1. Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Walled Garden Outfit Valve Accuses Apple Of Operating A Walled Garden

Discussion in 'News' started by qubit, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. FreedomEclipse

    FreedomEclipse ~Technological Technocrat~

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    13,441 (5.07/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,200
    the master lecturing the apprentice?
  2. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Messages:
    39,511 (13.50/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13,918
    I'd prefer if opinion pieces were kept in an appropriate subforum and News was news. I'm not a big fan of editorial pieces in the News section. I think the new news poster should concentrate on news. Just my opinion. :ohwell:
    qubit says thanks.
  3. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    28,225 (11.38/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13,580
    Location:
    Hyderabad, India
    [​IMG]
    qubit, [H]@RD5TUFF and erocker say thanks.
  4. [H]@RD5TUFF

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    5,615 (3.28/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,707
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
  5. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    28,225 (11.38/day)
    Thanks Received:
    13,580
    Location:
    Hyderabad, India
    I don't always react to news nazis. But when I do, I change the laws.

    j/k.

    That "Editorial" tag has been there for ages. The last time I wrote an editorial piece, I was flamed napalmed. So I didn't bother about it. Qubit is free to exercise that privilege.
  6. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    13,881 (5.10/day)
    Thanks Received:
    5,615
    Location:
    Cheeseland (Wisconsin, USA)
    No. Btarunr is the Sensei. We just study at his dojo. ;)

    Is that your opinion piece burning in your avatar? lol
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
    qubit says thanks.
  7. [H]@RD5TUFF

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    5,615 (3.28/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,707
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    /topic

    Valve should start working with the other OS's better, to increase it's market share.
  8. Frick

    Frick Fishfaced Nincompoop

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    10,399 (3.39/day)
    Thanks Received:
    2,093
    What was that about? I remember something about opinions..
  9. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    9,821 (4.06/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,480
    Ah, there nothing quite like recursion is there? :D Now, let me do an editorial on your editorial...

    Yes, editorials are good for making discussion. I saw this today in my RSS feed and thought it would make an excellent Sunday piece. I mean seriously, both companies are taking the p*ss - and this is coming from someone who uses Steam all the time and has spent literally hundreds of pounds on games with them.

    Thanks for the kind words. :toast:

    Normally I'd agree with you, but I felt that in this instance it was fine to set up the scenario as I did - classic artistic licence! :)

    I think I did that. :confused: I don't think going into the fine details of every lock-in on either side would actually make the article very interesting and crucially, make it considerably longer, so I just gave a few examples.

    Anyway, thanks for your critique; it's always welcome. :toast:

    I think that's what the Editorial button is for and is why I added it later, as it became apparent that this really did fit in that category. The boundaries can be somewhat blurred, believe me, lol. Anyway, makes for a good Sunday read. :)

    Yeah, you're not kidding! :eek: :) Anyway, I've got my flameproof suit on, so I'm good. It's effective up to 1000 degrees, but TPU is at 1200, so I'll just have to tough it out. :laugh:
    PVTCaboose1337 says thanks.
  10. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    13,881 (5.10/day)
    Thanks Received:
    5,615
    Location:
    Cheeseland (Wisconsin, USA)
    It's probably a cost (to implement and maintain) vs. ROI.
    I would really be surprised if they have not looked into it.
  11. jpierce55

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,335 (0.47/day)
    Thanks Received:
    91
    This kind of biased stuff does not belong as a news post at all!
  12. TheLaughingMan

    TheLaughingMan

    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    Messages:
    5,073 (2.67/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,292
    Location:
    Marietta, GA USA
    Ummm that is false. Steam is not a Walled Garden as it allows for a certain level of control that you do not get from Apple. On Steam you can change the appearance via user created skins, add games to the library outside of Steam, and user created mods to popular Valve games via the freely provided SDK. You do not get any of that from Apple. They will not let you mod or change anything about their software you are borrowing.

    This whole article is based on personal conjecture and not facts. Steam is as much a "Walled Garden" as WinAMP and Songbird.
    AndreiD and NC37 say thanks.
  13. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    9,821 (4.06/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,480
    I'm thinking about the crucial area of being able to sell on your unwanted games - that's a straightjacket alright. It's true that they allow you more freedoms in other areas, so I explained that in my article and even acknowledged it as the "best" DRM out there.
    TheLaughingMan says thanks.
  14. Kreij

    Kreij Senior Monkey Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    13,881 (5.10/day)
    Thanks Received:
    5,615
    Location:
    Cheeseland (Wisconsin, USA)
    Wait ! That's your opinion! Did you just write an editorial on Qubits editoral? :roll:
    Sunday Editorials FTW !!

    On topic : Every software distribution system, by nature, has some closed aspects to it.
    Otherwise it's just a torrent site.
  15. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,031 (4.66/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,366
    Id rather have physical media in my hands when i buy games even tho its just code on a piece of plastic.

    n wut steam said makes no sense, EA DM was another closed system too.

    But Im glad they ruled jail breaking was legal, I feel that you should be able to get apps anywhere without the app store or Androids version of it, whether you pay or not.

    Video game consoles are region restricted n people hack them so they can play import games- or example get additional playback functions- like the wii for DVD. I notice some of the good games dont make it to US shores at all.

    Those who owned Tatsunoko vs Capcom that was the first game after MVC2 to come out in almost a decade- it almost didnt make it to US shores cuz of licensing issues so they scrapped one character from the US version and added a few other characters.
  16. KieranD

    KieranD

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,003 (3.16/day)
    Thanks Received:
    813
    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    An editorial is a subject and an argument, interpretation or criticism of that.

    Lots of times i was confused by the punctuation in the article. A sentence cannot be started with therefore. The word ridiculous shouldn't be on its own one word sentence. Why make the second paragraph a new paragraph?

    "In the interview, Fries asked if these were the best of times, or the worst. For the clearest answer to this question, let's quote from Dudley's blog."

    In the interview Fries asked if these were the best of times or the worst; for the clearest answer to this question let's quote from Dudley's blog.
  17. 3volvedcombat

    3volvedcombat New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,514 (0.80/day)
    Thanks Received:
    261
    Location:
    South California, The desert.
    "......but the customer (gamer) is locked in tight, like a straitjacket. ....."


    This came to mind after reading what Q said,
    Its not necessarily the (gamer) in a straitjacket.

    Its the profile, on which the "gamer" purchased the game. I have multiple Steam Profiles with different game's on them.

    I can completely understand that steam does not allow there digital copy's of games to be tossed around because of steams security and cloud service.

    If Steam did not flex there arms there, you sure as HELL bet that a lot of game's would not be on there cloud, there forced to. There pretty much forced to do that, so they can give the best experience to customers.

    Steam is pretty versatile because you can use the program without Purchasing a single item, get FREE game's, and FREE service to the steam cloud(community). You can also set steam up to Launch and work with non-steam games. That's about as versatile as it get's.


    APPLE, is a different story. iTunes is great, you can import your music, manage your account's, organize ect ect..

    But IN ORDER to use itunes as it is meant to be, you NEED a Ipod/Iphone/Isomething. That's big 100$+ to get into the "apple" garden. Then you can finally have the music you bought on something that's going to use it right. Don't they specially encrypt there music so it only performs reasonably on there expensive product.

    I might not be explaining it right, but Steam is def no where a strait jacket as Itunes(apple) has turned into.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
    qubit says thanks.
  18. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,031 (4.66/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,366
    I do not believe in cloud/streaming games at all. This is starting to sound like computers without harddrives, big issue with cloud is latency between getting ur programs to run especially at peak times of day, so imagine if even the OS was in the cloud, take forever to run n same with opening stuff
  19. 3volvedcombat

    3volvedcombat New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,514 (0.80/day)
    Thanks Received:
    261
    Location:
    South California, The desert.
    There is no latency?

    Why? Because with STEAM you can run in offline, or online regardless,

    When you Install a Steam game from there cloud(install) your done. You do not have to re-connect to the server cloud to start the game....

    It start's like a regular program EXE, you can even put interjection's on the start-up shortcut that appears on your desktop after you install. After that, your game connect's to the same server's (EA Servers, VALVE game servers, Microsoft servers) as if you were to stick your CD in the drive, only way to to play multiplier.


    I do agree with you, on the part if you actually had to be interconnected to a cloud 24/7 to run a game, without data on your machine. Always buggy, and Ping has way to much latency for a smooth service.
  20. eidairaman1

    eidairaman1

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,031 (4.66/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,366
    Computers would be like stupid terminals again if everything was on the cloud
  21. newtekie1

    newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,698 (6.22/day)
    Thanks Received:
    5,860
    I call horseshit on that.

    Vavle is no where near as equally closed as Apple. They aren't selling graphics cards that only work with Steam, they haven't designed Steam so that it only works with certain approved hardware that only they manufacture.

    Oh, and you don't have to purchase things only from the Steam store. You can purchase games from retail stores, and a large portion of the games on Steam can be purchased through other means(retail stores, other download services, etc.). Really the only games that you have to purchase through the Steam store are Valve produced games, and even then you don't even have to purchase them through the Steam store(most are available in retail form)...:wtf:
    Crunching for Team TPU 50 Million points folded for TPU
  22. pantherx12

    pantherx12 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    9,714 (4.79/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,699
    Location:
    ENGLAND-LAND-LAND
    I always thought steam was pretty damn good, you don't even have to buy games from them.

    Technically the only reason you can sell a game second hand is because you own the physical medium the game is on NOT because you own the game.


    The entire first post is based on a logical fallacy and lack of legal knowledge.



    Why was this posted? It's just FUD, I thought their was a rule about FUD.


    Damn TPU, what happen!?


    Please if articles like this are to be posted can they be in their own dedicate section.

    Posting this under news is just, well wrong as it implies it is all fact.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
  23. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    9,821 (4.06/day)
    Thanks Received:
    3,480
    Dude, I'm ok with criticism, even the harsh sort like newtekie's above, but please don't stray into personal attacks, ok? And by that I mean accusing me of posting FUD. It's untrue and quite a nasty accusation, as if I deliberately was up to no good, so please don't accuse me of this again.

    EDIT: All sorted, we're good. No bad intention was meant. :) See later posts.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
    [H]@RD5TUFF says thanks.
  24. [H]@RD5TUFF

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    5,615 (3.28/day)
    Thanks Received:
    1,707
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Agreed it was marked as an editorial, if your looking for news in an editorial the only person to blame is yourself for looking for news in an opinionated editorial.

    Not picking on Qbit, but this was his opinion on what happened, and people have the nards to call it out right lies, sad day indeed. :shadedshu
    qubit says thanks.
  25. NC37

    NC37

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,169 (0.56/day)
    Thanks Received:
    260
    Umm, you don't have to buy games on Steam to be able to use Steam with them. You can add non Steam games.

    Its not right to compare Steam with Apple. Apple exercises complete control over their platform. Valve welcomes business with only a few house rules, which aren't in any way outlandishly strict like Apple. EA couldn't agree to it so they left and look what they made...their own little iTunes store where they exercise heavy control over the content. It is no surprise devs have not been in a hurry to embrace Origin.

    Steam is good for the PC gaming industry, Origin is not. Origin will fail but EA is going to be dumping a lot of money to try and make sure it won't. All because some exec at EA decided they wanted a slice of the Steam pie and figured EA games could stand alone. Which would have worked had they not irrevocably pissed off PC gamers by doing it.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guest)

Share This Page