• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD Zen3 to Leverage 7nm+ EUV For 20% Transistor Density Increase

Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
177 (0.05/day)
It's the main reason Ryzen still sucks for high fps gaming. When CPU becomes the bottleneck, Ryzen chokes and gimps the fps. Even at 4.3 GHz on all cores, which is higher than average. Tested and tried, with 3400/CL14 memory.
What absolute nonsense. Ryzen doesn't "suck" for high FPS gaming. I know that for a fact, having owned a 2700X and a 1080 Ti paired with a 1440p/165Hz monitor until I sold everything recently. What you actually mean is it's sligtly slower than a top end Intel chip clocked at 5GHz. That certainly doesn't equal "sucks" by any means. Ryzen still pushes extremely high framerates and provides a great gaming experience, and rarely held back my 1080 Ti in anything. Only a drooling fanboy would claim that it "sucks" just because you can do slightly better by paying a lot more. Keep justifying that 9900K purchase to yourself, kid.
 

las

Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
1,533 (0.37/day)
System Name Obsolete / Waiting for Zen 5 or Arrow Lake
Processor i9-9900K @ 5.2 GHz @ 1.35v / No AVX Offset
Motherboard AsRock Z390 Taichi
Cooling Custom Water
Memory 32GB G.Skill @ 4000/CL15
Video Card(s) Gainward RTX 4090 Phantom / Undervolt + OC
Storage Samsung 990 Pro 2TB + WD SN850X 1TB + 64TB NAS/Server
Display(s) 27" 1440p IPS @ 280 Hz + 77" QD-OLED @ 144 Hz VRR
Case Fractal Design Meshify C
Audio Device(s) Asus Essence STX / Upgraded Op-Amps
Power Supply Corsair RM1000x / Native 12VHPWR
Mouse Logitech G Pro Wireless Superlight
Keyboard Corsair K60 Pro / MX Low Profile Speed
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
What absolute nonsense. Ryzen doesn't "suck" for high FPS gaming. I know that for a fact, having owned a 2700X and a 1080 Ti paired with a 1440p/165Hz monitor until I sold everything recently. What you actually mean is it's sligtly slower than a top end Intel chip clocked at 5GHz. That certainly doesn't equal "sucks" by any means. Ryzen still pushes extremely high framerates and provides a great gaming experience, and rarely held back my 1080 Ti in anything. Only a drooling fanboy would claim that it "sucks" just because you can do slightly better by paying a lot more. Keep justifying that 9900K purchase to yourself, kid.

Yeah, if slightly means 20-50%.

Calm your tits, kid. Trololol.

My 9900K was free, I don't have to justify anything :laugh:
 

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,163 (4.07/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
I'm guessing the biggest news here is there's not that much room left to improve IPC after Zen2 :(
Cause 7nm was pretty much a given for Zen3 anyway.
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
3,413 (1.07/day)
System Name M3401 notebook
Processor 5600H
Motherboard NA
Memory 16GB
Video Card(s) 3050
Storage 500GB SSD
Display(s) 14" OLED screen of the laptop
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores 3050 scores good 15-20% lower than average, despite ASUS's claims that it has uber cooling.

las

Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
1,533 (0.37/day)
System Name Obsolete / Waiting for Zen 5 or Arrow Lake
Processor i9-9900K @ 5.2 GHz @ 1.35v / No AVX Offset
Motherboard AsRock Z390 Taichi
Cooling Custom Water
Memory 32GB G.Skill @ 4000/CL15
Video Card(s) Gainward RTX 4090 Phantom / Undervolt + OC
Storage Samsung 990 Pro 2TB + WD SN850X 1TB + 64TB NAS/Server
Display(s) 27" 1440p IPS @ 280 Hz + 77" QD-OLED @ 144 Hz VRR
Case Fractal Design Meshify C
Audio Device(s) Asus Essence STX / Upgraded Op-Amps
Power Supply Corsair RM1000x / Native 12VHPWR
Mouse Logitech G Pro Wireless Superlight
Keyboard Corsair K60 Pro / MX Low Profile Speed
Software Windows 10 Pro x64

bug

Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
13,163 (4.07/day)
Processor Intel i5-12600k
Motherboard Asus H670 TUF
Cooling Arctic Freezer 34
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3600 G.Skill Ripjaws V
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 1060 SC
Storage 500GB Samsung 970 EVO, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO, 1TB Crucial MX300 and 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s) Dell U3219Q + HP ZR24w
Case Raijintek Thetis
Audio Device(s) Audioquest Dragonfly Red :D
Power Supply Seasonic 620W M12
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Keyboard G.Skill KM780R
Software Arch Linux + Win10
Do you mean MSI bullshit?
Motherboard makers sell motherboards. I'm pretty sure MSI isn't the only one unhappy with a new generation of CPUs not needing a new motherboard.
Then again, if a new chipset was actually not needed, AMD wouldn't have designed a new one to go with the new CPUs.
 

las

Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
1,533 (0.37/day)
System Name Obsolete / Waiting for Zen 5 or Arrow Lake
Processor i9-9900K @ 5.2 GHz @ 1.35v / No AVX Offset
Motherboard AsRock Z390 Taichi
Cooling Custom Water
Memory 32GB G.Skill @ 4000/CL15
Video Card(s) Gainward RTX 4090 Phantom / Undervolt + OC
Storage Samsung 990 Pro 2TB + WD SN850X 1TB + 64TB NAS/Server
Display(s) 27" 1440p IPS @ 280 Hz + 77" QD-OLED @ 144 Hz VRR
Case Fractal Design Meshify C
Audio Device(s) Asus Essence STX / Upgraded Op-Amps
Power Supply Corsair RM1000x / Native 12VHPWR
Mouse Logitech G Pro Wireless Superlight
Keyboard Corsair K60 Pro / MX Low Profile Speed
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
I welcome this. I would never use a 3-4 year old motherboard with a brand new CPU anyway.
I remember how many issues this resulted in, back in the days with AM3. And lack of features.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,780 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64

Just ignore it, obvious bait is obvious, he always blows everything way out of proportion to make a point that only applies to a niche. Take special note of the pigeon (poop) avatar.

Yeah, if slightly means 20-50%.

Calm your tits, kid. Trololol.

My 9900K was free, I don't have to justify anything :laugh:

See - I hadn't even arrived at page 2 yet but here we are.

Get a life.
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
3,413 (1.07/day)
System Name M3401 notebook
Processor 5600H
Motherboard NA
Memory 16GB
Video Card(s) 3050
Storage 500GB SSD
Display(s) 14" OLED screen of the laptop
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores 3050 scores good 15-20% lower than average, despite ASUS's claims that it has uber cooling.
Joined
Dec 3, 2014
Messages
338 (0.10/day)
Location
Marabá - Pará - Brazil
System Name KarymidoN TitaN
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700X
Motherboard ASUS TUF X570
Cooling Custom Watercooling Loop
Memory 2x Kingston FURY RGB 16gb @ 3200mhz 18-20-20-39
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1070 GAMING X 8GB
Storage Kingston NV2 1TB| 4TB HDD
Display(s) 4X 1080P LG Monitors
Case Thermaltake Core V71
Power Supply Corsair TX 600
Mouse Logitech G300S
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,780 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
this dude doenst have a 9900k he has a God Processor 10k RTX RGB wtf

Probably due to one of his world-class delids that dropped temps by 30C. :toast: Yes, he delids a soldered proc, don't ask.

So sad. Luckily I know liars when I see them.
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
632 (0.35/day)
I kind of expected Zen 2 will already be delayed to use 7nm EUV.
7nm DUV seems like a recipe for a huge letdown. :/
Yup, it'll be funny to read all the butthurt responses from team red fanboys after the best Zen2 chips will still lag way behind 9900k, 9700k and 8700k in gaming (and maybe even 8600k and 7700k lmao) :D
Ah well, just goes to show once again that waiting for anything from AMD is never a good idea :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,475 (1.33/day)
Processor R5 5600X
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX B550-I GAMING
Cooling Alpenföhn Black Ridge
Memory 2*16GB DDR4-2666 VLP @3800
Video Card(s) EVGA Geforce RTX 3080 XC3
Storage 1TB Samsung 970 Pro, 2TB Intel 660p
Display(s) ASUS PG279Q, Eizo EV2736W
Case Dan Cases A4-SFX
Power Supply Corsair SF600
Mouse Corsair Ironclaw Wireless RGB
Keyboard Corsair K60
VR HMD HTC Vive
DUV vs EUV does not necessarily have an effect on performance of the resulting chip. The difference is complexity of design and production as well as the time it takes to produce the chips. All this translates to (a lot of) money.
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
632 (0.35/day)
Not necessarily, but most likely and seeing that Zen has a LOT of ground to cover in single thread performance before Intel launches their 10nm (which they eventually will, despite all the delays), this does not bode well for them at all...
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
5,731 (1.13/day)
Location
West Midlands. UK.
System Name Ryzen Reynolds
Processor Ryzen 1600 - 4.0Ghz 1.415v - SMT disabled
Motherboard mATX Asrock AB350m AM4
Cooling Raijintek Leto Pro
Memory Vulcan T-Force 16GB DDR4 3000 16.18.18 @3200Mhz 14.17.17
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro+ 4GB RX 580 - 1450/2000 BIOS mod 8-)
Storage Seagate B'cuda 1TB/Sandisk 128GB SSD
Display(s) Acer ED242QR 75hz Freesync
Case Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-01
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair VS 550w
Mouse Zalman ZM-M401R
Keyboard Razor Lycosa
Software Windows 10 x64
Benchmark Scores https://www.3dmark.com/spy/6220813
Not necessarily, but most likely and seeing that Zen has a LOT of ground to cover in single thread performance before Intel launches their 10nm (which they eventually will, despite all the delays), this does not bode well for them at all...
Yet another obvious troll who sole purpose was to sign up and trash amd, please tell me more :nutkick:
 

64K

Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
6,104 (1.66/day)
Processor i7 7700k
Motherboard MSI Z270 SLI Plus
Cooling CM Hyper 212 EVO
Memory 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2070 Super
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB and WD Black 4TB
Display(s) Dell 27 inch 1440p 144 Hz
Case Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply EVGA SuperNova 850 W Gold
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Logitech G105
Software Windows 10
Not necessarily, but most likely and seeing that Zen has a LOT of ground to cover in single thread performance before Intel launches their 10nm (which they eventually will, despite all the delays), this does not bode well for them at all...

I don't think Intel will launch their 10nm chips. They have had a myriad of problems with that process but bear in mind that it was really 10nm.
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
632 (0.35/day)
Yet another obvious troll who sole purpose was to sign up and trash amd, please tell me more :nutkick:
No real need as they're doing a terrific job of that themselves; enormously disappointing Radeon 7 launch recently, all (or at least most) of the mantras of AM4 longevity down the drain with 300 chipsets, sub par performance of zen2 (compared to the hype - they might be somewhat decent in absolute terms at least for mid range) all but confirmed... Need I go any longer?
I don't think Intel will launch their 10nm chips. They have had a myriad of problems with that process but bear in mind that it was really 10nm.
Well the other option of course is them going directly to 7nm as well which might take a bit longer but we all know what that spells for Zen2/Zen2+ :eek:
 

SL2

Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Messages
1,767 (0.27/day)
Because AMD had no problem launching mobile 3000-series on current Zen.
This came as no surprise, as ALL 14 nm APU's (2200G, 2400G, 2700U...) should've been part of the 1000 series. (Yes, I know they're different from the Summit Ridge 1000)

Basically, what AMD is trying to tell us is that the xxxx CPU's and the xxxxG/U APU's are not in the same series, they just happen to begin with the same number.
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
5,731 (1.13/day)
Location
West Midlands. UK.
System Name Ryzen Reynolds
Processor Ryzen 1600 - 4.0Ghz 1.415v - SMT disabled
Motherboard mATX Asrock AB350m AM4
Cooling Raijintek Leto Pro
Memory Vulcan T-Force 16GB DDR4 3000 16.18.18 @3200Mhz 14.17.17
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro+ 4GB RX 580 - 1450/2000 BIOS mod 8-)
Storage Seagate B'cuda 1TB/Sandisk 128GB SSD
Display(s) Acer ED242QR 75hz Freesync
Case Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-01
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair VS 550w
Mouse Zalman ZM-M401R
Keyboard Razor Lycosa
Software Windows 10 x64
Benchmark Scores https://www.3dmark.com/spy/6220813
No real need as they're doing a terrific job of that themselves; enormously disappointing Radeon 7 launch recently, all (or at least most) of the mantras of AM4 longevity down the drain with 300 chipsets, sub par performance of zen2 (compared to the hype - they might be somewhat decent in absolute terms at least for mid range) all but confirmed... Need I go any longer?

Well the other option of course is them going directly to 7nm as well which might take a bit longer but we all know what that spells for Zen2/Zen2+ :eek:
Oh you mean by a whopping 7% at 1080p and 3% at 1440p yes, abysmal performance indeed.

Please don't feed the troll ppl
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
563 (0.18/day)
Ryzen still sucks for high fps gaming. When CPU becomes the bottleneck
The CPU doesn't become bottleneck in "high fps gaming". It becomes bottleneck only at low resolutions and games that doesn't scale well and benefit from high core counts, as in old DX gammes and games badly ported from consoles
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Messages
3,595 (1.27/day)
I don't think Intel will launch their 10nm chips.
If Zen 2 is 7nm DUV (also known as N7, the same AMD used for Radeon VII), I doubt Intel really needs 10nm to compete.
They can keep polishing 14nm and focus on their 7nm - to compete with Zen 3 based on TSMC 7nm EUV (N6?) coming next year at best.
This came as no surprise, as ALL 14 nm APU's (2200G, 2400G, 2700U...) should've been part of the 1000 series. (Yes, I know they're different from the Summit Ridge 1000)

Basically, what AMD is trying to tell us is that the xxxx CPU's and the xxxxG/U APU's are not in the same series, they just happen to begin with the same number.
But most marketing materials and AGESA leaks mention Ryzen 3000-series, not Zen 2 or 7nm.
People interpret this as Zen 2, but there's no actual guarantee. X370 motherboards (after update) may as well be compatible just with Ryzen 3000-series based on Zen+ (be it APU or not).
DUV vs EUV does not necessarily have an effect on performance of the resulting chip. The difference is complexity of design and production as well as the time it takes to produce the chips. All this translates to (a lot of) money.
Correct. Which means Zen 2 is sure to be expensive*, while it's unknown at this point how much performance/efficiency gain we could get**.
It does seem like Zen 2 will be very short-lived. Basically, they're launching this only because Intel caught up on core count.
And if Zen 2 turns out to be the last generation for AM4, then the "great upgrade path" will suddenly look a lot less great.

*) so why make <=8C Zen2 at all? Why not refresh Zen+ for this segment and save Zen2 for 12-core and up? These refreshed Zen+ 3000-series would surely work on X370...
**) Radeon VII ;-(
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
563 (0.18/day)
And if Zen 2 turns out to be the last generation for AM4, then the "great upgrade path" will suddenly look a lot less great.
No. Even at 3 generations (Zen, Zen+ and Zen) it would be much greater than what Intel has been doing for almost 8 years, changing chipset every year even when there were no "technical" need for that at all.
Just stop trying to find flaws with everything AMD does and justify everything devlish Intel and it's beaouches (MSI, Asus etc) been doing
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
632 (0.35/day)
If Zen 2 is 7nm DUV (also known as N7, the same AMD used for Radeon VII), I doubt Intel really needs 10nm to compete.
They can keep polishing 14nm and focus on their 7nm - to compete with Zen 3 based on TSMC 7nm EUV (N6?) coming next year at best.

But most marketing materials and AGESA leaks mention Ryzen 3000-series, not Zen 2 or 7nm.
People interpret this as Zen 2, but there's no actual guarantee. X370 motherboards (after update) may as well be compatible just with Ryzen 3000-series based on Zen+ (be it APU or not).

Correct. Which means Zen 2 is sure to be expensive*, while it's unknown at this point how much performance/efficiency gain we could get**.
It does seem like Zen 2 will be very short-lived. Basically, they're launching this only because Intel caught up on core count.
And if Zen 2 turns out to be the last generation for AM4, then the "great upgrade path" will suddenly look a lot less great.

*) so why make <=8C Zen2 at all? Why not refresh Zen+ for this segment and save Zen2 for 12-core and up? These refreshed Zen+ 3000-series would surely work on X370...
**) Radeon VII ;-(

True, Intel only really needs 10nm if their 7nm is 2 or more years away, otherwise 14nm+ will easily carry them over as 7nm DUV from AMD simply won't be on par as so painfully demonstrated by the Laugheon VII (many will hurry to point out that they are two completely different things, but I beg to differ - scaling 14 -> 7 will almost certainly be very similar).
And yeah, if Zen2 in this form (with perhaps 8 cores max too boot) will be the last thing that will work on 400 series chipsets (or even 300 for that matter), then that will only be marginally better than on Intel's platforms and nowhere close to what has been so pompously advertised. :rolleyes:
 
Top