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AMD Ryzen 7000X3D Processors Prone to Physical Damage with Voltage-assisted Overclocking, Motherboard Vendors Rush BIOS Updates with Voltage Limiters

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AMD Ryzen 7000X3D processors are prone to irreversible physical damage if CPU overclocking is attempted at some of the higher VDDCR voltages (the main power domain for the CPU cores). A Redditor who goes by Speedrookie, attempted to overclock their Ryzen 7 7800X3D, leading to an irreversible failure. The motherboard socket and the processor's land-grid contacts, show signs of overheating damage caused by the contacts melting from too much current draw.

A Ryzen 7000X3D processor features a special CPU complex die (CCD) with stacked 3D Vertical Cache memory. This cache die is located in the central region over the CCD where its 32 MB on-die L3 cache is located, while the difference in Z-height of the stacked die is filled up by structural silicon, which sit over the regions of the CCD with the 8 "Zen 4" CPU cores. It stands to reason that besides having an inferior thermal transfer setup to conventional "Zen 4" CCDs (without the 3DV cache), the CCD itself has a higher power-draw at any given clock-speed than a conventional CCD (since it's also powering the L3D). This is the main reason why overclocking capabilities on the 7000X3D processors are almost non-existent, and the processor's power limits are generally lower than their regular Ryzen 7000X counterparts. Attempting to dial up voltage kicks up the perfect storm for these processors.



Igor's Lab posted a detailed analysis of the region of the Socket AM5 land-grid most susceptible to a burn-out in the above scenario. The central region of the LGA has 93 pins dedicated to the VDDCR power domain, dispersed in a mostly checkered pattern, toward the center of the land-grid. Igor isolated 6 of these VDDCR pins in particular, which are most prone to physical damage, as they are located in a region below the CCD that sees it sandwiched between the L3D (stacked 3D Vertical cache die), and the fiberglass substrate below. Apparently, AMD's thermal and electrical protection mechanisms aren't able to prevent a runaway overheating of the pins that causes the substrate to melt, deform, and bulge outward, resulting in irreversible damage to both the processor and the socket.

Meanwhile, AMD's motherboard partners are rushing to release UEFI BIOS updates for their entire lineups of motherboards, which enforce tighter limits on the VDDCR voltage. MSI is the first motherboard manufacturer with such updates. MSI, in a press statement, stated that it has redesigned automated overclocking for 7000X3D processors. "The BIOS now only supports negative offset voltage settings, which can reduce the CPU voltage only," the MSI statement to Tom's Hardware reads. "MSI Center also restricts any direct voltage and frequency adjustments, ensuring that the CPU won't be damaged due to over-voltage." On the other hand, the update introduces an automated overclocking feature called Enhanced Mode Boost, which optimizes PBO settings to improve boost frequency residency, without any manual voltage adjustments.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source
 
:eek: Didn't see that coming.
 
How? AMD has been insistent that X3D chips shouldn't be OC'd, and even included a warning that OC related damage wasn't covered under warranty (at least, with the 5800X3D).

So it's not really a surprise that OC'ing an X3D chip hard would end up frying the more voltage sensitive CPU.

Right which is why they locked it -- but MOBO manufacturers apparently didn't get the memo.

It's 100% on the mobo, but still -- kind of a brutal problem to have with a shiny premium product. From a consumer point of view having a "Tune Performance!" button in the bios that explodes your chip isn't ideal.
 
Premature launch, AMD desperate for losing the crown of leader in gaming and decreasing revenues.
The processor consumes very little and yet ... disaster. Related to consumption, such accidents are not allowed. They will probably solve it in the future, but already released processors will be permanently at risk, even without overclocking.
A good cooler, which does not allow it to reach critical temperatures, is recommended.

der8auer, "fried" a 7950X3D a month ago.

 
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Premature launch, AMD desperate for losing the crown of leader in gaming and decreasing revenues.
The processor consumes very little and yet ... disaster. Related to consumption, such accidents are not allowed. They will probably solve it in the future, but already released processors will be permanently at risk, even without overclocking.
A good cooler, which does not allow it to reach critical temperatures, is recommended.

der8auer, "fried" a 7950X3D a month ago.

>do something not recommended or covered under warranty

>it breaks

HOW COULD AMD DO THIS
 
Why would you even want to OC the fastest gaming CPU in the world?

Why would you even want to OC to begin with in 2023, everything clocks so high out of the box that 15C for 100 MHz isn't worth it.
 
It is not the first time that manufacturers have to respond to AMD's blunders. It is clearly a mistake in the design of the socket and the protection of the processor. Hard to destroy a processor these days. He doesn't actually let you kill him.
>use software to tune component beyond manufacturer recommended settings

>it breaks

>It is clearly a mistake in the design of the socket and the protection of the processor.

I’m getting a good laugh this Monday morning
 
Why would you even want to OC the fastest gaming CPU in the world?

Why would you even want to OC to begin with in 2023, everything clocks so high out of the box that 15C for 100 MHz isn't worth it.

Because you can gain another 10-25% for free and it's fun? A tuned 7800X3D with PBO undervolt and fast memory is a seriously awesome chip.

If you're at the 15C for 100Mhz point then you either pushed WAY past diminishing returns point and should turn back.

Usually CPUs don't explode - so that's not typically a risk people account for these days.
 
Why would you even want to OC the fastest gaming CPU in the world?

Why would you even want to OC to begin with in 2023, everything clocks so high out of the box that 15C for 100 MHz isn't worth it.
Because, in others, it is under an octocore (7700X and even 7700).
Because you know they have protections that prevent destruction.

A much better question: did AMD provide the correct technical data to motherboard manufacturers? It seems not.
 
Because, in others, it is under an octocore (7700X and even 7700).
Because you know they have protections that prevent destruction.

A much better question: did AMD provide the correct technical data to motherboard manufacturers? It seems not.

This has always been an AMD issue tbh -- they don't have the staff to integrate with board partners at the level of Intel/nvidia and every release has some MOBO vs AMD drama... whether it's RAM compatibility Zen1, USB ports, Bios microcode being too big causing some AM4 not to support AM4 chips, and now chips exploding.

There's easily a 10% difference in performance between gigabyte boards vs the rest of the field for the same chips.
 
Because you can gain another 10-25% for free and it's fun? A tuned 7800X3D with PBO undervolt and fast memory is a seriously awesome chip.

If you're at the 15C for 100Mhz point then you either pushed WAY past diminishing returns point and should turn back.

Usually CPUs don't explode - so that's not typically a risk people account for these days.
I mean that's probably why it's such a unicorn case. Everyone and their mother with an X3D chip knows that increasing voltages is much more likely to reduce performance than improve it. The meat of the gains is in the CO. The guy with the burned chip must've tried the old OC methods.

I'm not excusing AMD for this though, don't get me wrong.
 
Why do people not just leave the CPUs as they are and as for all the bashing about rushed product and being the fault of AMD. That is not true. One of the things that people who have built many PCs knows is that Gigabyte especially likes to push more voltage than reported by software but MSI and AS Rock are not far behind. Only buy Asus TUF and above as Prime is treated like budget by Asus. I have not seen my 7900X3D go past 1.36 volts and I don't mind at all. I know that there is a narrative out there that OC is always a good thing but the current generation of chips are already tuned to perform as it is not like these chips are being released in Dead space. Thank Intel for taking up the gauntlet and challenging AMD. When I had my 5800X3D I lamented about the clock speed. Well looks like the 7800X3D can also boost over 5 GHZ and that is not something to diminish. DDR5 pricing is no longer a mitigating factor either but the only thing I would do for OC would be to use AMD Software and the one button choices like undervolting.
 
Like in the good old days, when you could burn your CPU for over OC it with smoke coming out.
AMD have a better record with their CPU`s fot achiving that burn-in-smoke trophy.

Damaging the CPU is one thing and for sure not covered by warranty for OC, but collateral damaging the mobo is a different story...
Not cool at all.
 
Why do people not just leave the CPUs as they are and as for all the bashing about rushed product and being the fault of AMD. That is not true. One of the things that people who have built many PCs knows is that Gigabyte especially likes to push more voltage than reported by software but MSI and AS Rock are not far behind. Only buy Asus TUF and above as Prime is treated like budget by Asus. I have not seen my 7900X3D go past 1.36 volts and I don't mind at all. I know that there is a narrative out there that OC is always a good thing but the current generation of chips are already tuned to perform as it is not like these chips are being released in Dead space. Thank Intel for taking up the gauntlet and challenging AMD. When I had my 5800X3D I lamented about the clock speed. Well looks like the 7800X3D can also boost over 5 GHZ and that is not something to diminish. DDR5 pricing is no longer a mitigating factor either but the only thing I would do for OC would be to use AMD Software and the one button choices like undervolting.

But even if you do that, it doesn't save you from AMD's lack of MRC/sub-timings guidance, and their lack of communication to board partners.

You can build bone stock AMD systems that have wildly different behaviors depending on your choice of motherboard even with the same spec of other components.

Right now if you build a 7800X3D system on a B650 or 670 gigabyte board, with 32 or 64 GB and 2x sticks that are on the QVL and PBO undervolt it --- you have the best gaming rig money can buy. If you deviate from that AT ALL, you're in the "F%& around and find out" territory. God bless you if you want 128GB of ram.
 
This has always been an AMD issue tbh -- they don't have the staff to integrate with board partners at the level of Intel/nvidia and every release has some MOBO vs AMD drama... whether it's RAM compatibility Zen1, USB ports, Bios microcode being too big causing some AM4 not to support AM4 chips, and now chips exploding.

There's easily a 10% difference in performance between gigabyte boards vs the rest of the field for the same chips.
Yes, this appears to be true - and is even more painfully true in notebooks. It's a major reason every manufacturer is trying to avoid AMD's chips I believe, no matter how good they are.
 
Isn't this old news from like 2+ weeks ago, when it was already debunked even on TPU?

Wow

No, you're not supposed to OC X3Ds. RTFM, you clickbaiting idiots.

I mean that's probably why it's such a unicorn case. Everyone and their mother with an X3D chip knows that increasing voltages is much more likely to reduce performance than improve it. The meat of the gains is in the CO. The guy with the burned chip must've tried the old OC methods.

I'm not excusing AMD for this though, don't get me wrong.
Can fully agree with this, yes it should have been locked down. But still. RTFM

Its a bit like customer due diligence. If you stumble forward oblivious of reality, you will step in doodoo
I guess people like their disclaimers before common sense.
 
And people were flopping at the 3d chips like crazy. Rule of thumb never go all in on 1st gen AMD. There's been way too many early adopter problems with them through the years.
 
Right which is why they locked it -- but MOBO manufacturers apparently didn't get the memo.

It's 100% on the mobo, but still -- kind of a brutal problem to have with a shiny premium product. From a consumer point of view having a "Tune Performance!" button in the bios that explodes your chip isn't ideal.

Exactly. :) Looks like it only happened on X670 boards. Well, the whole selling point of X670 boards are their "Overclocking Capabilities", which is just buring money if bundled with the 7800X3D.

Seen reports about disapearing BIOS'ses for the ASUS boards on their website where 8 versions got replaced by 2 new. So it's definitely a sloppy MOBO manufacturers job. Looks like they just copy pasted BIOS versions/settings of non 3D chips and toasted 3D chips if you enabled EXPO overclocking. There is a post at igorsLAB where a user could replicate the issue. So if you run EXPO settings better deactivate it right now or run custom settings. If there is already a new BIOS update out for your mobo that fixes the issue update it ASAP!

Looks like they cover your chip and mobo if you fried them already. Heard also some chatter about running EXPO overclocking would be out of spec & would void warranty. Nonsense or true?
 
And people were flopping at the 3d chips like crazy. Rule of thumb never go all in on 1st gen AMD. There's been way too many early adopter problems with their problems true the years.
I kinda love your typo. Don't change it

>do something not recommended or covered under warranty

>it breaks

HOW COULD AMD DO THIS
In Snowflake Gen Z times, this is how the world turns.
 
And people were flopping at the 3d chips like crazy. Rule of thumb never go all in on 1st gen AMD. There's been way too many early adopter problems with them through the years.

But this is not AMDs fault in this case, even on the 5800X3D they said don't overclock as that cache hates it and yet this option is available in some form on the 7000X3D series because of the motherboard vendor, the board companies are 100% to blame here for this situation. AMD needs to do something about this because the board vendors are giving AMD really bad PR over their poor quality control.
 
I'm really at a loss for how people are blaming AMD for a user error....the info has been widely disseminated since the 5800x3d that they're not for overclocking, and it's probably safe to assume that if a user is experimenting with overclocking these, then they're "enthusiast" enough to have been exposed to that warning.

As for the people (or person) claiming that AMD doesn't work enough with MOBO partners......what? There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that mobo manufacturers are FULLY aware of the limitations of these chips, but probably tried to push it even further for a competitive advantage. As far as "working with" these manufacturers, It seems like I'm the only one who knows or acknowledges the fact that Intel spends over 3x the amount AMD does on R&D and that includes bribing, I mean "reimbursing development costs" to OEMs....funds that AMD probably dont have.

I kinda love your typo. Don't change it


In Snowflake Gen Z times, this is how the world turns.
You understand that sethmatrix7 was making a joke, right? Because it doesn't seem like you do

And people were flopping at the 3d chips like crazy. Rule of thumb never go all in on 1st gen AMD. There's been way too many early adopter problems with them through the years.
Although I try not to engage in whataboutisms....name another company of the SAME SIZE and FINANCIAL resources as AMD who hasn't had some problems
 
But this is not AMDs fault in this case, even on the 5800X3D they said don't overclock as that cache hates it and yet this option is available in some form on the 7000X3D series because of the motherboard vendor, the board companies are 100% to blame here for this situation. AMD needs to do something about this because the board vendors are giving AMD really bad PR over their poor quality control.
It's not just the 3d chips that are going kaboom.

 
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