AMD Ryzen 7 8700G Loves Memory Overclocking, which Vastly Favors its iGPU Performance

[Beginner Macro Device]

FYI, the 12100F will bottleneck even a 7600 XT

Not everywhere. AAA games at 1440p onwards will have 7600 XT as the main bottleneck.
Competitive gamers don't look at such CPUs. They buy i9s and Ryzen 9s.

Intel will have switched 5 sockets

Not a problem. I upgrade my CPUs about once per 8 years and by that time anything becomes e-waste. I will buy a new PC regardless of what I bought today. Yes, it's nice that AMD support their platform for more extended periods of time but this only matters for those who are in a hurry. I take it slow and steady. I don't upgrade until my PC feels like ancient trash.

Anyway, even in Russia, an i5-12400F + 16 GB + RTX 3060 Ti build costs roughly the same as 8700G + 32 GB DDR5. Not much worse CPU speed, leagues ahead GPU speed.

Just imagine it is 2026 and you have saved $40 a week.

How? By having what, a 5 W less daily power consumption? Your power providers need a truckload of anti-greed pills if that's the case.

LMAO, Quebectricity is almost for free.

 

[kapone32]

How? By having what, a 5 W less daily power consumption? Your power providers need a truckload of anti-greed pills if that's the case.

Give me a break. Are you telling me that a DGPU only consumes 5 Watts. Saving on not having to buy a GPU if the APU is capable of 1080P Gaming that is one mitigating factor. The other is GPUs today seem to jump very high in performance improvement with every refresh. The top end of AMD and Nvidia is much faster than previous Gen. Though you may not understand that this is good for the PC Community. It allows the next generation of Gamers to come into the ecosystem and lowers the entry fee for next Gen performance potential.

 

[marios15]

The 8600G is 100$ cheaper, supports all kinds of codecs encoding/decoding, can be overclocked, gives you 2 more cores which destroy the slow 12100F in any productivity or even multi-tasking, matches or exceeds the 12400 in IPC and brings you to DDR5 platform where a possible upgrade path is there for the next 4-6 years, you can put the 100$ into a larger NVMe or more RAM or both

Additional cost savings:
CPU power is so low, that it doesn't matter the cooling solution
Total system power is <200W, since no GPU, any PSU/case is good. Such low power means any motherboard will do, you just pick features.

The cost savings keep piling up

 

[TumbleGeorge]

Give me a break. Are you telling me that a DGPU only consumes 5 Watts

In Russia(Moscow) electricity costs 0.064€ per kilowatt, or ~6¢. Or ~5p(Great Britain pence)

 

[Beginner Macro Device]

Are you telling me that a DGPU only consumes 5 Watts

According to HWUB, the 8700G system is idling at 40 W and gaming at 150 W.
The i3-12100 + RX 6600 XT system is idling at 40 W and gaming at 240 W. If you care to cripple the gaming performance the way it consumes 150 W it will still be faster than 8700G.

To save $40 a week in Canada given the 90 W difference and median 0.2 CAD a kW, you need to play 2222 hours weekly. That's a little bit impossible.

Saving on not having to buy a GPU

Like I elaborately showed, savings are negative. Traditional CPUs are MUCH cheaper, so is DDR4. 12100+6700 XT isn't much more expensive than 8700G. Sometimes, it's even cheaper. 6700 XT also allows you for some 4K gaming. What can this iGPU do? Die at 1080p? Yeah, of course.

The 8600G is 100$ cheaper, supports all kinds of codecs encoding/decoding, can be overclocked, gives you 2 more cores which destroy the slow 12100F in any productivity or even multi-tasking, matches or exceeds the 12400 in IPC and brings you to DDR5 platform where a possible upgrade path is there for the next 4-6 years, you can put the 100$ into a larger NVMe or more RAM or both

You forget the fact you're paying roughly the same for a 8600G as you'd pay for 12400F+MB+RAM combined. 12100F+MB+RAM is cheaper than this APU alone. Factor more expensive DDR5 and you get a vastly different price tag. And 12700K laughs at 8600G's IPC and overclocking thanks to having more real cores and also having "fake" E-cores. It's also cheaper.

 

[kapone32]

Like I elaborately showed, savings are negative. Traditional CPUs are MUCH cheaper, so is DDR4. 12100+6700 XT isn't much more expensive than 8700G. Sometimes, it's even cheaper. 6700 XT also allows you for some 4K gaming. What can this iGPU do? Die at 1080p? Yeah, of course.
.

Do you not understand that the AM5 will be supported until 2025 at least. Do you see we are already at DDR5?

 

[Beginner Macro Device]

Do you not understand that the AM5 will be supported until 2025 at least

How is this relevant if we're talking gaming? Any top-tier CPU, be it AM5 or LGA1700-based CPU, will handle gaming just fine till early 2030s. Intel platform allows you to upgrade later because you initially have more horsepower. AMD platform allows you to upgrade without changing the motherboard because of longer support. I don't see how one option is superior to another. Pick your poison.

Do you see we are already at DDR5?

I also see it doesn't matter in sub 500 USD dGPU gaming. When it will matter all existing CPUs will be obsolete.

 

[kapone32]

How is this relevant if we're talking gaming? Any top-tier CPU, be it AM5 or LGA1700-based CPU, will handle gaming just fine till early 2030s. Intel platform allows you to upgrade later because you initially have more horsepower. AMD platform allows you to upgrade without changing the motherboard because of longer support. I don't see how one option is superior to another. Pick your poison.

I also see it doesn't matter in sub 500 USD dGPU gaming. When it will matter all existing CPUs will be obsolete.

LMAO I guess you are ok with the current prices. GPUs are way overpriced. You can postulate all you want but there are 2 things that are true. This is an APU that smokes any 1700 CPU you could buy in IGPU Gaming.

1. AMD APUs have a real market to innovate not just because they basically were the first to succeed with a PC based handheld but now Intel have entered that market.

2. If AM4 is anything to go buy it makes complete sense to get into AM5. The current and next Gen of consoles will have AMD hardware if 2023 Console ports are anything to go by RDNA3 is the way to go for Gaming.

At the end of the day there will be plenty of people that agree with my position and get these on day one. Your opinion is appreciated but not relevant to the success of this product. Just imagine it's 2025 and now DDR5 7200 is $100 for 32GB and you can buy that over the 6000 MHZ that you have to get a noticeable upgrade in performance. This is not 2020.

 

[Beginner Macro Device]

LMAO I guess you are ok with the current prices.

More okay than ever before. GPUs are overpriced, no shit sherlock, yet they are the least overpriced historically.

This is an APU that smokes any 1700 CPU you could buy in IGPU Gaming.

It's like bragging you outpaced a stone. Bravo! Intel LGA1700 iGPUs aren't intended to use in gaming, they provide value by QSV and video output.

1. AMD APUs have a real market to innovate not just because they basically were the first to succeed with a PC based handheld but now Intel have entered that market.

This is "I need my PC to be as tiny as possible" territory and I explicitly stated that this case makes these APUs more than valid. You argue with the person who agrees with you.

2. If AM4 is anything to go buy it makes complete sense to get into AM5. The current and next Gen of consoles will have AMD hardware if 2023 Console ports are anything to go by RDNA3 is the way to go for Gaming.

Let's see...

A decent AM4 motherboard is $80.
A Ryzen 5600 CPU is $110.
A kit of two reasonably fast 8 GB DDR4 sticks is $50.
CPU cooling will resound $30.
A reasonable PSU will cost you $60.
An RX 6700 XT will be about $350.

Total: 680 USD.

A decent AM5 motherboard is $150.
A Ryzen 8700G CPU is $330.
A kit of two fast 16 GB DDR5 sticks is $150.
CPU cooling is $30.
A PSU will cost you $40.

Total: 700 USD.

I don't see how this APU will compete with 6700 XT in games. I don't see how 6 cores of 5600 will be worse than the iGPU of 8700G. Buying a CPU+dGPU is win-win if we only count $$$. I do not, I repeat, I do not argue with these APUs being a cool thing and making a lot of sense in limited space scenarios. But for gamers who are on budget, they are bad value.

 

[kapone32]

More okay than ever before. GPUs are overpriced, no shit sherlock, yet they are the least overpriced historically.

It's like bragging you outpaced a stone. Bravo! Intel LGA1700 iGPUs aren't intended to use in gaming, they provide value by QSV and video output.

This is "I need my PC to be as tiny as possible" territory and I explicitly stated that this case makes these APUs more than valid. You argue with the person who agrees with you.

Let's see...

A decent AM4 motherboard is $80.
A Ryzen 5600 CPU is $110.
A kit of two reasonably fast 8 GB DDR4 sticks is $50.
CPU cooling will resound $30.
A reasonable PSU will cost you $60.
An RX 6700 XT will be about $350.

Total: 680 USD.

A decent AM5 motherboard is $150.
A Ryzen 8700G CPU is $330.
A kit of two fast 16 GB DDR5 sticks is $150.
CPU cooling is $30.
A PSU will cost you $40.

Total: 700 USD.

I don't see how this APU will compete with 6700 XT in games. I don't see how 6 cores of 5600 will be worse than the iGPU of 8700G. Buying a CPU+dGPU is win-win if we only count $$$. I do not, I repeat, I do not argue with these APUs being a cool thing and making a lot of sense in limited space scenarios. But for gamers who are on budget, they are bad value.

I already found 32 GB DDR5 6000 RAM kits for $124 Canadian
You can buy a 450 Watt PSU for this so try again
It comes with a cooler

I priced out a case, MB and RAM at $398 Canadian. The cheapest 6700XT in Canada is $439. AM5 is new AM4 is old.

 

[Beginner Macro Device]

You can buy a 450 Watt PSU for this so try again

Yeah, that's why I rated it 20 dollars cheaper than the PSU for a dGPU rig.

I already found 32 GB DDR5 6000 RAM kits for $124 Canadian

Good for you but I'm talking really fast (7500 MT/s with reasonable timings) RAM you can realistically obtain everywhere, not only in Canada. At 6000 MT/s, it's the RX 6400 performance territory. And, y'know...

It comes with a cooler

Okay, it makes for a 30 USD discount. Now your APU system is 10 dollars cheaper but it's still 2 to 4 times slower in 90+ % of games. You recently considered a 35% uplift from 6800 XT to 7900 XT as massive enough to upgrade. What about a triple figure uplift? It's even enough to convince a stubborn guy like me. Gimme that.

 

[kapone32]

Yeah, that's why I rated it 20 dollars cheaper than the PSU for a dGPU rig.

Good for you but I'm talking really fast (7500 MT/s with reasonable timings) RAM you can realistically obtain everywhere, not only in Canada. At 6000 MT/s, it's the RX 6400 performance territory. And, y'know...

Okay, it makes for a 30 USD discount. Now your APU system is 10 dollars cheaper but it's still 2 to 4 times slower in 90+ % of games. You recently considered a 35% uplift from 6800 XT to 7900 XT as massive enough to upgrade. What about a triple figure uplift? It's even enough to convince a stubborn guy like me. Gimme that.

Yes that is my main rig and I love it. I already stated that the 8700G (for now) will run a Dead Retro Console drive. Please tell me that you need all of that for that, Once I decide that I may want to add a DGPU so be it. I could also replace when the next chip comes out.

 

[sLowEnd]

I'm firmly in the "if you want cheap gaming get a cheap dGPU like an RX6600 + a cheap CPU like a 12100F instead of an 8700G" camp.

The 8700G might make sense for some niche uses, but at its launch price I don't see the general appeal.

 

[Bayonet]

APUs really need something like on-package HBM.

 

[kapone32]

APUs really need something like on-package HBM.

Then they would cost more than GPUs.

According to HWUB, the 8700G system is idling at 40 W and gaming at 150 W.
The i3-12100 + RX 6600 XT system is idling at 40 W and gaming at 240 W. If you care to cripple the gaming performance the way it consumes 150 W it will still be faster than 8700G.

To save $40 a week in Canada given the 90 W difference and median 0.2 CAD a kW, you need to play 2222 hours weekly. That's a little bit impossible.

Like I elaborately showed, savings are negative. Traditional CPUs are MUCH cheaper, so is DDR4. 12100+6700 XT isn't much more expensive than 8700G. Sometimes, it's even cheaper. 6700 XT also allows you for some 4K gaming. What can this iGPU do? Die at 1080p? Yeah, of course.

You forget the fact you're paying roughly the same for a 8600G as you'd pay for 12400F+MB+RAM combined. 12100F+MB+RAM is cheaper than this APU alone. Factor more expensive DDR5 and you get a vastly different price tag. And 12700K laughs at 8600G's IPC and overclocking thanks to having more real cores and also having "fake" E-cores. It's also cheaper.

I did not even see the comment that Canadians pay 20 Cents a KWH for electricity lmao. I was also talking about $40 from the money you earn.

 

[A&P211]

They had to reduce the cache to fit the iGPU, you think they can fit the X3D cache?

cache goes on top

 

[stimpy88]

AMD would be grossly incompetent if they did not use this new memory controller in all of Zen5. This would bring them in line with Intel for memory support.

 

[AusWolf]

Hardware Unboxed tested it vs the RX 6500 XT.

See video above.

So in short: it doesn't beat it. Not even close. PCI-e 3.0 results don't count, everybody knows the 6500 XT doesn't work properly with such a low bandwidth thanks to the x4 bus.

I was thinking of getting an 8700G for shits'n'giggles, but seeing the HU video, I'll stick to my spare 6500 XT on the shelf and save the money.

 

[TheLostSwede]

So these results don't count? It appears to depend on the game.
If you already have a graphics card it doesn't really make sense to get.

 

[AusWolf]

So these results don't count? It appears to depend on the game.
If you already have a graphics card it doesn't really make sense to get.

View attachment 332106

View attachment 332107

It also depends on the CPU you use the 6500 XT with. The 8700G doesn't seem to pull ahead of the 6500 XT with every pairing, and since I have an i7-11700 in the small PC I intended to upgrade, I think I'll pass.

Edit: I do think it's impressive that an iGPU can match an only one generation old 90 W dGPU. It's just pointless for my use case, unfortunately.

 

[arbiter]

It also depends on the CPU you use the 6500 XT with. The 8700G doesn't seem to pull ahead of the 6500 XT with every pairing, and since I have an i7-11700 in the small PC I intended to upgrade, I think I'll pass.

Edit: I do think it's impressive that an iGPU can match an only one generation old 90 W dGPU. It's just pointless for my use case, unfortunately.

i3 12100 + RX 6600 can be bought for same price as 8700g of 330$. Depending on game you will get near 2-3x more fps with the i3/6600 combo. Yea you use more power but still very much a better bang for $ combo. if cpu isn't enough you could bump it to low end i5 for 100$ more. This is also ignoring the fact 8700g you have pay extra for decent memory which you could get away with slower on intel since its not crippling the gpu as it would on the 8700g. I think most people forget the system memory part of the price.

 

[kapone32]

i3 12100 + RX 6600 can be bought for same price as 8700g of 330$. Depending on game you will get near 2-3x more fps with the i3/6600 combo. Yea you use more power but still very much a better bang for $ combo. if cpu isn't enough you could bump it to low end i5 for 100$ more. This is also ignoring the fact 8700g you have pay extra for decent memory which you could get away with slower on intel since its not crippling the gpu as it would on the 8700g. I think most people forget the system memory part of the price.

It is not just power savings though. Entrance to the AM5 platform should also be considered. I am not denying there are more cost effective options. The 8700G is the one that the focus is on but the 8600G seems to be a good deal from that stand point.

 

[AusWolf]

It is not just power savings though. Entrance to the AM5 platform should also be considered. I am not denying there are more cost effective options. The 8700G is the one that the focus is on but the 8600G seems to be a good deal from that stand point.

To me, the 8700G is the exact same product as the 5700G was: the ideal HTPC APU that I will never get because of the unreasonable system upgrade costs.

 

[kapone32]

To me, the 8700G is the exact same product as the 5700G was: the ideal HTPC APU that I will never get because of the unreasonable system upgrade costs.

That is the thing they are exactly that. I really would like to make my own handheld as they are just too expensive.

 

[tanaka_007]

Someday someone will try something like this.
RTX4090 (MSFS 4K 60fps / DLSS 120fps) -> 7600G iGPU (AFMF Upto 240fps) -> Monitor
*Assign game EXE to dGPU and output the video from iGPU.