Now US Inclines to Fine Intel for Antitrust Malpractice

Wile E · Oct 30, 2009

Benetanegia said:
There's a difference between you and me. Your own legal system and government backs me up on this. And the rest in the world, of course.

My legal system does not call rebates illegal. And the rest of the world's legal system is inconsequential in this case, and still doesn't make it right anyway.

Just drop it. We disagree completely, and it's going to stay that way until new facts are introduced.

My opinion is that they did nothing wrong, and even if they did break the law, the law is flawed and needs changed. Plain and simple.

You opinion is that they are guilty of wrong doing, and that the law is just. Plain and simple.

Does that about sum it up?

a_ump · Oct 30, 2009

lol wow how many posts can be made stating the same thing repetitively what almost 22 times? :laugh:

just let it go guys you've both made ur points. My personal opinion, have any of those cases ever released specific information to the public as to why they(korea, japan, eu) convicted intel? afaik they haven't so therefore none of us can say yay or nay on if these cases are rightous or not as we don't have near the understanding or facts that the courts do.

Solaris17 · Oct 30, 2009

It doesnt matter anyway in the long run intel and or AMD intel in this case will find another way to cleverly disguise how to choke hold the other. thats buisiness and exactly what intel did. granted rebates arent illegal but you dont know if they were good or not. and "well OEM's didnt take them" holds absoloutely no water. what if intel offered 100% or even 80? thats a huge chunk of change. and honestly the simple fact is if that was the case some OEM's either already had a contract. or feared AMD finding out and suing them. lets face it the US is sue happy we can sue DD over hot coffee and get away with it. and while rebates might not be illegal giving a rebate to choke another company is and should be. its bad buisiness. granted it might be "good" for the company in question international law states that this is bad. and so the FTC tags them simple. though as i said in the long run it wont matter. we wont see the money AMD wont see the money..our economy wont see the money and though 10% is alot of money to Intel it is not for a company that makes an unreal amount of profit 10% of that isnt going to hurt a bit. and going to court in loosing wont help either they will find a way if they want to do it again. its a never ending cat and mouse game much like the arguments weve seen in this thread. circular logic isnt going to win and the companys are playing as much as we are.

Benetanegia · Oct 30, 2009

Wile E said:
the law is flawed and needs changed. Plain and simple.

Ah, I didn't understand that part of your "reasoning". It's not that you think that Intel did not break the law, it's that you don't even trust the law. I was tinking you were debating about how that law was being executed, not the law itself. Don't take offense, but you are a hopeless case, you seem like a dinosaur out of place in the legal reality of your own country.

Damn, it could have saved me a lot of time catching that from the beginning.

@Solaris

Dots and commas please! :cry:

I agree on many parts though.

Wile E · Oct 30, 2009

Benetanegia said:
Ah, I didn't understand that part of your "reasoning". It's not that you think that Intel did not break the law, it's that you don't even trust the law. Don't take offense, but you are a hopeless case, you seem like a dinosaur out of place in the legal reality of your own country.

Damn, it could have saved me a lot of time catching that from the beginning.

And the legal reality of my country is that it is going down hill since adopting a more world-like view of business regulation. It has not benefited us, it has hindered us.

Solaris17 · Oct 30, 2009

Benetanegia said:
Ah, I didn't understand that part of your "reasoning". It's not that you think that Intel did not break the law, it's that you don't even trust the law. I was tinking you were debating about how that law was being executed, not the law itself. Don't take offense, but you are a hopeless case, you seem like a dinosaur out of place in the legal reality of your own country.

Damn, it could have saved me a lot of time catching that from the beginning.

@Solaris

Dots and commas please!
I agree on many parts though.

sorry and thanks..as many of the old TPU members will tell you i doint use alot of punctuation..apparently im kind of legend for it. the problem stems from the fact that i taught myself to type. and as such i dont use home keys or any of that BS. I type fast i just dont do it properly. and in my own teachings i neglected the punctuation keys. and as of now i havent found a way to properly impliment them into my hands controlled cascade across my KB

Benetanegia · Oct 30, 2009

Wile E said:
And the legal reality of my country is that it is going down hill since adopting a more world-like view of business regulation. It has not benefited us, it has hindered us.

You should all invest in NASA then, make some huge rockets and put your country out in the space or take it to Mars or something (moon belongs to us all). Pretending that only your country* is right and the world is wrong is sooooo pretentious and disgusting actually. TBH after the latest interventions of the US in the global economy and the war of Irak, I wouldn't miss your country at all, I think very few people would, actually. I'm sure the people that is worth from the US (which is most of them) would stay, so I'd be happy with that.

* Your old country ideas I mean, because it's no longer that way. It's not been in a long time anyway, your ideas are more like from the 70's 80's.

Solaris17 · Oct 30, 2009

Benetanegia said:
You should all invest in NASA then, make some huge rockets and put your country out in the space or take it to Mars or something (moon belongs to us all). Pretending that only your country* is right and the world is wrong is sooooo pretentious and disgusting actually. TBH after the latest interventions of the US in the global economy and the war of Irak, I wouldn't miss your country at all, I think very few people would, actually. I'm sure the people that is worth from the US (which is most of them) would stay, so I'd be happy with that.

* Your old country ideas I mean.

woah bud i live in the us too and no offense but our presidents actions in foreign relations arent a direct representation of what the people want. and i kinda dont want to be bombed off the face of the planet i quite like living sometimes. so please let us not play generalities.

Benetanegia · Oct 30, 2009

Solaris17 said:
woah bud i live in the us too and no offense but our presidents actions in foreign relations arent a direct representation of what the people want. and i kinda dont want to be bombed off the face of the planet i quite like living sometimes. so please let us not play generalities.

Like I said, you can stay. And like I also said I think it's only a small portion of the people who would go. Maybe one of the big states would do the trick, Texas maybe? Hypotheically speaking of course.

I know I went a little bit over the top, but it's just that I can't understand such pretentious actitudes.

Solaris17 · Oct 30, 2009

Benetanegia said:
Like I said, you can stay. And like I also said I think it's only a small portion of the people who would go. Maybe one of the big states would do the trick, Texas maybe? Hypotheically speaking of course.

I know I went a little bit over the top, but it's just that I can't understand such pretentious actitudes.

i understand though honestly their is alot of pretentious in the US i think were a victem of our own freedom in that right. we can say or do w/e we please to one another and its a protected right. unfortunetely most of the world thinks we are just a bunch of people with attitude problems and sadly compared to the rest of the world..we do.

troyrae360 · Oct 30, 2009

Wile E said:
My legal system does not call rebates illegal. And the rest of the world's legal system is inconsequential in this case, and still doesn't make it right anyway.

Rebates are definitley not illegal, BUT when you are offreing rebates on an agrement that you will not buy something off of another company then it becomes Illegal, Its basicley blackmail (Also illegal).

hat · Oct 30, 2009

Benetanegia said:
You should all invest in NASA then, make some huge rockets and put your country out in the space or take it to Mars or something (moon belongs to us all). Pretending that only your country* is right and the world is wrong is sooooo pretentious and disgusting actually. TBH after the latest interventions of the US in the global economy and the war of Irak, I wouldn't miss your country at all, I think very few people would, actually. I'm sure the people that is worth from the US (which is most of them) would stay, so I'd be happy with that.

* Your old country ideas I mean, because it's no longer that way. It's not been in a long time anyway, your ideas are more like from the 70's 80's.

And you're not [pretentious] huh? :shadedshu

Benetanegia · Oct 30, 2009

hat said:
And you're not [pretentious] huh? :shadedshu

I'm not being pretentious at all. Not on this subject at least (I'm half spanish so pretention is as installed on me as solaris said about the US citizens).

How is it any pretentious to agree to and support what almost all law system models in the world have dictated? Pretending that your ideas are over the laws of your country is pretentious, pretending you are over the world ones is just... well I dont know a word for that.

sneekypeet · Oct 30, 2009

This ends here... all this sidetrack BS is not needed in the news section. If you would like to discuss law and politics, please do so via our handy PM system.

Consider this fair warning to you all.

eidairaman1 · Oct 30, 2009

lol, Intel is getting bitten hard now.

Wile E · Oct 30, 2009

sneekypeet said:
This ends here... all this sidetrack BS is not needed in the news section. If you would like to discuss law and politics, please do so via our handy PM system.

Consider this fair warning to you all.

No offense peety, but this is a political and/or law oriented topic. I don't see how our discussion is OT, tbh. If you guys didn't want this to turn political, this topic probably shouldn't have even been posted in the first place.

Again, no offense, I just don't see how we are OT.

Easy Rhino · Oct 30, 2009

Wile E said:
No offense peety, but this is a political and/or law oriented topic. I don't see how our discussion is OT, tbh. If you guys didn't want this to turn political, this topic probably shouldn't have even been posted in the first place.

Again, no offense, I just don't see how we are OT.

it is not the political discussion it is the name calling.

eidairaman1 · Oct 30, 2009

yup Slinging Mud and other unmentionables at one another.

WhiteLotus · Oct 30, 2009

Wile E:

I agree with you in some parts but not in others. Whilst i am not up to 100% knowledge on the market laws in the US i shall try to explain what i mean:

You are a company, a very large company... internationally big. You want to make some more money but see a competitor is doing very well. You sit back and ponder on what to do. You come up with rebates, so then you go of to the market and tell everyone that if you buy x amount of product you will get x amount back in the form of a rebate. Job done, market buys lots of your product and sales increase slightly.

Now as i understand it, this is NOT illegal and as it should be of course. Nothing here was wrong, you merely offered a rebate, it was up to the market to decide whether to take it and the competitor was still allowed to compete.

Now the same company in the same market, decides no no no, this is not enough. And goes back to the market and tells them that if they do not buy the product at x and NOT buy the competitors then the price of the product will increase vastly. The market still wants the product and decides to purchase it on the cheap, under the condition that it does not buy from any other competitor for a while.

This as it stands IS illegal. It is blocking the competitor and restricting a "free" market. Why now, has there been NO blame placed on the market and all of i only placed on the big company is beyond me, but is stupid in itself. Whether the law is proper or not can't be helped but the companies actions go against that law and therefore are open to punishment.

Other things i would look at is WHEN the company did this, and WHEN the law came into effect. They may get lucky and find the law was put into place after this happened and therefore they did not do anything wrong as it was not illegal at the time. Also again i would look into the market and ask why no-one in it spoke up and questioned the companies actions.

EDIT: With TMM post below, this is only a statement that an investigation has/will be started. Intel has not been found guilty of anything yet, and as the US law system works differently a different result may be found.

TheMailMan78 · Oct 30, 2009

I hate threads like this. It brings out the worst in people. Bta deleted my first post but it predicted the future of this thread back on page one. The only thing it has done is establish that some people hate the US and blame them for everything. Relevant or not.

One thing you people have to realize is in the U.S. we are innocent unless proven guilty. An investigation is just that. An investigation. It means nothing by our laws.

One thing I will say is I feel there should be infractions handed out. If I were to go around and talk about hurting other countries on this forum just because "I don't like them" infractions would be abundant. I would expect them with such bold statements.

People should have respect for people no matter what country they are from. You should never judge a person based off of their government. If you do then YOU are a dinosaur of the past.

mdm-adph · Oct 30, 2009

TheMailMan78 said:
I hate threads like this. It brings out the worst in people. Bta deleted my first post but it predicted the future of this thread back on page one. The only thing it has done is establish that some people hate the US and blame them for everything. Relevant or not.

I'm at my best when you think I'm at my worst. :laugh:

TheMailMan78 said:
One thing you people have to realize is in the U.S. we are innocent unless proven guilty. An investigation is just that. An investigation. It means nothing by our laws.

That's pre-9/11 thinking there, sonny. The US has been performing "indefinite detention without trial" for a while now, and not just of foreign nationals, either. That "innocent unless proven guilty" crap died a long time ago, even in the US.

Sucks when one's own medicine is used against them, eh?

TheMailMan78 said:
People should have respect for people no matter what country they are from. You should never judge a person based off of their government. If you do then YOU are a dinosaur of the past.

I... seriously can't believe you, of all people, just said that. :confused:

Wile E · Oct 31, 2009

WhiteLotus said:
.......Now the same company in the same market, decides no no no, this is not enough. And goes back to the market and tells them that if they do not buy the product at x and NOT buy the competitors then the price of the product will increase vastly. The market still wants the product and decides to purchase it on the cheap, under the condition that it does not buy from any other competitor for a while.

This as it stands IS illegal. It is blocking the competitor and restricting a "free" market............

No it isn't. It's an exclusivity agreement. Perfectly legal. Just to use an example from a different market, car manufacturers get rebates on electronic parts (circuit boards, ecu's, etc.) if they sign exclusivity agreements with certain manufacturers.

WhiteLotus said:
Why now, has there been NO blame placed on the market and all of i only placed on the big company is beyond me, but is stupid in itself.

That's one of the key aspects of these Intel cases that confuses me, regardless of their country of origin.

WhiteLotus said:
Whether the law is proper or not can't be helped but the companies actions go against that law and therefore are open to punishment.

I realize that, but just feel that it still doesn't make it right.

WhiteLotus said:
Other things i would look at is WHEN the company did this, and WHEN the law came into effect. They may get lucky and find the law was put into place after this happened and therefore they did not do anything wrong as it was not illegal at the time. Also again i would look into the market and ask why no-one in it spoke up and questioned the companies actions.

I wasn't even going to bring that into the discussion, but I think this occurred after it became law anyway.

Thanks for not attacking me on my views, btw. It really is appreciated after the way this thread has gone for a couple of pages. :toast:

AsRock · Oct 31, 2009

So who got the 1.06 Billion euro's did AMD actually get to see this money as seen as they were the ones damaged by it ?.

FordGT90Concept · Oct 31, 2009

It went into the EU's coffers.

Kantastic · Oct 31, 2009

AsRock said:
So who got the 1.06 Billion euro's did AMD actually get to see this money as seen as they were the ones damaged by it ?.

They probably got to see it. :toast:

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