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Intel's Skylake-X, Kaby Lake-X HEDT CPUs to use TIM; Won't be Soldered

Solidstate89 said:
No, he definitely means 44.

intel-x-series-x299_Page_19.png
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-4 for the chipset interface means 40 for you to use or 24 for the i7 7820K , one can do two full bandwith dual gpus , one cannot and given their both HEDT thats not good enough to me, neither is Shitty tim for direct mounting a IHS.
good luck selling a shit ton of these intel, the potential for customer(admittedly uneducated) complaint here due to this memory slot wont work or pciex wont work is ridiculous.

oh look an official intel slide, showing what they planned with the added "shit threadripper you guys, tut" additions that you cant buy for another few months pretty much slapped on top.
 
I guess delid tool will be bundled with CPUs.
 
I really had trouble believing this when it was first posted.

I'll be frank: I'm flabberghasted. This is so dumb it's having me on the verge of going Ryzen just in protest.
 
Well it at least seems like xmas for the hedt crowd, it's raining skus.
 
112w TDP on an i5. You wot?

Nothing to see here, this is Intel doing an 'old AMD' yelling 'MOAR CORES' and 'HIGHER CLOCKS'.... with all the added goodness of higher power consumption. This isn't progress, it's a step back. It is poverty on Intel's part.
 
Vayra86 said:
112w TDP on an i5. You wot?

Nothing to see here, this is Intel doing an 'old AMD' yelling 'MOAR CORES' and 'HIGHER CLOCKS'.... with all the added goodness of higher power consumption. This isn't progress, it's a step back. It is poverty on Intel's part.
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I didn't see that ,that is quite high for four non Ht cores ,in fact insanely high.
Only 16 pciex channels and dual channel memory too , doesn't sound appealing.
 
R-T-B said:
I really had trouble believing this when it was first posted.

I'll be frank: I'm flabberghasted. This is so dumb it's having me on the verge of going Ryzen just in protest.
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Depending how the benchmarks turn out, it may be less of a protest and more of just a smart decision. I am with you though... if everyone simply refused to buy these CPU's and instead just did a big sh*t in a box and sent it to Intel's head office, they might actually pay attention. Of course, this won't happen, but one can dream.

Anyone buying X299 is part of the problem, you're just enabling them. Why the hell are they ever going to do any different if they can make more money cutting corners? No business man in their right mind wouldn't advocate this strategy, so if you insist on buying Intel, accept that you will eat their sh*t and stop complaining.
 
BorisDG said:
Those CPUs are joke. TIM, 28 lanes and up to 11MB cache... lol
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http://images.anandtech.com/galleri...rocessor_family_near_final-page-016_575px.jpg
Skylake-X has a redesigned cache hierarchy. At least since Nehalem, Intel have used inclusive L3 caches, which means that everything in L2 is duplicated in L3, the purpose of this is when multiple threads accesses the same cache line, accessing it from L3 is much faster than system memory. The cache can contain either data or code. In real life data is usually present in the cache for microseconds or less, contrary to popular belief, the "important stuff" is not retained in the cache. So for data the L2/L3 cache is just a streaming buffer, constantly changing it's content as the threads processes the data. Usually >90% of the cache or so is data, and since cache lines are constantly replaced, multiple threads basically share nearly "nothing". In essence, the inclusive L3 cache is wasting almost 256kB per core.

Making the L3 non-inclusive and exchanging some of it for more L2 cache will increase cache usage, and may help some use cases quite a bit.

-----

And why is 28 PCIe lanes a problem? It doesn't matter for gaming, even in SLI. Anyone needing more PCIe lanes would be doing some serious compute workloads, and would require one of the more expensive CPUs anyway.
 
Congratulations, you made everyone go and ask WTF to the max, especially with pricing and the lack of soldering for such expensive CPUs. I guess it is time for AMD to be Ryzen above the competition
 
I have to wonder, does intel use crap tim because they plan on somewhere down the track replacing the TIM with 'better tim v1', then 'better tim v2', then 'better tim v3' etc?

With each successive tim, they get an extra 100mhz, and the ability to call it the 'next generation', eventually eking out the processors to somewhere just over 5ghz.

But, they won't start this slow progression til they exhaust all other avenues to processor improvements... (i.e. it's a few to several years away).

They will milk the consumers with other 'new generation' chips along the way (smaller nodes) til they hit the limit. And this ability to replace the tim provides them a few more years of 'new generation' chips on top.

i.e. Their holding an ace up the sleeve (or more appropriate, the joker).
 
The reality is, that many seem to miss, is that delidding really doesnt get many people much. Even a 20C drop (way way towards the high end and a minority result) may yield you 100mhz, maybe 200 mhz... if you are lucky. Best not be voltage limited/at the voltage wall...

This is good for benchmarking, but for most, not much real world in the least. For those that want to 'see' lower temps that are within spec, well, i understand, but, go see a psychologist and get over it. :p
 
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theoneandonlymrk said:
-4 for the chipset interface means 40 for you to use or 24 for the i7 7820K
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I think they are listing usable lanes, not including the lanes for the chipset. Otherwise the 7740 and 7640 would only have 12 usable lanes...
 
Is this what Intel is preparing to counter AMD? silly joke.
They better stick with the 7700K as last released CPU and start developing something trully new.
 
atomicus said:
Depending how the benchmarks turn out, it may be less of a protest and more of just a smart decision. I am with you though... if everyone simply refused to buy these CPU's and instead just did a big sh*t in a box and sent it to Intel's head office, they might actually pay attention. Of course, this won't happen, but one can dream.

Anyone buying X299 is part of the problem, you're just enabling them. Why the hell are they ever going to do any different if they can make more money cutting corners? No business man in their right mind wouldn't advocate this strategy, so if you insist on buying Intel, accept that you will eat their sh*t and stop complaining.
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It's done.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/ryzen-owners-zen-garden.231658/page-11#post-3667963
 
http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/

There's your answer about CPU soldering.

They know exactly what they are doing and the reason for conventional thermal paste in recent desktop CPUs is not as simple as it seems.

Micro cracks in solder preforms can damage the CPU permanently after a certain amount of thermal cycles and time. Conventional thermal paste doesn’t perform as good as the solder preform but it should have a longer durability – especially for small size DIE CPUs.
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Jism said:
http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/

There's your answer about CPU soldering.
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I wonder why AMD and my old Sandy doesn't care about that. Anyways there will be a higher fail ratio on the line... on the other hand it has cracks, the die coat is defective anyways so... you are buying a non perfect that should have died on the assembly line anyways... I really don't dig the idea, especially for the price.
 
R0H1T said:
So, do your solders properly! Does Intel also recommend their server buyers to delid their CPU & get the temps in check :rolleyes:
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I really lol at this article... some mumbling only... I chuckled on the pic about the deformed PCB...

The cracks or voids can me made only when reaching Tj max. After that it will boil and yeah... who cares about cracks after your cpu is dead eventually... there are xrays... well they did actually boil the CPU somehow... not in a motherboard for sure as the thing should be dead. Actually the glue is also elastic, during the soldering process the IHS will float and even out the pressure.

The most solid argument are statistics.

XEON have not shown any issues, ask WCG people, even the older socket grandfathers stones running 24/7 on crap cooling for years. Sandy's are still running fine for most of people using them, so this crack mumbo jumbo is kind of like hangover geek talk(actually it could be also). There are imperfections even for soldering, but not at such scale.

All things considered... using TIM is cheaper... and there is simply not even a discussion, also using a thinner substrate. Problem is... this is a costy HEDT product... it is just unfair even if it works fine at stock, but it is not aimed to do so really unlike mainstream desktop parts... the TIM gains, yes there are some, but now are kind of cultivated like a disease to defend something... in the end yea... it still performs worse and is cheaper for Intel. DIED Soldered CPU? Hello Warranty... need to delid no warranty? A new business niche and warranty killer?
 
EarthDog said:
What is this mention about an air gap all about?
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Well, there's a tiny (0.06mm) gap between the die and the IHS. Don't know what's the situation on more modern CPUs, but at least on Ivy Bridge that was reported in many tech sites.
 
My 6700k delid was optional. On my buddy's 7700k I was shocked to find it wasn't optional at all.

Now, garbage heat transfer on premium CPUs?

This is what happens when accountants are in charge.
 
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