be quiet! Dark Power PSU Owner Reports Melting of 12VHPWR Connector

[ARF]

It's not an Nvidia issue, the 3rd parties are not following the specs / guidelines for this connector, and Nvidia did not design it, Intel designed it.

You must ask nvidia if it thinks the connector is "ready" for RTX 4090 which can have power consumption up to 1000W and beyond.

 

[STSMiner]

You must ask nvidia if it thinks the connector is "ready" for RTX 4090 which can have power consumption up to 1000W and beyond.

The connector is rated for 600 watts - period, and again, it's has nothing to do with Nvidia, they did not design the connector and it's specs.

If the GPU needs more than 600 watts, they should be using two of these connectors on the PCB (600w x 2 = 1200w), trying to pull over 600w via one connector is asking for trouble.

BTW ..... There is an RTX 4090 with two of these connectors for just that, it's made by GALAX - RTX 4090 Hall of Fame Limited Edition card that uses a custom BIOS.

 

[csendesmark]

What is going on?
We used to have working connectors
those 30~20 years old connectors are still working
I wanna know what went wrong!
Luckily I not planning to have Geforce in near future, at least not for the next 3 years

 

[LabRat 891]

It's not an Nvidia issue, the 3rd parties are not following the specs / guidelines for this connector, and Nvidia did not design it, Intel designed it.View attachment 301512

Intel won't even use the(ir) connector on their own cards!

In seriousness:
Intel was wise to let others 'ride out the teething problems', on their own standard. (Co)Incidentally, the problems have been isolated to Intel's "competitor(s)".

Can't say I feel bad for nVidia, especially since they want to blame the user; ala Apple's: "You're holding it wrong"

On that note:
It's clear that this new connector is far less tolerant to (inevitable) User-Error than PCI-e 8-pin or EPS 8-pin. Blame the user all they want, the rate of failure is higher than any previous standard; *that* 'says something'.


Mostly an aside:
I can't help but feel like there is some 'systemic' problem in the industry at-large. The exact same kinds of 'oversights' are happening in EVs too. Ex. The Mustang Mach-E was recalled for a main battery connector, failing in much the same manner as these +12VHPWR connectors:
"It's rated for +XX% over spec, but they keep melting or trying to catch on fire"

 

[STSMiner]

Intel won't even use the(ir) connector on their own cards!

Intel Data Center Max GPU "Ponte Vecchio" Implements 16-pin 12VHPWR Connector

The swanky new Intel Data center Max GPU "Ponte Vecchio" is the company's first product to implement the 12+4 pin ATX 12VHPWR power connector, which the company helped design as part of the ATX 3.0 spec. The PCI-Express add-in card (AIC) form-factor variant of the GPU comes with a single 12VHPWR...

www.techpowerup.com

As for their current consumer cards, no, no need to, maybe next gen depending on how much power they need.

 

[LabRat 891]

Intel Data Center Max GPU "Ponte Vecchio" Implements 16-pin 12VHPWR Connector

The swanky new Intel Data center Max GPU "Ponte Vecchio" is the company's first product to implement the 12+4 pin ATX 12VHPWR power connector, which the company helped design as part of the ATX 3.0 spec. The PCI-Express add-in card (AIC) form-factor variant of the GPU comes with a single 12VHPWR...

www.techpowerup.com

As for their current consumer cards, no, no need to, maybe next gen depending on how much power they need.

Thank You for linky

Any other cards using this power connector in datacenters?
(I'm curious if the "Pro" sector will start having issues with the connector too?)

 

[STSMiner]

A simple Google search for RTX 30x0 FE, RTX 3090 Ti with the connectors melting returns no results (except for one or two that's using a custom cable from a 3rd party with the wrong female pins in it).

The RTX 3090 FE and RTX 3090 Ti pull as much power as the RTX 4090 does, in fact the RTX 4090 FE and Nvidia partner RTX 4090 cards in most cases pulls less power.

If the RTX 30x0 FE and RTX 3090 Ti did not suffer with this issue ..... what else could it be ?

So why the melting connectors on the RTX 4090 from those like MSI, ASUS, Gigabyte ?
So why the melting connectors on the 3rd party cables connectors (CableMod for example) ?
So why the melting connectors on this 12VHPWR cable that comes with this PSU ?

Whats the common denominator here ?

User error ? Maybe

Wrong female pins used in the connector ? ASTRON vs NTK female pin ??!!??!!

Food for thought ??!!

be quiet! Dark Power PSU Owner Reports Melting of 12VHPWR Connector

I hope this connector will turn out as an engineering mistake... Just make GPU's with 6-8 PIN connectors how it always was, since this is always working properly... What ain't broke don't fix it.. It's time for those big ass ugly/bulky connectors to go, but I'll gladly keep using them until...

www.techpowerup.com

be quiet! Dark Power PSU Owner Reports Melting of 12VHPWR Connector

It dont matter if they sold 100.000 PSU's and only one report, or 10 reports. One is too many knowing it can set your house on fire. These things are extremely sensitive. It does matter every device has a failure rate and return rate. Even a car can randomly be set on fire or even explode...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[ARF]

So why the melting connectors on the RTX 4090 from those like MSI, ASUS, Gigabyte ?
So why the melting connectors on the 3rd party cables connectors (CableMod for example) ?
So why the melting connectors on this 12VHPWR cable that comes with this PSU ?

Food for thought ??!!

Because material is being saved and the design is underengineered. This is not a connector, in fact it acts as some type of a fuse - a fuse is a component used to limit overcurrent. Once overcurrent tries to pass though it, it melts and breaks the circuit.

 

[Chrispy_]

Whoever at Nvidia thought it was a good idea to send 4x the power down a new connector with thinner wires needs to be hung, drawn, and quartered.

8-pin PCIe handles 150W and uses three pairs of wires. That's 50W/wire at 12V, AKA ~4A per wire.
12-pin HPWR handles 600W and uses six pairs of wires. That's 100W/wire at 12V, AKA ~8A per wire AND the wires and connectors are smaller.

Only a total idiot would approve such a downgrade.
Only a complicit industry of idiots would go along with such a stupid decision.
Long before Nvidia existed as a company, there were standards, wikis, AWGs and other info about how much current a wire could handle in the real world; 12V HPWR violates all of them.

OH LOOK EVERYTHING'S MELTING. WOW, I DIDN'T SEE THAT HAPPENING!
/s

 

[STSMiner]

Sigh !

Both of you are trying to blame Nvidia here for something they did wrong which is not the case here.

3rd parties are not following the specs / guidelines laid out by Intel - they designed this new connector and it's specs, no one else.

Nvidia followed these specs laid out by Intel from the get go with the RTX 30x0 FE cards that use this 12VHPWR connector - NONE, I repeat NONE of these cards suffered with this melting issue and none of their RTX 4090 FE cards either (except for under test conditions as seen / conducted by Gamers Nexus in their video).

3rd parties are not following these specs, they are using a sub-par component, this being the female pin made by ASTRON.

If your going to build a Lamborghini with sub-par components in it your the one at fault here for not following the specs / guidelines laid out by the developer / designer of this connector.

 

[Chrispy_]

Sigh !

Both of you are trying to blame Nvidia here for something they did wrong which is not the case here.

3rd parties are not following the specs / guidelines laid out by Intel - they designed this new connector and it's specs, no one else.

Nvidia followed these specs laid out by Intel from the get go with the RTX 30x0 FE cards that use this 12VHPWR connector - NONE, I repeat NONE of these cards suffered with this melting issue and none of their RTX 4090 FE cards either (except for under test conditions as seen by Gamers Nexus in their video).

3rd parties are not following these specs, they are using a sub-par component, this being the female pin made by ASTRON.

If your going to build a Lamborghini with sub-par components in it your the one at fault here for not following the specs / guidelines laid out by the developer / designer of this connector.

To counter that, the overwhelming majority of PSUs, cables, and GPUs are made in China or Taiwan where a margin for corner-cutting should be presumed essential.
Intel's 12V HPWR connector leaves ZERO margin for error, despite the manufacturing conformity and adherence to standards being awful where 99% of the hardware is actually made.

8-pin PCIe is overkill in the spec, because in the real world, manufacturers of connectors and cables are penny-pinching crooks who cut corners to make more profit. The 6-pin and 8-pin PCIe standard account for that with big fat safety margins.

The mistake isn't with manufacturers not meeting spec; The mistake is in expecting an industry with 30 years of habitual corner-cutting to suddenly not cut corners. The spec should have headroom in it to account for this and it simply doesn't.

 

[STSMiner]

When it comes to high amp requirements for a device to work properly there should not be any corner-cutting with the power delivery - period, this includes the cable(s) and connectors, sub-par connectors should not be used here, you would not do that with a wall socket in your home and risk a fire.

 

[ARF]

8-pin PCIe is overkill in the spec

I guess this thinking lead to the current disaster. Rule number 1 - when you work with electricity, there is never "overkill" safety.

 

[Sora]

The connector is rated for 600 watts - period, and again, it's has nothing to do with Nvidia, they did not design the connector and it's specs.

Rated for 600, tested above 1500(no failure)

Intel won't even use the(ir) connector on their own cards!

Intel is using 12vHPWR on their HPG units, your argument is unfounded as Intel simply hasn't got a consumer card that can't be powered with the 8pin+slot.

 

[dgianstefani]

Aris, who used to do the PSU reviews here, weighs in.

 

[STSMiner]

Aris, who used to do the PSU reviews here, weighs in.

One off experiment under test conditions proves nothing here, I'm not convinced.

Show me a real case (end user case) where they have a cable that uses the NTK female pins with the connector melting.

 

[dgianstefani]

One off experiment under test conditions proves nothing here, I'm not convinced.

Show me a real case (end user case) where they have a cable that uses the NTK female pins with the connector melting.

Show me more than one person in the wild having issues, that can't be proven aren't from user error.

It's much more likely this person didn't fully plug the connector in, as was exhaustively proven to be the cause of the previous "issues".

NVIDIA sells ~85-90% of the consumer GPUs on the market, many of which have this standard connector for both last and this generation of GPUs, yet this is proof of a design flaw? One person on reddit?

 

[STSMiner]

Nvidia don't use the ASTRON female pin in their connectors for the RTX 30x0 FE line or the RTX 3090 Ti or the RTX 4090 FE, they use the NTK female pin (the ones I've seen) .... I've not managed to find a single case of these with melted connectors using the NTK female pins in the connector.

Yet, here we are with RTX 4090 cards from Nvidia partners (MSI,ASUS,Gigabyte etc) using the ASTRON female pins failing.
Same with the 3rd party cables using the ASTRON female pins.
And now a PSU using the ASTRON female pins in the 12VHPWR cable (the connector) that comes with the PSU melting the connector.

Zotac's RTX 3090 Ti AMP HOLOBLACK - the cable that came with it also uses the NTK female pins in the 12VHPWR connector (1st gen connector without the sense pins), I have one of these cards here.

There has not been any reports of these melting, No RTX 3090 Ti FE and not even the other Nvidia partner RTX 3090 Ti cards, as I assume that they are all using the same NTK female pins in the 12VHPWR connector on the cable that came with the GPU.

 

[evernessince]

Show me more than one person in the wild having issues, that can't be proven aren't from user error.

It's much more likely this person didn't fully plug the connector in, as was exhaustively proven to be the cause of the previous "issues".

Yeah, definitely not enough reports to say GPU side burning is an issue yet. More people need to get their hands on ATX 3.0 PSUs and then we may or may not know if it's an issue.

My bigger concern would be the fact that he got the cable to burn on the GPU side at 650W nearly instantly. This indicates that you could lower the wattage and increase the time under stress to reproduce the same burning. Most 4090s consume around 490 - 500w under full load and the higher end OC models consume more than that. Pretty worrying for anyone OCing or running one of the faster cards out of the box. Also, considering that Arris tests in a controlled environment, I suspect that higher ambient temperatures would also play a small role. It's extremely problematic that the safety margin is so small for this connector due to all the potential variables. I believe GN said something about being unable to get the connector to burn up aside from half seating it but I really wish they had published what didn't work as this video seems to contradict the idea that it takes an unreasonable wattage to burn the connector. If anything it only make me more interested in seeing a video detail the exact real world tolerances of the connector under varying test conditions.

NVIDIA sells ~85-90% of the consumer GPUs on the market, many of which have this standard connector for both last and this generation of GPUs, yet this is proof of a design flaw? One person on reddit?

The 3000 series and 4000 series have different connectors. The 3000 series connector doesn't include sense pins and if you look at the pin design there's a single contiguous piece of metal with only one small gap, meaning it's significantly more resistant against spreading. No one was reporting this issue with the 3000 series, only the 4000 series and specifically with the 4090. The only card in Nvidia's 4000 series line-up that butts close to the connector's maximum supported wattage.

In addition, the 4000 series has yet to saturate the market and the sales of this generation are very poor. You are implying that said connector has significant market saturation but that isn't anywhere near the case. Mind you it should really only be an issue for 4090, data from 4080s, 4070 tis, 4070s, ect is kind of irrelevant as those cards are well under the safety limit for this connector. At least it should be, if those lower end cards are having issues with the connector there'd be bigger issues at hand.

 

[arni-gx]

Nvidia don't use the ASTRON female pin in their connectors for the RTX 30x0 FE line or the RTX 3090 Ti or the RTX 4090 FE, they use the NTK female pin (the ones I've seen) .... I've not managed to find a single case of these with melted connectors using the NTK female pins in the connector.

Yet, here we are with RTX 4090 cards from Nvidia partners (MSI,ASUS,Gigabyte etc) using the ASTRON female pins failing.
Same with the 3rd party cables using the ASTRON female pins.
And now a PSU using the ASTRON female pins in the 12VHPWR cable (the connector) that comes with the PSU melting the connector.

Zotac's RTX 3090 Ti AMP HOLOBLACK - the cable that came with it also uses the NTK female pins in the 12VHPWR connector (1st gen connector without the sense pins), I have one of these cards here.

There has not been any reports of these melting, No RTX 3090 Ti FE and not even the other Nvidia partner RTX 3090 Ti cards, as I assume that they are all using the same NTK female pins in the 12VHPWR connector on the cable that came with the GPU.

View attachment 301656

yup, its very weird, that all rtx 3090 ti 24gb series, have never ever reporting about melting the connector 16pin.....

 

[STSMiner]

yup, its very weird, that all rtx 3090 ti 24gb series, have never ever reporting about melting the connector 16pin.....

Not just the RTX 3090 Ti, but also the RTX 3080 FE / 80 Ti FE and 90 FE and those RTX 4090 FE cards where the cable that comes with them has the NTK female pins in the connector, these are all classed as high power draw cards.

 

[DBGT]

Maybe it's time these manufactures was told to get up to speed and use the correct female pins in their connectors (the cable).

You can clearly see that the female pins used in the OP's post are the wrong type to use here.

OP's connector - female pins with dimples, 12v burnt pins will have these dimples as well.
View attachment 301284

View attachment 301278

Intel Readies ATX 12VHPWR Connector Revision to Address Improper-Contact Fire Hazards

Intel is preparing a revision to the design of the 12+4 pin ATX 12VHPWR power connector, specifically its male connector, to improve connector mating and retention; and to minimize a potential fire hazard asiring from improper retention or mating. The male connector design revision will retain...

www.techpowerup.com

(Note to Techpowerup editor - you need to proof read this article and correct it, male / female in wrong places.)

Intel recommends "4 Spring" 12VHPWR power plug instead "3 Dimple" design - VideoCardz.com

Intel wants everyone to use a 4 Spring design of 12VHPWR connector The company has recommendations for the high-wattage power cable for graphics cards. 12VHPWR power cable recommendation by Intel, Source: Intel With the introduction of the GeForce RTX 40 series, one topic took the headlines for...

videocardz.com

Are you saying that it is be quiet fault?

Not surprised at all that this is happening with a beQuiet PSU. That company produces nothing but garbage and is one of the most overrated gigs in hardware land.

Source?

 

[STSMiner]

Are you saying that it is be quiet fault?

Do some research and come to your own conclusion, I'm just throwing out info there to make people aware that the ASTRON female pins (the ones with the dimples) are not fit for the purpose for carrying 300 watts plus to power these GPU's without melting the connectors, be it the PSU end or the GPU end.

 

[DBGT]

Do some research and come to your own conclusion, I'm just throwing out info there to make people aware that the ASTRON female pins (the ones with the dimples) are not fit for the purpose for carrying 300 watts plus to power these GPU's without melting the connectors, be it the PSU end or the GPU end.

If that the case, then we should see hundreds if not thousands of the same problem appears to the user with the same PSU.