not impressed - nvme vs ssd

Dragam1337 · May 14, 2024

quickchangethechannel said:
I did just that unfortunately it says my pcei link is x4 and capped at 4GB/s. Bummer!

Doesn't matter for actual usage one bit... as i have written previously, i barely ever see over 1.5 GB/s in actual usage, despite the fact that it can do nearly 7 in these artificial benchmarks.

freeagent · May 14, 2024

Page 5 still alive!

SchumannFrequency · May 14, 2024

quickchangethechannel said:
Never heard of those brands. But here's my Sandisk SSD vs Samsung Evo 980 Pro. Doing a lot of small jobs compared to 1 big job takes much longer. But should still be 50-100% faster.

In synthetic benchmarks. But in most realistic scenarios you will not even notice the difference:

960 Pro and Evo are still much faster than SATA-based drives in the synthetic benchmark graphs.

However, in most realistic situations you will hardly notice a difference, as you can see in the graph above.

P4-630 · May 14, 2024

freeagent said:
Page 5 still alive!

Just beat me to it!

not impressed

Well I'm impressed!... :laugh:

quickchangethechannel · May 14, 2024

Dragam1337 said:
Doesn't matter for actual usage one bit... as i have written previously, i barely ever see over 1.5 GB/s in actual usage, despite the fact that it can do nearly 7 in these artificial benchmarks.

For me it's always about beating my son to load up fortnite haha

Morbius2021 · May 14, 2024

P4-630 said:
You might want to borrow my i7 12700K p-cores @ 5Ghz and my 980 Pro.

More of this, I currently use a TR 7970x with 256GB of ram, photo editing, even batch level stuff is nice and snappy.

I also updated to a PCIe 4.0 drive last gen, but haven't made the leap to PCIe 5.0 drives yet, no massive upgrade there, just a number that doesn't provide big performance increases, at least in terms of how long it takes to do the work. I would also agree that the CPU you are using is terribly outdated.

Chrispy_ · May 14, 2024

freeagent said:
Page 5 still alive!

Can someone please explain the point of this thread?

OP raises a complaint about NVMe vs SSD and their sole point of reference is a workload that has nothing to do with drive speed in the first place.

Can't we just close this thread and stop it appearing on the frontpage? The only possible outcomes are either more trolling or more berating of the OP.

SchumannFrequency · May 14, 2024

Dragam1337 said:
Doesn't matter for actual usage one bit... as i have written previously, i barely ever see over 1.5 GB/s in actual usage, despite the fact that it can do nearly 7 in these artificial benchmarks.

Unigine Heaven contains some fairly significant bugs that were reported so many years ago and never fixed by the developer. The programmers of synthetic benchmarks are not always very talented and it is questionable whether there is any awareness among these programmers about where the most important bottlenecks are in reality. With most benchmarks it is fairly easy to find out that there is no strong correlation with real situations. Another problem is that developers sometimes optimize for very popular benchmarks, although these optimizations do not improve performance for realistic situations. Consider the browser optimizations for Octane 2.0 that generally caused real websites to load slower rather than faster.

quickchangethechannel · May 14, 2024

I just switched from Intel Optane to AHCI and my speeds have dropped massively. Only getting 1600MB/s on the 970 now. I can't be bothered to continue with it at the moment. Just gonna play something and put the TV on lol

TheinsanegamerN · May 14, 2024

Chrispy_ said:
Can someone please explain the point of this thread?

OP raises a complaint about NVMe vs SSD and their sole point of reference is a workload that has nothing to do with drive speed in the first place.

Well, now we're discussing the merits of higher speed NVMe with consumer workloads

Chrispy_ said:
Can't we just close this thread and stop it appearing on the frontpage? The only possible outcomes are either more trolling or more berating of the OP.

OP deserves it and it's funny.

AVATARAT · May 14, 2024

SchumannFrequency said:
In synthetic benchmarks. But in most realistic scenarios you will not even notice the difference:

Sorry, but that is not true.

This is similar to a 60Hz vs 240Hz monitor - some people can see the difference, others do not care or just cannot.

quickchangethechannel · May 14, 2024

The ultimate answer is if you are resizing images en mass then it just tough. Nvme isn't worth the extra cost just for that

AVATARAT said:
Sorry, but that is not true.

This is similar to a 60Hz vs 240Hz monitor - some people can see the difference, others do not care or just cannot.

Yea it's a bit like I've got an Xbox and a 60 inch tv, but would rather play on my 17 inch laptop. The xbox is mostly used to watch Netflix or my Plex server. I only bought the Xbox for a new controller lol £60 for a controller, but £250 for an Xbox with a new controller and 2 years of ultimate game pass. So the Xbox basically cost nothing. It's a good deal.

SchumannFrequency · May 14, 2024

quickchangethechannel said:
Yea it's a bit like I've got an Xbox and a 60 inch tv, but would rather play on my 17 inch laptop. The xbox is mostly used to watch Netflix or my Plex server. I only bought the Xbox for a new controller lol £60 for a controller, but £250 for an Xbox with a new controller and 2 years of ultimate game pass. So the Xbox basically cost nothing. It's a good deal.

I've created four threads regarding the 'real performance' of my EVO 850 SATA SSD:

Browser startup performance test

In the next test, we want to measure the browser's startup performance. Any browser may participate in this contest, so you are free to select your browser. You may also post if you get bad results. This is the startup time of my browser: 1.008s + 0.247s = 1.255s total startup time. The...

www.techpowerup.com

Word processor startup performance test

For LibreOffice Writer in my case: 0.945s + 0.198s = 1.143 s (total startup time after cold boot) The specific app was not opened once in the session before this test. Software: Manjaro -- i3wm -- Nvidia proprietary driver -- F2FS (root) file system Hardware: Intel 12600KF -- Kingston 6000 MHz...

www.techpowerup.com

What is your startup time for GIMP?

I suspect that you can easily time the startup time of apps in all operating systems. In FreeBSD you do this with the 'time' command. The time command displays three values (real, user, sys) The 'real' value has nothing to do with the startup time, it simply says how long the app has been open...

www.techpowerup.com

0 A.D. startup performance test

This is the speed at which it opens the first time: Result: 1.175 second total startup time Here you can see how fast 0 A.D. opens when I open it after it has already been opened and closed once. Result: 0.741 second total startup time This game has nicer graphics than the well-known Age of...

www.techpowerup.com

It would be interesting to compare the performance of the fastest NVMe drives with the results above in these popular apps/games.

If you have a fast NVMe drive I would encourage you to post your results in these (four) threads.

Chrispy_ · May 14, 2024

SchumannFrequency said:
I've created four threads regarding the 'real performance' of my EVO 850 SATA SSD:

Browser startup performance test

In the next test, we want to measure the browser's startup performance. Any browser may participate in this contest, so you are free to select your browser. You may also post if you get bad results. This is the startup time of my browser: 1.008s + 0.247s = 1.255s total startup time. The...

www.techpowerup.com

Word processor startup performance test

For LibreOffice Writer in my case: 0.945s + 0.198s = 1.143 s (total startup time after cold boot) The specific app was not opened once in the session before this test. Software: Manjaro -- i3wm -- Nvidia proprietary driver -- F2FS (root) file system Hardware: Intel 12600KF -- Kingston 6000 MHz...

www.techpowerup.com

What is your startup time for GIMP?

I suspect that you can easily time the startup time of apps in all operating systems. In FreeBSD you do this with the 'time' command. The time command displays three values (real, user, sys) The 'real' value has nothing to do with the startup time, it simply says how long the app has been open...

www.techpowerup.com

0 A.D. startup performance test

This is the speed at which it opens the first time: Result: 1.175 second total startup time Here you can see how fast 0 A.D. opens when I open it after it has already been opened and closed once. Result: 0.741 second total startup time This game has nicer graphics than the well-known Age of...

www.techpowerup.com

It would be interesting to compare the performance of the fastest NVMe drives with the results above in these popular apps/games.

If you have a fast NVMe drive I would encourage you to post your results in these (four) threads.

But most of the results, even on your old SATA SSD are under one second, and the longest you had to wait that I can see was a 5 second launch immediately after a cold boot.

Why do disk speeds matter if the real world impact is that it only opens 0.2s faster on an expensive NVMe SSD? For an hour's work I would imagine the application opening 0.2 seconds faster isn't worth even looking into.

dirtyferret · May 14, 2024

SchumannFrequency said:
It would be interesting to compare the performance of the fastest NVMe drives with the results above in these popular apps/games.

If you have a fast NVMe drive I would encourage you to post your results in these (four) threads.

W1zzard already posts some of these in his tests showing various NVMe and a few SATA SSD.

Dragam1337 · May 14, 2024

dirtyferret said:
W1zzard already posts some of these in his tests showing various NVMe and a few SATA SSD.

Interesting - reflects my experience with 980 pro and 860 evo perfectly.

A Computer Guy · May 14, 2024

Waldorf said:
@A Computer Guy
if using any form of ram cache, i would rather be concerned about data corruption/loss (possible bricking of a drive), when there is any brown/blackout,
so my priority would be on a UPS, not so much as ECC ram.

If you have ECC + UPS + NVMe with power loss protection, then you have pretty good coverage to stave off file corruption from multiple types of failure.

Waldorf said:
@AVATARAT
lol. how about finding stable oc BEFORE using ram cache?

That's a good point. Many NMVe use HBM and a bad ram OC could assist in destroying your data on NVMe.

Waldorf · May 14, 2024

@AVATARAT
lol, i know what you mean, cant even replicate reaching a top spot with my 2080S (was 2nd or 1st dont remeber),
as my Arous did oc BCLK on auto..

@SchumannFrequency
except synth benches are great for straight comparisons like amd vs similar priced Nv or between different tiers,
and get an idea what to expect, as not everyone plays the games being tested (for real world stuff).

@A Computer Guy
:cool:

but short of forum here, 9 out of 10 ppl i know using it, have none of those, my friend using it (to annoy me with R/W numbers)
runs a UPS, but only because of brownouts, and it being a 1.5Kw unit he bought from work for 50$.

A Computer Guy · May 14, 2024

Waldorf said:
@A Computer Guy

but short of forum here, 9 out of 10 ppl i know using it, have none of those, my friend using it (to annoy me with R/W numbers)
runs a UPS, but only because of brownouts, and it being a 1.5Kw unit he bought from work for 50$.

Living dangerously is a personal choice your free to make. :laugh:

quickchangethechannel · May 14, 2024

SchumannFrequency said:
I've created four threads regarding the 'real performance' of my EVO 850 SATA SSD:

Browser startup performance test

In the next test, we want to measure the browser's startup performance. Any browser may participate in this contest, so you are free to select your browser. You may also post if you get bad results. This is the startup time of my browser: 1.008s + 0.247s = 1.255s total startup time. The...

www.techpowerup.com

Word processor startup performance test

For LibreOffice Writer in my case: 0.945s + 0.198s = 1.143 s (total startup time after cold boot) The specific app was not opened once in the session before this test. Software: Manjaro -- i3wm -- Nvidia proprietary driver -- F2FS (root) file system Hardware: Intel 12600KF -- Kingston 6000 MHz...

www.techpowerup.com

What is your startup time for GIMP?

I suspect that you can easily time the startup time of apps in all operating systems. In FreeBSD you do this with the 'time' command. The time command displays three values (real, user, sys) The 'real' value has nothing to do with the startup time, it simply says how long the app has been open...

www.techpowerup.com

0 A.D. startup performance test

This is the speed at which it opens the first time: Result: 1.175 second total startup time Here you can see how fast 0 A.D. opens when I open it after it has already been opened and closed once. Result: 0.741 second total startup time This game has nicer graphics than the well-known Age of...

www.techpowerup.com

It would be interesting to compare the performance of the fastest NVMe drives with the results above in these popular apps/games.

If you have a fast NVMe drive I would encourage you to post your results in these (four)

Chrispy_ said:
But most of the results, even on your old SATA SSD are under one second, and the longest you had to wait that I can see was a 5 second launch immediately after a cold boot.

Why do disk speeds matter if the real world impact is that it only opens 0.2s faster on an expensive NVMe SSD? For an hour's work I would imagine the application opening 0.2 seconds faster isn't worth even looking into.

Every millisecond counts in this day and age. My old phone Oppo Find X2 Pro isn't exactly a slouch, but if I wanted to open an app I would have to wait like 2 seconds. If I need to quickly use Google, the fingerprint to unlock and then open the browser etc. I thought I would buy a new phone just to reduce that sort of thing by just 1 second. My laptop boot time is 4.9 seconds. My work laptop is about 5 minutes. Xbox Series S boot time with sleep mode on is 3 seconds from the moment you press the controller button. On my previous Xbox (Xbox One), it look forever. Just tried 360 elite, 23 seconds. 23 seconds down to 3 seconds. And then it will probably be like 1 second, and people will be wanting half a second, and so on

Waldorf said:
@AVATARAT
lol, i know what you mean, cant even replica reaching a top spot with my 2080S (was 2nd or 1st dont remeber),
as my Arous did oc BCLK on auto..

@SchumannFrequency
except synth benches are great for straight comparisons like amd vs similar priced Nv or between different tiers,
and get an idea what to expect, as not everyone plays the games being tested (for real world stuff).

@A Computer Guy

but short of forum here, 9 out of 10 ppl i know using it, have none of those, my friend using it (to annoy me with R/W numbers)
runs a UPS, but only because of brownouts, and it being a 1.5Kw unit he bought from work for 50$.

Can't these people just get a laptop?

Waldorf · May 14, 2024

@quickchangethechannel
compare price for at least 17in oled 240Hz lappy running a 4090,
vs spending on upgrade the pc to 7800X3D/mb/ram and 4090, reusing everything else..

quickchangethechannel · May 14, 2024

I used to get gaming rage back in the day of Bad Company 2, and I literally kicked the guts of out of my PC. Got a laptop after that but also had kids. There's just something about sitting at a desk with a PC that feels lonely to me. Where I am, I'm still "here" in the lounge with everyone else and not worry about the little ones knocking breaking my rig.

Also things might be different now, but towers didn't have wifi, Bluetooth and all that when I last looked. Convenience is another reason I get laptops.

Also also, my friend has a laptop with Kali on it, and he says its fun to mess with people's ring doorbells and kick people off the Internet which can do from the car. Sounds like fun

Dragam1337 · May 14, 2024

quickchangethechannel said:
Every millisecond counts in this day and age. My old phone Oppo Find X2 Pro isn't exactly a slouch, but if I wanted to open an app I would have to wait like 2 seconds. If I need to quickly use Google, the fingerprint to unlock and then open the browser etc. I thought I would buy a new phone just to reduce that sort of thing by just 1 second. My laptop boot time is 4.9 seconds. My work laptop is about 5 minutes. Xbox Series S boot time with sleep mode on is 3 seconds from the moment you press the controller button. On my previous Xbox (Xbox One), it look forever. Just tried 360 elite, 23 seconds. 23 seconds down to 3 seconds. And then it will probably be like 1 second, and people will be wanting half a second, and so on

Can't these people just get a laptop?

Laptops are significantly worse in every aspect than desktops except mobility (not to mention alot more expensive for the hardware you get)... hence why most enthusiast use desktops.

quickchangethechannel · May 14, 2024

Dragam1337 said:
Laptops are significantly worse in every aspect than desktops, except mobility... hence why most enthusiast use desktops.

I absolutely agree

Dragam1337 · May 14, 2024

Waldorf said:
@quickchangethechannel
compare price for at least 17in oled 240Hz lappy running a 4090,
vs spending on upgrade the pc to 7800X3D/mb/ram and 4090, reusing everything else..

Not to mention that a laptop 4090 aint a real 4090... it's using the same chip as desktop 4080, but with a much more tight power budget.

Processor	Ryzen 7800x3d
Motherboard	Asus B650e-F Strix
Cooling	Corsair H150i Pro
Memory	Gskill 32gb 6000 mhz cl30
Video Card(s)	RTX 4090 Gaming OC
Storage	Samsung 980 pro 2tb, Samsung 860 evo 500gb, Samsung 850 evo 1tb, Samsung 860 evo 4tb
Display(s)	Acer XB321HK
Case	Coolermaster Cosmos 2
Audio Device(s)	Creative SB X-Fi 5.1 Pro + Logitech Z560
Power Supply	Corsair AX1200i
Mouse	Logitech G700s
Keyboard	Logitech G710+
Software	Win10 pro

Processor	AMD R9 5900X
Motherboard	Asus Crosshair VIII Dark Hero
Cooling	Thermalright Aqua Elite 360 V3 1x TL-B12, 2x TL-C12 Pro, 2x TL K12
Memory	2x8 G.Skill Trident Z Royal 3200C14, 2x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Black and White 3200 C14
Video Card(s)	Zotac 4070 Ti Trinity OC
Storage	WD SN850 1TB, SN850X 2TB, Asus Hyper M.2, 2x SN770 1TB
Display(s)	LG 50UP7100
Case	Fractal Torrent Compact RGB
Audio Device(s)	JBL 2.1 Deep Bass
Power Supply	Seasonic Vertex GX-1000, Monster HDP1800
Mouse	Logitech G502 Hero
Keyboard	Logitech G213
VR HMD	Oculus 3
Software	Yes
Benchmark Scores	Yes

System Name	AlderLake / Laptop
Processor	Intel i7 12700K P-Cores @ 5Ghz / Intel i3 7100U
Motherboard	Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master / HP 83A3 (U3E1)
Cooling	Noctua NH-U12A 2 fans + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme + 5 case fans / Fan
Memory	32GB DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6000MT/s CL36 / 8GB DDR4 HyperX CL13
Video Card(s)	MSI RTX 2070 Super Gaming X Trio / Intel HD620
Storage	Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Evo 500GB + 850 Pro 512GB + 860 Evo 1TB x2 / Samsung 256GB M.2 SSD
Display(s)	23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p / 14" 1080p IPS Glossy
Case	Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window / HP Pavilion
Audio Device(s)	Panasonic SA-PMX94 / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system / Harman Kardon Go + Play / Logitech G533
Power Supply	Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W / Powerbrick
Mouse	Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless / Logitech M330 wireless
Keyboard	RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless / HP backlit
Software	Windows 11 / Windows 10
Benchmark Scores	Cinebench R23 (Single Core) 1936 @ stock Cinebench R23 (Multi Core) 23006 @ stock

System Name	TR7970X
Processor	ThreadRipper 7970x
Motherboard	Asus TRX50 Sage
Cooling	Noctua TR5 140
Memory	4x Color 5600Mhz x 64GB total 256GB
Video Card(s)	Asus RTX 4090
Storage	Sabrent 4TB Rocket Plus
Display(s)	LG 5120x1440 49"
Case	Thermaltake Core W200 BEAST AKA MINI FRIDGE :)
Audio Device(s)	Creative SB AE-9
Power Supply	Rosewill 1600 Watt Gold
Mouse	Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard	Mountain Modular System with media Dock
VR HMD	Quest 3
Software	Windows 11 Pro
Benchmark Scores	NA

System Name	Bragging Rights
Processor	Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard	It has no markings but it's green
Cooling	No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory	2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s)	Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage	32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s)	10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case	Veddha T2
Audio Device(s)	Apparently, yes
Power Supply	Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse	MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard	Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD	Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software	W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores	I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.

System Name	Skunkworks
Processor	5800x3d
Motherboard	x570 unify
Cooling	Noctua NH-U12A
Memory	32GB 3600 mhz
Video Card(s)	asrock 6800xt challenger D
Storage	Sabarent rocket 4.0 2TB, MX 500 2TB
Display(s)	Asus 1440p144 27"
Case	Old arse cooler master 932
Power Supply	Corsair 1200w platinum
Mouse	squeak
Keyboard	Some old office thing
Software	openSUSE tumbleweed/Mint 21.2

Processor	Ryzen 7 7900x
Motherboard	Asrock B650E PG Riptide WiFi
Cooling	Underfloor CPU cooling
Memory	2x32GB 6600
Video Card(s)	RX 7900 XT OC Edition
Storage	Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB, Seagate Exos 12TB
Display(s)	MSI Optix MAG301RF 2560x1080@200Hz
Case	Phanteks Enthoo Pro
Power Supply	NZXT C850 850W Gold
Mouse	Bloody W95 Max Naraka

Processor	faster at instructions than yours
Motherboard	more nurturing than yours
Cooling	frostier than yours
Memory	superior scheduling & haphazardly entry than yours
Video Card(s)	better rasterization than yours
Storage	more ample than yours
Display(s)	increased pixels than yours
Case	fancier than yours
Audio Device(s)	further audible than yours
Power Supply	additional amps x volts than yours
Mouse	without as much gnawing as yours
Keyboard	less clicky than yours
VR HMD	not as odd looking as yours
Software	extra mushier than yours
Benchmark Scores	up yours

System Name	Not a thread ripper but pretty good.
Processor	Ryzen 9 5950x
Motherboard	ASRock X570 Taichi (revision 1.06, BIOS/UEFI version P5.50)
Cooling	EK-Quantum Velocity, EK-Quantum Reflection PC-O11, EK-CoolStream PE 360, XSPC TX360
Memory	Micron DDR4-3200 ECC Unbuffered Memory (4 sticks, 128GB, 18ASF4G72AZ-3G2F1)
Video Card(s)	XFX Radeon RX 5700 & EK-Quantum Vector Radeon RX 5700 +XT & Backplate
Storage	Samsung 2TB 980 PRO 2TB Gen4x4 NVMe, 2 x Samsung 2TB 970 EVO Plus Gen3x4 NVMe, AMD Radeon RAMDisk
Display(s)	2 x 4K LG 27UL600-W (and HUANUO Dual Monitor Mount)
Case	Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic Black (original model)
Power Supply	Corsair RM750x
Mouse	Logitech M575
Keyboard	Corsair Strafe RGB MK.2
Software	Windows 10 Professional (64bit)
Benchmark Scores	Typical for non-overclocked CPU.

System Name	Main
Processor	R7 5950x
Motherboard	MSI x570S Unify-X Max
Cooling	D5 clone, 280 rad, two F14 + three F12S bottom/intake, two P14S + F14S (Rad) + two F14 (top)
Memory	2x8 GB Corsair Vengeance bdie 3600@CL16 1.35v
Video Card(s)	GB 2080S WaterForce WB
Storage	six M.2 pcie gen 4
Display(s)	Sony 50X90J
Case	Tt Level 20 HT
Audio Device(s)	Asus Xonar AE, modded Sennheiser HD 558, Klipsch 2.1 THX
Power Supply	Corsair RMx 750w
Mouse	Logitech G903
Keyboard	GSKILL Ripjaws
VR HMD	NA
Software	win 10 pro x64
Benchmark Scores	TimeSpy score Fire Strike Ultra SuperPosition CB20

not impressed - nvme vs ssd

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