Some e-cigarettes can increase risk of cancer by 5-15 times

[fullinfusion]

To try to curb the animosity here, I don't think anyone is arguing that ecigs are WORSE than cigarettes (though they could be, I find this really unlikely). It is however, quite possible they are still doing you harm and they are no substitute for quitting unless quite frankly, you just can't do that.

The idea is foreign to me because I can't envision many things I'd willfully smoke or ingest on the premise that it "might not hurt me, we just don't know yet." Sounds shady. But if you already smoked, you've already made that mistake and your options are limited, I totally get that. Addiction is tough. People need to have some compassion on that front as well.

No I'm not arguing with anyone here at all. Its the ppl that say its wrong by twisting there testing that gets to me. Think about this, tobacco has thousands of chemicals in its combustion. Vaping ingredients are pg and vg. Look at your food, a lot have vg already in it.. Pg is the safe alternative that , well look at it this way... If your dog drinks propylene it dies.. This is the safe kind alone other uses.. The flavoring is if its a good juice maker uses USDA grade food flavorings and nothing else.. Nicotine in low levels have been proven to slow down Alzheimer's ... Tbh I don't think they've proven that nicotine in low levels harm the human body at all besides being a stimulant and addictive.. Just like the morning coffee and the caffeine

To me its a hobby, the nicotine is just an added benefit to the flavor. There's a lot of time I don't even use nicotine and it doesn't bother me.

Smoking is a nasty killer but MHO this vaping is going somewhere and has helped a lot of ppl kick the habit. Like I said before my opinion is the government is loosing a pile of money in taxes every year and they hate it.. Canada its illegal to sell juice with nicotine in it but there's shops popping up everywhere.. Blu brand ecigs used to be legal until the government seen a dramatic drop in tobacco tax in British Columbia a number of years ago and banned them from being sold. How can you ban something that's legal in one way and not the other. Nicotine is present in both but they say its illegal!? Screw them! The Canadian sergon general was interviewed a few months back and he honestly said that ecigs are a safer way of getting nicotine into the body.. But couldn't comment on the effects of vaping and good for him.. Its about time someone wasn't the mans puppet in this matter and was straight up honest by saying its going to take a large number of years to see if any what side affects may or may not arise.

 

[Jetster]

Its not hard to see that putting anything in your lungs is bad. Back in the 60s they said filtered cigarettes were a safe alternative to the non filter. Nicotine its not good for you and if you must use, try an alternative route. Any other argument is just justification for addiction. I know that's not what you want to hear but I quite because it was killing me. I know if I take one hit off a e cig I will be hooked.

 

[Lopez0101]

Sports are bad for your joints. Running on concrete is bad for your knees in the long run. To live is also to slowly waste away in old age. Is vaping better than smoking tobacco? The consensus, so far, seems to be that yes, it is better for you. Is it better than not inhaling anything? No. We inhale tons of bad things just existing in this modern age. Being obese is demonstratably unhealthy. I'd rather people be a healthy weight and vape than be obese and not smoke anything.

Everything can be harmful to a degree.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Increases risk of cancer by 5 - 15 times? I would think that's good if smoking cigarettes in the long term increases the risk 100 fold?

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

Nicotine in low levels have been proven to slow down Alzheimer's ... Tbh I don't think they've proven that nicotine in low levels harm the human body at all besides being a stimulant and addictive.. Just like the morning coffee and the caffeine

Seems like fullinfusion has extensive experience of the real "evil weed"

I also smoked for over 35 years.. yes 35 years. I fucking loved smoking, everything about it.

The best bit when i started was just how much it pissed my parents off. That was a good idea wasnt ? proper punk then wasnt i ?

Then my brother went to work for Camel in the UK. Guess what, they HAD to smoke in meetings.
Fortunately lt meant unlimited smokes for me. Oh, thats handy.

Try pleurosy, i have, its when the lining of the lung seperates from the wall of the lung. Every breath fels like a stab from a knife, Guess what, i didnt stop smoking.

Cigarettes are highly adidtive, i have genuine personal experience.

In my own personal experience nicotine is more addictive than
alcohol
Weeed
Smack
Coke
Speed
or any of the vast menu of painkilers i have taken for years

The one drug i MUST have everyday is caffeine.

I will say it again... taking up smoking is the stupidest thing you can do, no, i will rephrase that because obviously there are other stupid things out there.
I have done many many stupis things. taking up smoking was the stupidest thing i think i ever did.

This topic is about vaping.
What i am trying to say is please dont smoke, try not to smoke as much as you do and please educate yourself.

Im on the patches so i still get my fix and a nice fix it is too. I smoke copious amounts of weed but i smoke it neat with a filter.

As with everything the choice is yours, if you decide to be ignorant of the facts placed before you so be it.

Remember Governments couldnt give a fuck if we smoke. They want our money, they also have interests in the tobacco companies.

If i could be bothered i would find out how much the UK govt makes in tobacco tax every year, but im ready for a spliff now.


To all my chums in the US. Do a bit of reading about your " founding Fathers" fucking hell they LOVED tobacco money.


In my opinion vaping is not safe. I think people smoking vapes in public look idiotic.

have you seen that stupid thing that Snoop Dog is selling.....Jump on the band wagon make yourself a fortune.

http://www.gpen.com/products/snoopdogg

my mate has one . Guess what .....its shit.

 

[Lopez0101]

Probably because tobacco was a cash crop back then, like cotton.

 

[Aquinus]

In my own personal experience nicotine is more addictive than
alcohol
Weeed
Smack
Coke
Speed
or any of the vast menu of painkilers i have taken for years

If you're into medical science at all, you might find this little wiki article on the FOSB protein interesting as scientist believe it plays in addiction with respect to long term DNA transcription changes in our genes that regulate this particular protein.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOSB

It's important to remember though, while all of those listed drugs are addictive, how addictive they are and their potential for abuse are very different. For example, someone who tries Cocaine for the first time might get addicted that night. For a cannabis user to get addicted, it requires long term constant use before the body start changing how it works because of the drug.

Then you compare something like a psychostimulant (I'll use Methylphenidate as an example, as it has a very specific mechanism of action and is commonly abused as a nootropic) where withdrawal consists of the opposite of what the drug does. The same is true of alcohol. The difference is their target. Methylphenidate (Ritalin) is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, as a result coming down results in sedation and typical occurrences of a sub-performing dopamine system, basically lack of energy and motivation; sedation. Alcohol on the otherhand down-regulates GABA in your brain which is the primany inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain. Abusing alcohol will substitute alcohol for endogenous GABA and your brain starts producing less GABA. As a result, when you stop, you brain basically goes into overdrive and certain neurotransmitters like Glutamate start firing extra fast, which is in part controlled by GABA, and can cause excitotoxcitity which you can die from, because your body can't counteract other neurotransmitter systems properly.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that the addictive aspect of drugs is directly tied to what it does in the body and how much you use it, but being dependent on a depressant is one of the worst things you can do to your body whereas ingesting cannabis is relatively benign compared to all of the others your listed. Although to say that cannabis isn't addictive at all would be irresponsible and untrue. It's just harder to judge cannabis because it has a lot of contradictory actions and doesn't impact all people the same way, probably due to different ratios of THC to CBD as well as variation in anadamide levels in the brain and CB1 receptor expression, but that's a discussion for another time.

Going cold turkey with nicotine might make you feel like crap, but it's not going to harm you nearly as much as withdrawing from a depressant like alcohol or a benzodiazepine.

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

Probably because tobacco was a cash crop back then, like cotton.

Exactly .... CASH ... and it is still a cash crop now. You cant even feed the by products to live stock, its illegal.
Talk about hipocritical. Our kids can smoke it but our cows cant eat it.


tobacco was marketed as a health product initially.

research the early LEGAL marijuana production in the US

research what the world had to say about it in 1912


It takes about 5 minutes to WIKI and it makes for an interesting read.


I would say for me cannabis is habit forming and not addictive. i definitely dont crave it like nicotine.

I can go days without weed and a few hours without nicotine. Hey we are all different. I think personal experience is a lot more valid than hearsay and speculation.

AN APPLE A DAY KEEPS THE DOCTOR AWAY.............

 

[Lopez0101]

Hemp production cut into cotton profits.

 

[AsRock]

No surprise here, i bet they all do just the others are at acceptable levels BS.

 

[brandonwh64]

Exactly .... CASH ... and it is still a cash crop now. You cant even feed the by products to live stock, its illegal.
Talk about hipocritical. Our kids can smoke it but our cows cant eat it.


tobacco was marketed as a health product initially.

research the early LEGAL marijuana production in the US

research what the world had to say about it in 1912


It takes about 5 minutes to WIKI and it makes for an interesting read.


I would say for me cannabis is habit forming and not addictive. i definitely dont crave it like nicotine.

I can go days without weed and a few hours without nicotine. Hey we are all different. I think personal experience is a lot more valid than hearsay and speculation.


View attachment 62168


AN APPLE A DAY KEEPS THE DOCTOR AWAY.............

I have to say thats the saddest roll job I have ever seen. A blind man with no hands could have did better.

Oh and BTW, The american heart association posted that vaping is safer

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-american-heart-association-says-vaping-is-safer-than-smoking

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

I have to say thats the saddest roll job I have ever seen. A blind man with no hands could have did better.

you make no sense with that statement. And i think you will agree we are all entitled to an opinion without prejudice ( you know..... "the American way" )

Oh and BTW, The american heart association posted that vaping is safer

Operative word being SAFER.... not safe.

Some e-cigarettes can increase risk of cancer by 5-15 times

may i remind you of the title of this thread

 

[Lopez0101]

It's safer not to drive a car than it is to drive one. I don't think anybody here is going to argue that vaping is harmless.

 

[Iceni]

I've seen that article a few times. What it doesn't tell you is what coils, voltage, and wicking material was used. It also does not tell you how the voltage was pulsed, And what the pull count was per cycle.

It is known that if you dry burn then the PG part of the E-liquid it can break down into nasty chemicals. It has to get quite hot for it to break down like this, And when it does break down the taste is unbearable.

Most regulated mods have a 10 second puff limit. And they have ohms, and wattage limits as well. You can set any coil to burn hot enough to produce the break down effect with enough power, And some people will push the coils in search of clouds. For the every day vaper this is not the case.

The biggest problem atm is not that vaping may have dangers. We know it does. The biggest problem is big money is working to try ban vaping or regulate it to the point of been useless. And it's not just big tobacco that are in on the act, Big Pharma are loosing out on nic replacement sales. As Ecigs have a higher cessation rate at a lower cost, Governments are loosing out because there is no tax like with tobacco and the laws to tax Ecigs have been slow to appear. And the final problem is Health Organizations like WHO that are attempting to shape research to make ecigs out to be more dangerous than they are.

I've been vaping myself 6 months now, I've gone from 24mg to 0mg. And the hardest part of the process. The initial switch. Once you have done 3-5 days on vape you will not want a tobacco cigarette. And then stepping down the nic content can be done without even noticing any side effects. You don't vape more, You don't crave more. It's almost like pure nic isn't addictive.

 

[brandonwh64]

you make no sense with that statement. And i think you will agree we are all entitled to an opinion without prejudice ( you know..... "the American way" )




Operative word being SAFER.... not safe.

Some e-cigarettes can increase risk of cancer by 5-15 times

may i remind you of the title of this thread

That maybe the title of this thread but do you really believe everything on the internet is true cause it can't be posted on the internet if its not true...

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

Oh and BTW, The american heart association posted that vaping is safer

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-american-heart-association-says-vaping-is-safer-than-smoking

do you really believe everything on the internet is true cause it can't be posted on the internet if its not true

Nuff said

Education and experience, thats my angle..

A wise man once told me " learn from other peoples mistakes" i am hoping people may learn from my mistakes.

 

[brandonwh64]

anything will kill you its just some thing will kill you faster.

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

anything will kill you its just some thing will kill you faster.

enjoy your formaldehyde.

 

[Lopez0101]

enjoy your formaldehyde.

I'll enjoy the absence of formaldehyde, which is right there in the research, because I don't dry hit or vape above 5.0v.

 

[Iceni]

I'll enjoy the absence of formaldehyde, which is right there in the research, because I don't dry hit or vape above 5.0v.

Your wrong if you think it's voltage alone that will cause the problem.

Heat is the problem. It doesn't matter what voltage you use if your coils are trying to get to white hot then your going to have trouble. The truth is when it's bad it's unvape-able. You can tell instantly something is not right because it tastes so bad you almost gag. There is very little chance that you would ever vape a device that is trying to kill you for more than 1 pull.

I can build a hot nano coil at 1mm on 30awg kanthal that is silly hot. In order to make it vape nice you have to know the airflow of the RDA, and be able to either bed down or over-wick effectively. They juice and airflow will stop the coil getting to the level of producing chemical breakdowns. If you get that build wrong you will know instantly.

As for the testing, If your not a vaper, and you just setup a coil on cotton and blast it for 20 min it's going to build enough heat to go bad, regardless of the build. It's not how we vape, but the article doesn't specify how long the pulse was, what the airflow was, what the average coil temp was. Without that information the article is useless.

 

[erocker]

Perhaps this discussion is better suited for www.generalnonsense.net.