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Core i9-10900K up to 30% Faster than i9-9900K: Intel

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My biggest issue with the 10th gen CPUs for LGA 1200 is, that they don't offer any advantage over the 9th gen in PCI-E lanes or PCI-E version. They have Wifi 6 included, but to use that you have to upgrade your Wifi router at least.
If they would release the 10 core CPU on LGA 1151 that would be ok. But a new platform for 2 more cores?

Come on Intel, you can do better than this.
 
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Not for $400 but I got my 9700k for under $300 and at microcenter you can get the 9700k for less then $329 and the 8700k for under $300.

You can always find a markdown deal and make false comparison vs current non makred down prices on the competition. Right now at Newegg the Ryzen 5 3600X is $160 less than a 9700K, and the 3600 is $205 less. The 8700K costs more than the 9700k at Newegg.

If you are building a system, that ~$200 is the difference between having a RX 5500XT or 1650 Super and having an RTX 2070 or 5700.

Or it will get you a 2TB SSD. Or, it'll get you a 1TB SSD and take you from a 1650 Super to a 1660 Super. And so on and so forth.
 
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I picked up a 9900K for a build last week for $380 from Microcenter, open box. I think at that price it's fair. Building a productivity desktop for my dad to replace his W3680 X58 system. Probably will be the same price as the upcoming i7 but his need for a computer is now.
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My biggest issue with the 10th gen CPUs for LGA 1200 is, that they don't offer any advantage over the 9th gen in PCI-E lanes or PCI-E version. They have Wifi 6 included, but to use that you have to upgrade your Wifi router at least.
If they would release the 10 core CPU on LGA 1151 that would be ok. But a new platform for 2 more cores?

Come on Intel, you can do better than this.

Probably a matter of power delivery, maybe only the top tier of Z390 boards can hypothetically run the 10 core without issue such as Asus Maximus XI Apex, MSI MEG Godlike, Gigabyte Aorus Extreme, etc. New socket's pin increase might be related to the extra power demand.
 
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I picked up a 9900K for a build last week for $380 from Microcenter, open box. I think at that price it's fair.
That's a fair price, that's about $100 off list price.
 
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That's a fair price, that's about $100 off list price.
No way would we buy one at the list price. I waited around for an open box one to appear and sniped it.
 
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My 9900K runs very hot even with a 360 mm AIO. I can't imagine how heat is going to be kept in check as we're talking of 10 cores on an ancient process by today's standards.
 
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With or without AVX2 though?
its just turbo specs, I don't understand why people deal with AVX offsets. IMHO, if the CPU is stable for a certain application, but with the same overclock, fails in another application because of different code, then it is not 100% stable. Just run it at 1 flat frequency to make it simple.

Oh boy, 33% more power usage and 25% more cores... and it ONLY gets 30% better performance??
yea cus intel's pro csgo strats ar to ad mor cors & mor freqs
 
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its just turbo specs, I don't understand why people deal with AVX offsets. IMHO, if the CPU is stable for a certain application, but with the same overclock, fails in another application because of different code, then it is not 100% stable. Just run it at 1 flat frequency to make it simple.
What if i don't run the application where it's not stable?

I have no AVX workloads and thus stability in those is not relevant to me. I would rather have max perf in applications i do use instead of chasing some magical (and lower) frequency that is stable in every scenario.

Ideally i would like to have something like Afterburner does for GPU's - per game OC. Takes more time to finetune but offers better performance for those willing to do some testing.
FYI i have 3800X running at 4.5Ghz allcore OC (1.4v). Yes it gets to 90c in AVX2 stress test but that's irrelevant for me. Does not exceed 75c in games.
 
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I have no AVX workloads and thus stability in those is not relevant to me.
Trouble with that is software has started using AVX/AVX2 without you being aware of it's usage. In other words not every piece of software is going to advertise it utilizes AVX.
 
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My 9900K runs very hot even with a 360 mm AIO. I can't imagine how heat is going to be kept in check as we're talking of 10 cores on an ancient process by today's standards.
Got this 9900K system built today, Z390 Taichi, latest bios, Gskill 32GB 3600C16, Phanteks PHTC14PE, just loaded the defaults, installed 10 OS, ran Prime95 Blend, it ran for 5 minutes and I wasn't seeing temperatures over 72*C, so I walked out to take care of something, left it unattended for another 5 minutes. When I came back, test was 10 minutes in, it was up to 108C and ~245 Watts as reported in HWmonitor! Immediately turned off P95, temps returned to idle 30*C, shut it down for a bit. I am sure the thermal paste is nicely cooked though.

Going to have to dig around in the bios because that seems to be out of spec for the TJMax and TDP Limit. I would have expected it to throttle or shutdown. Probably will undervolt and slightly underclock this system. It also seems to want a fairly high default vcore of 1.32. This computer will be a workstation not a gamer.
 
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Going to have to dig around in the bios because that seems to be out of spec for the TJMax and TDP Limit.
MultiCore Enhancement is turned on would be my guess. Might be worth checking to see if it's on. You have to watch for that when enabling XMP profile.
 
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MultiCore Enhancement is turned on would be my guess. Might be worth checking to see if it's on. You have to watch for that when enabling XMP profile.
It wasn't MCE in this instance which was disabled, but it was the Long and Short Duration Power Limits and the TJ Max set to Auto. Turned these to Long Duration: 100 Watts, Short Duration: 150 Watt, TJ Max 100*C and now it behaves as it should with throttling at high wattage. The CPU is under an aircooler. I will probably try to find a way to get the core volts down a bit more. However, this isn't the thread for this discussion other than to illustrate how damn hot the 9th gen i9 can get! :cool:
 
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Shouldn't Short Duration be a bigger value than Long Duration?
 
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Shouldn't Short Duration be a bigger value than Long Duration?
Yeah I had them reversed when I typed the post, but they are set properly in bios. Also applied a -50mv offset to get the vcore max to 1.280 which is a bit more reasonable.

Edit: changed max turbo bin to 48x, -20 offset, and the CPU performs admirably with a max voltage of 1.184V and temperatures generally not exceeding 70*C in Smallest FFT P95 AVX2. Pretty decent. The 9900K works fine on an aircooler, it just needs to be tamed.
 
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What if i don't run the application where it's not stable?

I have no AVX workloads and thus stability in those is not relevant to me. I would rather have max perf in applications i do use instead of chasing some magical (and lower) frequency that is stable in every scenario.

Ideally i would like to have something like Afterburner does for GPU's - per game OC. Takes more time to finetune but offers better performance for those willing to do some testing.
FYI i have 3800X running at 4.5Ghz allcore OC (1.4v). Yes it gets to 90c in AVX2 stress test but that's irrelevant for me. Does not exceed 75c in games.
As with overclocking, there isn't really a perfect stress test, you have to test for stability based on your kinds of workloads. Also, I would not recommend running a 3800X at 1.4V, NOT BECAUSE OF THE TEMPERATURES, but because you will see serious degradation within a few months. I recommend 1.325V, 1.35V, and 1.375V max for Ryzen 3000 under stock/average air cooling, high end air/average liquid cooling, and high end liquid cooling respectively. 1.4V isn't going to *kill* the chip, but it will *degrade* it, as in, you will have to lower the clock speed if you plan on running 1.4V for a long time. Temperature wise, it looks like you are using a liquid cooler, probably 240mm, I wouldn't go over 1.35V, but you do you.

Got this 9900K system built today, Z390 Taichi, latest bios, Gskill 32GB 3600C16, Phanteks PHTC14PE, just loaded the defaults, installed 10 OS, ran Prime95 Blend, it ran for 5 minutes and I wasn't seeing temperatures over 72*C, so I walked out to take care of something, left it unattended for another 5 minutes. When I came back, test was 10 minutes in, it was up to 108C and ~245 Watts as reported in HWmonitor! Immediately turned off P95, temps returned to idle 30*C, shut it down for a bit. I am sure the thermal paste is nicely cooked though.

Going to have to dig around in the bios because that seems to be out of spec for the TJMax and TDP Limit. I would have expected it to throttle or shutdown. Probably will undervolt and slightly underclock this system. It also seems to want a fairly high default vcore of 1.32. This computer will be a workstation not a gamer.
Fun fact, it has been known for a while that the 9900K takes *a lot* of power. When I say a lot, I mean more than the era of the FX-9590. You almost always need a liquid cooler to run a 9900K overclocked. A typical air cooler just wont cut it anymore.
 
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You almost always need a liquid cooler to run a 9900K overclocked. A typical air cooler just wont cut it anymore.
That's a clear sign that Intel is bumping up against the limits of their process node.
 
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As with overclocking, there isn't really a perfect stress test, you have to test for stability based on your kinds of workloads. Also, I would not recommend running a 3800X at 1.4V, NOT BECAUSE OF THE TEMPERATURES, but because you will see serious degradation within a few months. I recommend 1.325V, 1.35V, and 1.375V max for Ryzen 3000 under stock/average air cooling, high end air/average liquid cooling, and high end liquid cooling respectively. 1.4V isn't going to *kill* the chip, but it will *degrade* it, as in, you will have to lower the clock speed if you plan on running 1.4V for a long time. Temperature wise, it looks like you are using a liquid cooler, probably 240mm, I wouldn't go over 1.35V, but you do you.
I plan on upgrading to Zen 3 later this year. So longevity does not matter to me. And no im using be quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 aircooler.
 

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Maybe Infinity Fabric is better glue than whatever Intel does when more than one die is present on the same substrate? Just speculating on this one. Infinity Fabric is baked in to the core Zen design... even on single CCX chips, it still gets used for the cores to communicate with the separate chipset portion of the processor. Intel puts everything on a single piece of silicon so you don't need an interconnect system... until you make a chip with multiple dies. Their system for this, I'm assuming, is largely inferior to AMD's implementation because until very recently nobody was buying processors with heaps of cores unless they were in the server space, where latency and per thread performance wasn't as important as having a ton of cores. Thanks to AMD, the core wars have now truly begun, as well as looking for the most performance per core we can get... at least outside of the server space. AMD started this war, so they have a leg up at the moment. It's going to be interesting to see what Intel comes up with once they get out of the lake, and it will be equally as interesting to see what AMD has at that time.

Intel is really in a sad state at the moment. Their 10nm issues are truly unfortunate, I'll give them that, but it seems clear to me they got too comfortable with their lead over AMD when I think about how many iterations of Skylake we've seen at this point. The Zen architecture, and the growing list of *lake security flaws have been around for a while now... and so far we've been shown nothing more than more *lake chips. I don't think they had any plans to move on from *lake any time soon...

None of this is so simple as intel is on a downtrend and amd is movin' on up. It has been a good year for amd and intel continues to make strong revenue. Getting into the platforms and products each company offers we are looking at a highly competitive time. That means that it is unclear to most consumers that either amd or intel is best and purchase decisions are made based on the way the consumer expects to use the hardware.

Nobody can predict the future and a new computer often delights in unexpected ways. Hence, most of us are now using our desktop PCs for things we never did on our past PCs. For this reason, I believe any new PC should be purchased to meet the excepted needs and with an open mind about how the computer might succeed in generalized usage, now and out perhaps 3 years into what we imagine to be the future.

One might argue that a new Ryzen has the edge in future usage scenarios because we all expect the future to better utilize high cpu core counts than hardware does today. But is this the future of the PC? If you've been watching Optane develop, then you are aware that future computers may do away with the notion of memory and storage being separate hardware. The future of computing could be that all files are kept in non-volatile memory, always available with no need to ever boot the computer or open a file. That could be a lot better than a huge core count for most users.

There are steps that can be taken to make intel cpus perform better and amd cpus are generally running flat out from the factory. So if you like overclocking, intel might seem more attractive.

Most people do not do massively multi threaded avx instructions in any of their workloads. Video conversion in Handbrake would be an example of a task like that. For these tasks, amd does hold an advantage with higher core counts. But even here, a thorough overclock of cpu and ram on intel can make up a lot of the difference ... i9-9900k really perks up in the hands of an experienced overclocker. Like 40% faster in Handbrake, for example.

Stop fearing there are bad choices out there. This is a time of innovation in desktop computers. Most any new system is going to blow you away with fast transfers between storage devices and snappy response while you do all those tasks that used to take longer on your old PC, Ryzen or Core either one is sweet.

I've an i9-9900k at 5GHz all cores, avx instructions (prime95 small ffts) with low latency ram (c16, 1T command rate) running @ 3866MHz. It is water cooled and all the storage devices are M.2 NVME ssds. It does a lot of video conversion and overclocking reduced the time to convert 20GB of 1080p MKVs to MP4s from 89 minutes to 53 mintues. It's clear evidence that you can increase multi-thread performance on the i9-9900k by 40%. But buying a Ryzen 3950x would be just as good, cost less and take less time.

I like overclocking and would never be happy with a Ryzen. That's me. :)
 
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