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Microsoft Continues to Proclaim its Love for PC - by doing nothing at E3

FordGT90Concept

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Which is why Microsoft is the odd man out. Virtually everyone except Microsoft is milking the PC cash cow including Ubisoft, Electronic Arts, Activision, and way too many indies to mention.

My guess is Newell got tired of waiting for Microsoft to deliver upon the original promise of the Xbox (cross compatibility) and decided to see what they can manage with Linux. Microsoft has been nothing but a disappointment in the gaming industry since the Xbox debuted.
 
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Hey, he just recently took his position. It takes longer than that for the development cycle to catch up to philosophical changes. For example, if he ordered games to be pushed to Windows, they couldn't make that announcement at this E3 because they're not even close to ready. I'm not saying they did because what Spencer said gives me no faith but it is still possible.
So to recap are you for or against microsoft, you now argue they are crap since xbox which I agree, but need time to settle.
They haven't the time mate as was adequately proven in the mobile arena , if the next big thing was steam os for example by the time they react they will likely be irrelevant.
 
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The new CEO is focused on server and enterprise.. Maybe he will bring more of the rock solidness of server platforms to windows and will cut the bs from windows.
 

FordGT90Concept

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So to recap are you for or against microsoft, you now argue they are crap since xbox which I agree, but need time to settle.
They haven't the time mate as was adequately proven in the mobile arena , if the next big thing was steam os for example by the time they react they will likely be irrelevant.
I'm for Microsoft Studios releasing as many, if not more, exclusives for Windows than Xbox or no exclusives for either platform.

Remember, Windows Mobile existed long before iOS did and Android did. The market for such devices wasn't very big until Apple made it "hip." It's not really clear why Balmer ignored the threat from iOS and later Android. I think Microsoft was so caught up in the Windows Vista failure that they felt like they couldn't divert resources to Mobile until Windows 7 was launched to a good reception. At that point, they realized Mobile was garbage compared to the competition and started over with Windows Phone. Windows Phone went through the same development hell Windows Vista was stuck in (no one could agree on anything so they kept going with the status quo).

Ehm, it's just another symptom of Balmer's mismanagement. As is Bing.
 
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Sinofsky was behind windows 7. He is the one that got Microsoft back on track.
 
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I don't get the debate here. Microsoft being against gaming started with Vista, and has never let up. Their words mean nothing, just as in the past. They target the wrong audience, blame pirates for "lost sales," and then tell people that they'll buy their product or go eat a dick.

All of this started with the original Xbox and GFWL. MS promised a unified console and PC market with GFWL, which was supported by their decent connectivity built-in to the Xbox. Whenever that basically tanked (read: hackers converted the "console" back into the PC it was), MS created a divide between its gaming and OS division.

Years later, there's still a division. The dashboard integrates whatever it wants, and refuses to play games unless it is up to date. The Windows 8.1 OS is better than 8, but that's only because the sales figures were much lower than anticipated so MS decided to back-pedal on some decisions. MS is shutting down GFWL, because its never put enough effort and talent in to actually make the thing worth investing in.


Taking all of this into account, how in Hades does a new CEO matter? In five years he could, maybe, merge the OS and gaming segments to get a universal UI for devices meant to game. He could keep the mobile and server divisions separate, allowing three UIs to prevail. Of course, this means the unified UI dream was dead. The one thing MS never does is kill a high profile project because of a little thing like consumer opinion...

I see the new MS CEO trying to reverse a lot of the Balmer idiocy. At the same time, that'll take time. MS doesn't really have it. They need to replace Windows 7 with something new, that consumers want to buy. MS needs a success in the mobile market, because their $400 phones are being passed on because a $50 Android phone is more user friendly. The Xbox division is being beaten roundly by Sony, because of stupid business decisions and poor PR. If the new CEO can change the MS corporate culture then MS has a chance. As it stands, I see too many people eating MS's lunch. They'll be profitable until they day they aren't, and they'll be too far behind the curve by then to address any of the problems.
 
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We just need a host OS , Steam and others basically run the pc gaming show.
 

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@lilhasselhoffer: i agree almost entirely. The only thing i don't is whether Windows Phone is a miss. Those sales are doing well, and market share is increasinc every year isn't it? Anecdotally I can tell you at my workplace it seems every month someone has traded in their iphone for a windows phone. Sure that doesnt a trend make, but it is a microcosmic indicator. It's a good product, with smooth operating functions and lots of storage. One thing MS did positive in that field also was buy Nokia, so now they can have their own in-house phone like apple, which should bring down costs.
 

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The new CEO is focused on server and enterprise.. Maybe he will bring more of the rock solidness of server platforms to windows and will cut the bs from windows.

Microsofts new focus is "cloud-mobile first." I find it pretty entertaining that people sincerely believe Microsoft when they claim they want to improve PC Gaming. Their entertainment baby has been Xbox ever since it was released. Console markets are also more profitable.
 

FordGT90Concept

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They need to replace Windows 7 with something new, that consumers want to buy.
Not really. All they need to do is put a lot of the stuff back that they axed for no obvious reason. There's no reason why the Windows Phone/Xbox UI can't live as apps inside of the Windows environment besides Microsoft's insistence on not doing that.


MS needs a success in the mobile market, because their $400 phones are being passed on because a $50 Android phone is more user friendly.
Windows Phones are going for the same price or less than Android, why? Because Windows Phone is a far more efficient operating system that can run very well on weak hardware. Where Android continues to beat Windows Phone is the app store because a general reluctance by developers to develop for the Windows app store.


Console markets are also more profitable.
For Microsoft and Sony, sure. Everyone else? I have my doubts. Windows is a far more neutral platform which translates to higher profit margins for publishers. They can afford to sell games for $1 because they get 70%+ of that. It adds up fast.
 
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not really overly upset over lack of MS games coming to pc. im pretty sure that in the next 5-10 years most game devs will have given up on directx as an api any way, ms dont do the updates like they used to, and the updates they do seem to be tiny improvement but happen to only work on the newest os available.
The gaming market is a BIG thing for MS. really if open source OS's could run all the direct x only games. and have full driver support then really how many of us would actually use windows?
And im sure some people will be saying (well linux is harder to get things to work properly on i dont know what to type when i need something to happen) Well its not that different from what we had to do to get dos to work, people managed it. MS kept trying to change the damn commands "and still do" but we managed it. and eventually it did end up at a point where your gran mother can turn on a computer and manage to do roughly what she intended to do.

So i really think in 10 years or so most devs will be using open gl or some similar api "who knows what will get thought up next"
this will be brought about by company's like steam who want to make their own os/"console pc thing" which is not dependent on having a windows pc some where els to stream, the game from.
and hardware vendors like ati and nvidia who really would prefer to use open gl as it can better show case the full potential of there cards "if implemented correctly" game devs may want to do it differently simply because of what they are used to working with. and for a while gamers will say direct x was better whilst they devs get used to coding properly. But i really see that as the future.
That is something that would make a difference. Its hard to force people to upgrade to your next os just for direct x 23 (who am i kidding lol. 10 years time..? direct x 14.6c)
so really given that MS are really the only company who would want to preserve direct x as the main API. if they arent making pc games. or paying other devs to make them. then thats just one less rusty cog to slow down the wheels of progress.
 

FordGT90Concept

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If anything pushes developers away from Direct3D, it will be SteamOS and Android development. If you have to make an OpenGL render path to support those platforms, Direct3D becomes the odd man out and they'll opt to just use OpenGL on Windows too.

Then again, Microsoft must be doing something right with Direct3D because on multiplatform titles thus far, most developers have opted to use Direct3D instead of OpenGL.
 
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or a lot of money is going some where if you know what im saying.. (maybe that pc games development budget kinda goes missing?) and game devs like direct x a lot more then..
 
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If anything pushes developers away from Direct3D, it will be SteamOS and Android development. If you have to make an OpenGL render path to support those platforms, Direct3D becomes the odd man out and they'll opt to just use OpenGL on Windows too.

Then again, Microsoft must be doing something right with Direct3D because on multiplatform titles thus far, most developers have opted to use Direct3D instead of OpenGL.

http://richg42.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/things-that-drive-me-nuts-about-opengl.html

It's because OpenGL is a huge mess and DirectX, for all of its own problems, is the lesser of two evils. The blog is that of Rich Geldreich, one of the first people who worked on porting Steam games to Linux (and thus DirectX to OpenGL).
 
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There's no reason E3 should be considered just a "console show".

E3 is an annual trade fair for the computer and video games industry, not specifically a console fair. Furthermore it's presented by the Entertainment Software Association, and primarily showcases games, not any specific platforms. The bulk of said games, especially this year, are multi-platform titles which include PC.

Spencer's just making it obvious MS only care about their console end of gaming because it's their cash cow.
 
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Not really. All they need to do is put a lot of the stuff back that they axed for no obvious reason. There's no reason why the Windows Phone/Xbox UI can't live as apps inside of the Windows environment besides Microsoft's insistence on not doing that.

Not what I was shooting for. What I meant here was Windows 7 sold, but 8 and 8.1 has not. MS needs to develop a new product that does sell.

I agree that they don't actually have to write a new OS, and I agree that 8.2 or 9 would be just fine if they were 7.1 (reskinned and incorporating the functional enhancements of 8.1).


Windows Phones are going for the same price or less than Android, why? Because Windows Phone is a far more efficient operating system that can run very well on weak hardware. Where Android continues to beat Windows Phone is the app store because a general reluctance by developers to develop for the Windows app store.

I'd conjecture that Windows phone was a success if they could move units. There's always the anecdotal example of some people you know, but the problem is that MS is so far behind Android and Apple that it isn't funny.

The people who don't sign a two year deal buy an Android, because a free OS means a cheaper phone is still capable. People without technical knowledge buy an iphone, because it's idiot resistant. The tiny remaining market is power users that can use Windows phone, and those that are more than happy with Android. Once the generation that grew up with Android devices have real money, why would they buy into a closed platform with arbitrary restrictions on functionality?

You have a point with development of software, but I have to ask if it's too little too late. My cell phone is crap when it comes to being a business device. No matter if they can get office running on it, typing up even a small document will be murderous. I can't see how in Hades you'd complete a complex e-mail, or even broach excel. Like it or not, if the devices can't run excel and e-mail competently then your phone isn't a productivity device. Your phone is an advanced pager. There's a reason that hundred plus dollar pagers died out when cell phones didn't require car batteries any longer.

Android acquiesced to this long ago. You can competently run numerous programs for fun, receive e-mail, and have some programs that are business oriented. That balance is what MS has missed. They sell us the "connected device of professional connectivity," but fail to realize that a cheap device with decent phone capabilities (that allows 90% of users to play games while on the crapper) is the largest market. Until that realization hits home Windows phone is a very expensive blunder.

This lack of focus on their core market, while trying to sell us whatever it is they farted out, is where MS is failing. They give us a phone, without real connectivity. They give us an OS, without really asking us how we feel about a unified UI. They give us a video game console, and sell it as a very expensive cable box and DVR. Their market dominance allows them to still turn a profit, yet this coasting will only last so long. We've seen them try to change directions, but they do so far too slowly and in the most PR negative way possible. That shows when they basically dismiss PC gaming, while pimping out their "unified home environment" based around a PC.

I for one hope Steam OS steals a large chunk of MS's business. Valve is too large to try underhanded business practices on, so MS will be forced to change. I look forward to this because whenever MS is forced to change by the outside world they generally put their best foot forward, barring the recent history of monopolistic business practices. It may be the shot to the arm which makes all of MS's products better.
 

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http://richg42.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/things-that-drive-me-nuts-about-opengl.html

It's because OpenGL is a huge mess and DirectX, for all of its own problems, is the lesser of two evils. The blog is that of Rich Geldreich, one of the first people who worked on porting Steam games to Linux (and thus DirectX to OpenGL).
Holy crap that's a long list! :eek:

Not what I was shooting for. What I meant here was Windows 7 sold, but 8 and 8.1 has not. MS needs to develop a new product that does sell.
Everyone is avoiding Windows 8.# like the plague because it is unusable. What use is an unusable OS? They're trying to push people to an app infrastructure and the core Windows experience is not an app framework--it's a desktop. Even Mac OS X and Linux don't have an app framework like Windows 8. Windows 8 stands alone in this and it's repulsive on first use. Yes, yes, yes, you can mod it and all that jazz which was the same argument used to justify XP's fat start menu but the fact of the matter is the annoyance of the changes in Windows 8 have gotten so great, a lot of people would rather flip the bird at it than use it.


I'd conjecture that Windows phone was a success if they could move units. There's always the anecdotal example of some people you know, but the problem is that MS is so far behind Android and Apple that it isn't funny.
Windows Phone market share is growing while Apple's falls. The ease of use also gets a lot of conversions from Android. No one is predicting Windows Phone is going to lose market share. Yes, they are late to the party but they're swinging, and connecting.

Look at NPU's review of the Nokia 630. It's about the same price as the Moto Razr X off contract and better in many ways. Yes, Windows Phone isn't free but neither is Windows. When you buy software, there's an implicit responsibility to have quality, well maintained, well tested software as demonstrated by Windows versus Linux.

Again, Android is not hardware friendly. Windows runs brilliantly on even half of the hardware specs, if not a quarter, so the price of Windows Phone is more than made up in hardware reductions (should the manufacturer choose to do so).

Microsoft is addressing typing from two directions: speech to text which works surprisingly well and Word Flow which recently set the world record for fastest text.

And you're completely wrong about productivity software. Windows Phone, from the beginning, mastered the tasks of the phone (contacts, making and receiving calls, creating and receiving texts, and light web browsing). On top of that, they threw in productivity software which are all optimized for small screens. Yeah, you're probably not going to want to type a 100 page thesis on a smartphone but there's no reason why, while waiting at an airport, you couldn't proofread that document for errors or keep track of receipts in a spreadsheet. It's a freebie anyway. If you use it, fine. If you don't uninstall it. The phone doesn't care.

Windows Phone has games, just not as broad of a selection as Android and it plays them as well (if not better) despite having fewer hardware resources.
 
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The only one really committed to Windows gaming are the guys at CD Projekt RED. Granted Witcher is somewhat niche title because despite me loving The Elder Scrolls i couldn't really immerse myself into their world and gameplay even though it was still sort of interesting (i guess i have to ditch the TES experience a bit more). But i totally love their effort and the attitude they have. So much in fact that i bought both Witchers on Steam and also on GoG. And i'm even thinking to pre-order the 3rd one just to support them, even if i won't play their game all year long. No bullshit, no DRM nonsense, no crap with consoles, just pure PC gaming company. Because most funny thing is, 99% of companies who make billions of consoles today, had grown up with the help of dedicated PC gamers. And now they all ditched us like a grey old blind dog. No further actions required to know how much they really care about is. They can talk how much they care about us, but all i hear is blablabla.

If they were really dedicated to PC gaming, ALL Xbox exclusives would arrive to PC with maximum of 1 year delay (because they are exclusives which shouldn't last forever). How many Halo games have we got on PC's (apart from lazy ass level designed first one)? How many Gotham Racing titles? How many Forza Motorsport? Nill, zero, nada, none. FU MS.
 
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i would love to have forza on the pc.
but that would give me 0 reason to buy an xbox then..
 
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Everyone is avoiding Windows 8.# like the plague because it is unusable.


That's a bit extreme, isn't it? I mean you can USE Windows 8 out of the box, and if it were your only way to get online, you can bet the world would and could (heck, some MS-fanboys even did). I'll grant you it's annoying without mods, but it is usable. It's not like you are running OS/2 today or something...
 
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While I agree with the general sentiment that Microsoft time and again disappoints after it promises something, the fact remains that windows still is by far the best and most user friendly platform to game on.

Ideologically ofc we'd all be using open source software like Linux, but sadly no one seems to be willing to invest as much time in linux as microsoft did in windows in order to make it as user friendly and compatible as it currently is. Something most users expect their OS to be.

Hopefully for those that want to ditch windows and maybe microsoft asap valve with their steam OS will someday be able to replace it for most gamers. But tbh unless a major paradigm shift occurs in computing devices I don't really see that happening, atleast not for the mainstream PC gaming crowd.

One can hope! but eventhough they keep building up the bad vibe, I don't think anyone can dethrone them in the short-mid term.





As for people repeating that windows 8 sucks over and over again: anyone with basic computer knowledge will discover in their first couple of hours of use that in essence their workflow didn't really change at all. Mindlessly bashing windows 8 just because is getting a bit old. There really still is no comparison to be made between linux and windows 8 when it comes to gaming.
 
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If instead of Xbox they had empowered the small form factor livingroom PC with all the lalalala, they would have had less loses (same as those buying needless consoles and games) and Windows PC would rock the world.
 
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i am still yet to try 8. but am considering it. im still not 100% sure if after a few mods i can have 8.1 working just like windows 7 without any of that metro junk. if i can then i will try 8.1 when i can afford to. i dont know why they thought that i would want a layout like i had a touch screen.
It simply looks like cost cutting with development mainly centered around consoles and phones/mobile devices which was then released as a pc os.
that is something that i take as an insult. so i do have reservations about going to 8 or anything above 7.
i have had a windows os since windows 95. and dos prior to that.
 
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Back in the day some freaks installed Windows Server editions instead of Workstation/Home to get "rid of bloathware"... So nothing really has changed for them. :)
But you will realy love the Live tiles and Charms bar, really :)
 
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