Star Wars Jedi: Survivor Receives First Patch on PC Today, Respawn Entertainment Issues Apology Message

[chrcoluk]

Because millions will consooome it regardless.

For any remaining star wars fans this is the only thing with the hint of quality that the games carried 20 years ago.

Somehow, by using the same game engine, one they had already worked with before, and REMOVING the low end target of the PS4/xbone, said devs managed to make the game run worse.

How? All they had to do from a technical standpoint was make some new maps and add some higher rez textures. How do you screw that up? If it's not laziness, is it incompetence? On performance mode, they are up-scaling the game from 896p. Sub 1080p. In 2023. There is no reason this game should run like absolute garbage. Fallen order doesnt look noticeably better or worse, yet only uses 4.2GB of VRAM and runs at 4k on a 2080ti. On the same game engine.

These devs are either re creating their code from scratch for every release or are just unwilling to optimize their code in ANY way. Which is laziness. You claim its the publisher, people claimed the same thing when bioware kept screwing up, only it came out that EA was hands off with them and they royally screwed themselves.

In my opinion its a combination of both.

I feel the workflow is backwards, so first they concentrate on making the skeleton of the game, and adding things so it looks visually nice, then its only at end of workflow they start to try and make it run viable on consumer hardware, this end part is usually that bit at the very end when they have very little time left, but perhaps even more important, by the time you at the end you are committed to the engine and code. There is only limited things they can do, and this last reason is why optimisation should be a as you go sort of thing so if you recognise performance issues early, then they easier to fix.

Your point on using same engine is very valid, agree on that for sure.

I remember FF13 got made, and its sequel FF13-2, they were apparently on the same engine, and both games shared textures and stuff, yet FF13-2 runs way worse. This makes no sense as FF13 e.g. had enemies spawned on the field (making it more demanding), yet runs much better. A big difference between the two games is that FF13 had a long development time multiple years, whilst I think FF13-2 was made in a year or so.

 

[Psychoholic]

That's awesome news, what kind of frame rate are you seeing? I'm assuming you're playing on epic with ray tracing disabled? (unless you have ray tracing enabled and it's still awesome...that would be great!)

Correct, Epic, No raytracing and No FSR, seeing mid to high 80s (3840X1600 Resolution)
WITH FSR enabled on balanced I was seeing around 115.

Atleast now my GPU is hitting 100%, before the patch it was maybe mid 70% utilization.

 

[R-T-B]

Some Publishers are brutal. CDPR, for one, has been in the gaming news numerous times for abusive practices towards their employees. When it gets near launch time sometimes employees are worked to death to make the deadline.

EA has a history of this as well, which is why I suspect as much translating down the star wars chain of command, frankly.

Your point on using same engine is very valid, agree on that for sure.

I mean if you really want to go there, 90% of games today use either Unreal or Unity in some form, there really isn't much else out there anymore, maybe 1% of games will write their own engine. Pretty sure Cryengine became Lumberyard or something at amazon and is (mostly) dead, besides that.

It's more down to the code quality than the engine. As such, dx11 vs dx12 is much more likely to make an impact because the devs then need to have a very high skill level to optimize assets. Guess what this game renders exclusively in?

Unfortunately talent and experience are no longer top priority on hiring. Diversity and Inclusion is and some Publishers like Ubisoft have come right out and said that. This is a trend in Developing these days.

This is not really as bad as it sounds. Most of the outreach programs still prioritize skill. An example would be the autism outreach programs nearly all devs have, because they know autistic people tend to make crazy good coders. This doesn't mean they are going to "just hire you" for being autistic. You still need to know how to code, and do it well. If you just jump at the sight of people, that's not enough buddy.

Nearly any social group of any size above .1% of the population is going to have some excellent coders. You just need to find them. If your hiring biases don't show an even spread proportionate to expected skill levels in those groups, that's hurting you not helping you.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

R-T-B - Overview

R-T-B has 44 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.

github.com

I do some things. Most are private, but some aren't. You can sort of guess my work portfolio from it, I suppose

but wheres your citations, son?

Right here:
10 FART
20 go to 10

I'm quite proud of it.

I actually have but you are avoiding the answers. Chief bet is dx12, followed by a badly implemented "make this happen" raytracing checklist from the publisher.

DX12 I could buy, but then that would imply that there is something seriously wrong with the DX12 tools for UE4. And their GNMX/PSSL implementation, given the playstation version also runs like arse.

As for RT, if you have to implement it, again you dont crank it to 11 when your target is the series S. Why not implement a more limited version of it, one that runs right, therefore not tanking your project?

This just seems like common sense to me.

I'd put laziness behind "overworked devs" 9 times out of 10 though, having actually worked this market in the past.

"people of given profession insist its not the people in their profession that are the problem".

Everyone that is part of a profession insists on this. Most of them are wrong. Management likely views it as "We asked them to use this new RT feature that the consoles can do and now everyone says our game runs like garbage. What are we paying them for?"

Every lazy person I have worked with over the years will insist they are not the problem, its always some outside force. Its management, its the consumers, its the client, ece. EA has had two recent incidences of developemnt studios that were given all the leash in the world and burning it, the first being bioware, and more recently DICE. People will still insist it was EAs fault, even when these studios ramrod a brick wall of their own accord.

KSP2 is suffering similarly, witn similar accusations of "dev laziness" when in actuality, it's industry wide feature creep to unattainable levels. The devs go home crying, and everyone hates them.

Everyone thinks their lazy because there are indie devs out there putting out better stuff then these multi billion dollar AAA companies can slap together.

 

[chrcoluk]

EA has a history of this as well, which is why I suspect as much translating down the star wars chain of command, frankly.


I mean if you really want to go there, 90% of games today use either Unreal or Unity in some form, there really isn't much else out there anymore, maybe 1% of games will write their own engine. Pretty sure Cryengine became Lumberyard or something at amazon and is (mostly) dead, besides that.

It's more down to the code quality than the engine. As such, dx11 vs dx12 is much more likely to make an impact because the devs then need to have a very high skill level to optimize assets. Guess what this game renders exclusively in?


This is not really as bad as it sounds. Most of the outreach programs still prioritize skill. An example would be the autism outreach programs nearly all devs have, because they know autistic people tend to make crazy good coders. This doesn't mean they are going to "just hire you" for being autistic. You still need to know how to code, and do it well. If you just jump at the sight of people, that's not enough buddy.

Nearly any social group of any size above .1% of the population is going to have some excellent coders. You just need to find them. If your hiring biases don't show an even spread proportionate to expected skill levels in those groups, that's hurting you not helping you.

Maybe thats part of the problem as well, writing own engine might be the way to go as UE4 seems to suck, so many games using it have a ton of problems.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Maybe thats part of the problem as well, writing own engine might be the way to go as UE4 seems to suck, so many games using it have a ton of problems.

That's not a guarantee either. Bethesda's games still rely on mods to fix problems dating back to the release of morrowind. I dont think its UE4 per se, but rahter devs are either unsable or unwilling (or both) to optimize cod ewhen you can just shove 16GB of RAM at it. Of course it could also be UE4, perhaps UE4 just cant handle 4k well, and UE5 will fix that. UE3 was terrible for high FPS games after all.

In my opinion its a combination of both.

I feel the workflow is backwards, so first they concentrate on making the skeleton of the game, and adding things so it looks visually nice, then its only at end of workflow they start to try and make it run viable on consumer hardware, this end part is usually that bit at the very end when they have very little time left, but perhaps even more important, by the time you at the end you are committed to the engine and code. There is only limited things they can do, and this last reason is why optimisation should be a as you go sort of thing so if you recognise performance issues early, then they easier to fix.

Honestly that makes more sense.

 

[sepheronx]

Maybe thats part of the problem as well, writing own engine might be the way to go as UE4 seems to suck, so many games using it have a ton of problems.

Dead Island 2 uses UE4 and doesn't have half the problems. Maybe they just did a far better job at optimizing.

 

[Minus Infinity]

I wonder how many people having issues on STEAM rush out and buy every single AA/AAA release first day and then complain about how crap the games runs? Yes the developers are fwits, but this has been going on for the last 10 years, and IMO if you buy a zero day release you are an lunatic full stop. It's the very definition of insanity. I will not buy any game less than 6 months old, usually I wait 12 months or more. Only exception would be that rare beast that runs great on release, but even then I wait for some discounting.

 

[cvaldes]

Dead Island 2 uses UE4 and doesn't have half the problems. Maybe they just did a far better job at optimizing.

Not every game using UE4 has major problems. That indicates that some developers know how to write games for that engine and some do not. Sadly, it appears that the particular team at Respawn assigned to Jedi Survivor were part of the latter.

When more people start writing titles for UE5, I'd expect the same. Some UE5 games will run poorly and others will run pretty well. For what it's worth, Fortnite is now based on UE5 and is running well.

I wonder how many people having issues on STEAM rush out and buy every single AA/AAA release first day and then complain about how crap the games runs? Yes the developers are fwits, but this has been going on for the last 10 years, and IMO if you buy a zero day release you are an lunatic full stop. It's the very definition of insanity. I will not buy any game less than 6 months old, usually I wait 12 months or more. Only exception would be that rare beast that runs great on release, but even then I wait for some discounting.

There are new gamers every day. P. T. Barnum still applies.

Some people don't learn from previous mistakes. Some think that Game X will be the exception. Some want the extra goodies with the pre-release. Some just want to be the cool kid on the block playing the new title on release day. Some people probably aren't terribly bothered by the warts.

A large portion of the video game audience has extremely low standards. My guess is that it will continue to get worse over time.

Sadly, all of this encourages video game developers to release crap. Why should they make an effort to release quality software when there are legions of gamers who are willing to pay full retail for garbage?

De gustibus non est disputandum

 

[Easo]

That apology message is borderline insulting. Oh corpos, never change.

 

[Arco]

R-T-B - Overview

R-T-B has 44 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.

github.com

I do some things. Most are private, but some aren't. You can sort of guess my work portfolio from it, I suppose

but wheres your citations, son?


I actually have but you are avoiding the answers. Chief bet is dx12, followed by a badly implemented "make this happen" raytracing checklist from the publisher.

I'd put laziness behind "overworked devs" 9 times out of 10 though, having actually worked this market in the past.

KSP2 is suffering similarly, witn similar accusations of "dev laziness" when in actuality, it's industry wide feature creep to unattainable levels. The devs go home crying, and everyone hates them.

Oh, your that guy from KSP, I'm Arco123 on the forums btw!

 

[kinjx11]

TIM SWEENEY engine 4 again everyone, keep an eye on REDFALL lol

 

[sepheronx]

TIM SWEENEY engine 4 again everyone, keep an eye on REDFALL lol

already trash

Once again - poor performance while looking like a PS4 game.

 

[R-T-B]

Not every game using UE4 has major problems.

ANd not every publisher pushes deadlines to a toxic extent. This is kind of my point.

Oh, your that guy from KSP, I'm Arco123 on the forums btw!

Heh, glad to see someone recognizes me.

That apology message is borderline insulting. Oh corpos, never change.

It made me cringe too. I may sound like a broken record, but pretty sure the devs did not write that.

"people of given profession insist its not the people in their profession that are the problem".

Yes, and people who have no knowledge of the profession insist it's the developers, not the money grubbing publishers fault. I mean maybe once or twice it could be, but it usually isn't. You have no idea how sleep deprivation is practically a way of life in that industry to get a job done. It's not a "lazy" world by any means. I THINK I may have some perspective here. I do believe this career choice has permanently screwed my sleep and wake cycle for life, because "all nighters" were just a thing.

Everyone thinks their lazy because there are indie devs out there putting out better stuff then these multi billion dollar AAA companies can slap together.

Almost like the multibillion dollar companies have something to do with it?

Yeah, they do. Besides that though, the requirments for an indie game are a lot lower, as are the pressures when you are your own publisher. This only supports my argument. It's part of why I no longer work in this industry, as a matter of fact. I quit to go into security consulting after the DART project for KSP, and only do modding as a hobby now. There is some serious coder burn out in that industry because it's not an easy job, nor is it worth what they pay you. You really have to love it.

I'm quite proud of it.

I see you got apprenticeship with Elon (this is a joke, I actually appreciated your code jest).

Dead Island 2 uses UE4 and doesn't have half the problems. Maybe they just did a far better job at optimizing.

The biggest issue today is the lack of precompilation of shaders due to publishers insisting almost manically they rapidly switch to DX12. The switch is not as trivial as the publisher wants to believe. I personally would never attempt it without a massive crew and a lot of time. But hey, what do I know? I'm a code monkey.

 

[cvaldes]

Funny, one might expect that Respawn should understand UE4 by now. After all, they wrote Fallen Order (2019) using the same game engine. It's not like this is a new development environment for them.

And they worked with the same publisher as well. This isn't the first rodeo for either of these clowns.

It really does appear to be a general disinterest in caring about putting out a quality product. A lack of self respect more than anything else.

I'm sure the game will eventually get patched to the point it isn't yet another embarrassing headline on gaming news sites. Seems like an odd way to go about it though. Acquire a pile of mediocre reviews for an unimpressive aggregate score then dig yourself out of the hole you made to scrounge around for more customers, the ones who patiently wait for price cuts.

 

[chrcoluk]

ANd not every publisher pushes deadlines to a toxic extent. This is kind of my point.


Heh, glad to see someone recognizes me.


It made me cringe too. I may sound like a broken record, but pretty sure the devs did not write that.


Yes, and people who have no knowledge of the profession insist it's the developers, not the money grubbing publishers fault. I mean maybe once or twice it could be, but it usually isn't. You have no idea how sleep deprivation is practically a way of life in that industry to get a job done. It's not a "lazy" world by any means. I THINK I may have some perspective here. I do believe this career choice has permanently screwed my sleep and wake cycle for life, because "all nighters" were just a thing.


Almost like the multibillion dollar companies have something to do with it?

Yeah, they do. Besides that though, the requirments for an indie game are a lot lower, as are the pressures when you are your own publisher. This only supports my argument. It's part of why I no longer work in this industry, as a matter of fact. I quit to go into security consulting after the DART project for KSP, and only do modding as a hobby now. There is some serious coder burn out in that industry because it's not an easy job, nor is it worth what they pay you. You really have to love it.


I see you got apprenticeship with Elon (this is a joke, I actually appreciated your code jest).


The biggest issue today is the lack of precompilation of shaders due to publishers insisting almost manically they rapidly switch to DX12. The switch is not as trivial as the publisher wants to believe. I personally would never attempt it without a massive crew and a lot of time. But hey, what do I know? I'm a code monkey.

Can DX12 work with precompiled shaders? if not who thought that was a good idea?

 

[Hawkster222]

Cyberpunk 2077 was the last game I pre ordered, since them I don't even bother playing a game on release date.

It too easy for game devs to cash in and release a rubbish game ... just a pity most of them don't even bother to fix them.

Hence I have huge respect for CD project red and the devs behind No man sky!

 

[rickrod12]

Either my disc is broken or the game is just unplayable. Im at a certain point of the game where I cant even get past because it freezes at the same spot every time. Ive tried resetting my xbox and nothing seems to work. Im at the part were you're being chased by that giant spider droid thing and you have to escape through the desert with Merrin after unlocking the dash ability. I cant even get past half way because my game freezes up every time. I might have to uninstall and reinstall but Im skeptical that might not even work

 

[64K]

The game will be getting it's 4th patch sometime this week (not sure about exact day but it will be this week). Respawn is claiming to be addressing the Traversal Stuttering issue with this patch. Also they are saying that their will be improvements in performance on i7 and i9 CPUs. According to the release notes, Update 4 will update occlusion behavior for raytracing which will reduce idle time stalls. Moreover, it will improve data handling when toggling raytracing, improving non-raytraced performance.

Star Wars Jedi: Survivor Patch 4 Release Notes​

• (PC only) Updated occlusion behavior for raytracing, reducing idle time stalls.
• (PC only) Updated streaming budgets that will help alleviate traversal hitching.
• (PC only) Performance improvements for some VFX.
  • Coming soon to console
• (PC only) Updated data handling when toggling raytracing, improving non-raytraced performance.
• (PS5 only) Fixed an HDR value mismatch that would cause HDR setups to display incorrectly for PS5 users.
• Fixed various save state errors.
• Fixed a streaming issue that causes some streaming scenarios to end on a black screen.
• Fixed an issue where one of the vents did not properly activate in Stone Spires.
• Audio fix for a narrative moment where music was behaving incorrectly.
• Fixed lightsaber marks not displaying correctly in some scenarios.
• Fixed a scenario where the player could enter a progression blocked state in the Lucrehulk.
• Fixed an elevator to prevent the player from falling through it and entering a progression blocked state.
• Fixed a bug where Rayvis would become unbeatable.
• Fixed a severe animation issue that would break a late game narrative sequence.
• Fixed a collision bug where players can get stuck inside a Meditation Chamber.
• Added a note explaining that some of BD-1’s abilities are not available while in combat.
• Improved text scrolling.
• Minor text translation fixes.
• Various crash fixes.

 

[Prima.Vera]

When did games start to cost 70$ ??? WTH?!? They should offer a 50% cash back to all that bought this turd of a game. Seriously.