiasco with Too Human and the X-men game).


So in order to prove that Gamebryo is Creation you'd need something like a creator's tool kit...oh wait, they released that to the public. Well, you'd need a game that was a financial success to make legal action viable. Oh wait, Skyrim took 2011 by storm and printed money. So with easily obtainable proof of infringement, and a big juicy target, why wouldn't Gamebryo sue Bethesda for their actions... I'll wait while you mount the logical defense of "well, the commands are the same." While you do that, allow me to postulate.

If it takes a person 10 hours to learn a thing, and they use said thing for 5 years, it will take more than 10 hours for them to unlearn it and learn something new. This is why manufacturing is reluctant to replace old machines, and why new machines often forego logical placement of things should there be a long established status quo. Likewise, code monkeys do better if their instruction set doesn't dramatically change. Having basic instructions change might be logical, but if you've type a line 10,000 times then changing what you type will be annoying and make you prone to failures.

Back now, let's see. You can prove the console commands are the same, yet Gamebryo hasn't pursued a lawsuit. We all understand that code can perform complex features in any number of ways (read: linking the frame rate to physics), so even if an engine was completely rewritten it code use the exact same console commands to do the same things. Heck, let's just throw all that out the window. You've obviously proven Gamebryo=Creation, so why don't you go to Gamebryo's creators and suggest they sue Bethesda. Given that the game is raking in money, along with enough cross-promotional crap (read: beer, pop, and everything else Bethesda is shilling), you should be able to sue them for enough royalties to never have to work another day in your life.



I was on your side of the argument once. Problem is, it just doesn't track through. Unless Gamebryo wouldn't defend their property, you're stuck with zero logical reason as to why they aren't suing Bethesda. So we're clear, it doesn't matter that Obsidian developed New Vegas. Bethesda dictated terms, as they were the publisher. It's hard to say, but they pulled an EA here. Develop the game to our specifications, or we'll find somebody else. Obsidian did. Objectively, I'd say much better than the Fallout 3 developers did. They, to my standards, did better with the same tools and justified why I am always willing to buy an Obsidian game early (while Bethesda's in-house games are a wait and see due to the burning I received from pre-ordering Skyrim).

Dude, Gamebryo is sold with full source code access and no royalties - it even says so on their website. You don't think it's even remotely plausible that Bethesda, a massively wealthy company, worked out an agreement with Gamebase, a tiny company, to simply buy the rights to use the source however they wanted when Emergent got bought?

 

[Valeriant]

Can somebody post screenshots?

My game looks really washed out. Too bright, lack of contrast, everything hazy.
I need to know if this is normal or if it's just in my case.

Too much white. Looks like a nuclear winter but there's no snow..

As I mentioned before, it's the bloom simulation from the sun (or any really bright and prominent source of light) plus the engine global illumination. Take a look the these shots:

The histogram is for levels adjustment for tonal range and color balance. The left side is for shadows (black point or 0), the right side is for highlights (white point or 255). If the histogram is clipped then there will be losses. If the highlights are clipped like Morning and Noon above, then there are some bright pixels missing (eg. that road concrete, the pixels being all white). If shadows are clipped then there will be some dark pixels that are missing or having no detail. Gamma is what the mid-tones (middle or 128) of this levels adjustment, being in the center of the histogram. So correcting gamma to the right brighten the image or the opposite.

Washed-up or hazy-looking images are when shadows are not really dark. Or in the levels adjustment histogram, it's where the histogram's left side is way far from the black point or 0.

Now, take a look at the first row when there is sun. I took images from different days at different times from the same position looking at almost the same direction. When the sun is present, I got washed-up images.

The second row images are actually better, although global illumination was very low, the shadows are good.

The last row, I took shots with weather effects AND the sun is up. The images are also washed-up, although it looks good for fog and thunderstorm effects.

IMHO, the fix is by lowering global illumination when there is sun. Gamma correction could also fix this, as long as global illumination at night also tweaked, or it will be very dark (as now, second row of images above, nights have already good shadows).

Or just turn off Godrays.

 

[BumbleBee]

if you need help finding things

http://ca.ign.com/maps/fallout-4/commonwealth? hub page (front page)&utm_content=23

 

[brandonwh64]

if you need help finding things

http://ca.ign.com/maps/fallout-4/commonwealth? hub page (front page)&utm_content=23

THANK YOU! I was looking for the old church and finally found a youtube video that showed the way!

 

[erocker]

I've been building up my bandit base:

 

[MustSeeMelons]

Well you've clearly never played New Vegas.

Oh, but I have. After playing a lot of F3 I was unimpressed with it as it looked and worked basically the same as F3. Just recently played it through and it still felt like F3, better in places but basically the same game. To be honest, I like F3 more then NV because it pioneered the modern Fallout experience while NV improved it's rough spots and in the same time leaving much as it was. I want to explore F4 because it already looks different and feels different. Oh well, I'll just go and enjoy the game.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Dude, Gamebryo is sold with full source code access and no royalties - it even says so on their website. You don't think it's even remotely plausible that Bethesda, a massively wealthy company, worked out an agreement with Gamebase, a tiny company, to simply buy the rights to use the source however they wanted when Emergent got bought?

I think it is possible, but I'm still stuck on the logic of that.

Bethesda buys to source code for Gamebryo, with unlimited use and the ability to alter it at will in perpetuity. What they do is make Creation with it, what they cite as a graphics overhaul to an old engine. This is after a famously buggy Fallout 3, and hiring an outside developer to run Fallout: New Vegas.

Let's just say that they spent the effort to understand, tweak, and alter some of the underlying code in the engine to work better for their purposes (giving up the fact that Skyrim was much more stable than Fallout 3 from the word go). They've got to both understand the underlying source, determine how to upgrade it, implement the upgrades, and once all of that is done they've spent exactly how much money?

In my mind it's like buying a car. I could buy a new vehicle for $20,000. I could also buy something from five years ago, that costs $9,000. In the short term, I saved $11,000 on the car, but I need it to work. I spend $1000 on new tires, $2000 overhauling the electrical components (plugs, wires, etc...), $400 redoing the brakes, and by the time this is all over I've spent half a dozen weekends getting the thing up to running condition. After everything is all said and done, I've spent about the same overhauling the old car as I would have buying a new one. That just doesn't make sense to me.


Do I believe Bethesda copied code and structure from Gamebryo, absolutely. Do I believe that Gamebryo would sell their engine "because Bethesda threw enough money at them," no. Check back on their webpage. They've got games still being developed with their engine today. Cutting yourself off from a continuing stream of revenue on a recurring and huge title, for a single large pay day, is illogical. It's even worse when you look at some of the other big names Gamebryo is involved with. Why wouldn't Rockstar have bought Gamebryo out of their licensing? Why wouldn't Disney have done so? You ask what appears to be a simple question, when the baggage it carries makes it impossible to give a simple answer.


Edit:
Spelling errors

 

[INSTG8R]

For sure, I have Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim...graphics are not everything, the story is. Graphics are second to third. For me, anyway.

If I had not played TW3, I wouldn't have posted, I would have just bought Fallout 4 and been happy. But TW3 really raised the bar of what I thought an RPG could be. I guess my biggest concern is does the story lack as much as all the user reviews suggest?

I always liken Fallouts(I have 3, NV and 4)To Skyrim with guns. Same style of gameplay and storyline

 

[Pill Monster]

I think it is possible, but I'm still stuck on the logic of that.

Bethesda buys to source code for Gamebryo, with unlimited use and the ability to alter it at will in perpetuity. What they do is make Creation with it, what they cite as a graphics overhaul to an old engine. This is after a famously buggy Fallout 3, and hiring an outside developer to run Fallout: New Vegas.

Let's just say that they spent the effort to understand, tweak, and alter some of the underlying code in the engine to work better for their purposes (giving up the fact that Skyrim was much more stable than Fallout 3 from the word go). They've got to both understand the underlying source, determine how to upgrade it, implement the upgrades, and once all of that is done they've spent exactly how much money?

In my mind it's like buying a car. I could buy a new vehicle for $20,000. I could also buy something from five years ago, that costs $9,000. In the short term, I saved $11,000 on the car, but I need it to work. I spend $1000 on new tires, $2000 overhauling the electrical components (plugs, wires, etc...), $400 redoing the brakes, and by the time this is all over I've spent half a dozen weekends getting the thing up to running condition. After everything is all said and done, I've spent about the same overhauling the old car as I would have buying a new one. That just doesn't make sense to me.


Do I believe Bethesda copied code and structure from Gamebryo, absolutely. Do I believe that Gamebryo would sell their engine "because Bethesda threw enough money at them," no. Check back on their webpage. They've got games still being developed with their engine today. Cutting yourself off from a continuing stream of revenue on a recurring and huge title, for a single large pay day, is illogical. It's even worse when you look at come of the other big names Gamebryo is involved with. Why wouldn't Rockstar have bought Gamebryo out of their licensing? Why wouldn't Disney have done so? You ask what appears to be a simple question, when the baggage it carries makes it impossible to give a simple answer.

Didn't you read my earlier post?

Spoiler

Gamebryo can licensed for use in any way the holder sees fit, as someone already said. Why is that so hard to accept?
Bethesda own the source, and approached Obsidian to develop New Vegas while BethesdaSoft worked on Elder Scrolls. Gamebryo mostly renders graphics anyway......physics are (or were) handled by Havoc.
This info is widely available on the net.

**Now I remember what they updated for Skyrim - it was the Physics..dunno how exactly. I'll let u google the info, I don't want to hijack the thread anymore than it is.....

 

[AsRock]

Steam has roughly 5 million unique users with Skyrim in their accounts that was the last confirmed data I could find and its dated back in 2013.

Phyiscal Sales:

PC: 3.77 Million
360: 8.51 Million
PS3: 6.23 Million

So thats Physical sales as of Oct 3 2015

Steam player count via Steam DB has roughly 9 million users The data is not 100% correct. But is within the realm of probability so even with a leeway of 1 million. Skyrim on PC has around 7 to 9 million sales.

https://steamdb.info/app/72850/graphs/

So going by the data available. Skyrim on PC outsold the PS3 and 360 versions. Both consoles may equal a greater share of total sales. However Bethesda does not need to pay for patch releases on PC like they do on console. That cost alone can add up into the Millions of dollars range. Meaning for all intents and purposes. Skyrim had a larger return on investment on PC than any other individual platform.

Problem is Physical Sales can be nothing to go by, i nearly never go gamestop or any other brick morter shop. Like our GS is totally lame was has been for a long time now and they killed of the store what actually made them and done away with secondhand games and all that.

Maybe Physical Sale includes places like Amazon \ Newegg but who in the right mind would wait 2-3 days if they can just download it though steam. Were with a xBox \ PS4 and such hard copy is the way to go.

And if PS4 and xbox are any thing like PS3 was you can download them too, sale numbers are by one type is not accurate.

 

[BumbleBee]

I've been building up my bandit base:

I don't think the base building leads to anything meaningful :/

is it possible to lure civilians to your base with the radio tower then rob them?

Terminus was a lie!

 

[Octopuss]

Is the building part of the game really so simple and retarded that you can build structures without any support at all?

 

[BumbleBee]

the base building is mostly cosmetic. the game doesn't care what you do with the pieces as long as they fit in the green space or you complete the objectives. I was told the base building leads to happiness and happiness leads to generating resources so you can craft more things but because you're constantly picking things up in the world or scrapping them you're never in danger of needing those resources.

I could be wrong but the game doesn't explain any of this

if you Google "Fallout 4 base building guide" you will get so many hits but none of them actually tell you why you are doing this in the first place BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS!

 

[Octopuss]

I couldn't care less about the actual effect it has on the area, but it has to make at least half sense in the world of fucking physics. Is this really what the franchise has become? Oversimplified borderline arcade game for masses?

 

[BumbleBee]

it's a half-baked feature but it doesn't ruin the game. i'm enjoying Fallout 4. I just think it's silly when you spend 50 hours doing the main quest, side quests and still don't understand a thing about the base building.

 

[Jborg]

I couldn't care less about the actual effect it has on the area, but it has to make at least half sense in the world of fucking physics. Is this really what the franchise has become? Oversimplified borderline arcade game for masses?

Have you even tried the game?

I am 6 hours in and enjoying the shit out of this game..... The only crash I have had was related to using an older driver..... Updated drivers and the game has not crashed a single time.

it's a half-baked feature but it doesn't ruin the game. i'm enjoying Fallout 4. I just think it's silly when you spend 50 hours doing the main quest, side quests and still don't understand a thing about the base building.

This makes perfect sense.... I am actually enjoying the building feature... it adds to the game.... while not fully refined yet... I like it.

I hope there is some mod that allows you to scrap items within a certain area, will reduce the amount of clicking so much