Editorial Steam Desertions Bode Well for Half Life 3 Prospects

[Deleted member 158293]

Always good to have an ace or two up your sleeve.

 

[rtwjunkie]

The first one was amazing at its time. Neat AI plus some brilliant level design. The second one, imho just rode on the first one's laurels.

Great Story throughout. Nearly the perfect model of pacing and level design. Pretty much HL2 advanced beyond HL and set the gaming standard.

For everybody saying cloud saves is a must, good luck with actually picking up the game where you left off when the internet is down. That’s why when given a choice in some games I always will opt for local saves.

 

[erixx]

Honestly, this keeps getting brought up so I'm just going to plop a copypasta every time I see this bigbadsteamisintroublenow circlejerk. I will say I would very much like to see Half Life 3 though.

cloud saves: ? = Needed? (?=can exist elsewhere)
profiles ?
reviews ?
forums ?
Mods ?
Groups ?
Item trading? Items stupidity should be banned!
Sorting?
Sharing account? it's cool, yes
Streaming?
Broadcasting? come on...
Screenshots? pleaseeee
User guides?
Wishlists? Mamma look!

Back in the day, most of above things were done in any of the many Game Fan and Clan Forums, not The Shop Forums...

 

[Captain_Tom]

I remember in 2012 thinking Steam was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but already by 2016 I was wondering why so many still revered it so well.

Face facts people - Origin worked better by 2017. I am not saying it had more features or better prices, but it just WORKED. None of these ridiculous constant 120MB updates and constant crashing.

I mean Steam's interface hasn't really changed.... ever?

 

[cadaveca]

great editorial. I think you may be right on your general stance @btarunr, but I don't think Valve cares that much about things as many might think. Since Valve is a private company, we have no idea if they are working on HL3, or not, though. I myself have been given the idea that What Valve wants to do with HL3 is pretty epic, and like HL2, Gaber isn't going to settle for a second-rate experience... they'll only release HL3 when they can give the experience they really want user to have. A lowering of sales and a lack of front page fanfare is NOT going to entice them to launch a software product... they won't stoop so low to garner sales, because they truly don't have to.

I remember in 2012 thinking Steam was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but already by 2016 I was wondering why so many still revered it so well.

Face facts people - Origin worked better by 2017. I am not saying it had more features or better prices, but it just WORKED. None of these ridiculous constant 120MB updates and constant crashing.

I mean Steam's interface hasn't really changed.... ever?

Uh, no.

I was using EA's Link store before it was even public. I have been using it since before EA ever sold any games at all online. I have almost every EA title in my library because I do pre-alpha testing with the EA storefronts often. You are right, Steam's interface has barely changed, but that said, neither has origin, really. At least on STEAM, I still have all the games I bought in my library, but on Origin, I have had many titles jsut simply disappear becuase EA decided tehy didn't want me to have these *singleplayer* titles (harry potter, SIMs, plus several others)


Neither side is perfect, really is what I'm trying to say.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Steam has been pretty good to me, I only used origin for one game so far. I like seeing final fantasy xv on steam and such games which were exclusive to consoles and now steam is welcoming them, game developers leaving means they are no happy so valve should at least update its pricing to reflect competition.

You are kind of mistaken (or misguided to a lesser extent...) J-RPG games like Final Fantasy & especially the older ones have been starting to appear on steam for a while now, At least 5years. There have been a whole list of Final Fantasy ports on steam and Square Enix have also sold steam keys for these games on their own website. It has more to do with Square Enix relaxing their grip on their IP and allowing it to be ported over to a different platform... Nothing to do with Steam. A lot of people were asking for older and newer FF titles to be ported over and S.E answered the call. It took them a long time but they finally gave in and gave a load of people what they wanted... Even people who had bought all the FF games on the consoles bought them again for the PC... it was a win win situation for SE & Steam was just the platform that could deliver it to the entire world.

Square Enix could have easily made their own launcher easily but decided to go with steam.


With regards to developers leaving, Its difficult to explain. Epic take a smaller cut of the profits but at the same time sales could be bad because people dont like the launcher or want another launcher installed on their PC. Steam has a few hundred million (or billion) users. Epic wont have that many on launch and will take maybe a decade or so to build up the same kind of user numbers so Epic taking a smaller cut of profits does not hold any weight.

Publishers leave because maybe they have enough games in their own catalogue to make making their own launcher a worthwhile risk and investment.

While on the side this practise also opens up for a lot of trash indie games to be sold on Epic games because there currently isnt a way to review or rate games and there are so many 'one-man-in-his-bedroom' asset flippers that exist on steam that call themselves 'real developers' who release 5 games in one day on steam that each took one or two hours to make before paying someone with a hundreds of fake steam accounts to green light their games so it hits the frontpage and gets released. Go watch a youtuber called Jim Sterling and he will show you how much bullshit and the quality of this bullshit that is uploaded onto steam. Some games are uploaded without .exe files so there is no way to play them if you buy the game and guy who made the game doesnt answer emails and will sue you for a few million if you give his game negative reviews on steam and in a youtube video.

Until Epic do away with their launcher being just a store front then there is no way they will grow... EA & Ubisoft grow because they dont allow indie games on their platform. and they have a lot of their own IP thats available on their launcher and nowhere else... Ubisoft have decided to make The Division 2 a ubilauncher exclusive therefore the only way to get the game is through ubilauncher and not steam. That will help ubilauncher grow/thrive to a certain extent.

::EDIT::

My bad - actually The Division 2 will be a Epic launcher exclusive. Epic just payed Ubisoft an boat tonne of money for that exclusivity

 

[bug]

great editorial. I think you may be right on your general stance @btarunr, but I don't think Valve cares that much about things as many might think. Since Valve is a private company, we have no idea if they are working on HL3, or not, though. I myself have been given the idea that What Valve wants to do with HL3 is pretty epic, and like HL2, Gaber isn't going to settle for a second-rate experience... they'll only release HL3 when they can give the experience they really want user to have. A lowering of sales and a lack of front page fanfare is NOT going to entice them to launch a software product... they won't stoop so low to garner sales, because they truly don't have to.

The thing is, the people that brought us the first two HL titles aren't even at Valve anymore. There's no telling what a third installment would look like.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

The thing is, the people that brought us the first two HL titles aren't even at Valve anymore. There's no telling what a third installment would look like.

I mean they could do a bungie and release a RTS or card game version of HL3

Or at worst a mobile version of HL3 made with whatever content made by the original people they have left sitting on a hard drive somewhere.

Do you not have phones??

 

[cadaveca]

The thing is, the people that brought us the first two HL titles aren't even at Valve anymore. There's no telling what a third installment would look like.

I don't see that as an issue. HL2 was pretty epic for what is was really trying to do, behind the scenes, psychologically, when having users face the potential of developing a god complex. Valve literally tried to make you experience that God complex. HL3 will be no different. The people that left won't affect this aspect of what Valve offers with their games at all, IMHO.

I mean they could do a bungie and release a RTS or card game version of HL3

That might actually be far more valid that it may first seem. The games Valve releases are merely a stage for what they are really doing, and that's why they do what they do so well. Many peoplw miss this fact, unfortunately, because its not something that Vavle reps speak about directly, often. But HL2 and Spode brought me to TPU in the first place, so I would love to see some sort of new link up there too.

 

[Captain_Tom]

great editorial. I think you may be right on your general stance @btarunr, but I don't think Valve cares that much about things as many might think. Since Valve is a private company, we have no idea if they are working on HL3, or not, though. I myself have been given the idea that What Valve wants to do with HL3 is pretty epic, and like HL2, Gaber isn't going to settle for a second-rate experience... they'll only release HL3 when they can give the experience they really want user to have. A lowering of sales and a lack of front page fanfare is NOT going to entice them to launch a software product... they won't stoop so low to garner sales, because they truly don't have to.



Uh, no.

I was using EA's Link store before it was even public. I have been using it since before EA ever sold any games at all online. I have almost every EA title in my library because I do pre-alpha testing with the EA storefronts often. You are right, Steam's interface has barely changed, but that said, neither has origin, really. At least on STEAM, I still have all the games I bought in my library, but on Origin, I have had many titles jsut simply disappear becuase EA decided tehy didn't want me to have these *singleplayer* titles (harry potter, SIMs, plus several others)


Neither side is perfect, really is what I'm trying to say.

Idk what this "link store" is. I am talking current origin. It's a pretty bare-bones PC gaming store app, but it is also not so bloody cumbersome. It launches - and there are my games to play.

 

[rtwjunkie]

@FreedomEclipse while I in large part agree with you about the model Ubisoft (and to a lesser extent Origin) has displayed, as well as the cesspool Steam has become, I differ on one point.

While you are correct disparaging the vast majority of Indie games, if you are willing to wad e through them, there are some truly god, even great ones. I have a number of them that are well done and very fun and engaging.

 

[cadaveca]

Idk what this "link store" is. I am talking current origin. It's a pretty bare-bones PC gaming store app, but it is also not so bloody cumbersome. It launches - and there are my games to play.

EA Link was EA's Original game client prior to Origin being launch (which is just the newest version of Link). I've used both platforms since they first began, and have seen them both grow over the years. I am impartial to both.

I think there is plenty of room for improvement for origin, and more than there is for Valve. I agree with you that Steam's interface is old and outdated, but for me, it does offer the same thing you say Origin does.

Now, I can safely say that the way that Origin has developed has been directly due to user feedback, but at the same time, what EA's Origin is trying to do is far different than what Steam is offering. Yeah, it's a similar kind of service, but the grand idea behind it all is quite a different animal. So, with that said, I do expect MORE out of STEAM. Origin just needs to sell me a couple of games, offer me a way to store my digital purchases from EA, and that it does do well for sure, when it doesn't steal my games. I'm sure that there are similar stories for STEAM titles, but generally when that has happened, there has been some sort of reason given, not a title jsut randomly disappearing and there being no notification at all other than the game no longer listed in your library... when something goes missing on steam, the internet erupts! LOL.

 

[phanbuey]

Exclusives in general are terrible. Competition is great, but exclusives, especially such artificial ones such as this are not good for gamers.

If they sold the game on epic for $10 off and steam at full price they would have been praised, but the exclusive deal is why I'm not buying it until it's offered everywhere.

https://www.pcgamer.com/thq-nordic-isnt-ruling-out-more-timed-exclusives-like-metro-exodus/

I hate seeing this becoming the trend.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

@FreedomEclipse while I in large part agree with you about the model Ubisoft (and to a lesser extent Origin) has displayed, as well as the cesspool Steam has become, I differ on one point.

While you are correct disparaging the vast majority of Indie games, if you are willing to wad e through them, there are some truly god, even great ones. I have a number of them that are well done and very fun and engaging.

I never once said or denied that there werent any great indie games on steam. There are, but this has been overtaken by those that flip assets for a quick buck rather than a game with real substance and quality. And these rubbish asset flips greatly outnumber the games that have been made with great effort, time and dedication.

Steam have tried multiple times to fix the issue with green light and crappy asset flips but they have always gone half way, dropped the ball then forgotten about it all together.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I never once said or denied that there werent any great indie games on steam. There are, but this has been overtaken by those that flip assets for a quick buck rather than a game with real substance and quality. And these rubbish asset flips greatly outnumber the games that have been made with great effort, time and dedication.

Steam have tried multiple times to fix the issue with green light and crappy asset flips but they have always gone half way, dropped the ball then forgotten about it all together.

I agree with you. I was just saying that lots of sifting is needed to separate the good from the chaff.

 

[Captain_Tom]

Now, I can safely say that the way that Origin has developed has been directly due to user feedback, but at the same time, what EA's Origin is trying to do is far different than what Steam is offering. Yeah, it's a similar kind of service, but the grand idea behind it all is quite a different animal. So, with that said, I do expect MORE out of STEAM. Origin just needs to sell me a couple of games, offer me a way to store my digital purchases from EA, and that it does do well for sure, when it doesn't steal my games.

That's how I see Origin - Give me games, and make them work without all of the hassle Steam now has.

As for Steam - I would argue they may have been attempting to be "a different animal", but they have completely failed to succeed at anything that isn't just gaming and a community around it (So they haven't succeeded at anything new since Steam's inception). I also agree that a lot of this is me having "higher standards" when it comes to Valve, but so what? - I have higher standards for Valve, and they aren't meeting them.

 

[phanbuey]

That's how I see Origin - Give me games, and make them work without all of the hassle Steam now has.

As for Steam - I would argue they may have been attempting to be "a different animal", but they have completely failed to succeed at anything that isn't just gaming and a community around it (So they haven't succeeded at anything new since Steam's inception). I also agree that a lot of this is me having "higher standards" when it comes to Valve, but so what? - I have higher standards for Valve, and they aren't meeting them.

But at least if you don't like steam you could always find the game elsewhere, especially on giant AAA titles. They might not meet your standards but at least they're not forcing you to use them. Epic Launcher is a Chinese owned software product that has been hacked multiple times. Not sure I really want to be forced to use that to play games. Same thing with origin - the exclusivity is the issue.

If valve really wanted to punch Origin and Epic in the gut, they could release HL3 on every platform, and sell it cheaper on Steam.

 

[Metroid]

You are kind of mistaken (or misguided to a lesser extent...) J-RPG games like Final Fantasy & especially the older ones have been starting to appear on steam for a while now, At least 5years. There have been a whole list of Final Fantasy ports on steam and Square Enix have also sold steam keys for these games on their own website.

I have them all on my steam, my point is, new games that were consoles only like final fantasy are not consoles only anymore, meaning pc is the way forward, there is no reason to buy a console like used to be, now, we need nintendo to join sega on 100% software development.

 

[Space Lynx]

I used Origin for a few years when I was playing ME3 and ME3 Multiplayer but I never really liked it even when they offered free games every now and then.
To me Origin is just a game launcher and not much more. I have made a few friends on there but we never communicated with each other and there are or at least were no way to share screenshots and publish artwork and stuff.
Steam on the other hand is more like Facebook for gamers but better.
I had the chance to use Uplay when I got some free games with purchase of a GPU a few years ago but I chose not to get the free games because back then Uplay sucked even more than Origin.

I don't get why so many people here dislike Steam so much because the platform itself is way better for gamers than any of its competitors. Well maybe the haters are game developers who feel like that Steam has been ripping them off or something

Uplay is actually very nice now. Not as community driven as steam, but it works just fine, very smooth, never crashes, etc. I really like achievements on Uplay because it allows me to unlock in-game items that you can't buy with money, it's pretty fun saving up my Uplay points, I used to hate achievements and never went after them until Uplay did this rewards based system. Kind of cheesy I guess, but it got me hooked so meh.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

I have them all on my steam, my point is, new games that were consoles only like final fantasy are not consoles only anymore, meaning pc is the way forward, there is no reason to buy a console like used to be, now, we need nintendo to join sega on 100% software development.

you are also missing my point again. Part of the time Sony or Microsoft will pay for console exclusives. The games are made for consoles first before being ported over to PC. All those FF titles you see are all ports and we are lucky to get them. PC however is not the way forward because there are a greater majority of gamers that still game on console rather than PC and console will continue to hold more exclusive titles because part of the business is to sell gaming consoles.

Nintendo are in a weird position because they only work on their own I.P and they dont allow their I.P to be used outside of their platforms... However, they have been slowly opening up to the mobile market over the years.

Sega on the other hand are in an entirely different boat. because they dont have or make their own consoles so They develop games for a wide range of platforms and im sure they get paid for having some games made exclusively for a platform.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Ubisoft has indeed spent some good years fixing and polishing their Uplay platform. As @lynx29 pointed out, it is now very enjoyable. I second their achievement system being pretty cool, and the platform is rock solid.

 

[Captain_Tom]

But at least if you don't like steam you could always find the game elsewhere, especially on giant AAA titles. They might not meet your standards but at least they're not forcing you to use them. Epic Launcher is a Chinese owned software product that has been hacked multiple times. Not sure I really want to be forced to use that to play games. Same thing with origin - the exclusivity is the issue.

If valve really wanted to punch Origin and Epic in the gut, they could release HL3 on every platform, and sell it cheaper on Steam.

I mean Valve is sooner or later (sooner for their own good) going to need to do three things:

1) Lower the fee they charge major publishers down to 10% (or less if possible). It needs to happen. They can keep charging Indie's 20-50% since they are basically the only way Indie's will profit (unless a revolutionary game like Minecraft), but they need to accept that no one will publish through them if Valve is taking a cut that's larger than just building your own store. That's how crazy high Valve's cut is - it's cheaper to just make your own servers and store!!!

2) Make sure that in return for that fee, Steam provides the best and most secure gaming servers available; and also the largest reach. People who work with Steam need to know their game cannot run better than what Valve provides them. Otherwise again - they will just make their own store!

3) Make some more bloody good Valve games, and ideally also make Steam OS a real thing. Steam's entire advantage was that everyone had Steam, and everyone needed to download steam first. That's just not that true anymore.

 

[Space Lynx]

3) Make some more bloody good Valve games, and ideally also make Steam OS a real thing. Steam's entire advantage was that everyone had Steam, and everyone needed to download steam first. That's just not that true anymore.

If steam actually managed to bring min, avg, and max fps of vast majority of games within 5-10 fps of windows 10, I would seriously consider retiring from Windows for a solid 3-4 years and working on my backlog of games. I never thought of that until now, but they should really throw some money at SteamOS and go hardcore on it. As long as it can run Firefox so I can pay my bills online that is all I care about, I'm just a gamer, I don't need 99% of windows 10 features, lol

 

[Deleted member 177333]

Will be sad to see some developers bail from Steam - they may lose some sales as a result. As it is now, I don't buy EA games. Don't like EA and I don't like Origin. I greatly prefer Steam - hopefully if any developers are upset with the revenue sharing, they can resolve it with Steam. It's nice having one big store with a platform I really like to be able to go to for everything.

 

[danbert2000]

I think that the push into Steam hardware, like the controller, the Steam Link, the Steam Machines, the Vive, was all borne out of their dominant marketing position. Valve doesn't want to be a game company with a store. They want to be a PC gaming services and hardware company. It's a much more predictable revenue stream than the boom and bust game development paradigm. I don't think pressure from Epic is going to make them go and make games again, or if it does, we won't see anything from the effort for 2+ years. If anything, I could see Valve doubling down on Steam as a PC gaming service and trying to make more features and hardware that integrates into the value proposition of selling your games through Steam.

Especially the move into Linux support with Steam Play or Steam VR, I don't think Epic is going to have an answer to those for a while and it is a slow movement towards Valve trying again with a Steam console. They badly want more lock in, and I don't think a handful of Valve sequels will have the same effect to lock people into using only Steam. If anything, this Epic competition is going to push them to get the hardware lock in models up faster than before.