TSMC Having Problems in Arizona, Increasing Investment in Japan

[TheLostSwede]

Things are apparently anything but smooth for TSMC when it comes to its US expansion in Arizona, as reports claim that the construction of its new fab in Arizona is going to be late. This is largely due to labour shortages caused by the pandemic, which in turn is set to delay the entire project. As such, it's being suggested that the installation of manufacturing equipment will be delayed from late Q3 this year until Q1 next year. The knock on effect of this is that production is unlikely to start in Q1 2024 and will most likely be delayed to sometime in the second half of 2024. As a comparison, TSMC normally spends two years to build and configure their fabs in Asia, whereas their first expansion outside of Asia is set to take at least two and a half years.

Another issue is said to be related to finding the right staff, since not only TSMC, but also Intel is looking for competent staff in Arizona. Intel might be the winner here, as TSMC is said to already have complaints from some of its employees, especially from western countries. The main complaint is about excessively long meetings that can add several hours to their workdays. Other complaints revolve around long working hours, as the company employs 12 hour shifts for its engineers and they are often on call over weekends. The company has apparently become increasingly demanding when it comes to its workforce, although TSMC has apparently improved in some ways, based on changes to the Taiwanese labour laws.




On the brighter side, Japanese Denso has been confirmed as an investor in TSMC's Japanese fab. This in turn has led TSMC to increase its own investment in Japan and the total investment will increase from close to US$7 billion to around US$8.6 billion. What this means in more practical terms is that the new fab will get an additional production line for 12 and 16 nanometer chips and an increased capacity of 55,000 12-inch wafers per month, up from 45,000. This is a big step up from the previously planned 22 and 28 nm production lines and would see a much wider range of chips being possible to produce here. Denso will have slightly more than 10 percent overship in the joint venture, with Sony sitting on around 20 percent, with TSMC as the majority shareholder.

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[Shihab]

There is a joke somewhere in here involving Japanese karoshi madness and 20th/21th century offshoring craze...

 

[mechtech]

Labour shortage or unexpected unionized trades labour wages or both??

edit. Only 25% longer to construct in the States vs Taiwan. I would call that a big win lol. I would expect at least 50% longer with red tape, environmental regs, labour laws, unions, other issues.

 

[Bomby569]

Labour shortage or unexpected unionized trades labour wages or both??

edit. Only 25% longer to construct in the States vs Taiwan. I would call that a big win lol. I would expect at least 50% longer with red tape, environmental regs, labour laws, unions, other issues.

Taiwan is not China, and isn't Texas like a deregulated heaven?

 

[TheLostSwede]

Labour shortage or unexpected unionized trades labour wages or both??

edit. Only 25% longer to construct in the States vs Taiwan. I would call that a big win lol. I would expect at least 50% longer with red tape, environmental regs, labour laws, unions, other issues.

We're talking pure construction time, plus installation of equipment etc.
The other bits have to be done first, so doesn't really count towards that time.
Plenty environmental regulations in Taiwan these days, even more so I would think for Singapore and now Japan.
The PRC on the other hand... The thickness of the red envelope is what counts.

 

[Dux]

Reminds me of my first job in this tech company where first day they told us that we must chooze between having a personal life and working for the company. I lasted 7 months before burnout.

 

[Daven]

Build, build, build….

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

IDC how long it takes as long as it gets done. When has any large project not have some sort of issue that delays construction?

 

[Tom Sunday]

We're talking pure construction time, plus installation of equipment etc.....

Anything but a smooth USA expansion for TSMC? Excuses proffered like labor shortages, equipment delays and employee issues are seemingly all smoke and mirrors. Reality may be much different as true US firms like Intel are given much more political cloud, voter support and to keeping profits and factories US owned and controlled. Besides keeping new product development, patents and techniques safe on its homeland. Now if only AMD would kindly step-up to the bar and start producing their chips in the USA, that would be a revelation. At this time AMD is still a “fabless” semiconductor manufacturer, marketing products solely to be produced at for-hire foundries outside the USA. This naturally deeply and negatively impacting AMD's dependencies on so-called foreign influences. At least one thing AMD has right so far: “The first letter of their company spells American!” WTF? I also questioning at times if TSMC would actually exist today in its format without having much earlier the US-role model and know how dumped into its lap?

 

[mechtech]

We're talking pure construction time, plus installation of equipment etc.
The other bits have to be done first, so doesn't really count towards that time.
Plenty environmental regulations in Taiwan these days, even more so I would think for Singapore and now Japan.
The PRC on the other hand... The thickness of the red envelope is what counts.

All in all though. Timeline for first time build for them in states isn’t too bad considering covid and everything else. Is there anything to compare to? GF foundry in NY? Intel have a new foundry lately in states? How long for those??

 

[bonehead123]

the company employs 12 hour shifts for its engineers and they are often on call over weekends

pity party anyone ?????

Seriously, engineers make really good bank, especially in tech, so did they REALLY think they would be working a slushy 9-5, M-F schedule or what, especially during the start up phase....

 

[Bomby569]

pity party anyone ?????

Seriously, engineers make really good bank, especially in tech, so did they REALLY think they would be working a slushy 9-5, M-F schedule or what, especially during the start up phase....

If it's temporaray i don't think it's unfair. If it's just house policy, this people can move and get better conditions elsewhere easily. Assuming it's not some junior position that is.
Claiming because they get paid well they have to endure any shit is absurd.

F slavery

 

[Assimilator]

pity party anyone ?????

Seriously, engineers make really good bank, especially in tech, so did they REALLY think they would be working a slushy 9-5, M-F schedule or what, especially during the start up phase....

"Engineers deserve to be exploited because their skills are in demand." Have you ever considered how stupid you sound?

 

[Mescalamba]

Expected. Pampered fragile white ppl vs merciless asian work slavery. Thats why stuff is made there, not in USA or EU.

Cheap, good quality stuff in large enough quantities doesn't allow for nice work.

 

[bonehead123]

"Engineers deserve to be exploited because their skills are in demand." Have you ever considered how stupid you sound?

Hummm... and here I thought personal attacks were not tolerated on here......oh well....

But anyways, I never said anything about anyone being expected to be exploited because of their higher skill levels, my point was that those higher-payed people should not expect to be working the same or less hours or have lower requirements placed upon them than those $10-20/hr production line folks who, in addition to lower wages, generally have less attractive benefits packages, 401k's, stock options etc, as well as little to zero job security....

And NO, I don't expect ANYONE, regardless of pay rate or skill level, to work 80-100 hours/week, but really, is having to sit in meetings for a few hours per week that big of a burden ????

 

[TheEndIsNear]

Well having been in America my whole life. In upstate ny. Our school systems are supposed to be the best in the country I guess. If that is case no wonder they can't find any smart people. It's not the same culture. My goal in high school was keg parties, girls. And now I make more than at least all the engineers at our company which pays pretty well. Believe me none of this is because of the supposedly superior public schools. I was told I wasn't going to amount to anything by teachers! Most of the things I've learned I taught myself.

 

[Solaris17]

At least one thing AMD has right so far: “The first letter of their company spells American!” WTF

idk if I just didn’t read this right, it’s way passed my bedtime, but AMD stands for “Advanced Micro Devices” not American. Incase there was actual confusion.

 

[prtskg]

pity party anyone ?????

Seriously, engineers make really good bank, especially in tech, so did they REALLY think they would be working a slushy 9-5, M-F schedule or what, especially during the start up phase....

We do have a life, you know. There's a phase in life when money is important but not everytime. Family, personal time becomes important. 8 h work schedule usually means a bit more than 9 hours. If it's 12h on paper, it will be like 13-14h in reality. Then there's not much time for anything except work. Continue this for 6 days a week and than you find nothing in life other than work.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

idk if I just didn’t read this right, it’s way passed my bedtime, but AMD stands for “Advanced Micro Devices” not American. Incase there was actual confusion.

You're sleep walking, it does say American Made Derpyderpydoo

 

[Bomby569]

it would have to be MMD (Murika Micro Devices)

 

[Jack1n]

Expected. Pampered fragile white ppl vs merciless asian work slavery. Thats why stuff is made there, not in USA or EU.

Cheap, good quality stuff in large enough quantities doesn't allow for nice work.

"good quality", hilarious.

 

[Mescalamba]

"good quality", hilarious.

Its TSMC, good quality is mandatory, simply cause chips either work or they don't. You can bin them based on how much they work, but in the end they need to work.