Can some give me a very basic tutorial on the logic behind installing SSDs vs non-SSD hard drives?

[Phaewryn]

I'm building a new machine, and my goal is for it to be less noisy than my current one. I know that SSDs are quiet. However, I can't afford to install 5 of them to store everything on my new system, so I will have to also have a regular hard drive for my personal file storage.
So, what I want to understand is:

1. When you can only buy 1 or 2 SSDs, you can put JUST the operating system on the SSD, and that makes the computer "crunch" less, right? Or is that incorrect? Most of the articles I have read are all about SPEED, not noise. I love speed, things happening faster would be great, but my main goal is reduction of hard drive noise.

2. If I have, in particular, an antivirus program that makes my current hard drive crunch loudly when it scans/updates. If I put the antivirus program on the SSD with the OS, will that STOP all the noise when it scans the system, or will it still crunch when it scans the regular (non-SSD) personal file storage drive?

3. How big of a SSD do I need to purchase to house the JUST the OS (Windows 7 Pro 64 bit) and the system image backup, restore files, etc, all the system stuff?

4. What should I put on SSDs as opposed to on the regular storage drive? Should I strive to put all my frequently used installed programs on SSDs? Or should ALL programs be on the SSD? Should all parts of my Steam games all be on the SSD? Should EVERYTHING except my documents, photos, and videos be on SSDs? Is it okay put the OS on one SSD and all the Programs on another one (or two)?

5. HOW do I do this? I've never had more than one drive in a computer at a time before, and I have no idea how to make things go to/be in various multiple drives. Is there a program I need to install to manage this process? Will the system just see the multiple drives if they are all plugged in before I install the OS? And then how do I tell it "this goes in this one, that goes in that one?" Is it better/easier to install the one SSD you want the OS on first, set up the system, THEN put in the other SSD drive and install programs, THEN put in the storage hard drive and copy your personal files to it, so it for sure puts the OS and Programs in the SSDs you want them in?

This machine is on my desk about 2 feet from my ear, and I'd really like to tone it down a few notches. The fan noise is annoying, and I am resolving that, but the "crunch crunch whir grind crunch churn crunch" of the hard drive is more annoying than the fan whine. I need help understanding if one can/how to use SSDs to reduce the hard drive noise level. The simpler you can make it, the better. Thanks!
(a link to a tutorial that keeps it really basic is a perfectly fine response)

 

[manofthem]

1. Ssds are not only uber fast but silent because there are no moving parts. If you have a noisy hdd and are accessing something on it, you'll still hear it, but I think it'll be less annoying since it won't be constant.

2&4. Install OS, programs, and stuff always accessed on the ssd; put lots of data on hdd.

3. I wouldn't want an ssd <250gb, you don't want to pressed for storage. With a 250gb, you'll have plenty of space for OS, programs, stuff like that.

5. When you're ready to install Windows, plug in only the ssd that will be the boot drive (along with whatever you're installing from, be it USB or dvdrom). Finish windows installation, and then plug in additional drives.

Additionally, if your hdd is super loud, it might be getting old so maybe think of replacing it.

 

[Dia01]

Hi Phaewryn,

Without answering every question raised by dot point, what I can tell you is what I prefer. I run an SSD purely for the OS and use a larger partitioned mechanical HDD to store any personal files like music, documents, videos, downloads, games etc. All applications like antivirus, photoshop etc. are installed on the SSD, there wouldn't be any point doing it any other way. This way everything is far snappier from boot up through to access time with less noise as a bonus. I would recommend a minimum size of 120GB for the SSD but I find 250GB onwards a much more suitable size. Also if you want to refresh/reinstall windows, all personal docs will still be on the other drive, not the OS drive. Just my two cents anyway.

 

[RejZoR]

Either go full SSD or hybrid HDD+SSD configuration. Using SSD for boot drive is a total waste of SSD potential because all you make is boot the system fast. It'll still be same slow crap for everything else unless it's installed on SSD. Going HDD+SSD hybrid is still the best and cheapest way. We are still a bit far away from the point where SSD's entirely replace all our storage drives. They are just too big and too cheap. But also slow. SSD cache offsets that as well.

 

[xorbe]

Nothing wrong with OS on the SSD, that makes it feel snappy. Put the Office apps there too. Games can live on spinners, or just keep your most often played game on the SSD.

 

[Phaewryn]

Thanks everyone!

Anyone have any specific brands of SSDs you prefer/recommend? Or absolutely avoid?

 

[95Viper]

2. If I have, in particular, an antivirus program that makes my current hard drive crunch loudly when it scans/updates. If I put the antivirus program on the SSD with the OS, will that STOP all the noise when it scans the system, or will it still crunch when it scans the regular (non-SSD) personal file storage drive?

For the novice... use Windows OS built in A/V and firewall (as long as you are not going to suspicious sites, downloading/running files from unknown sources, torrenting, etc.).

If your HDD is making crunching noises, you may want to test it... it may need to be replaced. A light clicking when running is not unusual, though; but, crunching noises are usually not good.
If you know how to test it and check the smart data or, even, run an extended smart test, you should.

Quote from HGST (Hitachi) site:

HGST Windows Drive Fitness Test (WinDFT)
WinDFT is a utility that will quickly test your HGST internal and external hard disk drives. WinDFT will perform read tests without overwriting customer data. WinDFT also has additional utilities if you need to wipe the disk clean of data.

Links:

WinDFT SETUP AND USERS GUIDE

DOWNLOAD WinDFT

Antivirus is for suckers

Your opinion; and, not really a helpful statement for the general users, unless, you are going to educate them on the how and whys of your statement.
I understand your view; however, probably, quite a few don't.
Just my POV.

 

[manofthem]

Your opinion; and, not really a helpful statement for the general users, unless, you are going to educate them on the how and whys of your statement.
I understand your view; however, probably, quite a few don't.
Just my POV.

It was more of a joke, hence the tongue smilie but your point is well taken and I'll edit it out.



Also @Phaewryn: the rig i'm on now just got an ssd swapped in, and it had been running on a hdd for forever. This hdd used to drive me nuts making so much noise; I'd hear it from my pc ~6 feet away. After I swapped my ssd in here as a system drive, I don't think I've heard it once even while sitting here at this pc.

 

[Phaewryn]

If your HDD is making crunching noises, you may want to test it... it may need to be replaced. A light clicking when running is not unusual, though; but, crunching noises are usually not good.
If you know how to test it and check the smart data or, even, run an extended smart test, you should.

My boyfriend also says a hard drive shouldn't be loud and make crunching noises, but he also swears his do not make any noise. I hear all of them, including his (he doesn't hear his because his desk is in another room from his computers anyway). Maybe it's because I have some ear drum scar tissue and anxiety, but I find it really obnoxious (I am very sensitive to sound). I have tested my current hard drive, it did have a few errors, but I really don't think it's failing any more than it was a year ago (it's all backed up elsewhere anyway), it made this noise when it was new (about 5 years ago), and so do all hard drives that I have ever heard. Like I said, maybe I'm really sensitive to it, maybe it doesn't sound like a crunching/grinding noise to normal people, I find the ticking of a wall clock unbearable. Anyway, one of the points of building a new computer is to replace this one, so I'm not going to buy a replacement hdd for this machine, just seeking advice on which way to go in the new machine I'm working on. Silence is a big priority in it, and since I've never even seen a SSD in real life, I thought it wise to educate myself a bit before making a purchase decision. Thanks for the advice.

It was more of a joke, hence the tongue smilie but your point is well taken and I'll edit it out.

Also @Phaewryn: the rig i'm on now just got an ssd swapped in, and it had been running on a hdd for forever. This hdd used to drive me nuts making so much noise; I'd hear it from my pc ~6 feet away. After I swapped my ssd in here as a system drive, I don't think I've heard it once even while sitting here at this pc.

No big deal on the antivirus comment, I'm not here to discuss that anyway, I only brought it up because it's the only PREDICTABLE time (now that I turned off indexing) my current computer always makes the sound I am trying to not have the new computer make. I'm really glad I am not the only person that can hear that noise, so thank you for making me feel less like a freak. I'll definitely shell out the extra $$$ for the SSD option in the new machine after reading the advice here. Thanks everyone!

 

[Iceni]

Best way to avoid the noise is to build a second PC from old parts and move all the hard drives to somewhere where noise isn't a problem. Then network the 2 PC's so you have constant acess to the machine. Even better set up Teamviewer so you can remote the now server, and queue downloads directly to that machine.

Then resolve the current problems with the PC.

Fans alone might not be enough. The PSU will likely be noisy, And if you are using stock cooling then that may also be working pretty hard depending on the demand you throw at it.

Since you are also using it for music and probably arn't overly bothered with performance there are a few options that you may like.

Firstly you can pick up a solid state PSU provided you can keep the PC's power draw low. Pico PSUs have no fan, and use a power brick to convert to 12v. However most supply far less wattage than a regular unit. The advantage is there 100% silent. The disadvantage is you have to build with them in mind.

http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT-102-power-kit

CPU wise you should be at about 65 watts, My advice is get a 55w cpu like the g3258, and match it with a decent air cooler like a Hyper 212 or similar. While this might seem overkill on a silent profile that fan will almost never spin up.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/inte...ocket-lga1150-processor-retail-cp-531-in.html

Get a decent motherboard for the G3258 a Z97 based one is ideal, It'll give a few more ports in most cases. And the price difference in z97, h81, h97 and b85 (all socket 1150) is generally very little.

The CPU has on board graphics so pick a motherboard with HDMI out as well. I like the MSI Z97 PC Mate Intel Z97 it's generally cheap, and it's got multiple outputs for monitors. If you do need a seperate graphics card for multiple monitors then be very very careful with the power draw if you go with a pico psu. There are higher wattage models available so look about, but the PSU will always be a limiting factor with this kind of build.

Ram is easy 16gb of anything 1600mhz and higher. Go for cheap but well branded, Kingston, Corsair, Teamskill, Patriot. Your not gaming and benchmarking so get what fits the budget. If you go with a board like that MSI I listed 2x8gb or 4x4gb would both work. 32gb is a bit much plus your going to need a better version of windows 7 to use more than 16gb, since 16 is home premiums limit.

With a 1tb ssd for storage like the samsung 1tb 850 evo.

The SSD will be the biggest cost, the rest will be pretty cheap. And it should make a PC that is whisper quiet in almost all operation.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

You might want to post a thread in System Builder's Advice Be clear that you are looking to build a silent system, and what you want to do with it.
Your current system is most likely thrashing the HDD because of your limited RAM.
My first recommendation would be a case designed for silence, like the Fractal Design Define R5

 

[RejZoR]

Nothing wrong with OS on the SSD, that makes it feel snappy. Put the Office apps there too. Games can live on spinners, or just keep your most often played game on the SSD.

Which is what you don't have to do with HDD+SSD hybrid setups. Software does that for you automatically. So it doesn't matter what game from a huge HDD you want to play, it'll cache it on faster SSD and it'll run and load faster. With SSD, you'll have to specifically install things to it in order to make them fast and that part is just stupid.

I can't wait the day I'll be able to have just 2TB SSD in my system, but that is still what I estimate as up to 3 years away. 2TB SSD is currently around 700€. And I'd prefer a M.2 solution over crappy SATA. Less cables, more speed.

 

[zo0lykas]

i would never go and dont recommend any more go for silence case, due VERY bad ventilation, and MASSIVE heat inside

You might want to post a thread in System Builder's Advice Be clear that you are looking to build a silent system, and what you want to do with it.
Your current system is most likely thrashing the HDD because of your limited RAM.
My first recommendation would be a case designed for silence, like the Fractal Design Define R5

 

[Iceni]

i would never go and dont recommend any more go for silence case, due VERY bad ventilation, and MASSIVE heat inside

I agree with this, I recently had to rebuild a silent PC because of these points. The company had put a 95W cpu in a case that uses the case wall as a massive passive heatsink. The PC was literally cooking the ram and living on thermal throttle. It was a case of badly chosen components.

The rebuild I did was almost identical to the build above. With a few subtle changes.

HTPC zalman case,
Gigabyte z97 motherboard.
4x4GB corsair 1600mhz
TV card
200W pico psu
Intel g3258
Scythe Kozuti (due to height restrictions)
2tb spinner drive
250gb SSD

That setup was only audible from right next to the PC in a very quiet room. And the temps were 30 celcius idle and 50 celcius full load, on silent profiles. So silent with well balanced active cooling is not only possible it can be done on a reasonable budget and not overheat anything.

The only major mod that had to be done was a couple of power extenders, A blanking plate for the PSU hole made in black plastic, and a hole drilled for the Pico PSU's power connector in the back of the case. It certainly wasn't as time consuming as I was expecting, It added about 90 mins to the build time, and all the mods were made before any component was in the case.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

i would never go and dont recommend any more go for silence case, due VERY bad ventilation, and MASSIVE heat inside

I think you might mean a system without fans, which I don't. It's very possible to build an almost inaudible system that's also cool and powerful.

 

[r.h.p]

My Intel Speed Demon SSD works very well . Compared to Old 7200rpm drives no comparison. Especially boot up and load times for Operating Systems and programs. Also Install with new software eg: Win 7 / 8 / 10 was easy . Good Luck.

Also if you do a self install its easy . The new drive will connect to the Sata adapter . It will have to be Screwed into a smaller section. If running a windows already it will recognise the new drive.
But too optimise the power off the new SSD remove the old drive and install a fresh
Win Setup,
so
the pc
can recognise the new drive. I would recommend a upgraded Win OPS. Once the new drive is in control you can add the old drive back with no problems .

regards rob hope this helps

 

[Phaewryn]

You might want to post a thread in System Builder's Advice Be clear that you are looking to build a silent system, and what you want to do with it.
Your current system is most likely thrashing the HDD because of your limited RAM.
My first recommendation would be a case designed for silence, like the Fractal Design Define R5

I have 4GB ram in the current system, it's all the board can hold, and it's 32 bit, so any more is pointless. That's why I'm building a new machine. It's really outdated.

Best way to avoid the noise is to build a second PC from old parts and move all the hard drives to somewhere where noise isn't a problem. Then network the 2 PC's so you have constant acess to the machine. Even better set up Teamviewer so you can remote the now server, and queue downloads directly to that machine.

Then resolve the current problems with the PC.

Fans alone might not be enough. The PSU will likely be noisy, And if you are using stock cooling then that may also be working pretty hard depending on the demand you throw at it.

Since you are also using it for music and probably arn't overly bothered with performance there are a few options that you may like.

Firstly you can pick up a solid state PSU provided you can keep the PC's power draw low. Pico PSUs have no fan, and use a power brick to convert to 12v. However most supply far less wattage than a regular unit. The advantage is there 100% silent. The disadvantage is you have to build with them in mind.

http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT-102-power-kit

CPU wise you should be at about 65 watts, My advice is get a 55w cpu like the g3258, and match it with a decent air cooler like a Hyper 212 or similar. While this might seem overkill on a silent profile that fan will almost never spin up.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/inte...ocket-lga1150-processor-retail-cp-531-in.html

Get a decent motherboard for the G3258 a Z97 based one is ideal, It'll give a few more ports in most cases. And the price difference in z97, h81, h97 and b85 (all socket 1150) is generally very little.

The CPU has on board graphics so pick a motherboard with HDMI out as well. I like the MSI Z97 PC Mate Intel Z97 it's generally cheap, and it's got multiple outputs for monitors. If you do need a seperate graphics card for multiple monitors then be very very careful with the power draw if you go with a pico psu. There are higher wattage models available so look about, but the PSU will always be a limiting factor with this kind of build.

Ram is easy 16gb of anything 1600mhz and higher. Go for cheap but well branded, Kingston, Corsair, Teamskill, Patriot. Your not gaming and benchmarking so get what fits the budget. If you go with a board like that MSI I listed 2x8gb or 4x4gb would both work. 32gb is a bit much plus your going to need a better version of windows 7 to use more than 16gb, since 16 is home premiums limit.

With a 1tb ssd for storage like the samsung 1tb 850 evo.

The SSD will be the biggest cost, the rest will be pretty cheap. And it should make a PC that is whisper quiet in almost all operation.

I should have probably posted more detail, but anyway, I have already purchased many of the parts for the new build, and have decided on "to buys" waiting on the newegg wishlist for most of the rest of it. The only parts I have not decided on or already purchased are the video card (really a matter of what the best I can buy for the $ after all the rest of the parts are purchased, aiming for a radeon r9), the case fans (leaning towards Be Silent fans - noctua is another option), and the hard drives (which is the purpose of this thread).

The parts I already have:
Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H-BK motherboard
EVGA 220-G2-0850-XR 80 850W powersupply
Intel i5-4690K Devil's Canyon Quad-Core 3.5 GHz LGA 1150 BX80646I54690K cpu

The parts on my newegg wishlist waiting for funds:
Coolermaster MasterCase 5 Mid-Tower case
Be quiet! Dark Rock 3 SilentWings cpu cooler
Crucial Ballistix Tactical DDR3 1600 Low Profile 8gb each ram strips (waiting for restock - open to other options but really want that yellow color)
Windows 7 Pro 64 bit os (I hate 10 passionately)

Which is what you don't have to do with HDD+SSD hybrid setups. Software does that for you automatically. So it doesn't matter what game from a huge HDD you want to play, it'll cache it on faster SSD and it'll run and load faster. With SSD, you'll have to specifically install things to it in order to make them fast and that part is just stupid.

I can't wait the day I'll be able to have just 2TB SSD in my system, but that is still what I estimate as up to 3 years away. 2TB SSD is currently around 700€. And I'd prefer a M.2 solution over crappy SATA. Less cables, more speed.

Can you link me to a few of the hybrids you're speaking of? I have no experience or knowledge about them. Thanks.

i would never go and dont recommend any more go for silence case, due VERY bad ventilation, and MASSIVE heat inside

I briefly considered a Be Quiet brand case, but they get awful reviews online. I want a case with a window, I know that it's a bad sound barrier, but I am putting a lot of money into sexy parts, and I need to see them. I've decided on a Coolermaster Mastercase 5. My current case is an original Coolermaster Storm Scout, and it's been a beast of a case and hasn't done me a single wrong. The only downfall was it has a ventilated window and no filters. The new mastercase solves all that, windowed but not ventilated, and has a psu filter (I've found an aftermarket filtering option for the rest of the case). It's very important that my new case have top handles so I can chain it to my loft bed so my nutcase cats don't knock it off the desk, and I am a big fan of Coolermaster's solid steel construction.

 

[fusionblu]

I have had a quick review of this thread so far and I'm surprised to see no one has suggested using a rubber noise dampening block for the hard drive.

For the one I use for my 8TB 3.5" HDD my noise dampening blocks are partly an adapter as it is also for putting a 3.5" HDD in a 5.25" optical drive bay as well as reducing noise.
The dampening blocks I use do actually work, but I couldn't recommending where to buy any from as my ones are 10+ years old from my older PC builds over the years.

Another point I noticed for the HDD noise is that if it is not a HDD fault it could be due to the HDD being poorly fitted into it's bay or the bay the HDD is fitted into has a poor shock absorbing design which does not absorb the mechanical movement of your hard drive well.
I would recommend running a hardware test or diagnostic tool to see if your hard drive has a fault and I am aware Seagate has a good application for this in their Seagate Tools suites.

Only other bit of knowledge I can add is that a 3.5" HDD is likely to be more noisy than a 2.5" due to more moving parts and there is little to no SSD as there are no moving parts.
High speed HDDs are overrate for performance and more noisy than the 5400 RPM 2.5" or 5900RPM 3.5" HDDs which are fine in both area (performance and noise).
Also a fast HDD can't hope to keep up with a SSD in performance.
Hybrid HDDs or SSHDs (internally combined SSD and HDD) are pointless for storage compared to a normal HDD and would only be useful if used as a main OS HDD to make use of the performance boost which is only a little better than a normal HDD.
I would recommend checking specs for the SSHDs and check reviews before buying to see if they meet your interests.

Also for the fan noise I recommend doing research for good fans and examining specs closely.
Bitfenix and Akasa do good fans, but there are many alternatives to choose from such as Be Quite.

I would personally recommend a 200mm or 230mm Bitfenix Spectre PRO as it is both fairly quite and high performance if your case or PC build can use one, but most PC cases can only have one where as I am fortunate to have a case which can have three with a front, top and side.
Screw point spacing for the 180mm, 200mm and 230mm are the same.

Also here are some answers for each of the points you were asking:

1. The less you make the HDD used for anything the less noises it will make so dedicating the OS and most application to your SSD and mostly using the HDD for storage could help with this.
2. If the Anti-Virus is on the SSD then there is not likely to be noise from the HDD when an update is done unless it uses the HDD for something, but for scan the HDD will get noisy when the Anti-virus comes to scanning the HDD as the HDD is being used by the anti-virus for the scan.
If the HDD is excluded from the scan then it is not likely the HDD will make any significant noises during a scan.
3. Minimum would be 128GB but due to the need to frequently move and manage data I would recommend at least a 256GB SSD and with a 512GB SSD or above SSD you can stay lazy with managing data for longer.
4. For SSD it is better to keep OS, Applications and most games on the SSD and light amount of documents are better left on the SSD. For HDD it is better to have movie, music and photo files on the drive as they often have the larger file sizes and these files in particular are often built up more than applications for most people; especially movies and TV series. For photos asides from the file size another factor is that if an SSD is to fail it is most likely to fail completely where as when a HDD fails it is usually still functional and you can still recover data under most circumstances so this would be very important for personal family photos, etc.
5. The boot priority set from the BIOS on your PC's motherboard should ensure your machine boots from the correct drive first and as for multiple drives the operating system should manage this for you, but for clean reinstall of OS I recommend only having the main OS drive connected for reinstall and initial set of operating system updates so the other drives aren't spammed with files from updates or potentially from the installation which shouldn't even be there.

For the section part for 5 I would explain my current PC which makes use of multiple drives which should help for general knowledge.
-Keep OS and most Applications on my 512GB SSD (used to have a 256GB which was good enough for this, but I wanted enough space to be lazy with managing data as I download a lot of video files and rip CDs into .flac files).
-Keep games and other occasional data on 1TB SSD (over the top for most people, but saves me the trouble of re-downloading a game which are often 20GB+ when I have gotten bored of it and may want to play it again at a later date; also good for modding games and leaving it in the same configuration when I get back to it at a later date).
-Use my own advice and keep large or important media on 8TB and I also have a 2TB 2.5" which used to be my main storage drive, but is simply too small due to my continued use to date and will soon migrate most of the large media to the 8TB.

In relation to my build I would advise being a bit familiar with Disk Management for windows for assigning letters for each drive and if you have a hard drive or any driver larger than 2TB you should format the drive with it's partition table as GUID as Master Boot Record partition table is limited to a maximum of 2TB.
If you try to format a HDD larger than 2TB then Disk Management would try making multiple partitions which are only 2TB at maximum on the drive would try to make four 2TB partitions on my 8TB HDD.

For hardware assembly with my build I fitted the 1TB SSD and storage HDDs after doing clean OS install, driver updates and OS updates which was perfectly fine.
The added drives were detected normally by my OS and letters were assigned my default automatic settings and letters can be changed around for a better drive order while in the OS if needed.
My 1TB SSD already had Steam games from my previous build and I only had to adjust settings on Steam so the Library would detect my games installed on the 1TB SSD.

I hope this all helps and good luck with your PC build.