I hope the new PS5 cooler still works well... awaiting more testing

[Space Lynx]

LOL Free Market? Try and get your mitts on a PS5 in the real world. You could pay scalpers $$$$ for a 'new' PS5.

ye. I meant it sarcastically. but also the offer is on the table Sony. just let me know when my plane ticket and pick axe arrive, I will single handedly stop this shortage, with the Dwarves of the Second Age!!! We will sing and we will mine! Copper PS5 will be ours!

Title updated per OP's request.

Thank you!!!

Everything You Need To Know About The Rumored PS5 Pro

A faster, redesigned PlayStation 5 could hit shelves sooner than anyone predicted.

www.forbes.com

I still don't understand what the future 6nm PS5 has to do with the heatsink change though we are discussing here? The 6nm is not here yet.

 

[Chomiq]

Quick, everyone jump the 6nm train so you'll avoid 7nm node being overbooked by everyone!

 

[Valantar]

Guess its time for everyone in this thread to eat crow, looks like the giant heatsink in the V1 was overkill and actually restricting airflow.

If accurate (it's not like they detail their test methodology or thermocouple placements) that is pretty impressive. Still need to know where they measured those temperatures though. Though it's mainly an indictment of the original heatsink rather than praise for the new one - if the improvements come from the new design no longer being massively restrictive, that's more fixing a major flaw than improving the console. Still, that also makes many of us rather naive in arguing from the assumption of an already good heatsink (and thus discussing the possibility of this being better/worse than a competently made baseline), rather than arguing from "the stock heatsink is crap, (how) does this improve things?" It is after all much, much harder to go from "good" to "better" than "bad" to "good" in heatsink design.

Edit: oh, I see in the video description that what they mean by "memory" is the SSD - and the NAND, not the controller. Tbh, who cares? That's a pretty stupid measurement to make IMO. RAM temperatures would have been far more interesting.

Call me when Steve from GamersNexus use his advanced equipment to test the VRM's in the new one. Steve tested 95 Celsius on the VRM's on first PS5 review he did, and he had way more advanced equipment than this guy... so I mean... I am taking that 44 celsius VRM temp here with a grain of salt... I trust Steve from GamersNexus way more...

Aris is the same person who does TPU's PSU reviews, so I would say he's pretty trustworthy. That being said, the massive differences in VRM and VRAM temperatures between his numbers and GN's numbers makes me wary - there's no way they are measuring the same thing. GN did explicitly seek out parts they thought looked poorly cooled, which Aris might not have.

(edit: see above regarding "memory" temperatures)

I have used all my magic and will hopefully soon own a new PS5. However, for the 'time poor' souls on TPU who didn't click the link in my above post, I will manage up to provide this quote:

What relevance does that have to this? That post is discussing a future "PS5 Pro", not this minor refresh. There is zero indication of this refresh having a new APU.

LOL Free Market? Try and get your mitts on a PS5 in the real world. You could pay scalpers $$$$ for a 'new' PS5.

That is exactly how "free" (as in unregulated) markets tend to work. Those with resources are free to screw over those lacking them.

 

[FireFox]

who da hell is regularly playing on consoles 10-20 or so years old... that that would be a issue.. are you playing on the ps2 right now?

I still play on my Super Nintendo, PS1/PS2, nothing wrong with that

 

[TheLostSwede]

If accurate (it's not like they detail their test methodology or thermocouple placements) that is pretty impressive. Still need to know where they measured those temperatures though. Though it's mainly an indictment of the original heatsink rather than praise for the new one - if the improvements come from the new design no longer being massively restrictive, that's more fixing a major flaw than improving the console. Still, that also makes many of us rather naive in arguing from the assumption of an already good heatsink (and thus discussing the possibility of this being better/worse than a competently made baseline), rather than arguing from "the stock heatsink is crap, (how) does this improve things?" It is after all much, much harder to go from "good" to "better" than "bad" to "good" in heatsink design.

Edit: oh, I see in the video description that what they mean by "memory" is the SSD - and the NAND, not the controller. Tbh, who cares? That's a pretty stupid measurement to make IMO. RAM temperatures would have been far more interesting.

Aris is the same person who does TPU's PSU reviews, so I would say he's pretty trustworthy. That being said, the massive differences in VRM and VRAM temperatures between his numbers and GN's numbers makes me wary - there's no way they are measuring the same thing. GN did explicitly seek out parts they thought looked poorly cooled, which Aris might not have.

(edit: see above regarding "memory" temperatures)

What relevance does that have to this? That post is discussing a future "PS5 Pro", not this minor refresh. There is zero indication of this refresh having a new APU.

That is exactly how "free" (as in unregulated) markets tend to work. Those with resources are free to screw over those lacking them.

All details can be found here

Sony Playstation 5 - Why the new PS5 is even better than the old one and a superficial view is dangerous | Important Update | igor´sLAB

Disclaimer: The following article is machine translated from the original German, and has not been edited or checked for errors. Thank you for understanding!

www.igorslab.de

It's a bit hard to test the memory temperature with the EMI shield in place.

 

[Tardian]

If accurate (it's not like they detail their test methodology or thermocouple placements) that is pretty impressive. Still need to know where they measured those temperatures though. Though it's mainly an indictment of the original heatsink rather than praise for the new one - if the improvements come from the new design no longer being massively restrictive, that's more fixing a major flaw than improving the console. Still, that also makes many of us rather naive in arguing from the assumption of an already good heatsink (and thus discussing the possibility of this being better/worse than a competently made baseline), rather than arguing from "the stock heatsink is crap, (how) does this improve things?" It is after all much, much harder to go from "good" to "better" than "bad" to "good" in heatsink design.

Edit: oh, I see in the video description that what they mean by "memory" is the SSD - and the NAND, not the controller. Tbh, who cares? That's a pretty stupid measurement to make IMO. RAM temperatures would have been far more interesting.

Aris is the same person who does TPU's PSU reviews, so I would say he's pretty trustworthy. That being said, the massive differences in VRM and VRAM temperatures between his numbers and GN's numbers makes me wary - there's no way they are measuring the same thing. GN did explicitly seek out parts they thought looked poorly cooled, which Aris might not have.

(edit: see above regarding "memory" temperatures)

What relevance does that have to this? That post is discussing a future "PS5 Pro", not this minor refresh. There is zero indication of this refresh having a new APU.

That is exactly how "free" (as in unregulated) markets tend to work. Those with resources are free to screw over those lacking them.

Unicorn = PS5 both to mere mortals are never/rarely seen in real life. I had to pull some real strings today to get my hands on one.

Free market for PS5? Scalpers and Big Business account for what % of the total.

Regarding the test: exhaust gas temperature is fairly reliable.

Measured temperatures in comparison​

First, let’s look at the temperature evolution as warming continues. We can already see here that the supposedly bad cooler keeps the processor over 10 degrees cooler! This is almost a small galaxy and the 27.6 percentage points almost have the character of a small sensation. The NAND memory (partially labeled as Memory in the charts) does suffer a bit and gets over 7 degrees warmer on the new PS5, but still remains in the perfectly safe range. The voltage converters of the new PS5 are not even 1.5 degrees warmer, only at the air outlet it is about 2.4 degrees more.
Let’s compare the final temperatures after heating again as a clearer bar graph. Of course, the assessments just made apply here as well. So, the new cooling solution can be said to perform better, not worse, and it was this very fact that prompted Aris’ video and today’s article. You can really only judge a product if you have actually tested it, everything else is superfluous and wrong.
Fan load and operating noise
One can only attest one thing to the fan operation: absolute equality! The assumption that the smaller cooler would need more revs to keep up has once again been very impressively disproved with this measurement. It also underlines that the new cooler works partially even better than the cooler of the old PS5 under the same conditions. You can only congratulate the engineers at Sony.

Thank you TheLostSwede. The premise for the article is now in ruins.

 

[Valantar]

Free market for PS5? Scalpers and Big Business account for what % of the total.

Hm? Either you didn't read what I wrote, or you didn't understand it at all.

All details can be found here

Sony Playstation 5 - Why the new PS5 is even better than the old one and a superficial view is dangerous | Important Update | igor´sLAB

Disclaimer: The following article is machine translated from the original German, and has not been edited or checked for errors. Thank you for understanding!

www.igorslab.de

It's a bit hard to test the memory temperature with the EMI shield in place.

Thanks for the link! Definitely a lot of useful detail there.

I have to question the reasoning when they say

if you miss the RAM in the listing, I can reassure you. Clamping probes between the memory module and the thermal pads below the heatsink is a bad idea, because the cooling works a degree worse. We have tested this and found it to be questionable because it is too inaccurate. The values would be significantly higher than in real operation.

That is superficially reasonable, but why not then measure RAM temperatures in the same way as the others - on the other side of the RF shield? If that's somehow good enough for SoC core temperatures (which IMO it isn't, though I guess for the sake of a like-for-like comparison it's likely sufficiently reliable), it should definitely be for the RAM, no? At least that's located on the same side of the PCB as the sensors, unlike the SoC.

I overall completely agree that trying to insert a thermocouple between a heat source and heatsink is a bad idea, but IMO they could have found better placements for the sensors here. Why not on the cold plate, next to the heatpipes or heatsink? Stick some blue-tack or similar putty over it and you won't get notable interference from airflow, and you'll have a direct thermal pathway to the core, unlike measuring from the RF shield on the opposite side of the PCB. And I still don't get why SSD temperatures are interesting at all. Unless they're running a game with tons of asset streaming or crazy long load times, the SSD is likely to be idle 99% of the time while playing.

I don't doubt their findings, but that methodology still seems pretty flawed.

 

[Tardian]

Hm? Either you didn't read what I wrote, or you didn't understand it at all.

Thanks for the link! Definitely a lot of useful detail there.

I have to question the reasoning when they say

That is superficially reasonable, but why not then measure RAM temperatures in the same way as the others - on the other side of the RF shield? If that's somehow good enough for SoC core temperatures (which IMO it isn't, though I guess for the sake of a like-for-like comparison it's likely sufficiently reliable), it should definitely be for the RAM, no? At least that's located on the same side of the PCB as the sensors, unlike the SoC.

I overall completely agree that trying to insert a thermocouple between a heat source and heatsink is a bad idea, but IMO they could have found better placements for the sensors here. Why not on the cold plate, next to the heatpipes or heatsink? Stick some blue-tack or similar putty over it and you won't get notable interference from airflow, and you'll have a direct thermal pathway to the core, unlike measuring from the RF shield on the opposite side of the PCB. And I still don't get why SSD temperatures are interesting at all. Unless they're running a game with tons of asset streaming or crazy long load times, the SSD is likely to be idle 99% of the time while playing.

I don't doubt their findings, but that methodology still seems pretty flawed.

What part of the infrared first portion didn't you understand? This looks like: Ooops we made a mistake ... smoke and mirrors ... classic misdirection. I vote the whole article gets deleted.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Hm? Either you didn't read what I wrote, or you didn't understand it at all.

Thanks for the link! Definitely a lot of useful detail there.

I have to question the reasoning when they say

That is superficially reasonable, but why not then measure RAM temperatures in the same way as the others - on the other side of the RF shield? If that's somehow good enough for SoC core temperatures (which IMO it isn't, though I guess for the sake of a like-for-like comparison it's likely sufficiently reliable), it should definitely be for the RAM, no? At least that's located on the same side of the PCB as the sensors, unlike the SoC.

I overall completely agree that trying to insert a thermocouple between a heat source and heatsink is a bad idea, but IMO they could have found better placements for the sensors here. Why not on the cold plate, next to the heatpipes or heatsink? Stick some blue-tack or similar putty over it and you won't get notable interference from airflow, and you'll have a direct thermal pathway to the core, unlike measuring from the RF shield on the opposite side of the PCB. And I still don't get why SSD temperatures are interesting at all. Unless they're running a game with tons of asset streaming or crazy long load times, the SSD is likely to be idle 99% of the time while playing.

I don't doubt their findings, but that methodology still seems pretty flawed.

I guess the reason the SSD temperature is interesting is because Sony did their own controller for it. It's really the only thing I can think of.

 

[Valantar]

I guess the reason the SSD temperature is interesting is because Sony did their own controller for it. It's really the only thing I can think of.

Yeah, that's likely. Still pretty odd though, especially given that according to both Aris' video and the article they're measuring the NAND and not the controller.

What part of the infrared first portion didn't you understand? This looks like: Ooops we made a mistake ... smoke and mirrors ... classic misdirection. I vote the whole article gets deleted.

What article? The Igor's lab one? Why? Also, what are you talking about overall? I was responding to your response to my "free" market comment, yet you're addressing me about ... infrared measurements? How is that relevant to what I said to you? To reiterate: I responded to your "LOL free market?" comment saying that this is exactly how "free" (as in unregulated) markets work, by allowing anyone with resources to exploit anyone and anything. That's what happens in unregulated markets. Always. So, what we are seeing now is the predictable and entirely normal consequence of the "free" market that conservatives and neoliberals (not that the two aren't the same most places today) love: exploitation by the rich/able for their own gain, with zero consequences.

 

[Tardian]

Yeah, that's likely. Still pretty odd though, especially given that according to both Aris' video and the article they're measuring the NAND and not the controller.


What article? The Igor's lab one? Why? Also, what are you talking about overall? I was responding to your response to my "free" market comment, yet you're addressing me about ... infrared measurements? How is that relevant to what I said to you? To reiterate: I responded to your "LOL free market?" comment saying that this is exactly how "free" (as in unregulated) markets work, by allowing anyone with resources to exploit anyone and anything. That's what happens in unregulated markets. Always. So, what we are seeing now is the predictable and entirely normal consequence of the "free" market that conservatives and neoliberals (not that the two aren't the same most places today) love: exploitation by the rich/able for their own gain, with zero consequences.

WoW your grasp of economics is soooo humbling!

 

[Valantar]

WoW your grasp of economics is soooo humbling!

... It was a semi-snarky comment to your "LOL free markets" post. As simple as that. I'm not claiming to know much about economics at all. That unregulated markets tend towards exploitation, oligarchy and monopoly is hardly a new idea. But it is often prudent to repeat when someone seems to conflate "free markets" with "fair/open markets", as you did in that post. Take that as you will.

I still have no idea what you mean about deleting some article though.

 

[Space Lynx]

All details can be found here

Sony Playstation 5 - Why the new PS5 is even better than the old one and a superficial view is dangerous | Important Update | igor´sLAB

Disclaimer: The following article is machine translated from the original German, and has not been edited or checked for errors. Thank you for understanding!

www.igorslab.de

It's a bit hard to test the memory temperature with the EMI shield in place.

It doesn't explain how GamersNexus got 90+ celsius on the VRM's in the original PS5 and this guy only had 44 Celsius... I am not saying this guy is wrong exactly, but the discrepancy is to much to be believed imo... still waiting for Steve from GamersNexus.

 

[TheLostSwede]

It doesn't explain how GamersNexus got 90+ celsius on the VRM's in the original PS5 and this guy only had 44 Celsius... I am not saying this guy is wrong exactly, but the discrepancy is to much to be believed imo... still waiting for Steve from GamersNexus.

Tech Jesus is overrated imho.
As for results, it all comes down to how you test and where you place the thermal probes in this instance.

 

[mtcn77]

It doesn't explain how GamersNexus got 90+ celsius on the VRM's in the original PS5 and this guy only had 44 Celsius... I am not saying this guy is wrong exactly, but the discrepancy is to much to be believed imo... still waiting for Steve from GamersNexus.

Steve is shit. He will talk ad infinitum about his favourite brand and 'not' report on frametime spikes when he does not want to lose credit of his master.
Anyway, 3d design has improved fan kinetics a great deal, nowadays they can separate wake floe from head flow and only focus on impeller designs that generate good laminar flow. In a couple of years we will have fans as quiet as backward curved impellers with the pressure of forward and air volume of axial fans.

 

[IceShroom]

I am taking that 44 celsius VRM temp here with a grain of salt... I trust Steve from GamersNexus way more...

Looks like it is delta temperature. Add your ambient temperature and you will get your standard temperature.

 

[Valantar]

Steve is shit. He will talk ad infinitum about his favourite brand and 'not' report on frametime spikes when he does not want to lose credit of his master.

Got anything to back that up? Also, his "master"? Is there any semi-prominent hardware reviewer less afraid to explicitly call out bad actors when they see them than GN?

 

[Tardian]

... It was a semi-snarky comment to your "LOL free markets" post. As simple as that. I'm not claiming to know much about economics at all. That unregulated markets tend towards exploitation, oligarchy and monopoly is hardly a new idea. But it is often prudent to repeat when someone seems to conflate "free markets" with "fair/open markets", as you did in that post. Take that as you will.

I still have no idea what you mean about deleting some article though.

Defamation is a statement that injures a third party's reputation.

I think that this thread formerly entitled: "Sony and Playstation 5 have just lost all my respect and desire to want one. Terrible move Sony..." should be deleted.
As I stated above "The premise for the article is now in ruins."

Defamation is the publication of material that could lead an ordinary, reasonable person to think less of you.
Defamatory matter can be published by any means of communication – spoken or written words, signs, social media posts, pictures or gestures. Defamation can take place anywhere.
Publication is the communication of the defamatory material to any other person, excluding the person whom it is alleged has been defamed. This may be private conversations, letters, radio, television, newspapers and anything online. This includes Facebook comments, article comments, Twitter and email.

Defamation Law | What is Defamation? | Hall Payne Lawyers

If defamed, or accused of defamation, a highly experienced lawyer is required; someone with a highly successful case history. Freecall: 1800 659 114

www.hallpayne.com.au

Now the TPU legal team needs to consider:

Defences
Even if a statement is defamatory, there are circumstances in which such statements are permissible in law.
Proving adverse public character statements to be true is often the best defense against a prosecution for libel or defamation. Statements of opinion that cannot be proven true or false will likely need to apply some other kind of defense.
Another important aspect of defamation is the difference between fact and opinion. Statements made as "facts" are frequently actionable defamation. Statements of opinion or pure opinion are not actionable. Some jurisdictions decline to recognize any legal distinction between fact and opinion. To win damages in a libel case, the plaintiff must first show that the statements were "statements of fact or mixed statements of opinion and fact" and second that these statements were false. Conversely, a typical defense to defamation is that the statements are opinion, relying on opinion privilege. One of the major tests to distinguish whether a statement is fact or opinion is whether the statement can be proved true or false in a court of law. If the statement can be proved true or false, then, on that basis, the case will be heard by a jury to determine whether it is true or false. If the statement cannot be proved true or false, the court may dismiss the libel case without it ever going to a jury to find facts in the case.

Defamation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Free speech and protection of the press are not unfettered. Was the factual basis of the original article sufficiently grounded in truth? I am trying to encourage TPU to protect itself.

Do you want the Gaming/Console market to be regulated? I think most would regard the rights of consumers as more important than those of criminal gangs?

 

[Vayra86]

I never owned PS3 and PS4 as I mentioned in previous posts.

PS1 and PS2 were just fine to me.

Agreed. They had much more reliable performance.

 

[Tardian]

Agreed. They had much more reliable performance.

I found the three PS3 consoles we have owned to be exceptionally reliable. They also worked well as blu-ray players in the early days. PS4 minus the UHD blu-ray player was a mistake. PS5 rectifies this error.

 

[Space Lynx]

Agreed. They had much more reliable performance.

yep those were the good days, no patches, no internet, just enjoying life. those were days boys those were the days.

 

[mtcn77]

Is there any semi-prominent hardware reviewer less afraid to explicitly call out bad actors when they see them than GN?

I have just one comment with your stupid remark: if you are going to take sides, don't try to be the judge.

Got anything to back that up? Also, his "master"?

Of course, I have something to back that up. Go to his gpuboost reviews and how he omits those "huge" spikes being verbally mentioned in the article.
He is no better at shilling than you are.

The clock-rate remains mostly stable throughout the majority of the test, but is not a perfectly flat line – that's the ideal output.

PS: if you are looking for journalism, you might want to stick around myself as I, too, was a journalist until someone didn't want to upset relations to announce the stock crash of 2018 two years prior...

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

I just googled it, it is only 1 year... that is a little... disconcerting...

wow really?
1 year is an aweful warranty

 

[Space Lynx]

wow really?
1 year is an aweful warranty

yep. not sure wth Sony is thinking honestly, they should be more proud of their flagship product than that. if I buy a PS5 it will be with the extra 4 year warranty for an extra 70 bucks through Allstate or w.e the company is called now during checkout. small price to pay for peace of mind.

 

[MentalAcetylide]

True!

Copper is way expensive ATM.

Yeah, really. I've heard of houses that were advertised for sale in the paper having all of their copper piping ripped out and carted off by thieves with the water left running all over the place inside. They even sometimes steal it from construction sites if its left there accessible at the work site unguarded.