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Tkpenalty's X1950~HD4k Clubhouse

Discussion in 'techPowerUp! Club Forum' started by tkpenalty, Jan 7, 2007.

  1. tkpenalty New Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    X1k~HD3k Clubhouse

    A support group for all X1950, HD2k, and HD3k Owners.


    [​IMG]

    This thread is a chat as well as an unofficial support thread.

    Note: Zero spam tolerance

    UPDATE: If you want to suggest a change, please do it with MANNERS. Please do NOT slander in a request. This applies to EVERYBODY, in wake of recent events I shall report YOU if you decide to step out of line. Thank you.


    For users looking at buying aftermarket cooling please read on, there are some very important issues relating to the X1950PRO using the reference cooler CTRL+F L1 to instantly gain access to it

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    =================================
    CONTENTS
    =================================
    =================================
    0a NOTICES
    =================================

    =================================
    =================================
    1a GPU Info.
    =================================
    This part provides information about each high tier GPU, only information on GPUs that have been released, this database is not complete and thus i would like your input into it.


    =================================
    K1 X1950 Series in General
    =================================
    The X1950 Series is basically a revamp of the already revamped X1900 series, in this, the X1950 Series is also compatible with AGP, via the Rialto Chipset. The main (or real) models available to the X1950 Series are the X1950XTX, X1950XT, X1950PRO and X1950GTs. There are several variants including sapphire’s X1950PRO Dual, which is in fact two X1950PROs fused on one PCB, allowing for internal crossfire. Initially the X1950XT uses the same core as the X1950XTX, the R580+, however with slower memory, the X1950XTX having the insanely high clocking GDDR4 (2x1GHZ).

    On a side note I recommend the reference cooling solution on the X1950XT/PRO/GT be swapped (excluding pre-installed aftermarket coolers/premium; including ASUS and HIS’s ICEQ III


    =======================
    K2 X1950PRO, GT RECOMMENDED
    =======================
    The X1950PRO, GT and X1650XT are all similar, they are all based off the R580 Core, however the X1950PRO and GT have a Quad disabled, while the X1650XT has two full Quads disabled (Rendering Pipelines), the X1950PRO and GT have the RV570, 80nm core and the X1650XT has the RV560 80nm core. The lower end models however do not use a disabled R580 core, they are radically different (however ineffective) designs. Overall RV570 clocks higher than the R580+ but they do not have the same performance (worse) due to the disabled quads (pipelines are manufactured in quads, 4 each, RV560 has two quads, or 8 ROPs, RV570 has three quads or 12 ROPs then finally the R580+ has the full four quads, or 16 ROPs, they heavily impact on performance in AMD/ATI’s GPUs but are less significant when compared to NVIDIA’s range). Moreover the RV570, RV560 DO NOT contain the extra quad that the R580+ has.

    The X1950PRO is basically a revision of the X1900GT in which several improvements are made, including:
    -Change from 90nm process to 80nm process
    -Improved reference cooler
    -Higher Clockspeed
    -Internal “Native” Crossfire, is basically just the use of two Crossfire bridges (Similar to SLI), a serial connection making crossfire more effective, and removing the need for a master and slave card or software crossfire. Many manufacturers have decided to adopt aftermarket cooling/premium cooling solutions, a list of brand names which use aftermarket/premium cooling is here (The brands to look out for):

    -HIS (IceQIII, made by Artic Cooling)
    -Powercolor (AcceleroS1/X2)
    -Gigabyte (VF700ALCU on all X1950PROs)
    -Sapphire (VF900CU on X1950PRO Ultimate)
    -ASUS (Premium ASUS Heatpipe cooler on all models)

    The Cheapest brands would be:

    -Jetway
    -Palit
    -Club 3D
    -Powercolor (Newer revision of X1950PRO, uses the reference X1950GT PCB and cooler; the Jetway version, yes its ugly, but its cheap and fast and will last longer than the digital VRM users… like me)

    The X1950GT is a slower clocked X1950PRO and is around 15% slower, initially the X1950PRO was released first to contend with the GeForce 7900GS, however it beat it in almost every benchmark (except OpenGL), and also beat the 7900GT. Thus ATI Decided to introduce the X1950GT, even though a bit slower it still easily beat the 7900GS, but not the 7900GT. It was introduced almost half a year later.

    The X1950PRO and GT are GPUs that need voltage increases to be able to be overclocked, just to obtain a 50mhz overclock on the core and have it run without artifacts needs the voltage to be increased, however problems arise here as no program at the moment supports voltage increasing. This can only be done by flashing the bios itself, go to Ketxxx’s bios thread to obtain bioses (a database of his bioses will be uploaded soon). ATIFlash is the only program that supports flashing of the RV570, other programs will not detect the RV570 as an adapter.

    ATI Tool 0.27 supports overclocking but is plagued with bugs, you have to enable driver level overclocking and overclocking the X1950PRO/GT to 621mhz will make the card unstable, due to the lack of voltages.

    The overclockability of the core is also determined by the “quality” of the core, generally the X1950GT uses the RV570LE, “Lite edition” in which it cannot achieve the clockspeed that the X1950PRO, RV570XT can. However as seen from statistics, this is NOT the case. In fact most X1950GTs are just X1950PROs with a Slower clocked bios; Sapphire's X1950GTs is a PERFECT example of this, being manufactured on the same machines, then just randomly selected to be a X1950GT.

    Overall the X1950PRO and GT are High-Mid range cards which boast excellent performance for their price. In crossfire they outperform one X1950XTX by a fair margin. In my opinion, I would recommend it for budget gamers. However read section L2 for more info.

    UPDATE 14/8/07: The stock cooling solution on the X1950PRO/GTs for Sapphire is now a sound solution, Sapphire has decided to use an aluminium + Copper mix for their cooler, moreover with the exhaust of the cooler facing towards the front; thus reducing any heat build-up on the PCB. Whilst it MAY be ineffective for overclocking it IS practical. Do not worry about the VRM issue anymore, as sapphire uses a large aluminium heatsink to cool it, with the exhaust blowing the heat away. If you are indeed scared it will burn out and die, don’t worry, fact is it will last for around 4~6 years before problems show. Older GPUs (9800 series) ran way hotter just for the record.

    UPDATE 1/1/08: The X1950PRO is an invaluable value card, mature drivers, good performance for today’s latest games, excellent price, buy it before it is EOL completely

    =======================
    K3a X1950XT
    =======================


    The X1950XT is a GPU which has the R580+ Core, it is a X1950XTX with lesser features, including the use of GDDR3 rather than the insanely high clocking GDDR4 and a lower clockspeed overall. It has the full four quads (16ROPs) and all the pipelines are enabled unlike the RV570. The R580+ is manufactured on the 90nm process and runs far hotter than the RV570. The X1950XT features Digital PWM/VRMs like the X1950PRO, it is the same length as the X1950PRO.

    The stock cooling solution on the X1950XT is a dual slot blower, it intakes air via a fan and the air blasts through the heatpipe and copper cooler, the exhaust then blows air over the VRMs which have a large red aluminium heatsink on it. In effect the cooler is great however it is extremely loud and thus being one of the major shortcomings (just to let you know, it sounds like an F1). The cooling solution on low fan speeds is mediocre, with temperatures soaring to the 70*C~80*C mark. Oddly enough the only company at the moment which ships their X1950XTs with aftermarket cooling is Powercolor, shipping their favourite AcceleroX2 with it. The major plus is that the AcceleroX2 is silent at max fan speeds. The X1950XT overall does not have such a major issue like the X1950PRO has.

    The X1950XT requires the X1950XTX Crossfire Master card in order to perform crossfire, the X1950XTX crossfire master slows to X1950XT speeds upon crossfire. It is priced a bit more expensive than the X1950XTX itself. Crossfire in this manner will heed excellent results.

    Overclocking the X1950XT is simple, download ATI Tool and overclock, just be weary of the heat once you overclock. The X1950XT has software voltage control as well as well as a properly working fan controller.

    UPDATE: At this point of time, the X1950XT is a card that is worth its money in terms of raw performance, however note that its possibly EOL

    =======================
    K3b X1950XTX
    =======================

    The X1950XTX shares the same core as the X1950XT (R580+), however everything else is almost entirely different. The X1950XTX has the Insanely high clocking GDDR4 which runs cooler than GDDR3, it has more lax latencies but overall the performance is better, it clocks to 1000Mhz on stock, this is without the DDR Multiplication, thus effectively 2000Mhz.

    One of the most notable features of the X1950XTX is the fact that it uses a premium cooler, the Cooler itself reassembles HIS’s ICEQIII. The cooler itself is an amalgamation of aluminium fins and copper heatpipes. The RAM cooling is a separate C shaped heatsink, that can be left on when water cooling is needed. Overall, the cooler can be said to be better than aftermarket, or on par as it is relatively silent.

    Everything else is the same as the X1950XT overall, also needing the X1950 Crossfire master.

    UPDATE: At this point of time, the X1950XT is a card that is worth its money in terms of raw performance, however note that its possibly EOL

    =======================
    K4 HD2400PRO/HD2400XT
    =======================
    The HD2400s are NOT for gaming whatsoever. They assume the role of the X1050s, however with one added feature, HDMI and as well as HD Decoding. I repeat, it is not for any gaming, well you WILL be able to play some games, but at like 640x480, not that that presents a major problem.

    Notably, the HDMI is something that makes this card HTPC worthy, moreover with the low heat output (due to the small die size and 65nm process) it furthers this role. Generally manufacturers use passive cooling solutions for these graphics cards.

    However, crossfire is a COMPLETE GIMMICK; don’t think about using Crossfire with two HD2400PRO/XTs, it is simply not plausible. The price tag is relatively low, thus making it a viable option for budget builds as well. Priced at around $50 to $60 USD.(<that’s overpriced btw.. some reason we get it cheaper in Australia)

    These GPUs are ideal for HTPC systems for their features that they pose, with superior UVD decoding compared to the NVIDIA counterparts, and as well as less heat output and power usage.

    Warning: Forget about DX10, even if it IS DX10, it will still need to run at extremely low settings, which cancel out the “new features of DX10”…

    =======================
    K5 HD2600PRO
    =======================
    A step up, but yet yields mediocre performance. Again, not a card designed with gaming in mind as the main feature. Many enthusiasts expected the HD2600PRO to be at LEAST as fast as a 8600GT, but this apparently is not the case. Again, HDMI and HDCP and HD Decoding is a winning feature, the pricing as well. Its yet another budget card, being cheap as well.

    The card runs cool, same as the HD2400PRO/XTs. Performance is around a 8500GT realistically, and worse sometimes, however don’t let this deter you, as the price tag is VERY cheap. It is still cheaper than a 8600GT yet, having a decent set of features as aforementioned.

    Same story as above, Crossfire with these cards is not worth it. One major problem that AMD needs to address is the specifications:

    128 bit Bandwidth
    4 ROPs
    120 Stream processors

    Highlighted in bold is the amount of ROPs, these pipelines are what the card needs to pump out vertexes and textures, the main problem that the HD2600PRO and the HD2600XT share is the fact that this is a low amount. While there is a massive 120 Stream processors which completely “destroys” the 8600GTS’s 36, the ROPs are a major bottleneck, preventing the 120 Stream processors from being utilized. AMD after manufacturing the cores saw this problem and the price of these GPUs is very cheap due to this.

    The GPU is a value

    =======================
    K6 HD2600XT GDDR3
    =======================
    Similar as above, a minor step up with a slightly better in comparison. Almost everything is the same, the performance however is somewhat better than the 8600GT. The higher core clock as well as the memory clock is to account for this. At first AMD planned to have an external power connector, but this has been canned due to the low power usage.

    Nevertheless the same problems are shared with the HD2600PRO. Being priced around $110 to $150 USD, it is somewhat similarly priced as the 8600GT. As stated before, it has HDMI, HD Decoding and HDCP, the large difference in price is due to the cooling.

    Sapphire has a standard model with a small fansink. It is satisfactory and keeps the card within the limits and isn’t too bad. Now we jump to Powercolor, a $20 more expensive, having a premium cooling solution; aluminium flower heat sink with fan. These solutions are common with the HD2600XT GDDR3. It is relatively difficult to find a HD2600XT GDDR3 without any sort of aftermarket cooling. Physically the PCB is rather small, ideal for HTPC environments with the decent heat output.

    To the next point, for gamers, the X1950PRO is a better option, but generally HDMI and UVD are invaluable for HTPC environments, this card would be a far better option in contrast, at the price range of around $140 USD on average.


    =======================
    K7 HD2600XT GDDR4
    =======================
    Everything is the same as above, except with several things:
    -Memory
    -PCB Size
    -Performance
    -Price

    This GPU uses GDDR4. Not only does the memory run cooler, it runs faster. There is no huge performance difference but it certainly improves. However, there IS one problem, Sapphire’s X1950PRO 256MB, (latest revision), is $20 cheaper and yet, will simply blow it out of the water. To put it this way, it ISNT a gaming card, but a multimedia, having HDMI, etc. Look somewhere else, no even the mid range 8 series are as bad. A 7900GS/X1950PRO is a better substitute if gaming is your code.

    =======================
    K8 R600 (HD2900XT, PRO, GT)
    =======================
    UPDATED: 1/1/08

    A MASSIVE step up from the HD2600 and HD2400s. The HD2600XT is the R600 that had a huge rumour base, one side saying it was a monster, the other saying it was a failure. However it is in between. With the Drivers constantly getting better, the performance of the HD2900XT is between a 8800GTS 640MB and a 8800GTX 786MB. It has all the features (except low heat output) that the other HD series GPUs have as well to add on.

    Performance wise, the HD2900XT is sometimes faster than an 8800GTX 786MB. It is fairly cheap, for the performance in brought in Q3/Q2 2007, however this has been superseded by the newer die shrunken high end GPUs from both sides (RV670/G92).

    Thus why the price of the HD2900XT is steadily dropping as the newer generation of cards do better for a lower price. However, being more relevant to before, the HD2900XT performed around a 8800GTS 640MB, with the drivers at the moment mature, we can now see its performance.

    However the major problem about the GPU is the monstrous heat output and the power usage. Guzzling 190W, and needing a cooling solution that is better than aftermarket solutions that were designed for the previous generation of GPUs, is one of the largest drawbacks of the GPU. Moreover, even aftermarket cooling yields a small drop in temperatures that is generally not worth it.

    Thanks to the dropping prices, this card now is a good contender in terms of bang for buck, a proper 500W+ PSU at the least is required to run this card, with the PSU made by a well known and reputable manufacturer.

    Overall the HD3870/HD3850 now is a far better choice to look at now thanks to their lower power consumption and heat output, while delivering virtually the same performance

    =================================
    K9. HD3850/HD3870 RV670 – MOST RECOMMENDED
    =================================

    The RV670 is initially a revised R600, sporting a massive die shrink which equals much less power usage compared to the predecessor, and slightly improved performance thanks to several small tweaks with the core. Overall, with less heat output, cooling is much less exquisite and the card generates less heat and uses less power in all.

    The performance of the HD3850 can be compared to the HD2900PRO, however performance varies greatly in accordance to the manufacturer; how far they push the memory, and what type of memory that they use both account for the performance. However the heat output of the card is NOWHERE near the HD3850s, requiring only a light heatsink, such as a VF700ALCU for reference to cool to temperatures that are good. (Example, ASUS ROG cooler, 35*C Idle, 48*C load) (105W Usage)

    The HD3870 on the other hand can be compared with the HD2900XT, however with more performance to boot. The Power usage is almost the same as the HD3850, as well as the heat output, only having slightly more heat output. (125W Usage)

    Physically both cards have rather satisfactory reference design coolers, the HD3850 having a cooler that is reminiscent of the X1950PRO’s reference cooler, with the MOSFETs requiring cooling once the cooler is removed, the memory ICs are bare as well. Overall, thanks to the low heat output the cooler remains fairly quiet, however this is thanks to the low fan speed which accounts for its satisfactory temperatures, in which most think are hell.

    The HD3870 on the other hand has a dual slot cooler which looks large, however the cooling solution is not very impressive, with a fan that is quiet as well, no heatpipes. Temperatures hover within the same region as the HD3850, and the cooler is a three piece, one mosfet heatsink, one RAM heatsink, and the GPU heatsink itself, all of which are manufactured from copper. Generally for aftermarket solutions, it would be wise to only remove the GPU heatsink as the MOSFET and RAM heatsink both are more than good enough for the task.

    Pricewise, the HD3850 is around $170-$200, indirectly competing with the 8600GTS which is FAR inferior, making the HD3850 even more desirable to buy as the performance more than doubles the 8600GTS.

    The HD3870 on the other hand is more around $250, competing with the 8800GT which costs more and offers less bang for buck, and has a rather loud cooler, lack of HDMI, etcetera. A less convincing argument to buy the HD3870 over the 8800GT is the noticeable superiority in the IQ and image quality of the two GPUs in comparison, moreover the more consistent framerate (a claim made by many HD3870 adopters, and 8800GT sellers that purchased HD3870s) might also be convincing-who wants to game when one second its smooth and the next choppy?

    Recommended brands:
    -Sapphire (Tier 1) (PCB construction quality, RMA warranty)
    -Gigabyte (Ultra Durable, good cooling, construction quality)
    -ASUS (ROG edition, good cooling, Company of heroes ftw!)
    -Powercolor (PCS/Extreme, excellent cooling)

    Personal comment in regards to gigabyte
    I noticed with the X1950PRO from gigabyte there were a lot of negative comments about the construction quality, which I think would be relevant to the HD3850/HD3870

    ”Cheap PCB”
    Gigabyte’s components are far superior in comparison to the reference design, moreover the reference design runs rather warm thanks to the less phases it has.

    ”Crappy cooler”
    The VF700ALCU is a heavily underrated cooler, it does far better than the reference HD3850/HD3870 and is quieter at the same time. I have no idea why people think when something’s old, its crap. Its not at all.

    Reference HD3850:
    [​IMG]

    Reference HD3870:
    [​IMG]

    =================================
    2a. Articles
    =================================
    [/quote]L1 ISSUES WITH THE X1950PRO & THIRD PARTY COOLING
    New owners of X1950PROs who would want to use aftermarket cooling should read this

    The reference PCB of the GPU is very bare with a low capacitor count, the reason is because the X1950PRO's reference PCB designers opted to use the VRM and PWM chips in place of a capacitor barrage. This in turn makes for a more simplified PCB in which not that many capacitors are needed; they replace the capacitors and MOFSETs. There is a double-edged sword to this, the fact that these chips generate such an immense amount of heat. People know what they are but on the reference cooler, they weren’t made obvious. They were also used previously on the X1900XTXs and XTs as well as X1800XTs, but they were made obvious by small red heatsink. Due to the design of the X1950PRO's reference heatsink shown below:

    http://img5.pcpop.com/ProductImages/500x375/0/254/000254415.jpg

    It is one piece and thus upon removal you also remove the cooling that the heatsink gives. Many people were unaware that the X1950PRO actually had them then problems arose when they decided to get aftermarket cooling (after all, the X1950PRO’s reference cooler isn’t sufficient), with the VRMs burning out because of the lack of cooling installed

    Chips indicated here are in need of heatsinking, if your layout of your PCB is the same regardless of cooler, if it has the VTEC or Pulse chip, then you have a VRM model.

    http://img.techpowerup.org/070226/dwwdwddwdw.jpg

    However many AIB manufacturers identified this problem and addressed it by using capacitors in stead of using the VRM units, this would make the GPU a little more cumbersome however. Sapphire for the X1950GT, now has used the X1950GT for the X1950PRO as well.

    Known manufacturers that use VRM unit X1950PROs:
    -ATI
    -Powercolor
    -Sapphire
    -HIS
    -Diamond (AGP MODEL ONLY)

    If your X1950PRO uses the reference cooler, It automatically is a VRM unit, thus buy yourself a pack of Aluminium/Copper heatsinks and install them, the spares, well put them on the MOFSETS.

    Notes:
    -Powercolor X1950PRO Extreme/Silent already has small black ceramic heatsinks, these are more than enough
    -Powercolor has now adopted a new PCB, which does not use VRMs for the normal models which do not use Arctic cooling coolers.
    -HIS Use VRMs but they have a large copper heatsink which is clipped on, same with the ICEQ III and standard model
    -Sapphire’s stock cooler is not enough, aftermarket cooling is needed if you want to have the card last.
    -Sapphire now has switched to the X1950GT’s PCB, VRM cooling is not needed, however left-over-stock X1950PROs will still use the stock coolerSapphire now uses the X1950GT Cooler, BUT the reference X1950PRO PCB, they use a large aluminium heatsink for the VRM cooling which is TWO PIECE. Give sapphire a clap guys :)
    -Sapphire’s X1950PRO Ultimate has a large gold aluminium heat sink for the VRMs attached by epoxy
    -ATI are still using the stock cooler, due to the fact that its full copper! Other manufacturers use an aluminium and copper mix, sapphire has recently even made a full aluminium.
    -Unless you want to overclock or have a silent PC, the normal cooler should do you fine.
    -Use these heatsinks, with the spares use them for something else http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118220[/quote]

    UPDATE: READ THIS:


    This guy didn’t read this thread... now to make it more obvious:

    =================================
    L2 Best air coolers for X1950Series
    =================================
    =================================
    L3. Best Air coolers for HD2400/HD2600 Series + Installation and Warning notes.
    =================================
    Please note, this section is to refer to coolers that will work with the HD2k Series, EXCLUDING the 2900s. Basically these coolers will work with the HD2400 and HD2600.

    First off we must note the heat output of the cards. The HD2400 Series generally tends to have a large and passive heatsink. The fact that the HD2400 Series is not intended for any gaming at all, but for a media centre justifies the lack of the need for any aftermarket solution to be installed. Due to the reasons that:

    -Aftermarket cooling will be larger than the stock solution
    -The stock cooling solution is more than capable of cooling the graphics card, due to the extremely low heat output of the core.

    These are the main two reasons. The only consumers who purchase a HD2400 will probably do no gaming at all. Installing aftermarket solutions moreover presents a installation risk, due to the extremely small die size. It’s a waste of money to buy an aftermarket solution for the HD2400 as the passive solution keeps the temperatures around 35*C~45*C, idle and load, which means that aftermarket cooling is a waste.

    Moreover, overclocking a card will not generate much more heat, thus it is safe to say that the HD2400 is excluded from this article.

    The HD2600PRO/XT however, is a different story. Generally their stock coolers are good, yet, may NOT be quiet. Overclocking these cards as well as voltmodding will somewhat overwhelm most stock solutions.

    Now for the coolers that are recommended for the HD2600/HD2400s:

    VF700ALCU/CU
    As I stated previously, this cooler should not be underestimated. It is inexpensive as well as being a quiet cooler, the HD2600 has a lower heat output in contrast to the X1950s (in the previous article). Overall recommended, I would purchase the ALCU version to cut down on weight however. Expect temperatures ranging from 35*C~45*C Idle, 45*C~50*C Load, at MOST. Be careful to check if the cooler is sitting flat on the chip however, temperatures much worse than this (60*C) is telling you that the cooler is not sitting flush and half of it may be having no contact, this is a substantial issue with the VF700s installed on GPUs with small dies and no shim.

    VF900CU
    Same as above, however a step up in price, the VF900CU should yield even better results. 30*C Idle ~ 45*C Load.

    Other coolers
    Generally… HD2600/HD2400s have an extremely low heat output, thus, any other coolers which are stated to be compatible can be considered. However, these two coolers are recommended for their wide availability, especially the VF700, with its low price and good performance.

    =================================
    Z1a. PERSONAL COMMENTS
    =================================
    Heres just some general advice.
    X1. Regarding purchases
    Anyway, this MAY be sort of going off topic. But the GPUs that you guys should be looking out for are the following:

    -X1950PRO/GT
    -X1950XT
    -HD2900XT/GT/PRO
    X1950PRO/GT
    Well you can say that they are pretty much hot cakes, cheap at around $150USD to $200, nothing in this range is close to it. With the constantly maturing drivers, the performance of this GPU is constantly improving, 7.6, 7.8 both had massive performance increases. Okay for those guys who think 8600GTS is better, scroll down and I’ll slam you with evidence that its NOT.

    X1950XT
    In the US it’s only a bit more expensive, there is NOTHING in the price range that is as good as it. Just be warned with the heat output and noise. Its much better than the X1950PRO for sure but the cooling is absolutely atrocious, no I’m not joking… a 7950GT is a possible option >.>.

    HD2900XT
    Well… with the constant driver updates which keep boosting the HD2900XT, the bang for buck is just astounding. It started from around a 8800GTS640, and now its faster and almost as fast as a 8800GTX… for the same price as a 8800GTS 640 is quite remarkable. The cooling sucks. Period. Wait for the SKUs to improve it a bit though, Gigabyte is a fine example, rather than two heatpipes, they shoved three in haha… it cools well in comparison to the normal ones though.

    UPDATES: Apparently most, manufacturers apart from sapphire have caught onto the fact that adding an extra heatpipe makes a HUGE difference in cooling peformance.

    Anyway, time to rave, what IS the point of the HD2k series, that’s UNDER a HD2900XT? Honestly same as the 8 series under the 8800s they both share the same problems. Bang for buck wise they aren’t very great. The 8600GTS costs as much as a 7950GT/X1950XT and what… way slower. HD2600XT same story, costs the same as a X1950PRO, yet gets blasted to china. Honestly unless you need HDMI or uber fast HD decoding, DX10 is a lame marketing excuse.

    To any AMD Directors heres something that you can improve about the HD2600XT:

    -4 ROPs > 12 ROPS
    -120 Stream processors > 100 Stream processors

    That’s all that’s needed to catapult the HD2600XT from a low end card to something that kills the X1950PRO… Same story with NVIDIA!!!! Can’t they listen? Yes, low heat output, but most companies are using their own solutions anyway. Is it really that hard?

    Z2. 8600GTS> X1950PRO; slamming time!

    Anyway apparently some people really think the 8600GTS > X1950PRO. Their argument is indirect and incompetent! X1950PRO CLEARLY is faster in most practical usages. 3D Mark 05/06 is NOT a viable way to really scope the performance of a GPU, Driver optimisations are ALWAYS the case. With a lower fillrate and everything else, it is the reason. Okay another argument, overclocking! Not EVERY consumer who purchases a GPU will overclock, moreover the stock cooling will completely prohibit any overclocking from being possible at all-you heard me NOT EVERYONE OVERCLOCKS. Moreover half of the Nvidia SKUs are lax with their Overclocking (except for good old EVGA :)).

    Update: Due to some certain user completely slandering in this thread, I shall clear things up. The 8600GTS is a GOOD card. However an X1950PRO is BETTER in terms of VALUE and PRACTICALITY. If you want a DX10 GPU, the 8600GTS is FINE. (Thanks to AMD’s HD2600XT being targeted towards a lower price range)


    So there you have it.

    Z3 Rumor Collection

    This is a collection of rumors of the latest products/etcetra. Please do not take any offense to this, it is only to inform people.

    ZX1. RV670

    Rumor confirmed

    Throughout the past months, (Q3, Q4 2007), we have seen many rumors of the RV670 Emerge. Here is a brief summary of what we know.

    The RV670 is a 55nm GPU that only requires single slot cooling. It is due to be released some time in November 2007. The RV670 uses a two phase power regulation circuit, without the digital PWM included, which means the need for capacitors is evident. Thus the mofsets on the reference design REQUIRE cooling.

    (Image shown is the HD3850)

    http://www.techpowerup.com/img/07-09-26/front.jpg
    http://www.techpowerup.com/img/07-09-26/naked.jpg
    http://www.techpowerup.com/img/07-09-26/closeup.jpg

    The stock cooler is a dual heatpipe, copper cooler which is single slot. The heatsink for the Mofsets is just a “quality touch” as far as I can tell. However, cooling them once you install an aftermarket solution is recommended. The HD3850 shall be clocked slower than the HD3870, how much we dont know, but the difference is enough to make a 10W power consumption difference.

    http://www.twrococ.com/video/3870/3870front.JPG
    http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/Genocide737/3870na.jpg

    The PCB design on the HD3870 is somewhat different. However it still has the same MOFSET positioning. The cooler in my opinion looks satisfactory, being the block inside that red shroud is the actual cooler. The Red shroud is for looks as well as a duct. I'd expect some manufacturers to improve on that block, as there is CLEARLY much space within that duct. MOFSETs in this case are cooled by a small copper heatsink, overall resembling the X1950XTX.

    The RV670 has been called the HD2950PRO at first, then RV670PRO and RV670XT, HD2950PRO and HD2950PRO Respectively. Recently this month it has been confirmed by a few "accidental leaks" that they are now the HD3850 and HD3870.

    [​IMG]

    However gigabyte has taken a logical choice and decided instead to use a three phase circuitry, reducing the load on the MOFSETs thus allowing them to run WITHOUT any form of cooling apart from air. Solid capacitors are used in addition. Moreover the inclusion of the VF700ALCU suggests the low heat output of the card. The cooling solution above on the HD3870 further reinforces this view. (NOTE THIS IS A FUTURE MODEL)

    In whole personally, I would choose this card over other manufacturers, solid caps, three phase, means that it will cope with overclocking better. While these can run passive, the other models will not be able to. The VF700ALCU is not to be underestimated as well!

    HD3850 = 95W LOAD Thanks SSXeon for these statistics
    HD3870 = 105W LOAD

    Overall, the main reason why it has such a power consumption, doesn equate to the heat it outputs with the core. The fast GDDR3 accounts to the somewhat "high" power usage (however 8800GT is worse). The performance of this new card is approximately the same as the HD2900XT, better in most cases, it is priced around $50 USD less than the 8800GT, and offers similar performance. The HD3850 on the other hand is only marginally slower than the HD3870, yet even cheaper. There is only the HD3850 in this “optimal” price range.


    Z4 Recommended Driver Sets

    This is a list of recommended drivers for each series, especially AGP. Note that these recommendations are based off observations from previous experiences, and clubhouse findings (meaning you don’t have to go through almost a hundred pages).

    AGP

    Recommended Driver: 7.6

    Somewhat problematic, the X1x with especially the X1950PROs, generally had major issues with AGP, with Drivers over 7.6. Issues such as display corruption, and the drivers not even supporting the GPU occurs with installation of the 7.7 and above drivers. With the 7.10 and 7.11 Drivers, there is no AGP support for the X1k and HD2k series.

    Overall for the X1k Series, users should use the 7.6 Drivers.

    HD2k/HD30k EXCEPT HD2600 series

    Recommended Driver: Latest

    The HD2/3k series both heavily benefit from performance boosts from every driver release. So why not install them? So far there has been a substantial increase in all the HD2k series GPU’s performance thanks to the drivers.

    HD2600XT

    7.10 Drivers, 7.11 drivers have some performance issues currently.


    =================================
    4a. CLUB MEMBERSHIP/MEMBER LIST
    =================================

    *Conditions and Rules* (as of the 26th of September 2007)

    -Members now must have 50 posts and over, OR have images of their system and GPU to join (Unless under special circumstances)
    -Members do not necessarily need to own a X1k or HD2k series product to be part of the club
    -“Fanboy wars” = Instant report. I will not tolerate any sort of fanboy war nonsense. You have been warned, this makes it impossible for people to browse through more than two thousand posts for some information, adding to how bloated it is.


    *Member List*

    Leader/Gods/Executives:

    -Tkpenalty 100%
    Boss
    Wile E
    First to DX10!
    Mitsirfishi
    2nd Crossfire King
    Standard Members:


    Clubhouse Regulars (These are usual members who roam in this thread, they do not have to have a X1k~HD2k Product, bold states that they are clubhouse members)

    -Tkpenalty
    -P_O_S_PC
    -Darknova
    -WileE
    -Craigleberry
    -Mitsirfishi


    oily_17 15%

    -Pinchy 15%
    boecke
    DaMulta
    [/quote]
    JDPower
    mitsirfishi
    Zubasa
    {JNT}Raptor
    xman2007
    AthlonX2
    anticlutch
    DOM_ATI_X800XL_PCI-E
    Maju
    Xnox202

    Batou1986

    AlcaponeJoin date: 9/2/07
    Kurash Join date: 9/2/07
    Imprerialreign Join Date: 24/7/07


    Panchoman- Aspiring to be an elitist :p

    Erocker
    Kebabs
    Binomalkilla
    Craigo
    Duffman
    Shadowfold
    KainXS
    ======================================================================================================
    Disclaimer: I am not responsible for anything that goes wrong when you buy your GPU, all this information is based off hypothesized analysis if there is anything incorrect, add my MSN: azn_luster_X@hotmail.com and then talk to me about it

    Thanks.

    Martin Huang
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2008
    CrackerJack and MKmods say thanks.
  2. WarEagleAU

    WarEagleAU Bird of Prey

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    I dont own one, but those are some sweet looking cards. Why are some impossible to find? What is so special about them? HIS does have a nice cooler, but if they sold it separately (which I wish they would do and branch out like Zalman and make somce AFM coolers, they would be bad ass, but then they would suffer on their graphics card sales) the two with the Zalman coolers (Gecube, Gigabyte and Asus) are bad ass. they should go well.
     
  3. Taz100420

    Taz100420

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    hey tk, i know this is off topic abit but i see ur getting a E6300 and i was looking at getting one in the near future and was wondering if its worth the $200usd or wait for the price to drop and is the proc any good?
     
  4. Lazzer408

    Lazzer408

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    I own 2 for crossfire and they won't give me even 1fps more when running crossfire. A single one was giving me 9500 in 3dmark 05. Not bad for a $199 card. Not bad at all. Too bad both of them arn't working together.
     
  5. Zubasa

    Zubasa

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    Got one from Sapphire and I still don't know what the "thermal issue" is. LOL
    OMFG Lazzer408 how you post 80 times a day is a mystery....

    Finialy we get a X1950 FanClub since there are already a thread for X1900 and X1800.

    We should get a sticky thread in the Video Card section like the others.
     
  6. Pinchy New Member

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    I get 10k in 3dmark05, oc'd the cpu and got 11k, then oc'd the card (max with ati overdrive) and got 11.5k

    Not too bad :D

    Anyone know of any proggy to OC them tho?
     
  7. tkpenalty New Member

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    thats because one of them is faulty.

    IMO, I'd want the Gecube TEC cooler one :D
     
  8. tkpenalty New Member

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    You know why your one doesn't have thermal issues? Several batches of the X1950PRO from Sapphire weren't manufactured properly.

    e6300s are nice. Cept' that my one was dunked in water or some shit before it came to my door step :/

    e6300 = e6400 after some light "OCing". They are virtually the same thing anyway, anyone who gets a e6400 is honestly stupid. For Conroes, only get either the e6300 or the e6600.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2007
  9. tkpenalty New Member

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    look at my cheap photoshop :D

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Canuto

    Canuto New Member

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    From all of those cards what's the best?
    I vote for the Saphire ultimate.
     
  11. Zubasa

    Zubasa

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    One thing I find truly weird is the fan only run at 45% at 70+ degrees :confused:
    And 0~69 degrees the fan is set to 41% in the bios.
     
  12. Lazzer408

    Lazzer408

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    Both of them have been replaced.
     
  13. tkpenalty New Member

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    :/ So yeh noone except you has that problem unfortuneately >_> (STOP POSTING SO MUCH)
     
  14. tkpenalty New Member

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    That is called a thermal issue, I expect that RABIT should have a function to turn the fan up to 100% for the whole time, especially for me (I don't mind a bit of noise).

    Sapphire's cooler has several bad batches but overall I seriously don't like the sapphire cooler although its very nice looking. The design of it is a little poor due to the fact that the majority of the cooler is made of Aluminium, added to that, the card doesn't even have heatpipes. That does not necessarily mean it sucks. Sapphire will need to send people a BIOS with a better fan configuration.

    That is why I recommend people get their X1950 PROs from either powercolor or HIS, taking note that the X1950 PRO Powercolor must be the Extreme Model.

    Any moderator why walks past please add X1950GT to the title.
     
  15. Lazzer408

    Lazzer408

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    I'm not speaking badly of the x1950 pro at all. I love it. It's crazy fast for the price. I just wanted to give the heads up incase ATI had a defective batch. There looking into it. 4 cards, 4 mobos, 3 sets of ram, 2 powersupplies ?? Trust me it's a card issue. ATI support was even stumpped. There rebuilding my system at there shop to recreate the problem. It hasn't been the first time a company had a bad run of something. overheating saphires? xbox360 problems? The list goes on. I just wanted to put the heads up incase anyone was going to run right out and buy a crossfire setup with 2 x1950 pros they may want to just sit tight a few days untill I hear back from ATI this week. And be nice. I'm just here trying to help. :)
     
  16. tkpenalty New Member

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    Yeh but you already had 80 posts today =_=... have a rest man..
     
  17. Lazzer408

    Lazzer408

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    It's just the weekend. I'm new so it'll average out in time. I have 2 other forums I'm dealing with as well and no I didn't sell the Miata I'm still working on the... oh wait wrong forum. :laugh:
    I'm done for today. This is a great forum. Lots of people to help. Friendly opinions with little flaming. Very nice for a change. :toast:
     
  18. tkpenalty New Member

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    Join the X1950 PRO Club.
     
  19. Lazzer408

    Lazzer408

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    Oh THIS club. :D Sorry it is late. Let me get my shit together here. System specs, pics, etc. I'll join fo-sho.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Zubasa

    Zubasa

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    I guess you should set up a member list.
     
  21. Pinchy New Member

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    Lets compare brands...

    What are everyones temps like?
     
  22. Zubasa

    Zubasa

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    How about post your own temps from your Accelero X2 first?
     
  23. tkpenalty New Member

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    Tomorrow, my rig is right now... "Brainless". I'm using my P4S8eholder.
     
  24. Pinchy New Member

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    im currently having some temp issues on my comp, so they r probably inaccurate :p

    My CPU thinks its at 11*C and 18*C, with one proggy, then 45* on the next :p...so im gonna sort them out first

    But my current readings are: 45*C idle and 60*C load (probably inaccurate)


    Not necessarily. The E6400 has a higher multiplier. So, at the same FSB, the E6400 will have a faster clock speed.

    For example, lets say the FSB is 400

    E6300 - 400 * 7 = 2.8Ghz
    E6400 - 400 * 8 = 3.2Ghz



    BTW thanks for adding me TK :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2007
  25. tkpenalty New Member

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    Nope, they aren't Accelro is a great cooler.

    EDIT: Oh also anyone who wants to can post their clock speeds of their X1950 PRO or X1950GT and Temps-even if you arent a member.
    Higher multiplier = less clock speed
     

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