GIGABYTE Lists AMD B550 and Intel Z490 Motherboards

[EarthDog]

I don't think it's poor. I think it's intentional.

AMD could have easily made this card work fine on PCIe 3.0. They gave it less RAM than a lower model and went for weird wiring implementation.
They ended up with a card that benefits from being paired with a modern AMD platform.

Intentionally poor choice? If AMD knew about this before hand (they had to, right?), why did they do it is my question? This card is their bottom of the barrel budget offering for Navi. You mean to tell me that people are looking for a 'premium' chipset/board when looking for the cheapest AMD card they can find? You would think they would have actually advertised it as such. But they didn't. Not in the review materials, nothing. It was up to reviewers to 'find out' about it. So again I say, they could have played it off as a benefit! Why they wouldn't who knows.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Sounds pretty nasty then. Motherboards wired for PCIe4 (i.e. expensive), but without PCIe4 support.

Well, from my understanding, the board makers are expecting AMD to release support for PCIe 4.0, but it seems they want to make sure all the board makers have implemented support for it, so there are no issues like with the X470 UEFI updates that enabled PCIe 4.0 on those platforms, but it then turned out some boards weren't stable.
I would say it's highly likely we'll see PCIe 4.0 from the CPU, but it's not guaranteed. I was under the impression it would be a non issue, but there you go.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

The fact that some DIY users managed to run X570 chipsets without a fan proves absolutely nothing.

A chipset should work without a fan also in cramped, poorly vented cases. It's a must if AMD wants to sell it to OEMs.

With enough airflow in a case you can "passively" cool pretty much anything - high-performance rack units being a perfect example.

Do you think the DIYers that did silent x570 conversions only did it in windtunnels? On an open bench, with 0 airflow, the silent cooler was 20-25C cooler then the stock heatsink design was, even with the chipset fan forced on. And that was a homemade cooler with sandwiched thermal paste. A nice piece of milled copper or aluminum will have better thermal transfer, and have an even larger surface area, and these pre made silent heatsinks are already available from frozenCPU.

The chipset, at max, pulls 15-18 watts of power, when being benchmarked by maxing out every single function of the chipset at 100% at the same time for an extended period of time, AKA not typical use case. That is well within the limits of a silent cooler. The heatsinks with fans are abysmal at their job, with tiny fin arrays and tiny surface areas. The fan is totally unecessary.

 

[bug]

Well, from my understanding, the board makers are expecting AMD to release support for PCIe 4.0, but it seems they want to make sure all the board makers have implemented support for it, so there are no issues like with the X470 UEFI updates that enabled PCIe 4.0 on those platforms, but it then turned out some boards weren't stable.
I would say it's highly likely we'll see PCIe 4.0 from the CPU, but it's not guaranteed. I was under the impression it would be a non issue, but there you go.

Wait a second, you meant the mobos are wired to offer PCIe4 from the CPU only? Because that would make more sense, but it's not what I understood from your initial post.

 

[notb]

Intentionally poor choice? If AMD knew about this before hand (they had to, right?), why did they do it is my question?

Intentionally profitable choice. A choice that may make people buy Ryzen 3000-series not only over Intel alternatives, but also over heavily discounted Zen+ CPUs.
Think about OEMs as well.

This card is their bottom of the barrel budget offering for Navi.

5600XT is a mid-range gaming card. It's the best choice to "promote" PCIe 4.0.

5700XT is the top gaming offering - it's often used (and reviewed!) on Intel platforms and on pre-Zen2 AMD ones, so eroding performance would make less sense.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Wait a second, you meant the mobos are wired to offer PCIe4 from the CPU only? Because that would make more sense, but it's not what I understood from your initial post.

Yes, from the CPU only, but even so, it's currently not working at PCIe 4.0 speeds.

 

[Ruru]

I don't mind if those have a chipset fan, my PC isn't dead silent anyway. A semi-passive fan would be great.

 

[bug]

Yes, from the CPU only, but even so, it's currently not working at PCIe 4.0 speeds.

Got it now, thanks.
Having PCIe4 between the CPU and chipset would allow several SSDs to work at top speed at the same time. Having PCIe4 from the CPU is much less useful today, I'm not worried about that.

Actually, I'm not worried at all, seeing that I can't buy a B550 board no matter what.

 

[TheDeeGee]

Let's hope the B550 boards don't have a 1990s 40MM Fan.

 

[bug]

Let's hope the B550 boards don't have a 1990s 40MM Fan.

@TheLostSwede just ruled out PCIe4 from the chipset. That means no fan required

 

[Ruru]

Also, I doubt that those would be those noisy and whining fans like back in the day. Or are the fans on X570 boards like that?

I remember those ~7000rpm ones from NForce 4 boards..

 

[EarthDog]

Intentionally profitable choice. A choice that may make people buy Ryzen 3000-series not only over Intel alternatives, but also over heavily discounted Zen+ CPUs.
Think about OEMs as well.

5600XT is a mid-range gaming card. It's the best choice to "promote" PCIe 4.0.

5700XT is the top gaming offering - it's often used (and reviewed!) on Intel platforms and on pre-Zen2 AMD ones, so eroding performance would make less sense.

Again, why did they HIDE that fact when they could have taken it and ran?!!!!! Why, OEMs or regular consumers would we be looking for a higher priced board when looking for the cheapest new AMD GPU? That is counter intuitive.

The only card this effects is the 5500 XT 4GB.......their bottom of the barrel budget card.

Anyway, I digress, a bit OT.

Also, I doubt that those would be those noisy and whining fans like back in the day. Or are the fans on X570 boards like that?

I remember those ~7000rpm ones from NForce 4 boards..

The vast majority are fine, especially since BIOS updates from some allowing control/finer control.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Also, I doubt that those would be those noisy and whining fans like back in the day. Or are the fans on X570 boards like that?

I remember those ~7000rpm ones from NForce 4 boards..

Many of the tiny ~40mm fans were also perfectly acceptable when new in the 90s and early 2000s. After a year or two, they became unbearable. It's like people have forgotten why we stopped using those things, and moved to significantly larger silent heatsinks instead. Has everyone just forgotten the massive industry that companies built around silent chipset cooling, and the lengths people would go to to get rid of chipset fans?

 

[Ruru]

Many of the tiny ~40mm fans were also perfectly acceptable when new in the 90s and early 2000s. After a year or two, they became unbearable. It's like people have forgotten why we stopped using those things, and moved to significantly larger silent heatsinks instead. Has everyone just forgotten the massive industry that companies built around silent chipset cooling, and the lengths people would go to to get rid of chipset fans?

Well, a typical PC was hella noisy back then so many didn't mind about those that much. I remember replacing all those noisy chipset coolers with a Zalman passive heatsink.

 

[bug]

Also, I doubt that those would be those noisy and whining fans like back in the day. Or are the fans on X570 boards like that?

I remember those ~7000rpm ones from NForce 4 boards..

Almost no fan is whiny when new. But all fans need cleaning.
While an extra fan is not the worst thing that can happen to a mobo, I can understand why some people would rather pass. In my case, I could live with the high cost of a decent X570 boards. And I could also live with an extra fan. But I decided I will not put up with both. So you see, ymmv.

 

[Ruru]

Almost no fan is whiny when new. But all fans need cleaning.

What I mean is that they usually used about the cheapest possible fans back then.. and cheap & high quality (=silent) doesn't usually go by together.

 

[Tigerfox]

Somehow, you end up as the clueless one, because nobody was questioning PCIe4 from the CPU (in part because that has nothing to do with the chipset, but rather with the motherboard wiring). We were talking about whether or not the chipset will get the same treatment. And that seems doubtful both because of cost and because it would make the chipset indistinguishable from X570.

Then I didn't mean you in particular. There were more than a few here who proposed AMD would offer only Gen3 in the whole B550-Plattform, not the chipset only. I don't think the Chipset itself will support Gen4 but even if, it wouldn't be indistinguishable from X570, becauese chipsets have been distinguished more by the number of lanes and ports then by the generation since forever, just like AMD 300/400-series an Intel 100/200/300-series before. B550 could just be limited to 6xSATA, 2-4xUSB3.1 and 8xPCIe4.0 like an updatet X470, and this is what I expect, just not with Gen4, but Gen3.

Do you have proof of this? Maybe you work for AMD? Right now, I can tell you this much, AMD has not decided if B550 will support PCIe 4.0 or not as of today.
We're all making assumptions here, but the matter of fact is, this is up to AMD. Maybe they decide last minute that they want to differentiate their platforms differently than what we're expecting.
The boards are being designed to support PCIe 4.0, but right now, there is no AGESA/UEFI support on B550 for PCIe 4.0. I was quite surprised when I was told this was the case. And my source is rock solid in this case.

BS. I don't need to prove anything, because we're not in a scientific debate but are guessing on what's coming according to rumours. I just stated that it would be completely illogical for B550-Boards not to have PCIe4.0 on the Slots connected to CPU, since even the 400-Boards had it unofficially for a short time. It would be poor if completely new boards wouldn't be specified to support this.

And even more BS is your idea of AMD not having decided yet. If the Board's designs are finished and even the final product names are out in the open, such a major decision would have to be decided long ago. It is not something you can change on a whim via BIOS-Update like the clockrates of 5600XT. The Boards have to be designed to support PCIe4.0. AMD could only lock this feature via BIOS, which would be a big bummer and would make B550 totally useless compared to Intel and even AMDs own X470.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Also, I doubt that those would be those noisy and whining fans like back in the day. Or are the fans on X570 boards like that?

I remember those ~7000rpm ones from NForce 4 boards..

Never heard mine.

BS. I don't need to prove anything, because we're not in a scientific debate but are guessing on what's coming according to rumours. I just stated that it would be completely illogical for B550-Boards not to have PCIe4.0 on the Slots connected to CPU, since even the 400-Boards had it unofficially for a short time. It would be poor if completely new boards wouldn't be specified to support this.

And even more BS is your idea of AMD not having decided yet. If the Board's designs are finished and even the final product names are out in the open, such a major decision would have to be decided long ago. It is not something you can change on a whim via BIOS-Update like the clockrates of 5600XT. The Boards have to be designed to support PCIe4.0. AMD could only lock this feature via BIOS, which would be a big bummer and would make B550 totally useless compared to Intel and even AMDs own X470.

I'm not guessing any more, as I have friends that work at the various motherboard makers here in Taiwan. It's not BS, it is what it is right now. Why would I make this up? Not for the fame, that's for sure. But hey, you don't know me, so that's ok. Let's just say that I've written for a fair few publications over the years and I live and work in the tech industry in Taiwan, so I might have some inside information at times... Also, there's nothing scientific about this, technical maybe...

If you'd read my post, you would've seen that they haven't decided yet, due to the fact that they haven't seen the final boards and made sure they pass the stringent requirements for PCIe 4.0. This is why they decided against it on X470, as those board designs couldn't meet the spec. So if all the board makers have done a good job with their B550 boards, it'll most likely have PCIe 4.0 support. If not, then I guess we'll see.

 

[Ruru]

Never heard mine.

I didn't own one, but I remember every I knew, complaining about the noise. Last time I had a motherboard with a chipset fan, it was MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum (NF3 Ultra) and oh boy it was horrible.

 

[TheLostSwede]

I didn't own one, but I remember every I knew, complaining about the noise. Last time I had a motherboard with a chipset fan, it was MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum (NF3 Ultra) and oh boy it was horrible.

Oh, I've had some terrible ones over the years too. Worst was an otherwise really nice board from Chaintech. For some mad reason, they added a 30mm fan to help cool the VRM with fresh air through the I/O shield... It was fine, until it wasn't and started making a high-pitch screeching noise...
Here we go, even found a picture.

 

[notb]

Almost no fan is whiny when new. But all fans need cleaning.

And that's just half of the problem. Necessity of adding a fan makes it much harder to design a small mobo. Even mITX was a challenge and many OEMs make even smaller custom designs.

Why, OEMs or regular consumers would we be looking for a higher priced board when looking for the cheapest new AMD GPU? That is counter intuitive.

Not every DIY PC owner focuses on gaming. Not everyone is going for a perfect balance between CPU and GPU.

Many people choose a cheap GPU for casual gaming (5500XT being a perfect example) and spend more on parts providing everyday performance (CPU) or features (mobo).

The only card this effects is the 5500 XT 4GB.......their bottom of the barrel budget card.

Hmm...
@TheinsanegamerN posted a graph showing that 5600XT is also affected. Maybe he could provide the source.

The vast majority are fine, especially since BIOS updates from some allowing control/finer control.

Control over chipset fan? That's enthusiasts' domain. And the chipset designed specifically for them is X570.
Sure, they may also want a B550 to save some money. But that's a mainstream chipset and it must primarily work in business PCs, in off-the-shelf desktops for laymen etc. (of course if AMD is interested in these markets).

You can't defend a mainstream product with an argument that it can be made better (usable) by changing settings in BIOS (or flashing BIOS, delidding, replacing thermal pads and so on ).

 

[EarthDog]

Not every DIY PC owner focuses on gaming. Not everyone is going for a perfect balance between CPU and GPU.

Balance? Talking about price points my man. Premium chipset with entry-level card. The difference between the 'same' X570 and X470 boards can be the difference between the next GPU or CPU up - depending on their uses. So, yes, it can be quite counter intuitive.

5600XT is x16 wired. That bandwidth shouldn't make a difference unless it goes past 8GB... but the real issue is just how much running x8 on the 5500 XT with its 4GB was such a poor choice considering the difference (and missed opportunity for AMD to say buy X570 - get moar perf!).

You can't defend a mainstream product with an argument that it can be made better (usable) by changing settings in BIOS (or flashing BIOS, delidding, replacing thermal pads and so on ).

WTF BBQ? An enthusiast's domain? Flashing a BIOS? Have you seen just how many damn potatos post at this place saying they borked their GPU BIOS (which is more difficult than flashing a mobo bios in many cases)? If they were enthusiasts, they'd have half a clue. That aside, BIOS updates that help with the fan, most did so without user influence. Meaning, default the fan is now spinning a lot slower. Many also gave options to control it as well. Additionally, before the BIOS updates, these were not an issue on most boards in the first place. But the always vocal unadorned bitched about it..................

 

[Tigerfox]

I'm not guessing any more, as I have friends that work at the various motherboard makers here in Taiwan. It's not BS, it is what it is right now. Why would I make this up? Not for the fame, that's for sure. But hey, you don't know me, so that's ok. Let's just say that I've written for a fair few publications over the years and I live and work in the tech industry in Taiwan, so I might have some inside information at times... Also, there's nothing scientific about this, technical maybe...

If you'd read my post, you would've seen that they haven't decided yet, due to the fact that they haven't seen the final boards and made sure they pass the stringent requirements for PCIe 4.0. This is why they decided against it on X470, as those board designs couldn't meet the spec. So if all the board makers have done a good job with their B550 boards, it'll most likely have PCIe 4.0 support. If not, then I guess we'll see.

Oh if you knew how often I've heard this, not only with IT, but with (german) car brands aswell. It's always someone who knows someone working in the industry. But they can never state names because of secrecy etc.

I just can't imagine that it works this way, AMD waiting for the OEMs to try to pass the requirements and then deciding on a feature, like: "Oh, nice try everyone, thank you for your efforts, but that's not enough, we can't risk that, so pless sell your near-Gen4-supporting-and-thus-costly-boards only with Gen3 and for a lower price.
That may have been the case with older AM4-boards were Gen4 wasn't planned and they weren't even sure if they could fit Zen2 onto the plattform (on TR4 they decided against it). But on a new Chipset, AMD has to plan beforehand what features it is going to have.

Only two explanations I can imagine. One, PCIe4.0 for the chipset was planned but proofed to costly to reliably work, so AMD decided against it later on an forbids OEMs to support it on B550, like with the older boards. But then B550 would bring to little benefit over X470 to justifiy such a long wait.
Two, PCIe4.0 was planned only for when Intel would bring it on S1200 and will be disabled when Intel really doesn't support it because of problems, like recent (wobly) rumours suggest. Like when AMD waited with the 5600XT, if Nvidia would decrease the price of 2060. But that, too, would mean OEMs had to develop costly Gen4-supporting Boards, even successfully in this scenario, only to not use it.


I stay with my previous opinion, B550 itself will probably only support Gen3, while the Boards will support Gen4 on CPU-Lanes. Only reason against the latter would be if it would make the boards to costly because of electric requirements.

 

[gamefoo21]

My prediction is completely tied to the 4000 series APUs.

If the desktop ones have PCIe 4, you'll see the CPU controlled slots running 4.0 mode and the chipset will be PCIe 3.0. Like the 400 series is 3.0 on the CPU but the chipset is only running PCIe 2.0 speeds.

If the APUs are 3.0 only, the entire board will be 3.0.

X570 is a very expensive chipset, B550 will be cheaper and it will be sacrifice PCIe 4.0.

 

[Tigerfox]

Dude, PCIe4.0 is already confirmed for Renoir APU...

Technically, there is nothing against the boards supporting Gen4 while the APUs only support Gen3. But I see what you are getting at, B-Series is more oriented to APU-Users then X570, so there will be less users missing Gen4.
The problem is, B-series is highly favorited even by Gamers, because while OCing works there too, unlike with Intel, and is useless anyway, their features are enough for most people. B450+Ryzen 3000 is the most recomended combo atm. So B550 would fit nicely there.