Intel's Core Ultra 7 265K and 265KF CPUs Dip Below $250

[RandallFlagg]

Surprised this thread is still going. Clearly, derailed.

Just to enhance the discussion, here's a chart.

And another:

Hm...

 

[dir_d]

Am i seeing this correctly, those German slides show 4096 watts as Max OC. Or is that just unlimited and they have no clue how much wattage its using.

 

[JustBenching]

Am i seeing this correctly, those German slides show 4096 watts as Max OC. Or is that just unlimited and they have no clue how much wattage its using.

4096 is the maximum power limit you can set in the bios. It's basically unlimited

 

[Tek-Check]

Is nonsense? This is factual. Go on. Tell us how something faster than the 5800X3D or 5950X released for AM4 in the time between 2022 and now.

It does not need to be faster. Why would you ever assume that? It's a SKU. As you know, a line-up consists of high-end, mid-range and entry SKUs. Not sure why such a basic thing needs to be explained in a forum where allegedly enthusiasts know their stuff. All dies that did not qualify for 5800X3D, either in clocks or core did not work, were collected on a side for a long time and released later as a different SKU. It's far better to do this than discard silicon and create more e-waste. In this case, there are only a few thousand of those for minor, local release. Anything below 5800X3D was never a new production, but salvaged dies for lower SKUs. As yields on N7 were over 91%, that's why it took so long to collect those dies. It's really pretty simple stuff.

Just to enhance the discussion, here's a chart.

Derbauer also found similar uplifts on 285K with Boost 200S feature. Every little helps.

 

[dgianstefani]

Anything below 5800X3D was never a new production

You got there in the end!

 

[Tek-Check]

You got there in the end!

No. A nonsensical criticism was spewed against a minor SKU that would not hurt anyone, but it will bring one more CPU option to a few thousand users of older Zen systems. I have not read such anti-DIY nonsense for a long time. Absolutely silly. Like kids in school.

 

[Visible Noise]

As this is an Intel Thread I have nothing more to say.

Seven minutes later

If everyone was as affluent as you I guess that makes sense. Yes a 5950X is the fastest AM4 chip but that does not mean every user has a 5950X in their system. There are how many AM4 chips that are slower than the 5500X3D?

 

[Dr. Dro]

And you are sales representative who knows when shipments are due in shops? Right...

It's a small launch anyway. There might be only a few thousand of those. And it's good that such silicon doesn't end in e-waste, but can serve in someone's PC. It doesn't matter if it's from AMD or Intel.

You guys will simply need to get over yourselves and stop this negative spin by default. It's absurd.

I'm not negatively spinning anything, it's a simple statement of fact... it's currently unavailable at KaBuM!, Pichau and Terabyteshop, the "big 3" Brazilian stores. You can access them and look it up yourself...

 

[Dr. Dro]

Always the same people attacking AMD regardless of the thread. Just like the 120 FPS comment in Spiderman 2. Now it has become a meme for some of you. So High school.

Attack is a heavy word, choosing my words carefully here, I think you place too much importance on public opinion. What does it matter if other people don't have a spotless opinion of AMD? Does it take from the enjoyment you would derive from the ownership of your processor or graphics card? Does it cause you emotional distress? Do you dislike it because you're a large stakeholder with tons of money into $AMD stock and you fear that such posts may negatively affect your earnings if they don't utter constant praise? What does it change? Help me understand it. We're all entitled to our personal opinions, but at the end of the day, if we're to err on the side of reason, the benefit of the doubt must be given. It's OK to speculate, but any outlandish claims that go against known facts that are made should be substantiated.

On that same note, I'm happy to extend that benefit of the doubt to you regarding your claims about Spider-Man 2. I'm fairly sure you're aware that they don't align with any reviews made available thus far, nor the experience that other customers seem to be having. That places the burden of proof on you: if you produce some, such as a recording or perhaps CapFrameX data consistent with a benchmark run of your claims, no one would have an issue with it. Otherwise, either withdraw your statements, or let the issue be buried (nobody will trust you from that point onward).

 

[Visible Noise]

Attack is a heavy word, choosing my words carefully here, I think you place too much importance on public opinion. What does it matter if other people don't have a spotless opinion of AMD? Does it take from the enjoyment you would derive from the ownership of your processor or graphics card? Does it cause you emotional distress? Do you dislike it because you're a large stakeholder with tons of money into $AMD stock and you fear that such posts may negatively affect your earnings if they don't utter constant praise? What does it change? Help me understand it. We're all entitled to our personal opinions, but at the end of the day, if we're to err on the side of reason, the benefit of the doubt must be given. It's OK to speculate, but any outlandish claims that go against known facts that are made should be substantiated.

On that same note, I'm happy to extend that benefit of the doubt to you regarding your claims about Spider-Man 2. I'm fairly sure you're aware that they don't align with any reviews made available thus far, nor the experience that other customers seem to be having. That places the burden of proof on you: if you produce some, such as a recording or perhaps CapFrameX data consistent with a benchmark run of your claims, no one would have an issue with it. Otherwise, either withdraw your statements, or let the issue be buried (nobody will trust you from that point onward).

You sir, are gracious and well spoken.

i know just look at the paragraphs and then the whole white Knight argument. It seems Spidferman2 is now imbedded into their brain cells because my Snip of AMD software showiing Spiderman 2 numbers was phtoshopped I guess. Even when they asked for the settings with no Upscaling on and I showed them it was still hogwash. Now I will get these individuals trying to badger me because they don't believe what I SEE on screen. I thought I would enjoy this site but it seems people that bash AMD are protected and say whatever they want ad naseum. It does not matter, Tech is getting too expensive and we should be talking about is not allowed on this site.

I’m going to assume that English isn’t your native language and try one more time to teach you where you were wrong.

Dynamic Resolution Scaling IS Upscaling.

That’s why everyone was laughing at you insisting that you weren’t using upscaling. You were, and you were using a particularly shitty form of it also.

Hope that helps.

 

[95Viper]

Stick to the topic.
Stop derailing the thread and discuss the topic not each other.

 

[Tek-Check]

it's currently unavailable at KaBuM!, Pichau and Terabyteshop

They need to wait until the shipment arrives.

 

[JustBenching]

If there ever was any refresh for Arrow Lake, we would have heard about it by now. And even if there is late announcement during the summer, the refresh will be similar to moving from 13900K to 14900K, a minor little thing. So... nothing groundbreaking there, I am afraid. There is no new architecture available as a drop-in option on 1851. And you know this very well, so why pretending otherwise?

People who do serious productivity stuff with a high-end desktop system have enough brain power to do calculations and know how to invest into their gear. It's a no-brainer to invest into productivity platform with guaranteed drop-in upgrade on a new architecture. That's also why both Intel and AMD usually give at least one drop-in upgrade on HEDT/WS platforms, so that productivity folks don't need to buy motherboards and other components every time they just need a new CPU.

It's wrong to assume that a drop-in upgrade is planned for next year. Drop-in upgrade is hard wired into platform, owners of such systems know it and they can buy new CPU when they need it and not when it's released. Whatever the price is, it will still be much cheaper than buying a new high-end desktop system. There is nothing to debate here. It's pretty simple.

Intel lost their chance and momentum on 1851 platform for productivity folks when they cancelled the first architecture meant for this socket, which was Meteor Lake S. The rest is history. So, the choice for building a great productivity platform now with a drop-in upgrade is obviously AM5 platform. If someone can wait with such decision and continue to use whatever they have, then Nova Lake will give them next opportunity to purchase such platform with meaningful drop-in upgrade in future.

You are acting like upgrading every year is the norm. It isn't. my brother literally buys his CPU for productivity (crapload of ram and cores needed for VMs). He had a 3950x, by the time he wanted to upgrade it nothing on AM4 made sense (goes back to what has been said a couple of pages back, nothing exciting on am4 has released since 2020, the platform is EOL). He went for a 285k - he doesn't care about platform upgradability cause he is going to keep the system for 5 years minimum. People that have to spend a week setting up their system for their productivity workloads aren't going to be changing hardware willy nilly.

 

[Tek-Check]

You are acting like upgrading every year is the norm. It isn't.

It's not about the norm, but it's about options people have. Some platforms and choices bring more options than others.

my brother literally buys his CPU for productivity (crapload of ram and cores needed for VMs). He had a 3950x, by the time he wanted to upgrade it nothing on AM4 made sense (goes back to what has been said a couple of pages back, nothing exciting on am4 has released since 2020, the platform is EOL).

In this example, your brother already bought a high-end CPU. So, you have to remember someone's starting point to assess the extent to which they have upgrade options. In his case, the only meaningful drop in upgrade was 5950X. So, the option was available, but he decided not to use it for his own reasons. And that's fine.

You cannot say that nothing on AM4 made sense just because your brother didn't find it interesting or useful to upgrade to 5950X. That's nonsense. Obviously, the most exciting upgrade for gamers was 5800X3D that came out in 2022.

He went for a 285k - he doesn't care about platform upgradability cause he is going to keep the system for 5 years minimum. People that have to spend a week setting up their system for their productivity workloads aren't going to be changing hardware willy nilly.

Good for him. Setting up hardware for a week has nothing to do with the ease of drop-in upgrade and BIOS update. You will need to get out from the example you gave in your mind, in order to understand wider perspectives.

Someone doing productivity workloads for money, such as long media rendering and content creation sessions, will definitely want to upgrade to next gen on the same socket if such CPU brings at least 20% uplift in whatever they do. This literally means that 5 hour rendering session becomes 4 hour session, they can fit more work in less time. As a result, they can deliver more projects in the same time.

On a monthly basis and 8 hour rendering day, 20% CPU uplift, from a simple drop-in upgrade on the same platform, means saving around 35 hours for the same workload, which is huge.

People who know how to calculate their workload time vs performance benefit from a drop in upgrade greatly appreciate such possibility and will never keep their eyes and minds closed for 5 years.

 

[dgianstefani]

It's not about the norm, but it's about options people have. Some platforms and choices bring more options than others.

In this example, your brother already bought a high-end CPU. So, you have to remember someone's starting point to assess the extent to which they have upgrade options. In his case, the only meaningful drop in upgrade was 5950X. So, the option was available, but he decided not to use it for his own reasons. And that's fine.

You cannot say that nothing on AM4 made sense just because your brother didn't find it interesting or useful to upgrade to 5950X. That's nonsense.

Good for him. Setting up hardware for a week has nothing to do with the ease of drop-in upgrade and BIOS update. You will need to get out from the example you gave in your mind, in order to understand wider perspectives.

Someone doing productivity workloads for money, such as long media rendering and content creation sessions, will definitely want to upgrade to next gen on the same socket if such CPU brings at least 20% uplift in whatever they do. This literally means that 5 hour rendering session becomes 4 hour session, they can fit more work in less time. As a result, they can deliver more projects in the same time.Wow

On a monthly basis and 8 hour rendering day, 20% CPU uplift, from a simple drop-in upgrade on the same platform, means saving around 35 hours for the same workload, which is huge.

People who know how to calculate their workload time vs performance benefit from a drop in upgrade greatly appreciate such possibility and will never keep their eyes and minds closed for 5 years.

35 hours vs what, 75-100 hours saving from a platform upgrade?

Use your own logic.

 

[Tek-Check]

35 hours vs what, 75-100 hours saving from a platform upgrade?

Use your own logic.

Use your own imagination to figure out estimated numbers. As said, on a monthly basis, 8 hour rendering day and only 20% uplift.

If you assume 5 day working week, that gives 20-22 working days a month, so 160-176 hours. A drop-in upgrade with 20% uplift in relevant workloads could save roughly up to 35 hours. On annual basis, with one month off, it's roughly above 350 hours that could be dedicated to other tasks and projects. Not trivial at all from a simple drop-in upgrade.

 

[JustBenching]

Use your own imagination to figure out estimated numbers. As said, on a monthly basis, 8 hour rendering day and only 20% uplift.

If you assume 5 day working week, that gives 20-22 working days a month, so 160-176 hours. A drop-in upgrade with 20% uplift in relevant workloads could save roughly up to 35 hours. On annual basis, with one month off, it's roughly above 350 hours that could be dedicated to other tasks and projects. Not trivial at all from a simple drop-in upgrade.

If you are making more money out of it you are going straight for the bigger chips. Yes you might end up spending 5k instead of 1k but again, if that brings you more money you arent on a desktop platform.

 

[Tek-Check]

If you are making more money out of it you are going straight for the bigger chips. Yes you might end up spending 5k instead of 1k but again, if that brings you more money you arent on a desktop platform.

That's a whole different topic right there. The baseline case study was earning the same with 20% better drop-in upgrade and a lot of saved time. Whatever one wishes to do with gained time, it's up to them and beyond our scope here.

The bottom line is that nobody could rationally try to deny the value and flexibility of platforms with drop-in upgrades. Locking oneself willingly for 5 years behind unupgradeable productivity desktop platform doesn't bring saved time benefits showed above. It's like turning away from the evolving world and saying "I don't need better technology and saved time". It's a choice to make.

 

[JustBenching]

That's a whole different topic right there. The baseline case study was earning the same with 20% better drop-in upgrade and a lot of saved time. Whatever one wishes to do with gained time, it's up to them and beyond our scope here.

The bottom line is that nobody could rationally try to deny the value and flexibility of platforms with drop-in upgrades. Locking oneself willingly for 5 years behind unupgradeable productivity desktop platform doesn't bring saved time benefits showed above. It's like turning away from the evolving world and saying "I don't need better technology and saved time". It's a choice to make.

But that's not the reality of the situation here.

First of all, noone is locked anywhere. Nothing stops you from buying a new mobo + cpu. So the argument here isnt that intel locks you, its that you theoretically have to spend more money to also buy a new motherboard.

And i say theoretically cause it is completely theoretical. In reality the guy that actually gets more money the faster his pc is wouldn't wait 2 years for his old mobo to finally support zen 3,he would just go and grab a new mobo. The vast (like 90%+) majority of am4 mobos didnt get support for zen 3 until 2022. So everyone with a financial incentive would have just sucked it up and buy a new mobo since theyll earn more than what the mobo would cost them.

 

[Tek-Check]

In reality the guy that actually gets more money the faster his pc is wouldn't wait 2 years for his old mobo to finally support zen 3,he would just go and grab a new mobo.

No. This is complete nonsense. Anyone buying 3950X for productivity PC would be using X570 boards that natively support Zen2. The following year, Zen3 CPUs got day one support on X570 chipset. You are literally making up stuff in your head and misleading the comment section.

 

[JustBenching]

No. This is complete nonsense. Anyone buying 3950X for productivity PC would be using X570 boards that natively support Zen2. The following year, Zen3 CPUs got day one support on X570 chipset. You are literally making up stuff in your head and misleading the comment section.

No, you are making stuff up. The majority of Am4 mobos did not get support on release but 2 years later. Doesn't matter what someone with a 3950x would have bought. And why would someone with a 3950x buy an x570 anyways? Are you saying older mobos are lacking in some way?

 

[Tek-Check]

No, you are making stuff up. The majority of Am4 mobos did not get support on release but 2 years later.

Which motherboards did Zen3 CPUs work on from the release day? They must have worked on thin air and AA batteries.

 

[RandallFlagg]

You are acting like upgrading every year is the norm. It isn't. my brother literally buys his CPU for productivity (crapload of ram and cores needed for VMs). He had a 3950x, by the time he wanted to upgrade it nothing on AM4 made sense (goes back to what has been said a couple of pages back, nothing exciting on am4 has released since 2020, the platform is EOL). He went for a 285k - he doesn't care about platform upgradability cause he is going to keep the system for 5 years minimum. People that have to spend a week setting up their system for their productivity workloads aren't going to be changing hardware willy nilly.

That's exactly right, and virtually no one in enthusiast forums mentions it.

The people who have a lot of money for regular upgrades, generally value their time at a premium. For the relatively small number of those who have DIY rigs, what's the time cost?

Let's say one day to read reviews and select parts (8H). Another day to assemble the new rig and get it up and functional (8H). Then one more day to install applications and transfer files (8H).

Just to put this in perspective, the average H1B visa holder in the US makes $167K/year per ZipRecruiter. That comes out to $80/hour.

24 hours at 80/hr is $1920. That's the time cost. Reality ofc, you're probably working 60H/wk, but that means you value your *free time* even *more* than the pay implies. This also BTW is why most of them will not do DIY. They can cut the entire process down to the last 8H by getting OEM.

I know plenty of people who are in these kinds of positions who just don't want to mess with upgrading their old Zen 2 or even Gen 9 / Gen 10 Intel rigs, or for that matter are perfectly happy with an old Gen 8 laptop. They work fine for what they are doing, and time is money.

 

[JustBenching]

Which motherboards did Zen3 CPUs work on from the release day? They must have worked on thin air and AA batteries.

Only the x570s.

 

[Hecate91]

Which motherboards did Zen3 CPUs work on from the release day? They must have worked on thin air and AA batteries.

Most AM4 boards I'm aware of got a Zen 3 BIOS update before or right after launch.

its that you theoretically have to spend more money to also buy a new motherboard.

So you are locked from upgrading because Intel changes their sockets too often.
These core ultra 200 series might seem like a good value, but only if you plan on never upgrading the system at all, as next gen is on a new socket.

So everyone with a financial incentive would have just sucked it up and buy a new mobo since theyll earn more than what the mobo would cost them.

The better financial incentive is to drop in a new CPU, less downtime than swapping an entire motherboard out and reinstalling an OS.