I dont understand the phone OS world.....

[ZoneDymo]

So here is something that is often done away with "its not possible, it cant be done" but I dont get it...

Lets take Microsoft OS, Windows, I can install Windows 10 on ANCIENT hardware, like a Core 2 Duo or even a Pentium 4, this is perfectly normal that you can do that.
I can also install Linux Unbuntu and IOS (virtual perhaps but still).

So what is up with phones and Android OS?
Why are all phones only supported for X amount of years, why are phone makers even involved? why can I just download a copy of the latest version of Android and install that on my phone?
Why are there no alternatives yet, like I know there is something like Linux on phones (heck Android is Linux derived) but its all apperenly a bit janky and out of date.

And I just dont understand why, phones are bascially small computers, heck MS now has "windows on arm" sooo can I just install windows 11 on any device that has arm based hardware?
Can I override a tablet with Android and install windows 11 on it if I wanted to?

and if not...why not? why is that world so dang different from the OS world we have known for 2 decades.

 

[Vayra86]

So here is something that is often done away with "its not possible, it cant be done" but I dont get it...

Lets take Microsoft OS, Windows, I can install Windows 10 on ANCIENT hardware, like a Core 2 Duo or even a Pentium 4, this is perfectly normal that you can do that.
I can also intall Linux Unbuntu and IOS (virtual perhaps but still).

So what is up with phones and Android OS?
Why are all phones only supported for X amount of years, why are phone makers even involved? why can I just download a copy of the latest version of Android and install that on my phone?
Why are there no alternatives yet, like I know there is something like Linux on phones (heck Android is Linux derived) but its all apperenly a bit janky and out of date.

And I just dont understand why, phones are bascially small computers, heck MS now has "windows on arm" sooo can I just install windows 11 on any device that has arm based hardware?
Can I override a tablet with Android and install windows 11 on it if I wanted to?

and if now...why not? why is that world so dang different from the OS world we have known for 2 decades.

Simple answer.

Greed & profit

This is the same answer for every other question in the world of business. The overwhelming majority of products is completely unnecessary and the distinction between them similarly, artificial. It all exists so thousands of different companies can go about selling the same, but different, thing.

This is also why we have twenty eight different cans of beans, containing the same beans. The wonders of the free market, that we are convinced is always naturally aimed at doing things as cost effectively as possible. I guess that's true... depending on how far you've zoomed out on the economy of it... and if we ignore the immense waste involved.

So its possible. But it won't be done, because there's no profit model behind it. Its much better for Microsoft and all Android phone makers to be selling their own OS for their own slice of their markets.

 

[Hyderz]

its not that it cant just simply the phone is suppose to be a communication device, its not ideal for a full on work device..
you could indeed install but there will be limitations ...
microsoft tried it and it wasnt successful,

 

[mb194dc]

What is up? You need to root your phone, then you can install a custom OS rom on it. Phones being supported for X numbers of years is just a scam to sell more phones. There's been little innovation for 5 years at least.... A top phone from 2020 will do 99.5% of what a new phone can. In fact just the stock android from 2 years ago is not a security problem, just use an updated browser and don't visit the dark side of the internet on it...

Just search around the internet and you can find out how.

 

[_roman_]

I have to put on soon a custom rom on my samsung a52s 5g
The device should be less than 36 months old. i bought it with 30 months amazon warranty

now samsung has 5 or 6 years warranty support. i paid more for a qualcom processor which most often gets a custom rom option. still it annoys me that samsung barley provided every month an update

my other new samsung tablet only gets every few months an update. it seems samsung does not really provide update in general in a timely fashion.

samsung does not really provide any specs. an embedded sytem is much different. e.g. how the partitions are mounted and such. building a kernel is not that difficult. the issue is to get the full source for the current samsung os i have as of now installed. config files, build guides, source code files. everything = 100%

i do not want to see january security patches at the end of april on my samsung smartphone a52s 5g

 

[Ruru]

I don't know that much about phones, but I guess that planned obsolescence is one thing. Why support older good phones forever when you can make people buy new ones?

 

[_roman_]

What is up? You need to root your phone, then you can install a custom OS rom on it.

i think only certain smartphones with qualcom processors work like that. and not every brand.

you do not need root. you need a custom bootloader and software to move the files to the partitions. than you need a working custom rom. which is different for every tablet and smartphone.
root is an extra feature - which is not needed for a custom rom. reference nexus 4, android one xiaomi mi-a2, samsung sm-t580 tablet

i had before a android one - xiaomi mi a2. sadly google stopped that project. before a google nexus 4

 

[Athlonite]

now samsung has 5 or 6 years warranty support. i paid more for a qualcom processor which most often gets a custom rom option. still it annoys me that samsung barley provided every month an update

my other new samsung tablet only gets every few months an update. it seems samsung does not really provide update in general in a timely fashion.

samsung does not really provide any specs. an embedded sytem is much different. e.g. how the partitions are mounted and such. building a kernel is not that difficult. the issue is to get the full source for the current samsung os i have as of now installed. config files, build guides, source code files. everything = 100%

i do not want to see january security patches at the end of april on my samsung smartphone a52s 5g
You can mostly blame your telco for that as they seem to think that a new update may not play well on their systems so require it being tested before gen pop delivery for install

Also I think you're trying to equate 5 years of updates to 5 years of warranty those are two different things. You'll find the warranty for your phone is probably only 1~2 years depending on where you live in the world whereas the updates you'll receive for the OS and or Security will be for 5 years

and if you think a custom ROM will keep you better updated than Samsung is then think again most custom roms a further out of date than the manufacturer

 

[mb194dc]

i think only certain smartphones with qualcom processors work like that. and not every brand.

you do not need root. you need a custom bootloader and software to move the files to the partitions. than you need a working custom rom. which is different for every tablet and smartphone.
root is an extra feature - which is not needed for a custom rom. reference nexus 4, android one xiaomi mi-a2, samsung sm-t580 tablet

i had before a android one - xiaomi mi a2. sadly google stopped that project. before a google nexus 4

True, but you can easily just Google which phones will work with custom roms and which can't before you buy one. In any case, modern versions of Android are very secure and providing you stay on reputable parts of the internet and aren't a person who is likely to be targeted by a nation state level hacker, then you've nothing to worry about anyway.

 

[Shihab]

Personal computers, as a platform, are designed with the basic assumption of interoperability. It didn't start as such, but eventually we got to the point where you can expect any hardware to be *ATX, ACPI compliant, to use a standard form of connection (SATA, PCIe, etc), and more importantly: development of operating systems standardise driver development; WDM et al -for example- make drivers (somewhat) OS version independent. Linux is trickier, I think. But the fact that they prefer drivers to be included with the kernel not distributed individually (guess why everyone hates Nvidia?) alleviates the issue somewhat. Not to mention that many hardware can be run with "generic" drivers (USB HID, what Microsoft offers by default with Windows, etc), and you have the ton of work reverse engineering and FOSS alternatives for closed source ones.

Now with Androids (and iOS too, but it's less perceivable because Apple makes nearly everything on it and their software support is relatively generous), it's a different story. Want to compile the latest release on a 7 y.o. device? Tough! Quallcomm does not provide the drivers for its various SoC components anymore, or the camera doesn't, or x doesn't, or y doesn't. Sure, one can pay them to do so (and to compile, test and maintain the OS for a specific model), but who would? The Phones' OEMs? No incentive, and not just because it's more profitable for them, it's also because there is absolutely no demand for this (other than a handful of activists and people who can see the economic/climatologic/societal shitstorm were heading into).

To be honest, notebook PCs would have ended the same way if they didn't start (and still are largely made) as IBM-compatible desktop PCs with batteries attached. See e.g. those Android tablets masquerading as notebooks.

 

[Easy Rhino]

So here is something that is often done away with "its not possible, it cant be done" but I dont get it...

It can be done. I don't know who told you it cannot. It just takes developers some time to code up software to make it happen. The issue is called profit. You cannot make a phone and expect to make any money if you are to support it for 7+ years. Especially if you churn out a phone every year. That means you have 7 years of legacy code for developers to keep updating and 6 other newer phones to also keep updating while also having a team of developers working on the next 3 phones. Also, everyone engineer understands that hardware fails. Even if it is planned obsolescence, all hardware will eventually fail due to heat. So it isn't that it is impossible to run old phones, it is simply that it isn't practical for a profitable company to support them.

 

[_roman_]

Also I think you're trying to equate 5 years of updates to 5 years of warranty those are two different things. You'll find the warranty for your phone is probably only 1~2 years depending on where you live in the world whereas the updates you'll receive for the OS and or Security will be for 5 years

As expected 3 year old device
30 months warranty amazon.de the smartphone

It is self bought device - no carrier locked and no carrier involved

the tablet is from amazon.es - spain

it is self bought device - international region version

i do not want to make a phone screenshot for proof for security updates from january. you can find it anyway when you google for that.

modern versions of Android are very secure

just do not make such claims

especially with people who read that and than do their bank software on their phones

and if you think a custom ROM will keep you better updated than Samsung is then think again most custom roms a further out of date than the manufacturer

to make it clear.

that phone officially gets one update every 3 months officially. and that as far as i have understood ends around september 2025.

I am forced to put on a custom rom basically. you may look up google first for that phone modell before we keep on discussing the same. A screenshot is prvoided from amazon.de for the point of purchase and whihc product and 30 months warranty

--

My viewpoint is the device is not even 3 years old and newer samsung devices get now 5 or 6 years of software updates. I think the topic was around operating system software and security updates in my point of view.

i do know the difference between the european 2 years warranty and the amazon.de exclusive offer of 30 months warranty.

Quallcomm does not provide the drivers for its various SoC components anymore, or the camera doesn't, or x doesn't, or y doesn't. Sure, one can pay them to do so (and to compile, test and maintain the OS for a specific model), but who would? The Phones' OEMs?

I started to look into the custom rom area for my smartphone.

A comment noted issues with the camera. previous two samsung tablets had other issues with the display and such. I would blame all manufacturers who provide parts for android smartphone / tablets / ... for their lack of providing documentations and config files and source code

-- edit #13 below me

i think when i put on a custom rom: no more mac donalds voucher for me as the apk refuses to work on custom roms

 

[Kwadratowicz]

I've got Oneplus7, it is still great phone, and after changing battery (myself) and adding lineage os with android 15 it is still great phone, and will be for as long as lineage os will be updated for it
The same goes for my tablet, samsung galaxy tab s5e it has lineage os with android 15 on it .
But stupid banking apps and apps for buying from internet thinks that open bootloader is equal to root, and are closing some of it's usability like nfc payment, but in Poland We've got blik so it is not a much problem.
The funniest thing is that, with custom rom You can root Your device and then hide it that it was rooted from those apps
The problem is greed of corporations -.- they are trying to raise the consumers to be mindless stupid buying idiots.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Simple answer.

Greed & profit

There's more to it then that.

This is the same answer for every other question in the world of business. The overwhelming majority of products is completely unnecessary and the distinction between them similarly, artificial. It all exists so thousands of different companies can go about selling the same, but different, thing.

This is also why we have twenty eight different cans of beans, containing the same beans. The wonders of the free market, that we are convinced is always naturally aimed at doing things as cost effectively as possible. I guess that's true... depending on how far you've zoomed out on the economy of it... and if we ignore the immense waste involved.

So its possible. But it won't be done, because there's no profit model behind it. Its much better for Microsoft and all Android phone makers to be selling their own OS for their own slice of their markets.

So here is something that is often done away with "its not possible, it cant be done" but I dont get it...

Lets take Microsoft OS, Windows, I can install Windows 10 on ANCIENT hardware, like a Core 2 Duo or even a Pentium 4, this is perfectly normal that you can do that.
I can also install Linux Unbuntu and IOS (virtual perhaps but still).

So what is up with phones and Android OS?
Why are all phones only supported for X amount of years, why are phone makers even involved? why can I just download a copy of the latest version of Android and install that on my phone?
Why are there no alternatives yet, like I know there is something like Linux on phones (heck Android is Linux derived) but its all apperenly a bit janky and out of date.

And I just dont understand why, phones are bascially small computers, heck MS now has "windows on arm" sooo can I just install windows 11 on any device that has arm based hardware?
Can I override a tablet with Android and install windows 11 on it if I wanted to?

and if not...why not? why is that world so dang different from the OS world we have known for 2 decades.

The biggest reason is these devices are running Linux on ARM CPUs. For these ARM platforms, drivers bust be compiled before booting the OS. On x86 machines, this isnt an issue because we have default drivers that can allow boot and more advanced drivers can be installed after the fact. Most x86 CPUs also have open source drivers.

This is NOT true on ARM chips. Each ROM must have its drivers at time of compilation. Most of these chips use closed source tech, and their drivers are only updated for a few years. This means once they age your OS must use older unsupported drivers on a newer OS, which since it cannot be guaranteed, most OEMs are unwilling to do. Custom ROMs can do it, but this can cause issues and as noted Qualcomm is the only company that reliably gets custom ROMs, largely because you can download their driver packs without being a corporation. Companies like mediatek will stonewall you on getting all you need to roll your own.

Also, every platform is different. Imagine if you needed a custom Windows OS install for every different motherboard and CPU combo out there. That is the reality of phones, they are a PITA to support compared to PCs.

 

[eidairaman1]

Its ab

So here is something that is often done away with "its not possible, it cant be done" but I dont get it...

Lets take Microsoft OS, Windows, I can install Windows 10 on ANCIENT hardware, like a Core 2 Duo or even a Pentium 4, this is perfectly normal that you can do that.
I can also install Linux Unbuntu and IOS (virtual perhaps but still).

So what is up with phones and Android OS?
Why are all phones only supported for X amount of years, why are phone makers even involved? why can I just download a copy of the latest version of Android and install that on my phone?
Why are there no alternatives yet, like I know there is something like Linux on phones (heck Android is Linux derived) but its all apperenly a bit janky and out of date.

And I just dont understand why, phones are bascially small computers, heck MS now has "windows on arm" sooo can I just install windows 11 on any device that has arm based hardware?
Can I override a tablet with Android and install windows 11 on it if I wanted to?

and if not...why not? why is that world so dang different from the OS world we have known for 2 decades.

Planned obsolescence, you can always try xda forums

 

[DirtyDingusMcgee]

I've spent more time on XDA forum than i care to admit. I tried to get in to custom phone roms and all that. Way too much hassle. Lineage OS is pretty cool if you have one of the exact models it specifies.

It's Samsung all the way for me. They can be quickly de-cluttered to my satisfaction. I do so much of my business on my phone these days. Samsung flavor of android pairs very well with modern windows.

There is a new one (to me at least) called GrapheneOS. Seems interesting. looks like only Pixel devices are supported. Never owned a Pixel, but they seem nice enough when i've used them.

There is always Android Open Source Project if you are nifty with coding. A bit more work than i am looking to put into my phone.

 

[eidairaman1]

Motorolla here after samsung released an ota update that bricked my A11 in 21...

I've spent more time on XDA forum than i care to admit. I tried to get in to custom phone roms and all that. Way too much hassle. Samsung all the way for me.

F

 

[_roman_]

Both smartphone and tablet from samsung needs gnu linux and the android tools to get rid of "disable only" packages. still i see some stuff which i can not really find a package on my samsung smartphone.

i talk about that - you need special knowledge and software to execute that. i did that also recently again. i think there are around 80 - 100 custom lines
the problem is the clutter package names themselves differently as the processes show them. i kept that list in my gmail, as a draft message with personal notes

pm uninstall -k --user 0 com.amazon.fv

anyway - just by chance a few hours ago on the 22nd of april i get the april security patches. the phone claims the january 2025 updates were installed on 13th february 2025.
Samsung promise of updates- I was not aware that some stuff later only gets "every 3 months" an update and than nothing.

 

[AusWolf]

Simple answer.

Greed & profit

This is the same answer for every other question in the world of business. The overwhelming majority of products is completely unnecessary and the distinction between them similarly, artificial. It all exists so thousands of different companies can go about selling the same, but different, thing.

This is also why we have twenty eight different cans of beans, containing the same beans. The wonders of the free market, that we are convinced is always naturally aimed at doing things as cost effectively as possible. I guess that's true... depending on how far you've zoomed out on the economy of it... and if we ignore the immense waste involved.

So its possible. But it won't be done, because there's no profit model behind it. Its much better for Microsoft and all Android phone makers to be selling their own OS for their own slice of their markets.

While I agree, I'm also wondering if the bazillion hardware makers and bazillion screen resolutions, etc. have anything to do with it.

Personally, I don't care if my phone gets updates or not. My current phone was already forgotten when the prototype rolled off the assembly line (the disadvantage of small brands, I guess). It's on security patch October 2023, but it works, so who cares?

 

[R-T-B]

The short answer is drivers. Hardware support on android is tied to the linux kernel the release was made for, the manufacturers furthermore refuse to open up their driver modules, and view asking for something as simple as an update as something that they should be paid megabucks for. In the PC world this culture never gained a foothold, and is rightly shunned.

Chief offenders that lead to this culture are Mediatek and Qualcomm.

 

[ZoneDymo]

The short answer is drivers. Hardware support on android is tied to the linux kernel the release was made for, the manufacturers furthermore refuse to open up their driver modules, and view asking for something as simple as an update as something that they should be paid megabucks for. In the PC world this culture never gained a foothold, and is rightly shunned.

Chief offenders that lead to this culture are Mediatek and Qualcomm.

(I do intend to read everything everyone has written here and thanks for the replies but for now just for this comment)
Ok but are you then saying that the Android version running on lets say the pixel, is not compatible with older snapdragon cpu's?

and...would that not actually require work from them to lock out? instead of just incorperating all the hardware to make it easier on themselves.

like Xiaomi has multiple phones they release with multiple hardware setups....are they seriously making a ground up OS for every single phone? that seems like complete waste of time and money.

And if not, that would suggest that I could install the OS from the latest phone from Xiaomi on my older phone right?

 

[blinnbanir]

Does anyone have an old Asus Sound card? I know Github has drivers but without those it would be the exact same. Those cards still work but have no drivers from the manufacturer to allow handshake with Windows 10+. Smartphones are the same. With the proliferation of phones though there should be someone who has found a way to write drivers for your particular phone.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Because Android ecosystem is extremely fragmented, manufacturers have no incentive to maintain their devices (quite contrary - besides, they got your money already) and the OS itself is of exceptionally poor quality. Phone manufacturers have thrown hardware at the problem over the years, but until when is that feasible?

In any case, I have many things to say about Android, not a single one of them is nice. Many people don't like being told negative things about their purchasing decisions and that's the sole reason they get away with it. If Android disappeared overnight it'd only have done the world a service. It happened to Symbian, it can happen to Android too, and I'm all too happy to do my part.

Personally, I don't care if my phone gets updates or not. My current phone was already forgotten when the prototype rolled off the assembly line (the disadvantage of small brands, I guess). It's on security patch October 2023, but it works, so who cares?

Highly secure and very well maintained for Android phone standards, nothing to complain about. Scamsung gave 3 years to the S10+, and now they claim they will support devices for up to 7 but you only get 3 major Android updates anyway because... you know, an S25 Ultra is a weak device and updating a phone is hard.

 

[mb194dc]

Because Android ecosystem is extremely fragmented, manufacturers have no incentive to maintain their devices (quite contrary - besides, they got your money already) and the OS itself is of exceptionally poor quality. Phone manufacturers have thrown hardware at the problem over the years, but until when is that feasible?

In any case, I have many things to say about Android, not a single one of them is nice. Many people don't like being told negative things about their purchasing decisions and that's the sole reason they get away with it. If Android disappeared overnight it'd only have done the world a service. It happened to Symbian, it can happen to Android too, and I'm all too happy to do my part.



Highly secure and very well maintained for Android phone standards, nothing to complain about. Scamsung gave 3 years to the S10+, and now they claim they will support devices for up to 7 but you only get 3 major Android updates anyway because... you know, an S25 Ultra is a weak device and updating a phone is hard.

So you would give your money to Apple? Or someone else ? You can always just buy a phone, delete the OS on it and put on whatever OS you want GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, LineageOS amongst others. You just need to make sure whatever phone you buy isn't Apple or a locked down phone that was meant for Android.

 

[Vayra86]

While I agree, I'm also wondering if the bazillion hardware makers and bazillion screen resolutions, etc. have anything to do with it.

Personally, I don't care if my phone gets updates or not. My current phone was already forgotten when the prototype rolled off the assembly line (the disadvantage of small brands, I guess). It's on security patch October 2023, but it works, so who cares?

Windows proves that wrong. It takes effort though, but with Android its just Google and mfgrs staring at each other waiting who blinks first.