PC and monitor randomly restarts , like power goes and comes very fast ( both plugged on a line filter )

[matpc]

Hello, good afternoon

I have my PC (R5 7600, 32 RAM, 4070 Super, TUF B650M and PSU Core Reactor 650W) and monitor (LG Ultragear 144Hz 24) connected to an IClamper 5 ( a popular good line filter here in brazil)

It turns out that recently (regardless of the load) the PC and the monitor turn off and back on at the same time, this has happened to me twice

I don't hear the power supply relay or the filter relay (disarming in this case), it's kind of like the PC and the monitor turn off and back on at the same time

The power in the house doesn't go out, the PC restarts and I hear the monitor beep, which has also restarted, so to speak

Does the line filter cause this? Or is the outlet having a problem? What can I do to try to solve it? And what explains why the power goes out in only one wall and not in the rest of the house?

the gap happened like 16 days of each other , same symptom , pc restarts and monitor as well since i can hear it beeping

at first glance i thought it was my pc but since the monitor also restarts , it is not

Could the pc cause the monitor to shut off ? i don´t think so , but who knows

high chance could be the filter , but why would it disarm and get back this fast ?

Thanks

Hello, good afternoon

I have my PC (R5 7600, 32 RAM, 4070 Super, TUF B650M and PSU Core Reactor 650W) and monitor (LG Ultragear 144Hz 24) connected to an IClamper 5 ( a popular good line filter here in brazil)

It turns out that recently (regardless of the load) the PC and the monitor turn off and back on at the same time, this has happened to me twice

I don't hear the power supply relay or the filter relay (disarming in this case), it's kind of like the PC and the monitor turn off and back on at the same time

The power in the house doesn't go out, the PC restarts and I hear the monitor beep, which has also restarted, so to speak

Does the line filter cause this? Or is the outlet having a problem? What can I do to try to solve it? And what explains why the power goes out in only one wall and not in the rest of the house?

the gap happened like 16 days of each other , same symptom , pc restarts and monitor as well since i can hear it beeping

at first glance i thought it was my pc but since the monitor also restarts , it is not

Could the pc cause the monitor to shut off ? i don´t think so , but who knows

high chance could be the filter , but why would it disarm and get back this fast ?

Thanks

in the event viewer it shows like this

 

[static_void]

Does the line filter cause this? Or is the outlet having a problem?

Filter can be faulty, outlet can be faulty, outlet wiring can be faulty, anything in between the PC/monitor and power grid can be faulty. To check if the filter is the cause you can try using a different filter if you have one available, or running your PC without a filter for some time, if that is safe enough. To check if the outlet is the issue, get some extension cord and use it to connect your PC to some other outlet in your house.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Are you sure the monitor is actually turning off? Or could it just be going into sleep mode because it lost the signal from the PC? I suspect that latter. Actually turning off does not make sense.

Does the line filter cause this? Or is the outlet having a problem? What can I do to try to solve it? And what explains why the power goes out in only one wall and not in the rest of the house?

I suspect your filter is faulty - assuming it is designed to handle the load. Have you tried connecting directly to the wall outlet? I would try that for a quick test and if it works fine, then you need a new filter. You might then consider a "good" UPS with AVR (automatic voltage regulation). A "good" UPS with AVR will provide essentially the same, or better filtering, but as a bonus, will provide backup power in the event of a full outage. Just note I said "good" UPS.

As for your outlet, test it. Every home and every computer user should have access to a AC Outlet Tester to ensure the wall outlet is properly wired and grounded to Earth ground. I recommend one with a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) indicator as it can be used to test bathroom and kitchen outlets (outlets near water) too. These testers can be found for your type and voltage outlet, foreign or domestic, (like this one for the UK, or this one for German outlets) at most home improvement stores, or even the electrical department at Wal-Mart. Use it to test all the outlets in the home and if a fault is shown, have it fixed by a qualified electrician.

 

[Harlow]

or the filter relay (disarming

I'm not convinced the iClamper 5 actually contains a relay, if the picures I've found show your device.
https://www.pakequis.com.br/2020/09/dps-filtro-iclamper-energia-5.html

The top view appears to show three MOVs (large blue discs), two capacitors (small blue discs, possibly 10nF ?), a large yellow rectangular block (another capacitor, C1 110nF ?) and two wire-ended vertically-mounted components (resistors or thermal fuses, R1 and R2 ?).

The reason I think the yellow component isn't a relay is because underneath, it has only two connections, one at each end. A relay would have at least four connections. It's probably a high frequency capacitor, C1 110nF.

A higher quality filter would contain inductors (to limit current spikes) as well as MOV (to limit voltage spikes). An example is the Tripp Lite ISOBAR4. OK for 120V AC supplies, but not for 230V AC supplies. The iClamper 5 does not contain inductors, just MOVs.
https://www.insight.com/en_US/shop/...-4-Outlet-6-Cord-3330-Joules-surge-protector/

PSU Core Reactor 650W

Seems like a good PSU, 100W over the 550W minimum recommended for the RTX 4070 Super.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/xpg-core-reactor-650w-power-supply-review
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-4070-super.c4186

The power in the house doesn't go out, the PC restarts and I hear the monitor beep, which has also restarted, so to speak

You might be suffering from short duration mains power glitches of less than half a second. The "hold up" time of a well designed PSUs is supposed to be at least 17 milliseconds, but if the mains disappears for more than circa 30 miiliseconds, the computer will normally stop working. With a short enough "glitch" of 50 to 150 milliseconds, you might not notice any other devices in the house failing. Lights tend to be the exception and you'll frequently see lights flash off then instantly back on for short duration cuts.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Lights tend to be the exception and you'll frequently see lights flash off then instantly back on for short duration cuts.

I think you have that bit a bit backwards there. If "we" (mere humans) see a flicker in the lights, that typically is the result of a long duration (relatively speaking) sag or drop in the voltage.

Beyond that, your comment about hold-up time is spot on and particularly appreciated is the fact you specifically said, "well designed" PSUs.

HOWEVER, and sadly, one can look through many of the PSU reviews on this site and find several examples of highly rated, "well designed" PSUs that still failed to maintain output (hold up power) as required by the ATX Form Factor standard. And for some reason, it seems the ATX Form Factor design committee capitulated to the PSU makers because instead of standing their ground, they have now lowered the standard.

With an 80% or lower load, that minimum of 17ms still applies. But with a 100% load, the PSU only has to maintain output for 12ms. That is not very long. The standard fails to specify what is required between 80 and 100%.

Fortunately, most manufacturers and self-builders know (or at least should know) to size a PSU so it is never maxed out at 100% load.

Nevertheless, 17ms is faster than the human brain can detect. In fact, for decades, and even still today, movies and many TV shows are recorded at "just" 24 frames per second (fps) because that was determined long ago to be fast enough that "we" (again, us mere humans) would not see the frames flickering. And I note 1 frame at 24 fps lasts for 41.667 milliseconds.

So yeah, there could be a drop in voltage that lasts 30 - 35 milliseconds that would definitely cause the computer to crash without us even being aware of any power anomaly. This is just another reason I recommend ALL computers be on a "good" UPS with AVR - even if you never experience full power outages. Note a "good" UPS with AVR can detect a disruptive power anomaly in less than 6ms and react (compensate) and even cut-over to battery, if necessary in ~10 ms or less.

Note even the best surge and spike protectors do absolutely nothing when hit with low voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (very long duration sags). So that iClamper 5 may help with surges and spikes, but won't for low-voltage anomalies like dips and sags.

I also don't think that is a relay (thanks to Harlow's screen shot showing only two contact points. Perhaps a coil.

 

[matpc]

hey guys.

Yes , im pretty sure the monitor and computer restarts , as the monitor has a beep ( turning on / off only , it does not beep in standby) and the computer clearly restarts

I´ve been testing it directly into the wall ( but still the same wall , 2 different outlets)

So far so good. It is too cold here in my region , like 9 degrees , could the filter be malfuncioning because of it ? And yes , this iclamper 5 is the best i could get here in brazil , not many options

Could it be falsely disarming maybe ? at first i thought it was my psu but i´m sure my monitor also turns off due to beeps

It is very weird , my computer simply restarts , fans lights don´t go off as well , the computer and monitor simply restart (regardless of load)

i remember i was at whatsapp web and it happened

I can´t find any gpu driver crash as well

I will test some time directly into the wall , is it ok 2 outlets but same wall and completely discarding the filter ?

thanks

hey guys.

Yes , im pretty sure the monitor and computer restarts , as the monitor has a beep ( turning on / off only , it does not beep in standby) and the computer clearly restarts

I´ve been testing it directly into the wall ( but still the same wall , 2 different outlets)

So far so good. It is too cold here in my region , like 9 degrees , could the filter be malfuncioning because of it ? And yes , this iclamper 5 is the best i could get here in brazil , not many options

Could it be falsely disarming maybe ? at first i thought it was my psu but i´m sure my monitor also turns off due to beeps

It is very weird , my computer simply restarts , fans lights don´t go off as well , the computer and monitor simply restart (regardless of load)

i remember i was at whatsapp web and it happened

I can´t find any gpu driver crash as well

I will test some time directly into the wall , is it ok 2 outlets but same wall and completely discarding the filter ?

thanks

one thing to not event viewer said code 0 on both instances and another day when the power was really cut off it says code 239 , not sure if it means anything

i also have to say that i had a brownout and the pc still managed to not turn off (but i heard some psu clicks )

in these filter events i don´t hear a single click , it just restarts

my monitor did not turn off or restart in the brownout as well

i remember i had the filter connected to them as well when this brownout happened

i just find it very weird happening it 2 times and the same symptoms , house completely fine but only my monitor and pc affected , yet the same restart for both , exact same event twice

and also , how does the filter can became erratic ? what does explain this behavior of it cutting power maybe ?

unless my pc is crashing the monitor as well ? but i don´t think this can happen

i´ve ran whocrashed and stuff , it does not detect bsod , just restarts like losing and recovering power very fast

 

[Bill_Bright]

So far so good.

Looking more and more like the filter is at fault.

It is too cold here in my region , like 9 degrees , could the filter be malfuncioning because of it ?

Why? Is it located outdoors? I have to assume it is located indoors, out of the weather, and in room that is heated.

is it ok 2 outlets but same wall and completely discarding the filter ?

It is typically best to power the entire computer system from the same wall outlet - unless by 2, you mean something like this as we have in the US. With these, there are two outlets but they are bonded together internally and the same cable delivers voltage to both from the service panel.

But if you mean two outlets several feet apart, in rare cases that could cause problems. The reason is because with two completely separate outlets, that means each one is being supplied by a different cable (or section of cable) and that means the path (and thus resistance) back to the service panel and Earth ground will be slightly different. In some cases, if the computer is plugged in one outlet and the monitor, for example, in a different outlet, there could be a "difference in potential" between the two resulting in "noise" (a buzz in the audio) or even a slight electrical shock ("tingle") if you touch both at once. In extreme cases, and with a compromised person (small child or someone with a heart pacemaker for example), it could be deadly. Typically, however, it results in interference with the sensitive devices in the computer, or causes EMI/RFI that may affect the computer or other nearby electronics.

These issues could become even more apparent if one or more outlets are improperly wired, damaged or in some way faulty. I refer you back to my recommendation above in Post #3 to get an outlet tester.

If you must use two outlets, it is recommended you "strap" or connect all the components together using inexpensive, basic 22 AWG "Hookup" wire to a case screw on each case. This will establish a "common ground", eliminating any difference in potentials and prevent such noise or interference.

 

[matpc]

Looking more and more like the filter is at fault.

Why? Is it located outdoors? I have to assume it is located indoors, out of the weather, and in room that is heated.


It is typically best to power the entire computer system from the same wall outlet - unless by 2, you mean something like this as we have in the US. With these, there are two outlets but they are bonded together internally and the same cable delivers voltage to both from the service panel.

But if you mean two outlets several feet apart, in rare cases that could cause problems. The reason is because with two completely separate outlets, that means each one is being supplied by a different cable (or section of cable) and that means the path (and thus resistance) back to the service panel and Earth ground will be slightly different. In some cases, if the computer is plugged in one outlet and the monitor, for example, in a different outlet, there could be a "difference in potential" between the two resulting in "noise" (a buzz in the audio) or even a slight electrical shock ("tingle") if you touch both at once. In extreme cases, and with a compromised person (small child or someone with a heart pacemaker for example), it could be deadly. Typically, however, it results in interference with the sensitive devices in the computer, or causes EMI/RFI that may affect the computer or other nearby electronics.

These issues could become even more apparent if one or more outlets are improperly wired, damaged or in some way faulty. I refer you back to my recommendation above in Post #3 to get an outlet tester.

If you must use two outlets, it is recommended you "strap" or connect all the components together using inexpensive, basic 22 AWG "Hookup" wire to a case screw on each case. This will establish a "common ground", eliminating any difference in potentials and prevent such noise or interference.

Ah yes , the filter is inside the room haha

and about outlets , no , i don´t use like the one in picture , same wall and 2 different outlets

i wanted to know as well , i think just no but is it possible for the gpu to cause a monitor crash and restart the monitor maybe ? but like i´ve said , i can´t find any bsod logs or display driver crashes , just randomly restarts

and also , if it were my psu , the gap is around 16 days between each other event (06 jun , 22 jun)

 

[Bill_Bright]

is it possible for the gpu to cause a monitor crash and restart the monitor maybe ?

No - not restart the monitor. You verified the monitor is turning off. Neither the computer nor its graphics solution can "turn off" a connected monitor. It can put or cause the monitor to go into stand-by (sleep) mode. And it can wake the monitor from sleep mode. But it cannot kill power to the monitor causing it to turn off.

i can´t find any bsod logs or display driver crashes , just randomly restarts

And again, that makes sense if your filter is killing power to the connected devices. Logs can only be written "IF" the OS is able to detect a problem and have time to create a log before the system crashes. But when the system suddenly looses power, the OS does not have time to do anything.

and also , if it were my psu , the gap is around 16 days between each other event (06 jun , 22 jun)

Not sure your point. Problems are often "intermittent". As such, they typically are the most difficult to troubleshoot unless you are able to duplicate the problem on demand. Technicians are rarely so lucky.

 

[matpc]

No - not restart the monitor. You verified the monitor is turning off. Neither the computer nor its graphics solution can "turn off" a connected monitor. It can put or cause the monitor to go into stand-by (sleep) mode. And it can wake the monitor from sleep mode. But it cannot kill power to the monitor causing it to turn off.


And again, that makes sense if your filter is killing power to the connected devices. Logs can only be written "IF" the OS is able to detect a problem and have time to create a log before the system crashes. But when the system suddenly looses power, the OS does not have time to do anything.


Not sure your point. Problems are often "intermittent". As such, they typically are the most difficult to troubleshoot unless you are able to duplicate the problem on demand. Technicians are rarely so lucky.

hmm i see

Yeah the problem tend to be somewhat faulty outlet or filter as im pretty sure both pc and monitor turns off

On a side note , could this filter cause problems or harm pc , monitor ? and also , is it actually helping anything? thanks

 

[Bill_Bright]

the problem tend to be somewhat faulty outlet or filter

You already said above you connected directly to the wall and had no problems. So once again, it points to the filter.

On a side note , could this filter cause problems or harm pc , monitor ?

Not likely - however, when it comes to high voltage AC (which mains voltage is) anything is possible. So I would take it out of circuit as I doubt it is doing any good at this point.

 

[matpc]

i´ve just teardowned the filter , will upload some pictures soon , not sure if it is good looking

not sure if it looks good , but this is the filter. And also , does it have a relay for lightning strike and surges etc ? thanks

and also , both events say WHEA 0 , is it safe to say that there are no hardware errors or this is not reliable ? thanks

 

[Bill_Bright]

Sorry, but you are wasting everyone's (including your) time with this. Unless something is obviously burnt or broken, you cannot tell by looking if bad or not.

Relays are too slow so not likely and more importantly, irrelevant. You have already successfully isolated the problem to the filter device. Get a new one (or better yet, a good UPS with AVR).

Time to move on.

 

[matpc]

Sorry, but you are wasting everyone's (including your) time with this. Unless something is obviously burnt or broken, you cannot tell by looking if bad or not.

Relays are too slow so not likely and more importantly, irrelevant. You have already successfully isolated the problem to the filter device. Get a new one (or better yet, a good UPS with AVR).

Time to move on.

hm i see

i thought these brown parts were a problem but ok

thanks

 

[Bill_Bright]

They just "look" (from here) like old flux (and flux splatters) that have gotten warm - a common sight and NOT an indication of any problem.

HOWEVER - your thread is about determining why your computer and monitor were restarting. You determined why. If you want help troubleshooting your filter, I suggest you contact the filter manufacturer because that is not a computer problem.

 

[matpc]

They just "look" (from here) like old flux (and flux splatters) that have gotten warm - a common sight and NOT an indication of any problem.

HOWEVER - your thread is about determining why your computer and monitor were restarting. You determined why. If you want help troubleshooting your filter, I suggest you contact the filter manufacturer because that is not a computer problem.

on a side note , could this filter really help in storms , lightning strikes ? i don´t have this much in my region but had a incident (once in 30 years ) that a lightning strike took out my psu at the time ( it was directly at the wall at the time)

Not sure if worth using filters anyway

this iclamper 5 is the best i can get here in brazil as well

 

[Bill_Bright]

Well, let's back up a bit. What you are calling a filter (if this) is really just a very basic surge and spike protector using MOVs (metal oxide varistors) devices, commonly found in most basic surge and spike protectors.

They are very basic, but effective for most surges and spikes WHEN NEW.

They are NOT filters. A filter will remove noise from the incoming AC waveform and make minor adjustments to attenuate or boost, as necessary, for "minor" deviations from the expected line-in voltage. This is what the AVR (automatic voltage regulation) feature of a "good" UPS with AVR does.

With your and similar devices, when they encounter "minor" surges and spikes, the MOVs will absorb the excess voltage and convert it to heat where it then will [hopefully] dissipate away. For excessive surges and spikes, this device will simply "clamp" or chop off the tops of the voltage sinewaves. That is effective at preventing damage from excessive voltage, but leaves a very ugly (dirty - unfiltered) waveform for the connected devices to deal with. NOT IDEAL. And with extreme surges and spikes, they simply cut power (“IF” working properly), crashing your computer - never good.

Another, often overlooked problem with surge and spike protectors is they do NOT age well. MOVs wear out. EVERY time they take a hit from a surge or spike, it ages them a little. The bigger and/or more frequent the hits, the faster the aging. And over time, and not much time , they essentially become useless. This is why it is recommended surge and spike protectors be replaced every 2 years.

Sadly, there typically is no way to determine if the device is still effective. Some of the more expensive surge and spike protectors have indicator LEDs to indicate if still good. Most do not.

Not sure if worth using filters anyway

If you value your sensitive electronics and, often more importantly, the data on them, then protecting your computer from power line anomalies absolutely IS worth it.

 

[matpc]

Well, let's back up a bit. What you are calling a filter (if this) is really just a very basic surge and spike protector using MOVs (metal oxide varistors) devices, commonly found in most basic surge and spike protectors.

They are very basic, but effective for most surges and spikes WHEN NEW.

They are NOT filters. A filter will remove noise from the incoming AC waveform and make minor adjustments to attenuate or boost, as necessary, for "minor" deviations from the expected line-in voltage. This is what the AVR (automatic voltage regulation) feature of a "good" UPS with AVR does.

With your and similar devices, when they encounter "minor" surges and spikes, the MOVs will absorb the excess voltage and convert it to heat where it then will [hopefully] dissipate away. For excessive surges and spikes, this device will simply "clamp" or chop off the tops of the voltage sinewaves. That is effective at preventing damage from excessive voltage, but leaves a very ugly (dirty - unfiltered) waveform for the connected devices to deal with. NOT IDEAL. And with extreme surges and spikes, they simply cut power (“IF” working properly), crashing your computer - never good.

Another, often overlooked problem with surge and spike protectors is they do NOT age well. MOVs wear out. EVERY time they take a hit from a surge or spike, it ages them a little. The bigger and/or more frequent the hits, the faster the aging. And over time, and not much time , they essentially become useless. This is why it is recommended surge and spike protectors be replaced every 2 years.

Sadly, there typically is no way to determine if the device is still effective. Some of the more expensive surge and spike protectors have indicator LEDs to indicate if still good. Most do not.


If you value your sensitive electronics and, often more importantly, the data on them, then protecting your computer from power line anomalies absolutely IS worth it.

ah yes , makes sense.

but yes , my filter is not that new i would say

i just checked and it has 2 years and 5 months of usage

but i would say my region doesn´t have that much of surges , spikes and stuff , i had one incident in like 30 years

but as you said the average filter life is 2 yearsish , yeah the filter could be a high chance at fault honestly

ah yes , makes sense.

but yes , my filter is not that new i would say

i just checked and it has 2 years and 5 months of usage

but i would say my region doesn´t have that much of surges , spikes and stuff , i had one incident in like 30 years

but as you said the average filter life is 2 yearsish , yeah the filter could be a high chance at fault honestly

and i think the old fashion of removing from the outlet during storms, spikes is the best anyway

and on a side note , is it bad to use directly on the wall ? i´ve always used things directly on the wall

i think my psu is good enough to work without filter right ?

 

[Bill_Bright]

but i would say my region doesn´t have that much of surges , spikes and stuff , i had one incident in like 30 years

They happen all the time, every day - even on good weather days. You can't see them so how would you know. Most, even destructive ones go unnoticed.

While lightning strikes somewhere on the grid are probably what most people think are the most common cause, the truth is, any number of things can cause them, from accidents to equipment failure.

And not all originate from the grid. Large appliances in the home can generate them.

Besides it only takes one excessive hit.

i think my psu is good enough to work without filter right ?

No. No PSU is immune from damage from an excessive surge or spike.

You seem to be in some sort of denial here. Not sure why. Maybe you just don't want to spend the money, I don't know. While true, you may go years and never suffer from a power anomaly. Or one could destroy your computer tomorrow.

That's why all my computers here are protected by "good" UPS with AVR. So is my big screen TV and audio equipment for my home theater setup. I even have one on my garage door opener.

I'll say this one last time then I'm moving on. In my opinion every computer should be on a "good" UPS with AVR. And it does not matter how modern or how stable your power grid is.

 

[Shrek]

i think my psu is good enough to work without filter right ?

Yes, one can work without a filter; the power supply itself has filtering and surge protection.

That said, a separate surge protector is no bad thing

Do I Need a Surge Protector? - A1 Computer Repair

A surge protector is a device that protects sensitive electronic equipment from harmful voltage spikes and power surges.

a1computerrepair.com

claims "Over 50% of equipment failures can be attributed to power surge/failure."

 

[Bill_Bright]

i think my psu is good enough to work without filter right ?

Yes, one can work without a filter; the power supply itself has filtering and surge protection.

Sorry Shrek, but that can be very misleading, considering the topic of this thread.

Will a PSU "work" without a filter? Yes. It will power up and provide power to the computer - thus it will "work".

Do PSUs have some protection from surges and spikes? Yes. But not all are equal. Budget PSUs offer minimal protection from "minor" surges and spikes. The best PSUs offer a little better. But NONE protect from "excessive" surges and spikes.

So it is not about being "good enough".

That said, a separate surge protector is no bad thing

Definitely not a bad thing. And definitely better than plugging directly into the wall outlet. And for sure, Tripp-Lite make some of the best around.

But, as noted above, even the best surge and spike protectors do absolutely nothing when hit with low voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (very long duration sags). And while those low-voltage anomalies typically are not destructive to the connected electronics, they often do result in the computer come crashing down and that can result in a corrupt boot drive and/or lost data. And again, if the surge or spike is extreme, the best even the best surge and spike protector can do is kill power to the connected devices.

claims "Over 50% of equipment failures can be attributed to power surge/failure."

I would not be surprised if, in some locations, this is even higher.

Edit comment: fixed a couple minor typos.

 

[Maxihell]

Try this solution mate. unplugged & re plug cable connector to mobo as well the ram & graphic card. I had similar issue were mine the PC keep ON & OFF itself. I did this probs solved