Microsoft Partners with AMD for Next-gen Xbox Hardware

[LastDudeALive]

Nvidia since day one has been pushing Tegra onto anyone and everyone with the slightest interest

Local man discovers business makes product and wants to sell product.

Nintendo looks for the most cost effective solution (cheapest, decent performance while having good battery life) as their business model is not the same as Sony or Xbox, where they sell hardware at a loss and make it back on software and services.

Yeah? I know Nintendo's console model is obviously very different from Sony and Xbox. In fact, this only furthers my point. Xbox could afford to splurge on the latest Nvidia hardware (maybe with Blackwell GPU architecture instead of Nintendo's choice of dirt-cheap Ampere from Samsung) and make it up with publisher fees and gamepass.

Unless AMD undercuts Nvidia with a chip that matches whatever Tegra based chip they're supplying Nintendo. Ninvidia isn't splitting anytime soon.

I think you're misunderstanding my point, I'm not saying Nintendo should break from Nvidia. I'm saying Xbox should break from AMD. Here's why.

Xbox is losing the "console wars" (if we can still call it that now) pretty hard. The PS5 has far outsold the Xbox, because there's no compelling reason to buy an Xbox over a PS5. Xbox's first-party titles are pretty weak.

I'm saying that Xbox should have gone with Nvidia hardware to distinguish themselves from Playstation. They could have far better RT, upscaling, even frame gen with Nvidia hardware. And for handhelds, an Nvidia SoC with an ARM CPU and Blackwell GPU would be much more power-efficient than any x86 and RDNA APU that AMD can make.

TLDR: Xbox is losing market to Playstation. I'm saying using going with Nvidia instead of AMD would be a distinguishing factor. They should at least try to change the playing field instead of just doing the same thing as Playstation.

And thinking about your comment some more those last couple jabs make no sense, as for AMD to do that they have to be desperate.

I think you may have missed the sarcasm. Yes, I'm saying AMD is desperate, because their discrete GPU sales have gone down the toilet. APUs for handhelds and consoles are basically the only revenue stream remaining for their graphics division.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Xbox is losing the "console wars" (if we can still call it that now) pretty hard. The PS5 has far outsold the Xbox, because there's no compelling reason to buy an Xbox over a PS5. Xbox's first-party titles are pretty weak.

I'm saying that Xbox should have gone with Nvidia hardware to distinguish themselves from Playstation. They could have far better RT, upscaling, even frame gen with Nvidia hardware. And for handhelds, an Nvidia SoC with an ARM CPU and Blackwell GPU would be much more power-efficient than any x86 and RDNA APU that AMD can make.

I don't think Microsoft really cares about hardware anymore.

Xbox is now the "biggest publisher" on PlayStation

Microsoft's gaming fortunes are on the up and up, as it posts record Q3 growth in a tough market.

www.windowscentral.com

 

[Paganstomp]

The next generation of immersive gameplay is being defined by advances in AI, virtual reality (VR), augmented reality (AR), and cloud gaming.

 

[ThomasK]

Here's why.

Too bad Nvidia doesn’t give a rats ass about any of that, so you’re essentially wasting your own time trying to prove your point here.

Just move on and quit the whining. My god.

 

[Daven]

“That's why we're investing in our next-generation hardware lineup, across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories.”
- Lisa Su

This is the most important part especially the cloud part. MS is partnering with AMD to release their own version of Geforce Now. We could also see a doubling down in the SoC space with a large product series that spans 5W to 300W and higher. Big iGPUs, lots of CPU cores and a giant pool of unified memory…yes please!

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Too bad Nvidia doesn’t give a rats ass about any of that, so you’re essentially wasting your own time trying to prove your point here.

Just move on and quit the whining. My god.

Yeah, I'm not sure why this is even a debate to begin with for a Mid spec console what the PlayStation and Xbox essentially are AMD is currently the best option for what is essentially a big APU. Nvidia only has Arm cores and would charge an arm and a leg for anything bigger than a Tegra GPU, and Intel is kind of a mess with the same downsides as switching to Nvidia that would make supporting previous Xbox software difficult.

Would it be cool to see a mid range Nvidia based console sure, would it be cool if the two competing console makers had vastly different hardware like the PS360 era sure, but from a cost perspective unless they were going Nintendo's route and using very outdated 2020 era architectures neither make sense.

I for one am glad AMD has both Sony/M$ that's 100 million+ devices that developers have to account for which while not directly competing with Nvidia at least means there has to be some optimizations towards AMD hardware and as long as the next consoles use something better than RDNA4 that being the base spec will still moving gaming forward more so than 9 years of 8GB GPU at the low end anyways on the PC side at the very least.....

 

[ThomasK]

Would it be cool to see a mid range Nvidia based console

Nvidia is way too busy with AI, to keep its shareholders happy. Hence why it is perfectly fine to overcharge the Nintards for last last gen hardware. The fans are gonna pay for it anyway, right?

Same can be said for the blind fanboys who are praising and buying RTX 5000.

Serves them all right.

 

[ARF]

A mistake. Should go with an ARM and something like Xring O1 (3 nm) and Immortalis-G925 MP16 . .

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Same can be said for the blind fanboys who are praising and buying RTX 5000.

The alternative is the similarly meh 9000 series from AMD that is still generally worse and in a lot of regions priced similarly. So while Blackwell is the worst performance uplift in the last decade as a family of GPUs AMD still couldn't beat it. All while Nvidia isn't even trying.

So anyone who needs a gpu got two bad options and mostly just comes down to the color Kool-Aid they prefer so for AMD about 10% or less of the DGPU market which is why I am glad they have the consoles....

 

[ThomasK]

All while Nvidia isn't even trying.

Whatever happened to missing ROPs, melting/overheating connectors and stable drivers, right? Blackwell was reportedly overheating in data centers as well.

So much for the sake of “not even trying”.

But I won’t be engaging with this off topic conversation anymore.

Have a good one.

 

[Hecate91]

AMD still couldn't beat it. All while Nvidia isn't even trying.

RDNA4 wasn't meant to be beating what Nvidia is offering, and as mentioned Nvidia is doing a lot worse than not trying.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

RDNA4 wasn't meant to be beating what Nvidia is offering, and as mentioned Nvidia is doing a lot worse than not trying.

Definitely this is in my mind one of the worst Nvidia generation I can remember at the very least since the GTX 400 series and the competition still couldn't beat it which is sad they did catch up a little which is a consolidation I guess whatever helps the red Kool-Aid drinkers sleep at night .

 

[Hecate91]

The only people I've seen saying that AMD cards are disappointing for only targeting midrange are those that prefer the green Kool-aid.
IMO, catching up in RT and upscaling was a massive upgrade from RDNA3, I would've liked to see a high end RDNA4 card, but the high end isn't very competitive as the green Kool-aid drinkers are very loyal to buying the green Kool-aid.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

The only people I've seen saying that AMD cards are disappointing for only targeting midrange are those that prefer the green Kool-aid.
IMO, catching up in RT and upscaling was a massive upgrade from RDNA3, I would've liked to see a high end RDNA4 card, but the high end isn't very competitive as the green Kool-aid drinkers are very loyal to buying the green Kool-aid.

Yes it's impressive that they slightly edged out the over a year old 4070ti super that generally cost the same, I'm happy for AMD gpu lovers though they can finally have an ada like gpu which was already not that great of a generation over a year later with much worse upscaling game support, joy while still losing to it's direct competitor at everything last i checked.

Both Nvidia/AMD are disappointments they offer nothing meaningful over the previous generation it's just rdna3 was so terrible at RT/upscaling amd fans are now happy about the two technologies they claimed didn't matter for the last half decade lmao.



I am happy RDNA4 is much better at RT/upscaling means we can finally get competent consoles without craptastic upscaling/RT performance.

 

[ARF]

The only people I've seen saying that AMD cards are disappointing for only targeting midrange

Not only they target the mid-range, they also can't make a normal, working driver for them, too:

The most popular e-sports title in the world runs like crap on these cards, and it seems they don't even work on the broken driver:

Sapphire Radeon RX 9060 XT Pulse OC 16 GB Review - Samsung Memory Tested

The Sapphire Radeon RX 9060 XT 16 GB sells close to MSRP, yet it features a factory overclock and higher power limit. In our testing, its cooler remained whisper-quiet even at full load. Interestingly, this model uses Samsung memory, whereas all other cards we've tested so far use Hynix.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[wolf]

The only people I've seen saying that AMD cards are disappointing for only targeting midrange are those that prefer the green Kool-aid.

You could step out of your AMD centric / Nvidia hatred echo chamber then, plenty of people want AMD competitive in the halo product space and this fantasy that they're all on some kind of kool-aid has essentially nothing to do with it in the scheme of things. That's just an easy and lazy scapegoat to hitch on to rather than actually understanding genuine consumer feedback.

 

[Chrispy_]

Same can be said for the blind fanboys who are praising and buying RTX 5000.

I'm not sure about blind fanboyism - at every single price point, the RTX 5000-series is better than the outgoing 4000-series GPU.

• GDDR7 solves the bandwidth problems of the 4060, 4060Ti.
• The 5060 gained a massive number of cores AND memory bandwidth at the exact same price point as the 4060.
• The 5060Ti 16GB is much cheaper and better than the 4060Ti 16GB.
• The 5070 is meh, but it's at least $50 cheaper for slightly more performance than the 4070 and the 4070S.
• The 5070Ti gives us almost 5080 performance using 5080 silicon at a lower price than the godawful 4070Ti that was just an eye-wateringly expensive 4070 with the same 12GB/192-bit handicap and nowhere close to the 4080's performance.
• The 5080 is pretty underwhelming but it's still a huge improvement on the $1200 4080 and a non-trivial improvement over the hypothetical $1000 4080S which I never actual saw on sale - they were always $1200+

AMD's 9070XT and 9060XT are great offerings, but in most regions they're overpriced, still selling for significantly above the MSRP that makes them attractive buys - and the Nvidia equivalents come with undeniably stronger game support, vastly superior non-gaming API support through CUDA, and have been below MSRP for several weeks now at the 5070/5070Ti/5080 tiers. I snagged both a 9070XT and 5070Ti for myself and I would absolutely not recommend the 9070XT at the moment looking at prices in my region. The cheapest 9070XT is £650 and the cheapest 5070Ti is £700. The Nvidia card is about 5-8% faster for 7% more money, but you ALSO get much better RT performance, CUDA, DLSS support in a much wider catalogue of games, and of course features like MFG which AMD doesn't have an answer for yet, regardless on my feelings about MFG. The 9070XT is a goddamn amazing $600 product, but as a $700 product, which seems to be a more realistic street price, it's debatable if it's worth choosing over Nvidia.

What I'm saying is that it's not just blind fanboys praising the RTX 5000 series. They may not be the amazing leap forwards that Pascal was, but they're objectively better than the underwhelming 40-series in both performance and price, and with the real-world pricing (rather than the fictitious MSRP of the 9070XT in particular), they're at least competitive with AMD's best in performance alone whilst offering more than AMD is when it comes to features and API support.

 

[leonavis]

The cheapest 9070XT is £650 and the cheapest 5070Ti is £700.

Oh wow. In Germany that's very different. 5070ti starts at 800€, the 9070xt at 690.

 

[Chrispy_]

Oh wow. In Germany that's very different. 5070ti starts at 800€, the 9070xt at 690.

Tim from HUB did a global performance/$ check:

YMMV depending on where you shop and prices are always in flux, but at least they look at the largest retailer(s) from 10 different countries so it's a pretty interesting snapshot.

Some people around here seem to think any HUB link is instantly garbage, but this is just a presentation of raw price data that's publicly available.

 

[leonavis]

Tim from HUB did a global performance/$ check:

YMMV depending on where you shop and prices are always in flux, but at least they look at the largest retailer(s) from 10 different countries so it's a pretty interesting snapshot.

Some people around here seem to think any HUB link is instantly garbage, but this is just a presentation of raw price data that's publicly available.

Sorry, am I missing something? In those comparisons the AMD cards beat their respective Nvidia-competitors almost everywhere, even if they are above MSRP and Nvidia isn't (anymore).

And as far as I understand it, Raytracing is calculated in. Sure, if you must have CUDA, you will need Nvidia. Just as if you want to use Linux, you will not want to give yourself headaches with Nvidia. But DLSS? FSR4 is, as far as I know, just as good by now.

 

[igormp]

Just as if you want to use Linux, you will not want to give yourself headaches with Nvidia.

Cut it to me disabling my iGPU because it gave me audio headaches and I had to use my Nvidia GPUs for video output on linux.

 

[Chrispy_]

Sorry, am I missing something? In those comparisons the AMD cards beat their respective Nvidia-competitors almost everywhere, even if they are above MSRP and Nvidia isn't (anymore).

And as far as I understand it, Raytracing is calculated in. Sure, if you must have CUDA, you will need Nvidia. Just as if you want to use Linux, you will not want to give yourself headaches with Nvidia. But DLSS? FSR4 is, as far as I know, just as good by now.

With the 9060XT vs 5060TI, I think it's in favour of AMD.
With the 9070 series, the price difference is too small.

Yes, FSR4 is as good as DLSS4, but FSR3 is hot garbage and DLSS3 was okay. Many many games support only FSR3 or DLSS3, and the number of games that support DLSS instead of FSR is staggering.
I've always been a supporter of the underdog, but it's crazy to ignore how many more games support DLSS over FSR. That difference in support is why AMD need their 15% discount or more, and most regions have the 9070 series at much less of a discount than that.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

With the 9060XT vs 5060TI, I think it's in favour of AMD.
With the 9070 series, the price difference is too small.

Yes, FSR4 is as good as DLSS4, but FSR3 is hot garbage and DLSS3 was okay. Many many games support only FSR3 or DLSS3, and the number of games that support DLSS instead of FSR is staggering.
I've always been a supporter of the underdog, but it's crazy to ignore how many more games support DLSS over FSR.

It takes about 10 seconds to upgrade any DLSS2 or later to DLSS4 with 2 programs one you only have to setup once after each driver update the other one to update the DLL file. FSR4 is still generally worse than DLSS4 but trades blows with DLSS3

Still it's close enough that if AMD just had much better game support and an easier way to upgrade FSR2 and newer titles I would consider it a wash.

AMD FSR 4 vs Nvidia DLSS 4 at 4K

After proving its mettle at 1440p, FSR 4 challenges Nvidia's DLSS 4 at 4K. In this deep dive, we test both upscalers on high-res scenes to see...

www.techspot.com

 

[Chrispy_]

It's probably worth pointing out in this console-GPU discussion that FSR4 only really exists because Sony were unhappy with FSR and starting doing AMDs homework for them.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

It's probably worth pointing out in this console-GPU discussion that FSR4 only really exists because Sony were unhappy with FSR and starting doing AMDs homework for them.

I think both MS and Sony wanting a machine learning based upscaling was part of it but AMD had to do something because the competing technology was beating theirs at lower settings so DLSS2/3 balanced vs FSR quality was still usually much better etc and FSR was nearly unusable at lower resolutions. It ruined some timed exclusive PS5 games so bad I stopped playing them and waited for the PC version glad I won't have to do that with the PS6.