Kyle from HardOCP on the Future of the Graphics Card Industry and Hardware Reviewers

[bug]

I used to enjoy reading the detail in an [H] review. I like your reviews for the same reason. The only thing better than a ton of graphs is two tons of graphs.

On the editorial itself, I think everyone is missing the irony: Kyle wanted to tell everyone that videos are the future of reviews, so he wrote an essay to do it.

As for MSRP... it's largely meaningless in a time of short supply, but I think it will come back when supply catches up with demand. MSRP is a single number that indicates how "good" a manufacturer thinks a part is; as such, it promotes competition in a normal market. You can't have a price/performance metric without a standard reference price.

Slight correction: MSRP is a measure of how good a product is, if there's competition. Otherwise it's just the manufacturer telling the retailer: here's how much we invested making this, plus what we think is your fair margin.
It's good to have it around for reference, but if prices keep staying at crazy level, MSRP will find a way of becoming irrelevant.

 

[Fourstaff]

I think he has good points. MSRP no longer makes sense in today's environment where supply far outstrips demand. Day 1 review launches are also made irrelevant with the healthy demand we are seeing right now. Reviewing any gadgets have moved on from writing to video format, even if the base content (and reviewing process) remains the same. Some reviewers will be more rigourous than others, others will be counting the number of LED lights in the card and no more. Most people would prefer to watch/listen to the reviews as opposed to reading.

Finally, for a lot of people complaining about price increases, we are finally witnessing the first big inflation in decades (since 1980s?), unless you are in your 50s you will not experienced it before. Of course it will be super frustrating and confusing, with the cost of everything going up faster than wages.

 

[ppn]

Msrp is irrelevant, and so what. It shows how Nvidia envisioned the 80 card performance placement compared to 70 series for example. Sometimes 80 is the better value. If reviews include the price performance, the current market asking price, reviews do the job just fine. if they can be updating that price and the graphs in real time, the better.
Techtubers are obsolete already. They have nothing else to teach me, besides sea sickening b rolls. Pretty but nauseating. All I care about is the builds, as many as versatile, quickly and be done with it. Just give me the 3d view so i can get close and personal, remove the blabbing influencers and I'm in.

 

[Ferrum Master]

So let me get this straight.... Your inability parse the content and determine whats good and whats garbage is the forms problem? Thats quite the stance you got there.

Youtube, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok are all just different forms of media, some of it is good some of it is bad, same as newspaper, magazines, books, papyrus, stone tablets. People consume information differently, if you don't care for particular platform don't use it but don't complain about new forms of media or ways to communicate that you don't get or simply don't like, thats pointless.

You fail to grasp the obvious difference in between here and those other mediums. And it is community that works as information auditor
The writer knows he will get spanked if he ventures into BS teritorry here.

And I will complain. It is my right to do so. Your shown examples are bad taste, lacking moderation and mostly are propoganda tools for the sheep. Maybe add pornhub also as news site too... you know, educational features.

 

[Aleksandar_038]

Most unfortunately, Kyle is spot on down to last word.

I would like that he is wrong, but it is actually so obvious - only reason why is not even more obvious is our own personal preferences that keeps us from seeing it clearly.

 

[Icon Charlie]

You fail to grasp the obvious difference in between here and those other mediums. And it is community that works as information auditor
The writer knows he will get spanked if he ventures into BS teritorry here.

And I will complain. It is my right to do so. Your shown examples are bad taste, lacking moderation and mostly are propoganda tools for the sheep. Maybe add pornhub also as news site too... you know, educational features.

Yea I'm going to have to agree with you on this. The reason I'm in here is I'm looking for honest information is that overall is helpful for my needs.
I go back to the Commander Taco days of Ars Technica (remember I stated that I was a technology reporter back then, those were good times) and have been building rigs/tech equipment longer than LTT been born. The stuff on the sites you mentioned are overall just useless clickbait for influencers to make money.

INHO All credibility was lost from all of the major video tech sites when they omitted valuable information about the 3000 series of video cards. Adored TV, was the only one that got it right. The rest are in my eyes, completely worthless. And because of Adored TV's truthfulness of that subject matter, he was completely canceled by the lemmings/followers of those same people/apologists/influencers.

I can not trust anyone from Youtube. I can not trust their subject matter because of them being in bed with the corporations that they are review product for.
I have to verify to sites like this so I can get the right AND honest information and opinion.

And there are not many good sites like this left.

 

[Ferrum Master]

I can not trust anyone from Youtube.

Sure you cannot. Like any other platform that actually has been weaponized as disinformation tool by Russians&Co and US owner companies cannot do anything about it. Basing on that the platforms will change and Kyle didn't take that argument into it. Meta already has changed their coat to cover up their arses. There are paid people leaving comments from desired party let it be propaganda, but same goes for HW reviews and many are just paid PR Stuns with even some paid trolls posting in comments about it.

Honest information and community is the distinctive factor that should be the drive force that keeps the site alive. It would be great that this place would have more HW maker officials to ensure feedback on their products and RMA support. Reddit sometimes has some miracles like that. There are still some forums with specialists you never will find anywhere let it be car repair or audio tech.

Also it sometimes feels, like I live with different people. Like I have my collogues now around, friends etc... only like few of them actually enjoy watching review videos with sound on loud, others are really skeptic because of lack of time, and also treat online video platforms as immature rubbish with a lot of false and biased information, even cracking jokes about it. I guess the kind of people who spend most of their day on 9gag and YT find it as a natural evolution. It won't really happen.

I have really rare few people on YT that I seldom watch, but those are nothing of our known tech divas.

 

[Kapone33]

Nicehash is the reason that Crypto is not going anywhere if ETH goes to POS some other coin(s) will take it's place. The other thing I am going to say is that building and programming a mining rig takes about 15 minutes on Hive OS. There are faster GPUs coming down the pipe and both AMD and Nvidia are looking to cash in on the market. Whether some of us like it or not Crypto is the currency of the Metaverse.

 

[dalekdukesboy]

I absolutely hate watching videos - I hate listening to people talk. I'd much rather read what's on a screen. I hope things don't forever transition to whiny, snot nosed pukes that love listening to their own voice.....

Ick....just f'ing gross.

This! I bristle and snarl with contempt at the very thought of "influencers"

Nicehash is the reason that Crypto is not going anywhere if ETH goes to POS some other coin(s) will take it's place. The other thing I am going to say is that building and programming a mining rig takes about 15 minutes on Hive OS. There are faster GPUs coming down the pipe and both AMD and Nvidia are looking to cash in on the market. Whether some of us like it or not Crypto is the currency of the Metaverse.

Is this Mark Zuckerburg incognito?

Most unfortunately, Kyle is spot on down to last word.

I would like that he is wrong, but it is actually so obvious - only reason why is not even more obvious is our own personal preferences that keeps us from seeing it clearly.

Don't like what you're saying for obvious reasons... I love this site... But part of me fears you're conclusion.

 

[Steevo]

I based a lot of recent hardware purchases off reviews, sure MSRP is meaningless and that is partially the fault of AMD and Nvidia. They could have done better at managing their products, moving forward they should be working towards variable pricing with AIBs based on market pricing VS cost to discourage price gouging, they could use the extra profit to push the products to the intended market. Free games, free gear, developer support etc….

I’m not using any Tube site to determine hardware purchases, and don’t use Snapchat or other instatok sites. Maybe younger people do.

 

[bug]

I based a lot of recent hardware purchases off reviews, sure MSRP is meaningless and that is partially the fault of AMD and Nvidia. They could have done better at managing their products, moving forward they should be working towards variable pricing with AIBs based on market pricing VS cost to discourage price gouging, they could use the extra profit to push the products to the intended market. Free games, free gear, developer support etc….

I’m not using any Tube site to determine hardware purchases, and don’t use Snapchat or other instatok sites. Maybe younger people do.

Since AMD or Nvidia aren't to blame for current pricing (they can't control who AIBs sell to), they can't be part of the solution either.

 

[Operandi]

You fail to grasp the obvious difference in between here and those other mediums. And it is community that works as information auditor
The writer knows he will get spanked if he ventures into BS teritorry here.

And I will complain. It is my right to do so. Your shown examples are bad taste, lacking moderation and mostly are propoganda tools for the sheep. Maybe add pornhub also as news site too... you know, educational features.

The obvious differences are the form the media takes, thats it. Different forms of media serve different needs and/or audiences, and you can only draw comparisons so far. Even if you take a site like this and compare it to GamersNexus or Hardware Unboxed both of whom do highly indepth technical work that is on par with their long form written peers you consume that information differently due to its form.

YouTube channels, podcasts, magazines or whatever form of media you want to talk about are "audited" the same way as "here" by their audience and that is exactly the same as any other kind of media. There isn't anything special going on here (sites like this) aside from the fact that it caters to a more indpeth technical slice of the community which has a value of its own but that equally dosn't devalue what other forms of media provide. You don't have to like them but complaining about them is pointless unless you just want to hear affirmation of like minded people but thats just a narrow minded cynical way to view the world in my opinion.

 

[Ferrum Master]

The obvious differences are the form the media takes, thats it. Different forms of media serve different needs and/or audiences, and you can only draw comparisons so far. Even if you take a site like this and compare it to GamersNexus or Hardware Unboxed both of whom do highly indepth technical work that is on par with their long form written peers you consume that information differently due to its form.

YouTube channels, podcasts, magazines or whatever form of media you want to talk about are "audited" the same way as "here" by their audience and that is exactly the same as any other kind of media. There isn't anything special going on here (sites like this) aside from the fact that it caters to a more indpeth technical slice of the community which has a value of its own but that equally dosn't devalue what other forms of media provide. You don't have to like them but complaining about them is pointless unless you just want to hear affirmation of like minded people but thats just a narrow minded cynical way to view the world in my opinion.

Narrow and cynical seems your second try to offend and deny the obvious that exactly your mentioned platforms fail at moderation at such scale that it has become anything but not a serious source of information, those are toys.

 

[Operandi]

Narrow and cynical seems your second try to offend and deny the obvious that exactly your mentioned platforms fail at moderation at such scale that it has become anything but not a serious source of information, those are toys.

What are you even talking about? You can get "serious" highly technical content on just about any platform on any subject you want. Because YouTube (or insert other platform here) has a lot of fluffy edutaiment dosn't prove anything other than the fact you don't know how to use those platforms or just don't like them. Moderation happens at the community and peer level with those platforms the same as any other. It dosn't make YouTube a "toy" anymore than the Verge makes long form tech journalism a "toy". You can draw the same parallels with all forms of new media in all industries and subject matters, it's not just isolated to this industry or community. Not serious enough for you? don't use them then, complaining that they exist and there is a shift in the audience is literally pointless.

 

[Ferrum Master]

What are you even talking about? You can get "serious" highly technical content on just about any platform on any subject you want. Because YouTube (or insert other platform here) has a lot of fluffy edutaiment dosn't prove anything other than the fact you don't know how to use those platforms or just don't like them. Moderation happens at the community and peer level with those platforms the same as any other. It dosn't make YouTube a "toy" anymore than the Verge makes long form tech journalism a "toy". You can draw the same parallels with all forms of new media in all industries and subject matters, it's not just isolated to this industry or community. Not serious enough for you? don't use them then, complaining that they exist and there is a shift in the audience is literally pointless.

Have you finished your own personal swan song? Highly technical? Anything highly technical is paid content and under NDA. Do you realize that that is still a leisure channel... a toy. Most taxpayer people don't have time for it.

It will have heavy regulations soon any of those platforms due to reasons I mentioned earlier, as the laundry money will shift the platform will change.

 

[MarsM4N]

I feel like there is a generational thing going on here...

Youtube (video) and other social media is just another form of media, it serves a different function than long form written content. It's easier for the consumer to take in the information and it allows the content creator to connect with their audience on more personal level. A lot of it is cringe inducing garbage but a lot of its quite good, just depends on the source.


Unless you are intimately familiar with the issue Googling (searching) should always be your first course of action. The internet is just a repository of information, its what you do with that information that counts.

Exactly. There is a ocean of info media out there, be it written, video or audio, it's your choice what you pick.
And it's not only about tech/gaming reviews, just look at news outlets. When looking at "trending" content (TikTok, Youtube, Instagram, Movies, Music, etc.) you realize there are a lot of superficial dumbnuts out there. But you don't have to waste your precious life time with it like they do. Digging through all the crap is exhausting, but there is still gold out there.

For gaming & tech media there is a natural evolution based on the media capabilities. First we relied on printed gaming & tech magazines, which most had to close, reduce their publication cycles and replace reviews for article content like "History of ... Franchise" in the last decade due to free online reviews & of course unfinished day one patch games. And Youtube gave them the rest. And not to forget the impact of AddBlocker. But that's IMO on them, they really pushed it too far with add spam & popups.

Nowadays it's more about who you can trust (Conflict of Interest), who brings the facts out without dancing too long around the cake & who has charisma. Written reviews are good for numbers, charts and comparison with other products, but rendered product images can't compete with a video review and hands on tests. For some products there are just so many aspects you can transport in a video way better than in a written review, here's a good example:

And when it comes to games, I don't read any written reviews anymore. The Battlefield 2042 Critic Reviews was an eye opener for many, a lot of review sites became nothing more than sponsored propaganda outlets. Same goes for loads of sponsored Youtube Gaming "Influencers". Best game impressions are now on TwitchTV. No edits, unfiltered bugs, hacks & game crashes.

Another big bang was GamerGate & how the feminists, mainstream media & clickbait Youtubers spun the whole thing into something it was not, a woman & woke crusade. A real eye opener how corrupt & phoney the gaming industry and the mainstream/online media really is. If you not know what I am talking about, watch the following clip, just pure gold: Internet Aristocrat - Quinnspiracy Theory

You really have to use your brain & learn who's trustworthy. Just follow the money.

 

[dirtyferret]

It seems betting on stupid is THE surefire way to make money.

It never stopped being the surefire way

 

[Operandi]

Have you finished your own personal swan song? Highly technical? Anything highly technical is paid content and under NDA. Do you realize that that is still a leisure channel... a toy. Most taxpayer people don't have time for it.

Swan song? I'm not the one that can't come to terms with the fact that the media landscape is ever changing evolving thing. Meanwhile your baseless accusations and conspiracy theories against entire platforms and forms of media?, yeah I got nothing for that.

*edit*
Speaking of leisure do you realize this is forum from web site that primarily reviews gaming hardware? Does it get any more leisurely than that?

It will have heavy regulations soon any of those platforms due to reasons I mentioned earlier, as the laundry money will shift the platform will change.

...... what?

 

[Steevo]

Since AMD or Nvidia aren't to blame for current pricing (they can't control who AIBs sell to), they can't be part of the solution either.

I wouldn't blame them and in fact as stated would encourage them the sell the chips at 50% higher price and include games/merch/funding to indie studios or developers in exchange.

It will either crater the GPU market and we gamers win, or it will cause the scalpers to lose out when they can't transfer the goodies and still have to pay for them.

It's the closest to the nuclear option of forcing single card sales to end users directly and account verification, which as much as I may hate it may be the next best option for us all.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Swan song? I'm not the one that can't come to terms with the fact that the media landscape is ever changing evolving thing. Meanwhile your baseless accusations and conspiracy theories against entire platforms and forms of media?, yeah I got nothing for that.

Focusing on platforms here, I don't think "conspiracy theory" is a applicable term. It's almost universally understood that content platforms, particularly in the "social" category, rely on attention and engagement. To keep that attention, they must present the user with content they'll continue to engage with. Creators on that platform, at least if they want enough impressions to earn income from the platform, need to produce content that meshes with that model. What this prescribes is content that is both easily digestible and compelling. Short, entertaining elements are the best way to do this, ideally centered around a charismatic personality/performer. Sticking with tech stuff and YouTube, let's compare LTT with Aris M.'s channel, Hardware Busters. Both have been around since 2008, but LTT gets more views on one video than HB has in total. Granted, LTT has an advantage as it's an English language channel, while HB is in Greek (they do have an English-language channel that went up last spring). HB has very solid technical content, but it's pretty dry. LTT will sometimes throw out some OK technical stuff, but it's VERY secondary to the entertainment value. Result: well over 5B lifetime views and enough revenue to justify spending USD10k on a tchotchke for a fluff piece.

 

[bug]

I wouldn't blame them and in fact as stated would encourage them the sell the chips at 50% higher price and include games/merch/funding to indie studios or developers in exchange.

It will either crater the GPU market and we gamers win, or it will cause the scalpers to lose out when they can't transfer the goodies and still have to pay for them.

It's the closest to the nuclear option of forcing single card sales to end users directly and account verification, which as much as I may hate it may be the next best option for us all.

Nope, still barking up the wrong tree.

The problem is miners that approach AIBs directly and offer more money for SKU. It's because of that that retail sees limited availability. Without limited availability at retail, scalpers would just starve.
As long as GPUs make them money, miners won't stop strangling supply.

 

[Operandi]

Focusing on platforms here, I don't think "conspiracy theory" is a applicable term. It's almost universally understood that content platforms, particularly in the "social" category, rely on attention and engagement. To keep that attention, they must present the user with content they'll continue to engage with. Creators on that platform, at least if they want enough impressions to earn income from the platform, need to produce content that meshes with that model.

Yes of course, thats the same of any form of media that relies on its audience engagement. Its only different in how they "the content creators" engage with the audience. Thats not what I'm talking about in relation to the term "conspiracy theory" though.

Anything highly technical is paid content and under NDA.

That notion. That anything (highly technical) on "social media" is paid content; that they don't care, or don't understand their topic / community on deep level and its all influencer celebrities grinding the algorithm while taking corporate money is straight up conspiracy theory stuff.

 

[Rean]

I disagree with the second point Kyle is trying to make . For sure many big tech Youtubers deserve to be called influencers but that being said fortunately for us Youtube also offers some excellent reviewers such as GamersNexus or HardwareUnboxed who rival if not set the standard in terms of principles/ethics even when compared to some of the the best critical reviewers working on written format ( especially true for the GamersNexus team ) . Hence why i find it a bit dishonest from Kyle Bennet to put all eggs in the same basket .

I mean YouTube is not any more different that traditional press , you have a majority of influencers and a few true journalists doing their job . In my opinion it boils down to the readers/content consumers , vast majority of potential readers/content consumers have not the intellectual capacity to read/consume some detailed analysis on a given subject thus this type of inviduals will naturally converge towards the influencers , the remaining small portion of individuals will naturally converge towards true reviewers .

The point Kyle was trying to make is: Because of this shift in consumer preferences and purchasing triggers, Nvidia and AMD don't really have much of an incentive to give GN and HU day 1 samples etc anymore. He's not saying they're bad, he's saying that by constantly harping on about MSRP, they are killing their (and the overall techtuber business model) golden goose. Because eventually, the bad press they create will impact the way these companies deal with the press in general.

Furthermore, the shift in the way the public makes purchasing decisions is slowly creating the death of the techtuber industry anyways.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Furthermore, the shift in the way the public makes purchasing decisions is slowly creating the death of the techtuber industry anyways.

Can you expand upon this?

 

[Waifu Hunter 2.0]

So, in short, are we supposed to wait and see what the Scalpers and Miners say GPUs are actually worth? I clearly missed something along the way here. Without MSRP, how do we keep Manufacturers honest about their products? For example, their current low end GPUs aren't even comparable to cards that came out 4-5 years ago. For gamers, this is basically being spat upon. It's an insult, to say the least. If we had no MSRP, the average person would be left spinning their wheels, trying to figure out why this part is not any better than what they currently have already.

Being at the lower end of mainstream enthusiasts, I would say most gamers do in fact care that their machines are capable of keeping up over a period of time. I can't think of a single moment where having a new part that's basically a regression in performance, compared to an older part, is somehow a good thing. And if this ìs the future path taken by manufacturers, I would just assume the gaming industry to be on its last leg. There's just no way that this is a good thing for the gaming industry.