Analyst Firm Susquehanna: "Intel Lost its Manufacturing Leadership"

[Vayra86]

In other news, water is wet...

Oof~

By 10nm++ FinFET from Intel, Samsung will be ramping up 3nm GAA EUV. TSMC's 3nm Fab($20B) won't be up and running at worst till 2022.

Don't believe every roadmap you see. Its easy to predict something, that's why they're called predictions. But between floods, viruses and corporate spying and sabotage, you just know this will never happen. There is no economical reasoning behind it either. Flying fast forward with new nodes every year gives way too little time to recoup expenses. Every node you don't get your moneys' worth out of, is a wasted one essentially.

Even 7nm, I think we will see some bumps in the road for, still.

The bottom line with roadmaps is that you can put 'progress and leadership in X' on top of a powerpoint slide so you can snag some investors and keep your stock afloat.

 

[ShockG]

wat

There's no reason to believe that AMD can't hit 5GHz with Zen 2 on the 7nm process. We don't have any idea what it might or might not do. Though moving to a smaller process resulting in lower clocks seems completely bonkers, at least if it's a simple die shrink with maybe a few tweaks here and there (like Wolfdale was to Conroe). I could see that happening if while moving to a smaller process you also developed a radically different architecture, like the Core 2 Duo was to the Pentium, though late Pentiums and early C2D were both 65nm.

They aren't hitting 5GHz, and won't with AIOs and the like. It's not the node, but a core architectural design decision AMD made, when matching that with the intended process from TSMC.
It's also part of the reason why power draw, scales in an unfavourable way with the current Zen+ CPUs.
Again it's not the pitch, but the chosen process in combination with the architecture.
The focus on just this one value is misguided and of no relevance since 3D-gates / fin-fet manufacturing came around.

Sandy Bridge on a 32nm node could readily do 5.5GHz with air cooling and some even 5.7GHz with just liquid cooling. Years later, even CFL-S CPUs at 14nm cannot reach those frequencies with that sort of cooling, but will go farther with liquid nitrogen and helium than SB ever could.

It's best to wait and see what Zen 2 actually brings forth rather than hoping it'll just hit some random frequency. It's hard to know with so little data and info on the public (our) side.

 

[deu]

LOOK AT ME!View attachment 106331

@deu This isn't WCCFTech.

Although it is feeling a lot more like it by the day ...

-1 well I thought my meme was funny!!

 

[R-T-B]

LOOK AT ME!View attachment 106331

I lol'd.

 

[las]

Yeah, it doesn't and thank God for that.



Nah man it's all about that 5% better gaming performance. That's what is on the whiteboards in boardrooms at Intel

5% .. More like 25-50% in CPU bound gaming. This is why pretty much all go Intel route when using 120-240 Hz monitors.

Gamer segment is a tiny bit of the CPU as whole.

Actually it's not. Gamers are a huge segment of desktop PC's these days. Non-gamers usually go mobile. Ryzen is fine for 60 fps/Hz gaming tho.

7nm seems superior. I wonder what will happen when both AMD (7nm) and Intel(10nm) have CPUs with clocks near the 5Ghz barrier. Are we going to start the Battle of IPC improvement or will the CPUs market stagnate? Would a "simple lithography change" bring IPC gains?

5 GHz is not the limit and I doubt Zen 2 at 7nm will hit 5 GHz. Many run their newer Intel CPU's at more than 5 GHz. 5.2-5.5 GHz is a possibility.
Ryzen at 12nm can barely break 4.2 on average. Some are even stuck at 4.1ish using 2nd gen Ryzen.

 

[Vya Domus]

More like 25-50%

50% ? Absolute bollocks.

 

[las]

50% ? Absolute bollocks.

No. Come again when you have experience with high fps gaming using 120-240 Hz monitors. Ryzen chokes. Some games worse than others. Intel has good performance across all games. Ryzen is hit and miss.

 

[Vya Domus]

No. Come again when you have experience with high fps gaming using 120-240 Hz monitors.

So basically no proof for your ludicrous claim. Your anecdotal evidence means jack.

 

[las]

So basically no proof for your ludicrous claim. Your anecdotal evidence means jack.

Tons of proof all over the Internet. You're simply in denial.
I guess you don't know much about high fps gaming when using FX6300 and a 1080p TV... You're a budget gamer; Ryzen will be fine for you.

 

[Vya Domus]

. You're simply in denial.

And you are in lack of any glimmer of credibility.

 

[las]

And you are in lack of any glimmer of credibility.

Once again, go on YouTube and find high fps tests. You'll see what I mean. It's common knowledge at this point. Intel smokes AMD in CPU bound gaming.

 

[Space Lynx]

I think Ryzen 7nm will be very impressive, keep in mind - infinity fabric it uses directly related to DDR ram, and Ryzen 7nm should be using DDR5 ram, which may indeed be a very big boost, especially since that infinity thing they use is continually being optimized and getting better.