Ryzen 3000, FCLK Issue

[Voltaj .45 ACP]

for starters: ram controller in amd cpu's in the core but in 3000 series it's in IO not core.FCLK or infinity fabric is the bridge between IO and core.you have to set this settings 1:1 for example if you're set 3600 ram you'll set 1800 FCLK.but it's 1/2?no it's 1:1 because DDR means double data rate and 3600 isn't 3600 it's 1800.

set 3600 ram set 1800 FCLK, set 3733 ram set 1866 FCLK right?no problem.3000 series stable FCLK around 1800's.i can set 1900 FCLK but i have to voltage some weird named setting.if you're give much voltage pcie 4.0 m2's will affect and i have pcie 4.0 m2 so voltage is not an option.

my problem is my new gskill 4400 mhz kit can make 4400 but if i set auto FCLK it will be 1100 mhz.if i set manual 1800 mhz FCLK pc won't open.if you're using 1100 mhz FCLK with 4400 it's like 3600 mhz ram.

where is the problem mb's bios? or mb's ram limitiation(asus strix-e x570 4400 mhz support)? or ryzen 3000 limitation?thanks..

 

[cucker tarlson]

shoot for 3800 and fclk at 1900mhz,that's all you can achieve with 3000 now if you're lucky.Tigthen the timings.

 

[Voltaj .45 ACP]

shoot for 3800 and fclk at 1900mhz,that's all you can achieve with 3000 now if you're lucky.Tigthen the timings.

first of all thank you but i've already tried 3800/1900 cl14 but like i said i have to set 1.1v some weird named settings about Infinity fabric.working fine but lower scores than 3733/1866 cl14.idk this cpu or mb doesn't like anything but 3733/1866.
what difference?4400 cl19 2t, 101 fps average in gta5 2k night and 104 fps 3733 cl14 1t.in 2k ram is not important much.4400 is 1.4v but 3733 is 1.45v and i don't like unnecessary voltage.if i can make IF 1800 with 4400 i'm sure it wil be better than 3733 cl14.

 

[Chomiq]

shoot for 3800 and fclk at 1900mhz,that's all you can achieve with 3000 now if you're lucky.Tigthen the timings.

The odds are that his 3700x won't post on 3800 even with extra loose timings. Not to mention that you're entering the area of diminishing returns, since putting strain on imc will result in worse cpu performance due to thermals.
To OP: drop it to 3600/1800 cl14 with same timings as 3733. You should be able to lower voltage at this point.

 

[cucker tarlson]

The odds are that his 3700x won't post on 3800 even with extra loose timings. Not to mention that you're entering the area of diminishing returns, since putting strain on imc will result in worse cpu performance due to thermals.
To OP: drop it to 3600/1800 cl14 with same timings as 3733. You should be able to lower voltage at this point.

Sorry,I am no expert on ryzen.

 

[Chomiq]

Sorry,I am no expert on ryzen.

No worries, he could probably achieve it on 3800x since they're better binned.

 

[tabascosauz]

Generally, reports confirm that unsynced IF is never really going to be worth it. AMD provides the theoretical ability to hit high 4500+ MT/s records on Ryzen 3000 just like Intel platforms by desyncing IF, but only on Intel platforms will you actually get the performance to back up the raw bandwidth those high freqs achieve. Even at 4400MT/s, you aren't going to recoup your losses in latency. You can have the best Royal kit with tight 4000+ timings, but the moment IF moves to anything but 1:1, you get knocked down like everyone else with instant 75-80ns latency. And Ryzen 3000 already takes a hit in latency over already high Ryzen on account of its design, even at 1:1, so...

Heck, I think general speculation is that you need to go quite a bit higher than 4200-4400MT/s on Ryzen before latency starts coming down again and raw bandwidth can take over, to the point where you theoretically might take the lead over a tight 3733 or 3800 again. Think close to 5000MT/s. And that's difficult territory even on Intel, without spending a lot of time and money in selecting the right kits.

I'm guessing you already have decent B-die, 1.45v isn't an issue, just keep cool air flowing over it for stability under heavy mem load. As for unsyncing IF, some tests run it at 2:1 (ie. 1100 for 4400) but others keep it high at 1800-1900. I don't remember what's at play here, I think buildzoid might have explained optimal unsynced IF freq in a past video. But anyways, a stable and tweaked 3733/14 profile is a good place to be.

For running IF that isn't strictly 1:1 or 2:1, it probably depends on your BIOS being written well enough to support it. Some vendors are notorious for having half-assed BIOSes with redundant, useless or broken settings. If you can get an answer from buildzoid on the existence of a magical unsynced IF for optimal 4400 performance, that would be great, but remember that it's a 3700X and barely a rung above the 3600 in binning; don't be bummed if it can't do 1:1 1900 or whatever it might be.

Leave the extreme OCs to the 3900X and 3950X users; at least they have better binned silicon, slightly lower latency, and double the write bandwidth to push those records.

 

[cucker tarlson]

There's a significant benefit from using dual rank memory,so 4 bdie sticks running 3600 with synced IF will almost certainly outperform single rank with unsynced IF event if you can get 4.5ghz stable

 

[Voltaj .45 ACP]

Sorry,I am no expert on ryzen.

no worries i don't speak english very well but here we are.pc enthusiasts has no boundaries.

@tabascosauz

man you're killing me.you're saying something straight but i can't understand.you're saying take this bag and go to school but Turkish is reverse and all i hear "go to school and hey you forget the bag." hehe kidding i understand.this kit is not for 3700x it's for 4000 series because i hope there is no IO FCLK bs in 4000 series.

@Chomiq

if mb supports 4400 then i demand from asus 4400 so i don't use 3600 my old adata kit was 3600 but this kit more quality? or binned you said because adata can make 4200 cl16 with 1.5v but never done 4400mhz.

 

[Chomiq]

The odds are that your 3700x won't be able to run with 1900 FCKL. That's what I mean by binning. Some people can't even pull off 1900 on a 3950x.

Just because your memory is on QVL it doesn't mean that it will run on every setting. It's up to you to troubleshoot.

 

[Zach_01]

Watch this for starters

 

[sneekypeet]

Let me cover some glaring holes in this thread.

5000MHz memory exists... https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK16GX4M2Z5000C18
Said memory will not hit the rated speeds with a higher binned CPU like the 3900X and 3950X, it requires a chip with a single chiplet like the 3600X.

Second, most of the issues with people not hitting 1800 IF is their issue, not that of the CPU.

IF at half the memory speed certainly puts a latency hit in AIDA64, but that does not mean that performance suffers due to that reason alone. I have tested many kits faster than 3600MHz and they do show performance gains over those where the IF was half that of the RAM. Lowest latency in AIDA does not mean the best performance across all testing, but it may in one or two benches.

I do agree that there is a point of diminishing returns,but I am also a huge proponent of users trying things out rather than reading all of the guides as gospel.

In my testing, on my 3900X, I topped out the IMC at near 4300MHz with 1800IF. I am not super shocked at the OPs issues, and would suggest tinkering and testing to see if, say, 4000MHz 1800IF with lower timings is a good place to start.

 

[Zach_01]

for starters: ram controller in amd cpu's in the core but in 3000 series it's in IO not core.FCLK or infinity fabric is the bridge between IO and core.you have to set this settings 1:1 for example if you're set 3600 ram you'll set 1800 FCLK.but it's 1/2?no it's 1:1 because DDR means double data rate and 3600 isn't 3600 it's 1800.

set 3600 ram set 1800 FCLK, set 3733 ram set 1866 FCLK right?no problem.3000 series stable FCLK around 1800's.i can set 1900 FCLK but i have to voltage some weird named setting.if you're give much voltage pcie 4.0 m2's will affect and i have pcie 4.0 m2 so voltage is not an option.

my problem is my new gskill 4400 mhz kit can make 4400 but if i set auto FCLK it will be 1100 mhz.if i set manual 1800 mhz FCLK pc won't open.if you're using 1100 mhz FCLK with 4400 it's like 3600 mhz ram.

where is the problem mb's bios? or mb's ram limitiation(asus strix-e x570 4400 mhz support)? or ryzen 3000 limitation?thanks..

Watch this for starters

Running MEMCLK and UCLK in a-sync mode works only in very few cases. You will have to find it yourself if there is any benefit.
Specifically Threadripper only will real benefit from it and with high speed memory (like 4400).
AM4 CPUs best kept in 3733~3800 for sync MEMCLK:UCLK:FCLK.
High bandwidth will not benefit much general performance as 3000series have large cache. From the other hand low latency will, and that is achieved better with sync mode.

Look closely the numbers...

 

[sneekypeet]

AM4 CPUs best kept in 3733~3800 for sync MEMCLK:UCLK:FCLK.

Yet in your second video, and I only watched for a few minutes, he immediately claims that 3200MHz with tight timings and 1800 FLCK gave the best performance in his chart. Just sayin

 

[cucker tarlson]

Yet in your second video, and I only watched for a few minutes, he immediately claims that 3200MHz with tight timings and 1800 FLCK gave the best performance in his chart. Just sayin

Can you set 1800 IF for 3200 ram ?

 

[sneekypeet]

Can you set 1800 IF for 3200 ram ?

Second link above, dude got right into saying low timing 3200 RAM and IF1800 worked best. I run 1800IF with almost anything I test.

IF can be set independently from RAM in any situation.

 

[Voltaj .45 ACP]

let me show some pictures for what my problem

4400 cl19 and 1800 fclk on bios but...

3733 cl14 and 1866 fclk is no problem

and 3800 cl14 and 1900 fclk on bios

 

[sneekypeet]

let me show some pictures for what my problem

4400 cl19 and 1800 fclk on bios but...

View attachment 145485

3733 cl14 and 1866 fclk is no problem

View attachment 145486

and 3800 cl14 and 1900 fclk on bios

View attachment 145487

Do these images also represent what the BIOS shows is going on when you set these versions of ways of running that kit? Just trying to rule out a software misread.

 

[Drone69]

When memory speed is over 3733Mhz the ratio isn`t 1:1 any more.

 

[Voltaj .45 ACP]

Do these images also represent what the BIOS shows is going on when you set these versions of ways of running that kit? Just trying to rule out a software misread.

 

[sneekypeet]

Looking back at screenshots, mine seems to be doing the same. IF stays where I set it, but once I break 3600MHz my NB drops like yours is showing.

 

[Drone69]

Both the CPU-Z images are showing the right thing. the 1st one is 1:1 because the memory is running at 3733Mhz. The second image the ratio 0.5:1 because the memory is running faster than 3733Mhz. It`s how it`s supposed to work.

this link has more deatails

https://premiumbuilds.com/ram/best-ram-for-ryzen-3000/

 

[sneekypeet]

It`s how it`s supposed to work.

Performance did not seem affected by its change, at least not by any drastic measures, so I never looked into it further.

 

[Zach_01]

Second link above, dude got right into saying low timing 3200 RAM and IF1800 worked best. I run 1800IF with almost anything I test.

IF can be set independently from RAM in any situation.

Yet in your second video, and I only watched for a few minutes, he immediately claims that 3200MHz with tight timings and 1800 FLCK gave the best performance in his chart. Just sayin

You should see all 4 videos, the whole thing of each and then understand what is the memory subsystem nature of Ryzen 3000. By watching a glimpse of 1 video, and listen only a few words of it, and draw conlusions or anything else is not the optimal way. There is a specific reason I posted those videos. If you dont want to listen to them as info, its ok by me.

When memory speed is over 3733Mhz the ratio isn`t 1:1 any more.

False...
The 1:1 ratio is kept up to 3800MT/s DRAM and 1900MHz UCLK:FCLK

 

[sneekypeet]

You should see all 4 videos, the whole thing of each and then understand what is the memory subsystem nature of Ryzen 3000. By watching a glimpse of 1 video, and listen only a few words of it, and draw conlusions or anything else is not the optimal way. There is a specific reason I posted those videos. If you dont want to listen to them as info, its ok by me.

Did not have well over an hour to look, but on first glance, this information has only to do with AIDA64 correct? Bandwidth and latency?