Intel "Nova Lake‑S" Series: Seven SKUs, Up to 52 Cores and 150 W TDP

[dgianstefani]

What's the limit for Alder Lake?

About 7000, more likely 6800.

 

[Pets4Ever]

"150W"

PL1: 150W
PL2: 1000W

 

[Dr. Dro]

About 7000, more likely 6800.

Wonder how far can one go with a board like the Apex Encore and a modern kit.

 

[SRB151]

And? My post was replying to someone asking for quad channel DIMM on consumer desktop, since more cores need more bandwidth to stay fed. The point is you aren't going to see it, especially not combined with DIMM form factor. Market is moving to CAMM2/soldered.

AI Max+ is 4 channel memory.

Yep, Apple did their homework. Enhanced single core performance, multi core good enough, and all this with great efficiency.

I want that for x86

View attachment 404049

Geekbench is useless. Besides, like it or not, much of Apple's performance can be credited to their total control of the entire chain. Software, hardware, SOC, OS, a few custom custom support chips, all designed to work together and optimized far better that the Microsoft-Intel-AMD-Nvidia-insert company here all kludged together. Having to support thousands if not millions of combinations. It's the reason so many older 68k pc's ran circles around the oringinal 8088 and 80286

 

[dgianstefani]

AI Max+ is 4 channel memory.

It's soldered laptop LPDDRX. Only way for them to get the bandwidth and MT rating. Also why Framework had to explain why the RAM couldn't be upgraded. We're talking about DIMMs or CAMM2, both of which are modular.

 

[JustBenching]

Wonder how far can one go with a board like the Apex Encore and a modern kit.

My 12900k is 7k - maybe can push 7200 if I go nuts on IO / SA voltages. It can boot at 7600 and work mostly "fine" but it's not stable, and it's not because of the mobo.

 

[Prima.Vera]

No more multithreading?

 

[efikkan]

This should be a significant generational leap in multi-threaded performance. Not sure about single threaded though,…

Unless Intel achieves a massive gain in energy efficiency, we'll be looking at severe throttling by having 16 P-cores (and more) battling over a 150W power budget. Probably great for a few select benchmarks, but all over the place in real life.

I thought I saw some rumor about 10.2 AVX but I can't remember if that mean AVX512 or not.

It does.

What we should focus on is what Nova lake brings in the following categories;
- Overall architectural advancements
- APX support? (Diamond Rapids for server will)
- AVX-512 support?
In that order, which would provide tangible performance uplifts for real world use cases.
If it fails to deliver in these regards, it might as well be renamed "gimmick lake".

 

[JustBenching]

Unless Intel achieves a massive gain in energy efficiency, we'll be looking at severe throttling by having 16 P-cores (and more) battling over a 150W power budget. Probably great for a few select benchmarks, but all over the place in real life.

As you decrease power consumption efficiency goes up, which means power draw lowers a lot more than performance does. So even at 150w this thing will be insanely fast and efficient.

Core ultra series has already achieved exceptional performance at lower power levels so it won't really be an issue.

 

[Visible Noise]

AVX-512 support?

Useless for consumer workloads.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Useless for consumer workloads.

Why is that?

 

[Visible Noise]

Why is that?

Very little software benefits from vector math that wide. The average consumer isn’t doing cryptography, financial Monte Carlo simulations, OCR, etc..

Web browsers and word processors don’t use 64 byte transcendental functions.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Very little software benefits from vector math that wide. The average consumer isn’t doing cryptography, financial Monte Carlo simulations, OCR, etc..

Web browsers and word processors don’t use 64 byte transcendental functions.

Fair enough.

 

[efikkan]

Useless for consumer workloads.

So encryption, file compression and video encoding is unheard of for consumers?
Two of those are even used by your web browser, and the OS itself also uses encryption. AVX-512 has already been proven useful for Zen 5, and in the Linux world support is growing, even some standard library functions can use it, so there is lots of "free" performance to be gained for many applications.

Very little software benefits from vector math that wide.

Untrue, pretty much anything that uses SIMD will scale further with wider vectors.
And if it doesn't use SIMD, it's fairly unlikely to scale well with more cores either.

But there are workloads which have little or no benefit from SIMD, which is why I put them in that order, as the two first combined will do wonders for logic-heavy workloads.

 

[Visible Noise]

So encryption, file compression and video encoding is unheard of for consumers?
Two of those are even used by your web browser, and the OS itself also uses encryption. AVX-512 has already been proven useful for Zen 5, and in the Linux world support is growing, even some standard library functions can use it, so there is lots of "free" performance to be gained for many applications.


Untrue, pretty much anything that uses SIMD will scale further with wider vectors.
And if it doesn't use SIMD, it's fairly unlikely to scale well with more cores either.

But there are workloads which have little or no benefit from SIMD, which is why I put them in that order, as the two first combined will do wonders for logic-heavy workloads.

Derp. Read better. What web browser uses AVX-512? What OS? What consumers are doing large scale cryptography? Consumer file compression is integer math, not floating point vector math.

List the common consumer software that uses it to any significant extent.

Have you heard of the guy named Linus Torvalds? Here’s his thoughts:
“I hope AVX-512 dies a painful death…Because absolutely nobody cares outside of benchmarks.

The same is largely true of AVX512 now - and in the future. Yes, you can find things that care. No, those things don't sell machines in the big picture.”.

RWT Forums - Real World Tech

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www.realworldtech.com

 

[dismuter]

What web browser uses AVX-512? What OS?

While you may be right overall, those specific points are not valid arguments because there could be another explanation for the absence of AVX-512 in them, namely that they may not want to invest in optimizing for AVX-512 if it's not ubiquitous on new hardware. A chicken-and-egg situation basically.

 

[efikkan]

Derp. Read better. What web browser uses AVX-512? What OS? What consumers are doing large scale cryptography?

If you're going to participate in a forum, you should be respectful, kind, and only speak if you have something useful to contribute. Hurling insults, gaslighting and deflecting is typically associated with narcissistic behavior.

Recent Linux kernels already support AVX-512 for encryption, encryption is used by pretty much all network traffic. Clear Linux have lots of applications and libraries with AVX-512 support, more than regular distributions, incl. glibc benefiting all kinds of applications and processes.

Consumer file compression is integer math, not floating point vector math.

Why make such bold claims without even knowing the very basics?
AVX isn't just floating point math, it's also integer math, which has been supported since the beginning.
7zip supports AVX-512.

 

[Visible Noise]

If you're going to participate in a forum, you should be respectful, kind, and only speak if you have something useful to contribute. Hurling insults, gaslighting and deflecting is typically associated with narcissistic behavior.

Recent Linux kernels already support AVX-512 for encryption, encryption is used by pretty much all network traffic. Clear Linux have lots of applications and libraries with AVX-512 support, more than regular distributions, incl. glibc benefiting all kinds of applications and processes.


Why make such bold claims without even knowing the very basics?
AVX isn't just floating point math, it's also integer math, which has been supported since the beginning.
7zip supports AVX-512.

Waiting for that list of common consumer software.

 

[Simkin]

Intel's PR material will definitely look good with all those cores.

Whether that translates into effective performance, however, is an entirely different story.

AMD fanboy detected.

 

[ThomasK]

AMD fanboy detected.

Says the one who took offense and has a Intel 8086 proc. as an avatar.

Get a grip. Or a mirror.

 

[Simkin]

Says the one who took offense and has a Intel 8086 proc. as an avatar.

Get a grip. Or a mirror.

Rest assure, I'm not offended over fanboys.

Actually im quite surprised they still exist.

And the worst are people with AMD systems, either CPU or GPU fanboys.

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

Wonder how far can one go with a board like the Apex Encore and a modern kit.

I got as high as 8600MT's CL38 on mine, but you need a god bin chip like what I have (SP117, MC SP 94) my other 13900KS with lower SP can only do 8200MT's CL36 (which practically is also fine)

 

[ThomasK]

Rest assure, I'm not offended over fanboys.

Actually im quite surprised they still exist.

And the worst are people with AMD systems, either CPU or GPU fanboys.

Uncle, it’s time to start taking your meds again. What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Simkin]

Uncle, it’s time to start taking your meds again. What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense.

Let's just say its no surprise that you sit on both AMD cpu and gpu, and posting like you do in this thread.

It's Classic Fanboy behaviour.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Let's just say its no surprise that you sit on both AMD cpu and gpu, and posting like you do in this thread.

It's Classic Fanboy behaviour.

Are you done embarrassing yourself? Can we get back to the topic at hand?