Chinese SMIC Ships 7 nm Chips, Reportedly Copied TSMC's Design

[AleksandarK]

The Chinese technology giant, SMIC, has managed to advance its semiconductor manufacturing technology and shipped the first 7 nm silicon manufactured on China's soil. According to analyst firm TechInsights, who examined the 7 nm Bitcoin mining SoC made for MinerVa firm, there are doubts that SMIC 7 nm process is somewhat similar to TSMC's 7 nm process. Despite having no access to advanced semiconductor manufacturing tools, and US restrictions placed around it, SMIC has managed to produce what resembles an almost perfect 7 nm node. This could lead to a true 7 nm logic and memory bitcells sometimes in the future, as the node advances in SMIC's labs.

Having done an in-depth die analysis, the TechInsights report indicates that TSMC, Intel, and Samsung have a more advanced 7 nm node and are two nodes ahead of the Chinese SMIC. The results are not great regarding the economics and yield of this SMIC 7 nm process. While we have no specific data, the report indicates that the actual working chips made with older DUV tools are not perfect. This is not a problem for the Chinese market as it seeks independence from Western companies and technology. However, introducing a China-made 7 nm chip is more critical as it shows that the country can manufacture advanced nodes with restrictions and sanctions in place. The MinerVa SoC die and the PCB that houses those chips are pictured below.


View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source

 

[Bones]

Typical Chinese "Innovation" (Copying/intellectual property theft) reportedly in play here.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

However, introducing a China-made 7 nm chip is more critical as it shows that the country can manufacture advanced nodes with restrictions and sanctions in place.

Shows not to under estimate China

 

[undorich]

you should know that the chinese are commis right ? and you as us citizen also should know what a joint venture is right ? so the deal is as follows, everything gets produced in china, the patent for it, then automaticly goes to the chin. goverment. this commi goverment owns of course, everything. thats communism, in case you forgot. so if amd, intel and all the others are producing their products in china , who is holding the patents then ? so they do not need to steel or spy on anything. they are getting it for free and the tec comp. are even bringing it to them. and the tec not send over for free, well they get it as a free present,like the german transrapid. germany gave all research, all patents, alle beta test and all prototypes to china for free. why ? case the german politicans said so. who are they working for then ?

 

[Deleted member 24505]

you should know that the chinese are commis right ? and you as us citizen also should know what a joint venture is right ? so the deal is as follows, everything gets produced in china, the patent for it, then automaticly goes to the chin. goverment. this commi goverment owns of course, everything. thats communism, in case you forgot. so if amd, intel and all the others are producing their products in china , who is holding the patents then ? so they do not need to steel or spy on anything. they are getting it for free and the tec comp. are even bringing it to them. and the tec not send over for free, well they get it as a free present,like the german transrapid. germany gave all research, all patents, alle beta test and all prototypes to china for free. why ? case the german politicans said so. who are they working for then ?

The patent owner can get their products produced where ever they like. Just because you have it made in another country, does not mean that country then owns the patent.

 

[undorich]

The patent owner can get their products produced where ever they like. Just because you have it made in another country, does not mean that country then owns the patent.

to have your products produced in china, you have to hand over the patents to the chinese goverment. simple as that.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

to have your products produced in china, you have to hand over the patents to the chinese goverment. simple as that.

Really. show me where it states that.

 

[thewan]

you should know that the chinese are commis right ? and you as us citizen also should know what a joint venture is right ? so the deal is as follows, everything gets produced in china, the patent for it, then automaticly goes to the chin. goverment. this commi goverment owns of course, everything. thats communism, in case you forgot. so if amd, intel and all the others are producing their products in china , who is holding the patents then ? so they do not need to steel or spy on anything. they are getting it for free and the tec comp. are even bringing it to them. and the tec not send over for free, well they get it as a free present,like the german transrapid. germany gave all research, all patents, alle beta test and all prototypes to china for free. why ? case the german politicans said so. who are they working for then ?

Does not apply to chips. The only thing chip foundries like TSMC, Samsung, Intel, etc, as well as design owners like AMD and Nvidia are doing in China with their chips are final packaging and assembly. China does not manufacture those chips. In order for China copy those chips, they have to disassemble and reverse engineer the chips they receive from other countries. The other way is of course through espionage where China steals all documentation related to designing those chips and manufacture them from there. Either way, China does not manufacture those chips, hence they do not gain knowledge from the process of doing so. That knowledge is obtained from other methods such as I mentioned above, not from what you said. What you say may apply to many other things, but not chips made by non-chinese companies.

 

[Prima.Vera]

So where did they get the Lithography tools? As far as I understood, those still cannot be produced in China due to their complexity.

 

[medi01]

Typical Chinese "Innovation" (Copying/intellectual property theft) reportedly in play here.

Ruzzia tried, but failed, what does that tell us?

China is OPENLY creating a parallel "China only" world, preparing for, you guess what.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

That's good news, the more competition we have the better, preferably from different parts of the world so we don't get stuck when our brainless leaders decide to make our lives miserable for their personal gain.

 

[Chrispy_]

I'm a little confused on the meaning of this article.

The headline accuses SMIC of copying TSMC, but the body implies the opposite: "there are doubts that SMIC 7 nm process is somewhat similar to TSMC's 7 nm process."

 

[MarsM4N]

Ohh no, How Did That Happen?

 

[Fourstaff]

For the longest time SMIC has been stuck at 14nm due to their lack of expertise and access to EUV technologies. If this is true, then they have managed to solve the expertise problem and managed to circumvent the restrictions placed. I will not be surprised if they slowly work their way towards 5nm soon. Depending on their volume, this may mean cheaper graphics card for everyone else as it relieves pressure on TSMC and Samsung fabs.

 

[Veseleil]

So where did they get the Lithography tools? As far as I understood, those still cannot be produced in China due to their complexity.

Good question.

 

[R-T-B]

you should know that the chinese are commis right ? and you as us citizen also should know what a joint venture is right ? so the deal is as follows, everything gets produced in china, the patent for it, then automaticly goes to the chin. goverment. this commi goverment owns of course, everything. thats communism, in case you forgot. so if amd, intel and all the others are producing their products in china , who is holding the patents then ? so they do not need to steel or spy on anything. they are getting it for free and the tec comp. are even bringing it to them. and the tec not send over for free, well they get it as a free present,like the german transrapid. germany gave all research, all patents, alle beta test and all prototypes to china for free. why ? case the german politicans said so. who are they working for then ?

You really have no idea how China works if you think it's blanket communism like that. They have a patent office ffs.

Yes they have a history of accessing that patent office at the government level much like a personal library, but none of that has anything to do with the fear word "communism" which China largely has abandoned in everything but show.

I'm a little confused on the meaning of this article.

The headline accuses SMIC of copying TSMC, but the body implies the opposite: "there are doubts that SMIC 7 nm process is somewhat similar to TSMC's 7 nm process."

It also says the process is 2 gens behind, so we are misunderstanding something here.

 

[890zxc]

I'm a little confused on the meaning of this article.

The headline accuses SMIC of copying TSMC, but the body implies the opposite: "there are doubts that SMIC 7 nm process is somewhat similar to TSMC's 7 nm process."

It is unwise to put uncofirmed news in the headline, particularly when those allegations are disgraceful to others. While the article does get more clicks through this.

 

[ModEl4]

MinerVa, lol clever name.
Goddess in the Roman Pantheon of gods and much before that as Athens (Athena) in Greece.
Maybe the name also symbolize that the technology behind it is product of parthenogenesis.(Parthenon is the most famous temple dedicated to the goddess)

 

[Aquinus]

It also says the process is 2 gens behind, so we are misunderstanding something here.

Probably because they couldn't also steal the EUV machines required to utilize the other designs that they stole.

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

Really. show me where it states that.

A License to Steal IP: What Partnering with China Really Means for Businesses

“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help,” said President Ronald Reagan in 1986. Now, the 12 most terrifying words in the English language for any business should be: “I’m from China, and my company would like to partner with yours.”

www.ipwatchdog.com

I wanna say the reason the trade wars and tariffs started was because of Chinese companies (China owned) blackmailing US companies to hand over IP for various reasons, including bail-outs, there was a bunch of news about all this at the time, I think 2016-ish.

 

[big_glasses]

A License to Steal IP: What Partnering with China Really Means for Businesses

“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help,” said President Ronald Reagan in 1986. Now, the 12 most terrifying words in the English language for any business should be: “I’m from China, and my company would like to partner with yours.”

www.ipwatchdog.com

I wanna say the reason the trade wars and tariffs started was because of China blackmailing US companies to hand over IP for various reasons, including bail-outs, there was a bunch of news about all this at the time, I think 2016-ish.

ye, china doesn't care too much about foreign IP's
and just see how the ARM-China branch went rouge...

and of course the disregard of foreign ownership. You can't (couldn't?) completely own your own chinese branch/office, but it needed to be in collaboration with a chinese company. With the chinese having minimum 51% ownership... (might've been certain exception, but this is general rule) (seems article bellow says they will increase ownership cap in 2020 (article form 19))

China to remove foreign ownership limits by 2020

China is opening up its financial services sector to more outside competition by scrapping restrictions on foreign ownership limits.

www.privatebankerinternational.com

More:

1 in 5 corporations say China has stolen their IP within the last year: CNBC CFO survey

The survey's findings reinforce the importance of IP theft in the trade war negotiations between the Trump administration and China.

www.cnbc.com

Chinese Free Look Schemes to Steal your IP – Harris Sliwoski LLP

harrisbricken.com

Manufacturing in China can be risky! 10 Examples of China IP Theft - QualityInspection.org

China is a great choice for manufacturing your new product, especially if it's complex. But the risk of China IP theft is very real, as these examples show.

qualityinspection.org

How you think Huawei became big...

Huawei Admits Copying Code From Cisco in Router Software - WSJ

But Chinese Company Says It Is Removing

www.wsj.com

Cisco sues Huawei over intellectual property

The networking company wants to stop Huawei from using, selling, marketing or distributing versions of its Quidway routers and switches that infringe Cisco's intellectual property.

www.computerworld.com

Cisco, Huawei suspend lawsuit--again

Cisco Systems extends the suspension of its copyright lawsuit against Huawei Technologies another six months.

www.cnet.com

Tech in Asia - Connecting Asia's startup ecosystem

www.techinasia.com

Top 9 Evidence of Huawei’s Backdoor, IP Theft & Alleged Hacking Reports

Huawei is the largest multinational tech company based out of Shenzhen, China. Apart from selling smartphones and other consumer electronics, it also one of the leading telecommunications equipment provider in the world. The company which was recently banned by the U.S. government cannot do any...

phoneradar.com

edit:Still pretty impressive if they're using "old tools"

 

[phanbuey]

So much talent stuck under communism.

WATCH: China rolls out tanks on street to stop its CITIZENS from using banks (dnaindia.com)

 

[SOAREVERSOR]

The patent owner can get their products produced where ever they like. Just because you have it made in another country, does not mean that country then owns the patent.

The first half is true, the second not so much. Corporations know having things made, or any part of your manufacturing done, in China results in the Chinese military looking at it because they are implanted at all these plants. So you lose trade secrets to the Chinese in exchange for higher profit margins. As profit matters the most the game is to chase higher profits, screw the security implications, and count on constant innovation to produce a product the Chinese can't compete with.

 

[medi01]

A License to Steal IP: What Partnering with China Really Means for Businesses

“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help,” said President Ronald Reagan in 1986. Now, the 12 most terrifying words in the English language for any business should be: “I’m from China, and my company would like to partner with yours.”

www.ipwatchdog.com

I wanna say the reason the trade wars and tariffs started was because of Chinese companies (China owned) blackmailing US companies to hand over IP for various reasons, including bail-outs, there was a bunch of news about all this at the time, I think 2016-ish.

How it worked with German companies: "ah, we have to innovate anyway, they will steal our old stuff, we'll invent new".

Germany pioneers wind power generation. China gets involved, fast forward to 2022: last German company in that market is shutting down.

 

[Tomorrow]

I'm a little confused on the meaning of this article.

The headline accuses SMIC of copying TSMC, but the body implies the opposite: "there are doubts that SMIC 7 nm process is somewhat similar to TSMC's 7 nm process."

Is it the same as Intel's "10nm" ?

Chinese are known to lie about their technological prowess. I would not surprised if this "7nm" is actually more like "17nm" or "27nm". Of course that itself is a lie if we take actual gate sizes that all manufacturers including TSMC lie about. Unfortunately the whole nm is more marketing than reality these days.