Leaked Flyer Hints at Possible AMD Ryzen 9000 Series Powered by Zen 5

[fevgatos]

You said mobile Ryzen is better. Why are 8 cores the top of the line, then?

The 7945hx is 16core but what difference does that make? Whatever man, it's apparent that the mobiles are better, don't know why this is even a debate

 

[AusWolf]

The 7945hx is 16core but what difference does that make? Whatever man, it's apparent that the mobiles are better, don't know why this is even a debate

And that's not a chiplet design at all.

I still don't get why you think it's better, or even if it is, how that makes the desktop parts "leftovers".

 

[fevgatos]

And that's not a chiplet design at all.
View attachment 320975
I still don't get why you think it's better, or even if it is, how that makes the desktop parts "leftovers".

The 7940hs is the best 8core zen 4 cpu, it has a very low power draw in everything and a beast of an igpu. It's just unreasonable to suggest otherwise but whatever. If someone doesn't mean his cpu pulling 40w for doing the simplest of tasks then I guess it doesn't matter to them

 

[bug]

The 7940hs is the best 8core zen 4 cpu, it has a very low power draw in everything and a beast of an igpu. It's just unreasonable to suggest otherwise but whatever. If someone doesn't mean his cpu pulling 40w for doing the simplest of tasks then I guess it doesn't matter to them

Yes, having low power draw in idle is important and yes, there are those who don't care about it.
But, for crying out loud, idle power draw is not a metric that defines whether a CPU is good or not. At least not on the desktop.

 

[AusWolf]

The 7940hs is the best 8core zen 4 cpu, it has a very low power draw in everything and a beast of an igpu. It's just unreasonable to suggest otherwise but whatever. If someone doesn't mean his cpu pulling 40w for doing the simplest of tasks then I guess it doesn't matter to them

Better iGPU, sure, but if you think it's faster in games with a 4 GHz base clock and 16 MB L3 cache than the 7800X3D that can keep a flat 4.8 GHz all day long with 96 MB L3, you're either drugged or delusional.

I have no idea where you got that 40 W number from, but like it's been said many times: idle power consumption is not the first most important metric of a desktop CPU, and not even the second (or third).

 

[fevgatos]

Yes, having low power draw in idle is important and yes, there are those who don't care about it.
But, for crying out loud, idle power draw is not a metric that defines whether a CPU is good or not. At least not on the desktop.

It's not just idle we are talking about here, it's for every single simple task like browsing the web, using excel etc.

Of course it's not the only metric but we are talking about similar cpus otherwise, performance is almost identical, the only difference between a zen 4 desktop and a zen 4 mobile is that the mobile has a much faster gpu and way lower power draw.

Better iGPU, sure, but if you think it's faster in games with a 4 GHz base clock and 16 MB L3 cache than the 7800X3D that can keep a flat 4.8 GHz all day long with 96 MB, you're either drugged or delusional.

The 7800x 3d doesn't have a base clockspeed of 4.8 ghz though...

I have no idea where you got that 40 W number from, but like it's been said many times: idle power consumption is not the first most important metric of a desktop CPU, and not even the second (or third).

I told you, just start browsing the web and see your peak power draw. It's going to be over 30w

 

[AusWolf]

I told you, just start browsing the web and see your peak power draw. It's going to be over 30w

I'm here, typing this message in Chrome, while HWinfo reports 25 W total package power draw (that is with 6000 MHz RAM, 3000 MHz UMC and 1.2 VSOC which is all above AMD reference spec).
I told you, I have no idea where you got that 40 W figure from.

The 7800x 3d doesn't have a base clockspeed of 4.8 ghz though...

No, but it keeps it flat even in the most demanding workloads, like a Cinebench all-core test. In gaming and light tasks, it's closer to 5 GHz.

Of course it's not the only metric but we are talking about similar cpus otherwise, performance is almost identical, the only difference between a zen 4 desktop and a zen 4 mobile is that the mobile has a much faster gpu and way lower power draw.

A mobile chip has a lower power draw than a desktop one? Who's seen such outrage before?

Are you suggesting that the 13900HX is better than the 13900K due to its lower power draw? I guess Intel doesn't care about desktop, either.

 

[bug]

It's not just idle we are talking about here, it's for every single simple task like browsing the web, using excel etc.

Are you sure about that?

I mean, you can (and should) power-constrain the 13900k, but when you keep it under 7950X3D's level, it also starts to lose quite a bit of performance.
And look at that "tiny" 7800X3D...

 

[fevgatos]

I'm here, typing this message in Chrome, while HWinfo reports 25 W total package power draw (that is with 6000 MHz RAM, 3000 MHz UMC and 1.2 VSOC which is all above AMD reference spec).
I told you, I have no idea where you got that 40 W figure from.

Because that's not browsing, you are sitting on a static screen. Dude... Come on. I know how much it pulls.

Are you suggesting that the 13900HX is better than the 13900K due to its lower power draw? I guess Intel doesn't care about desktop, either.

It does not pull less wattage though. They are both below 10w while browsing. They consume the same amount of wattage for the same amount of work, which is not the case with the zen cpus.

Are you sure about that?

I mean, you can (and should) power-constrain the 13900k, but when you keep it under 7950X3D's level, it also starts to lose quite a bit of performance.
And look at that "tiny" 7800X3D...

The graph is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. Let me repeat it for the nth time, for simple tasks like browsing the web the desktop zen 4 cpus consume up to 3-4 times more wattage than mobile. I can't simplify it more than that

 

[bug]

The graph is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. Let me repeat it for the nth time, for simple tasks like browsing the web the desktop zen 4 cpus consume up to 3-4 times more wattage than mobile. I can't simplify it more than that

You could try to come up with some evidence.
But again, it's still irrelevant. You're focusing your attention on a particular aspect of a CPU, yet insist on drawing conclusions about its overall viability.

To me, this is really simple: Intel goes overboard with default power draw. But once you get that out of the way, there's no bad buy in either camp, they pretty evenly matched. Most of the buying decisions will come down to which side gets you a more featured motherboard within the same price range (or whether you already have the mobo). Or brand loyalty. Or, in the case of Intel, you get to reuse some DDR4 you might have readily available.

 

[fevgatos]

You could try to come up with some evidence.
But again, it's still irrelevant. You're focusing your attention on a particular aspect of a CPU, yet insist on drawing conclusions about its overall viability.

To me, this is really simple: Intel goes overboard with default power draw. But once you get that out of the way, there's no bad buy in either camp, they pretty evenly matched. Most of the buying decisions will come down to which side gets you a more featured motherboard within the same price range (or whether you already have the mobo). Or brand loyalty. Or, in the case of Intel, you get to reuse some DDR4 you might have readily available.

I don't know why people repeatedly try to bring intel into this. I don't care about intel, it's not the point..I'm strictly comparing zen desktop to zen mobile.

I have a bunch of desktop zens and mobile zens, plus some intel desktops. Which one do you think draws by far the most amount of power just sitting there doing spreadsheets or browsing the web? And the difference isn't something like 10 - 20 or even 50% which you can argue is irrelevant. We are talking about 3 or 4 times more power. To me that's unacceptable.

 

[Arco]

You could try to come up with some evidence.
But again, it's still irrelevant. You're focusing your attention on a particular aspect of a CPU, yet insist on drawing conclusions about its overall viability.

To me, this is really simple: Intel goes overboard with default power draw. But once you get that out of the way, there's no bad buy in either camp, they pretty evenly matched. Most of the buying decisions will come down to which side gets you a more featured motherboard within the same price range (or whether you already have the mobo). Or brand loyalty. Or, in the case of Intel, you get to reuse some DDR4 you might have readily available.

I went AMD for the platform longevity and the fact it is all the same core type. Very important for server loads and even more so for game servers.

 

[AusWolf]

Because that's not browsing, you are sitting on a static screen. Dude... Come on. I know how much it pulls.

What is it, then? If doing stuff in Chrome is not browsing, then what is?

It does not pull less wattage though. They are both below 10w while browsing. They consume the same amount of wattage for the same amount of work, which is not the case with the zen cpus.

A mobile chip drawing up to 250-odd Watts? I don't think so.

I don't know why people repeatedly try to bring intel into this. I don't care about intel, it's not the point..I'm strictly comparing zen desktop to zen mobile.

I have a bunch of desktop zens and mobile zens, plus some intel desktops. Which one do you think draws by far the most amount of power just sitting there doing spreadsheets or browsing the web? And the difference isn't something like 10 - 20 or even 50% which you can argue is irrelevant. We are talking about 3 or 4 times more power. To me that's unacceptable.

I don't know why you're comparing a mobile chip to a desktop one, and I don't know why a ~20 W idle power consumption is such a big deal for you, but guess what. The vast majority of people don't care (whether they're using Intel or AMD).

 

[fevgatos]

What is it, then? If doing stuff in Chrome is not browsing, then what is?


A mobile chip drawing up to 250-odd Watts? I don't think so.

Do you understand what similar power draw for similar work means? When the 13900k pulls 250 watts it's not doing the same work as a 13900hx, the first is much faster. That is exactly not the case with desktop zen 4, when both are browsing the web the desktop part consumes 3-4 times more watts.

I ddon't know why you're comparing a mobile chip to a desktop one, and I don't know why a ~20 W idle power consumption is such a big deal for you, but guess what. The vast majority of people don't care (whether they're using Intel or AMD).

There is a difference between not caring and pretending it's not the case. It is the case, you just don't care. Great, then why are you quoting me 500 times to convince me? What is your goal? Desktop zen is a worse version of the mobile, pulling 300% more watts for simple tasks. That is a fact, regardless of whether you care or not.

I mean you said you are pulling 25w writing this post. Wanna know how much my zen mobile pulls for that? Divide by 10...

 

[AusWolf]

Do you understand what similar power draw for similar work means? When the 13900k pulls 250 watts it's not doing the same work as a 13900hx, the first is much faster.

Do you think desktop Zen with higher clocks and more cache isn't faster than mobile? Make some sense, man!

There is a difference between not caring and pretending it's not the case. It is the case, you just don't care. Great, then why are you quoting me 500 times to convince me? What is your goal? Desktop zen is a worse version of the mobile, pulling 300% more watts for simple tasks. That is a fact, regardless of whether you care or not.

Just read back a bit: idle power draw is not an important factor on desktop, therefore desktop is not a worse version of mobile. It's that simple.

It's like saying that my bicycle is a better version of your car, because it eats less fuel. Complete nonsense.

Desktop and mobile are built with completely different purposes in mind. Comparing them is like apples to oranges.

 

[fevgatos]

Do you think desktop Zen with higher clocks and more cache isn't faster than mobile? Make some sense, man!

When browsing the web, no it isn't.

Just read back a bit: idle power draw is not an important factor on desktop, therefore desktop is not a worse version of mobile. It's that simple.

Again, we are not just talking about idle, but still, it's irrelevant. It's even more important than desktop cause that's the one you might have open 24/7 as a steaming etc device. YOU might not find it important, but I do. If I have 2 similar cpus and the only difference is power draw at simple tasks, yes, Id consider the one that has less power draw better. Not even a contest.

 

[AusWolf]

When browsing the web, no it isn't.

Again, we are not just talking about idle, but still, it's irrelevant. It's even more important than desktop cause that's the one you might have open 24/7 as a steaming etc device. YOU might not find it important, but I do. If I have 2 similar cpus and the only difference is power draw at simple tasks, yes, Id consider the one that has less power draw better. Not even a contest.

You're confusing your own personal expectations with objective reality, you know that, right?

If the only thing you care about is idle power consumption, then of course you'll buy the CPU with a lower idle power consumption! No one has questioned that. But it doesn't make that CPU objectively better.

 

[fevgatos]

You're confusing your own personal expectations with objective reality, you know that, right?

If the only thing you care about is idle power consumption, then of course you'll buy the CPU with a lower idle power consumption! No one has questioned that. But it doesn't make that CPU objectively better.

You keep talking about idle power draw.... I'm outta here, it's pointless.

 

[AusWolf]

You keep talking about idle power draw.... I'm outta here, it's pointless.

Because you still haven't defined what "browsing" means to you. I told you that my 7800X3D eats 22-25 W while writing a message here in Chrome, but you keep ignoring it. Instead, you keep coming up with weirder and weirder scenarios just to make sure you're proving a point, when in fact you aren't. 98% of desktop users still don't care about idle/browsing power consumption, and those that do will not buy a high-end CPU.

Edit: I started vigorously scrolling, maybe that satisfies your definition of browsing... whoa, package power rose by a whole 2 Watts!!!

 

[Vayra86]

I will take the advice though. Im taking sides with the winner. I´m now a fanboi of Cognitive dissonance. Sure seems to winning these days.

Hehe, yeah, until it doesn't, and you get the so called reality check. I'm more a fanboi of common sense and plausibility.

 

[fevgatos]

my 7800X3D eats 22-25 W while writing a message here in Chrome, but you keep ignoring it

And wanna guess how much a mobile zen pulls? Or is that not important to you?

 

[AusWolf]

And wanna guess how much a mobile zen pulls? Or is that not important to you?

See a quote from the same post you just replied to:

98% of desktop users still don't care about idle/browsing power consumption, and those that do will not buy a high-end CPU.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[kapone32]

Do you know how to tell you are enjoying your PC? When the performance is so good you spend more time Gaming than you should. Arguing about current power draw on a CPU that could be years away or a mobile part locked to 45 Watts seems foolish. If anything all this thread does is galvanize the thought process that once you have bought into AM5 you are free to just do CPU upgrades (for the next 3 years). That is the key and what makes AMD so great, the flexibility. How many of us are holding off on those delicious handhelds to get a A620 or B650 budget build with an APU that can have you enjoying your Steam Library on your 4K TV at 1080P?

 

[bug]

I don't know why people repeatedly try to bring intel into this. I don't care about intel, it's not the point..I'm strictly comparing zen desktop to zen mobile.

I have a bunch of desktop zens and mobile zens, plus some intel desktops. Which one do you think draws by far the most amount of power just sitting there doing spreadsheets or browsing the web? And the difference isn't something like 10 - 20 or even 50% which you can argue is irrelevant. We are talking about 3 or 4 times more power. To me that's unacceptable.

Yet somehow, from all that you infer AMD sucks on the desktop. People have been showing you it's about as good as Intel is. So it doesn't suck. By your own admission, it only supposedly suck in one particular scenario.

 

[Tek-Check]

Now it seems Zen 4 desktop models are 7000. Some chips including desktop APU's are supposedly 8000 series and now Zen 5 is 9000 series?

- naming of mobile SKUs is linked to calendar year, so 8000 next year is fine - 8000G, 8030, 8040 and 8050 if released by December.
- if Zen5 desktop CPUs are released in 2024, it could easily be 9000 if they continue to apply desktop naming - 5000 in 2020, 7000 in 2022 and 9000 in 2024.
The leak is not from AMD, but from the producer of terribly optimized Aurora PC systems, as reviewed by Gamers Nexus.

I have a bunch of desktop zens and mobile zens, plus some intel desktops. Which one do you think draws by far the most amount of power just sitting there doing spreadsheets or browsing the web? And the difference isn't something like 10 - 20 or even 50% which you can argue is irrelevant. We are talking about 3 or 4 times more power. To me that's unacceptable.

Any measurements? Did you read TPU review of 7800X3D?
X3D SKUs are super power efficient and use FAR less power in ST, MT, applications and gaming than all Raptor Lake CPUs in their category.

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review - The Best Gaming CPU

AMD's Ryzen 7 7800X3D is everything that gamers want: eight fast cores, in a single CCD, with 3D VCache stacked on top at a price point of $450. In our review we can confirm that 7800X3D is indeed the fastest gaming CPU available, beating Intel's 13900K and even the 7950X3D.

www.techpowerup.com

In multi-threaded power efficiency, Ryzen 5000 and 7000 CPUs occupy 8 out of first 10 spots.
What are we talking about here?