Starfield discussion thread

[Space Lynx]

I put about 110hrs within the 1st week or 2 of launch day. I'm also the same, I haven't picked it up since launch day. I got my for free with a AMD graphics card, I was able to get the deluxe version with 1 DLC. I"ll give it another 6 months then I'll play it again.

Same for me, it came with my 7900 XT that is in my system specs. I only put about 30 hours into it at launch, then decided to wait for patches and the expansion. I'm probably going to wait until January, then do a full play through, I might wait longer than that, we will see. My backlog is massive, so I am in no rush. I did enjoy the 30 hours I had with it though, glad I waited though, it def needed some polish. Hopefully it will get a surprise big update within the next 6 to 7 months, it might. Even if its just minor improvements, that attention to detail can go a long way.

 

[Chrispy_]

I'd rather see the base game improved and expanded on, either by mods or patches.

It won't be by mods.

Bethesda poisoned the well by making a game that the majority of the existing modders (the ones with years of experience going back to Morrowind days) aren't interested in.

Then, they tried to monetise modding while also putting restrictions in that break or forbid dependencies. That's why all the mods in Starfield are minor tweaks at best - because Bethesda have ruined modding.

 

[Event Horizon]

It won't be by mods.

Bethesda poisoned the well by making a game that the majority of the existing modders (the ones with years of experience going back to Morrowind days) aren't interested in.

Then, they tried to monetise modding while also putting restrictions in that break or forbid dependencies. That's why all the mods in Starfield are minor tweaks at best - because Bethesda have ruined modding.

Yeah, I understand we may never get large scale mods like the previous games. Mods like Fallout: London or Enderal simply won't happen due to the reasons you mentioned. Small tweaks (albeit lots of them) could be enough to interest me in another playthrough.

Just to provide some examples, I would be interested in mods that add more points of interest, rebalance if not completely redo the skill tree and starborn powers, more random encounters, rebalanced economy, expanded settlement building and management options, change or skip the starborn power minigame, add more incentives to go to NG+, more companions, more gear customisation options, more incentives to actually explore/colonise other star systems. I think there already are mods that address a few of those. I'll be checking in every few months to see what else the community can come up with.

 

[Chrispy_]

Yeah, I understand we may never get large scale mods like the previous games. Mods like Fallout: London or Enderal simply won't happen due to the reasons you mentioned. Small tweaks (albeit lots of them) could be enough to interest me in another playthrough.

Just to provide some examples, I would be interested in mods that add more points of interest, rebalance if not completely redo the skill tree and starborn powers, more random encounters, rebalanced economy, expanded settlement building and management options, change or skip the starborn power minigame, add more incentives to go to NG+, more companions, more gear customisation options, more incentives to actually explore/colonise other star systems. I think there already are mods that address a few of those. I'll be checking in every few months to see what else the community can come up with.

So mods that add more content, to make the open world outside of the main quests feel less like a barren wasteland of boring nothingness?

Bethesda were supposed to do that bit, and they failed. All of the random encounters and points of interest are what made the Fallout and Elder Scrolls games good, despite the horrific acting, ridiculous quantity of bugs, and often tedious fetch-quests. They were open worlds, worthy of exploring - and you as a player had agency.

I didn't actually mod Fallout or Skyrim much, unless you count Fallout London, or basic community patches for Elder Scrolls games that were otherwise riddled with playthrough-ending quest bugs.

 

[Launcestonian]

Yeah, I understand we may never get large scale mods like the previous games. Mods like Fallout: London or Enderal simply won't happen due to the reasons you mentioned. Small tweaks (albeit lots of them) could be enough to interest me in another playthrough.

Just to provide some examples, I would be interested in mods that add more points of interest, rebalance if not completely redo the skill tree and starborn powers, more random encounters, rebalanced economy, expanded settlement building and management options, change or skip the starborn power minigame, add more incentives to go to NG+, more companions, more gear customisation options, more incentives to actually explore/colonise other star systems. I think there already are mods that address a few of those. I'll be checking in every few months to see what else the community can come up with.

That's a bit of a defeatist attitude to large scale mods isn't it? I mean this game is barely 2 yrs old & you draw that conclusion already? How many large scale mods were for Skyrim or FO4 barely 2 yrs after they were launched? Obviously the only reason previous Bethesda releases have large volume of all kinds of mods is purely because of the passing of time. Give SF a few more years & see what comes out from the modding community.
As far as I'm concerned I would neve touch large scale mods in SF until they have matured quite a bit. I'm sick n' tired of playthroughs in any Bethesda game where you get to a critical point in a quest & it breaks. My gaming time is too valuable to gamble with that crap. I'll stick with vanilla patched up for quite a while yet.

 

[Chrispy_]

That's a bit of a defeatist attitude to large scale mods isn't it? I mean this game is barely 2 yrs old & you draw that conclusion already? How many large scale mods were for Skyrim or FO4 barely 2 yrs after they were launched? Obviously the only reason previous Bethesda releases have large volume of all kinds of mods is purely because of the passing of time. Give SF a few more years & see what comes out from the modding community.
As far as I'm concerned I would neve touch large scale mods in SF until they have matured quite a bit. I'm sick n' tired of playthroughs in any Bethesda game where you get to a critical point in a quest & it breaks. My gaming time is too valuable to gamble with that crap. I'll stick with vanilla patched up for quite a while yet.

Bethesda has locked-down and monetised modding now, that's the difference.
They've simultaneously poisoned the well and then kicked the creators who supported Skyrim/FO4 while they're down.

 

[A&P211]

Same for me, it came with my 7900 XT that is in my system specs. I only put about 30 hours into it at launch, then decided to wait for patches and the expansion. I'm probably going to wait until January, then do a full play through, I might wait longer than that, we will see. My backlog is massive, so I am in no rush. I did enjoy the 30 hours I had with it though, glad I waited though, it def needed some polish. Hopefully it will get a surprise big update within the next 6 to 7 months, it might. Even if its just minor improvements, that attention to detail can go a long way.

It was very polished on launch day, within the hrs that I played, I would say I've only gotten 2 crashes.

 

[Launcestonian]

Bethesda has locked-down and monetised modding now, that's the difference.
They've simultaneously poisoned the well and then kicked the creators who supported Skyrim/FO4 while they're down.

Then that's too bad, just have to live with it & the world keeps turning...

 

[Frick]

It won't be by mods.

It also won't be by Bethesda. I genuinely believe this is the best they can do. Maybe, just maybe, if they hire some decent writers and like a designer who isn't named Todd maybe they'll be able to make one properly good DLC, but that won't do any good for the base game. I genuniely don't see how they can meaningfully improve that without scrapping everything and start over and make it into a non-Bethesda game.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

It also won't be by Bethesda. I genuinely believe this is the best they can do. Maybe, just maybe, if they hire some decent writers and like a designer who isn't named Todd maybe they'll be able to make one properly good DLC, but that won't do any good for the base game. I genuniely don't see how they can meaningfully improve that without scrapping everything and start over and make it into a non-Bethesda game.

Respectfully, I disagree. There's a path directly to fixing everything wrong.

The path forward is a bold one, but I think that it's very much possible.
1) Commit to either modding or not modding. Given internal skill, I'd suggest modding.
2) Remove the caps on modding that this game installed.
3) Host a contest. A real one. Fan submitted mods, make it last the entire summer, and offer cash prizes to the COMMUNITY voted best mods.
4) Take the community patches, incorporate them while giving credit, and do not pretend this is a "right" for Bethesda.
5) Offer paid mods more accurately priced to what they bring, and package some. The best thing about Fallout and Skyrim mods were the packs of things that synergized.

6) Publicly apologize for Fallout 76. No BS. No corporate speak. Take the beating you earned, and promise that you will not streamline more of the game into nothingness.
7) Apologize for the Oblivion remake, stop being a dick and trying to kill Skyblivion, and incorporate the community patch into your official release so your nearly 20 year old game isn't such a buggy mess. Do all of this while crediting the community.
8) Stop the crap with locking achievements if you mod...but allowing it with the mods you want to sell. Some of those mods break the game harder than my visual overhauls...but I'm stuck with having to mod out the locks.


Basically, Bethesda would have to revert to where they were with Fallout 3. The thing is, they still don't believe they've done anything wrong. If you cannot see anything wrong, then why change? Todd Howard and his merry band of idiots would have to recognize that radiant quest slop is toxic, consciously decide that instead of using AI to write their dialog and voice their characters to make the slop complete they'd need to reintroduce personality, and to give up on Gamebryo as a crutch. I...believe that my pinky toe is going to detach, grow a mouth, and sing opera in the next ten minutes more than I believe that Bethesda has the chutzpah to follow the path back to consumer success, when they have a problem identifying it over their huge piles of money that appear every time they squeeze out another new version of the same game they've made since Fallout 3.

 

[Chrispy_]

It also won't be by Bethesda. I genuinely believe this is the best they can do.

Bethesda and Blizzard/Activision are both like this. Trying so hard but completely clueless on how to make a good game these days because all of the design talent abandoned ship to start their own projects away from the dictatorship of a massive, controlling publisher.

1) Commit to either modding or not modding. Given internal skill, I'd suggest modding.
2) Remove the caps on modding that this game installed.
3) Host a contest. A real one. Fan submitted mods, make it last the entire summer, and offer cash prizes to the COMMUNITY voted best mods.
4) Take the community patches, incorporate them while giving credit, and do not pretend this is a "right" for Bethesda.
5) Offer paid mods more accurately priced to what they bring, and package some. The best thing about Fallout and Skyrim mods were the packs of things that synergized.
6) Publicly apologize for Fallout 76. No BS. No corporate speak. Take the beating you earned, and promise that you will not streamline more of the game into nothingness.
7) Apologize for the Oblivion remake, stop being a dick and trying to kill Skyblivion, and incorporate the community patch into your official release so your nearly 20 year old game isn't such a buggy mess. Do all of this while crediting the community.
8) Stop the crap with locking achievements if you mod...but allowing it with the mods you want to sell. Some of those mods break the game harder than my visual overhauls...but I'm stuck with having to mod out the locks.

I would imagine that the overwhelming majority of the talent at Bethesda handed in their resignation after raising these points repeatedly, having them all ignored repeatedly, and watching the company go to ruin.

Your list of fixes for Bethesda are fairly obvious fixes that have been suggested on Forums, livestreams, both third-party and directly on Bethesda's own channels. Bethesda could have taken any of these solutions onboard themselves at any point in the last two decades, but they didn't. Senior management chose to make Bethesda the obstructive d***heads of a company that they've always been, and they continually chose to keep it on that path.

Don't have any sympathy for them, they ruined their own company and they deserved it. The people who made the Bethesda games you loved are still making games you love, just not at Bethesda.

 

[Frick]

Respectfully, I disagree. There's a path directly to fixing everything wrong.

The path forward is a bold one, but I think that it's very much possible.
1) Commit to either modding or not modding. Given internal skill, I'd suggest modding.
2) Remove the caps on modding that this game installed.
3) Host a contest. A real one. Fan submitted mods, make it last the entire summer, and offer cash prizes to the COMMUNITY voted best mods.
4) Take the community patches, incorporate them while giving credit, and do not pretend this is a "right" for Bethesda.
5) Offer paid mods more accurately priced to what they bring, and package some. The best thing about Fallout and Skyrim mods were the packs of things that synergized.

6) Publicly apologize for Fallout 76. No BS. No corporate speak. Take the beating you earned, and promise that you will not streamline more of the game into nothingness.
7) Apologize for the Oblivion remake, stop being a dick and trying to kill Skyblivion, and incorporate the community patch into your official release so your nearly 20 year old game isn't such a buggy mess. Do all of this while crediting the community.
8) Stop the crap with locking achievements if you mod...but allowing it with the mods you want to sell. Some of those mods break the game harder than my visual overhauls...but I'm stuck with having to mod out the locks.


Basically, Bethesda would have to revert to where they were with Fallout 3. The thing is, they still don't believe they've done anything wrong. If you cannot see anything wrong, then why change? Todd Howard and his merry band of idiots would have to recognize that radiant quest slop is toxic, consciously decide that instead of using AI to write their dialog and voice their characters to make the slop complete they'd need to reintroduce personality, and to give up on Gamebryo as a crutch. I...believe that my pinky toe is going to detach, grow a mouth, and sing opera in the next ten minutes more than I believe that Bethesda has the chutzpah to follow the path back to consumer success, when they have a problem identifying it over their huge piles of money that appear every time they squeeze out another new version of the same game they've made since Fallout 3.

We might have different ideas of what is wrong with the game, but I can't imagine any amount of modding fixing what I think is bad with it. And honestly ... I think the lack of interest modders has for this game is a good thing (because I'm not a fan of mods)! Also I'm not a fan of fans of any kind, and "game design by internet community vote" is abhorrent.

Bethesda and Blizzard/Activision are both like this. Trying so hard but completely clueless on how to make a good game these days because all of the design talent abandoned ship to start their own projects away from the dictatorship of a massive, controlling publisher.

I will argue Bethesda has been like this for longer than Blizzard has been, but sure. But I will also say Starfield is the only Bethesda game I have ever played I well and truly like. Make of that what you will (it just means my tastes are normally not shared by many others).

 

[Launcestonian]

Can't sell the Starborn or Constellation ships even with NG+ playthrough. At least I should be able to sell the Starborn ship! all this in patched up vanilla game.

 

[Onasi]

I would imagine that the overwhelming majority of the talent at Bethesda handed in their resignation after raising these points repeatedly, having them all ignored repeatedly, and watching the company go to ruin.

Talent has been leaking out of Beth for years now. There is legitimately nobody left anymore that was directly involved in their most successful games. The longest running designer was Kurt Kuhlmann and he also left after Starfield. Todd is unironically probably the most tenured person left there and he is no game designer these days, whatever the title, he is essentially a producer. And the main creative lead is now fucking Emil, so I have zero expectations for them producing anything worthwhile. And by that I mean even Skyrim-tier mediocrity, I have long given up on them ever reproducing Morrowind. Just as well, really, Morrowind is eternal and immortal at this point, if I want more Morrowind I get yearly massive drops from the teams at Tamriel Rebuilt and Project Tamriel.

 

[cinemaware]

Basically, Bethesda would have to revert to where they were with Fallout 3. The thing is, they still don't believe they've done anything wrong. If you cannot see anything wrong, then why change?

I knew I should refrain on clicking on this thread....oh boy

This, and most of the grievance list you produced is an interesting variation on peak-delusion anti-Bethesda slop we see all over the web. Let's see:

-"Given internal skill, I'd suggest modding" - I suppose you're aiming at the popular "modders fix the games for them" trope. And that's why I used the word "delusion" earlier, because a) the games they make are of unprecedented complexity and so will always have bugs, b) if CDPR or some other holy cow released modding tools and engine so amazingly flexible and malleable it’d be hailed as a 2nd coming.

-about mods in general: they maybe could or couldn't do some things differently but no matter what they would do some people would be still unhappy. So far as I am concerned, if the mods are still available free on Nexus then that's just fine, the rest is what it is

-apologize for Fallout 76? You mean, that very successful MMO that is still going on strong? That was slated at the beginning, mostly because online people were drunk on anti-Beth sentiments? All right then

-"Apologize for the Oblivion remake" One of the best received games this year? "All right then" x2.

-"Stop being a dick and trying to kill Skyblivion"? Brother, what are you smoking? You surely must realize that they bent over backwards to accommodate the Skyblivion team, not only not trying to kill them, like most other parties would (hello Ninty, R*, et al), but praising them, giving free Remaster copies, inviting on studio tour, etc....

-"Bethesda would have to revert to where they were with Fallout 3." So, delete Skyrim and Fallout 4, those total failures, you mean? Go back to the game that people like you already hated so, so much because it wasn't their beloved 2D Fallout? "All right then" x3

This reply should include the dreck from @Chrispy_ as well while we're here, so, ok I see you're not a fan But, if the management are really such total "obstructive D*****s", can you please explain how did they manage to produce a string of multi-million selling, award-winning hits "over the last two decades"?

As for Starfield itself, yes, it's definitely the weakest Bethesda game. But I doubt this has very much to do with M$ or "senior management". The design has been going on for years before buyout. And the game's problems stem from the fact that they tried to do something completely new, which is understandable (just like CDPR when they
tried with CP2077).
By setting it in space, on multiple planets, they faced the impossible task of marrying an engine based on cells with space travel, which is incompatible with extensive loading screens. This affects the whole "live a life" thing and general world persistence and believability. Also, the post launch support is lacking, they should produce more meaningful and gameplay impacting DLC than Shattered Space.

Even though, the "weakest" doesn't mean it’s a disaster. I played it for a good 60 hours and had a lot of fun. But, bethsoft-hating is one of the internet commenter's most favourite pastimes, so let's not such details get in a way of a good pile-on.

 

[Chrispy_]

This reply should include the dreck from @Chrispy_ as well while we're here, so, ok I see you're not a fan But, if the management are really such total "obstructive D*****s", can you please explain how did they manage to produce a string of multi-million selling, award-winning hits "over the last two decades"?

Blizzard used to be great, too. Diablo, Warcraft, WoW, Hearthstone, Heck, even Overwatch was decent even if it wasn't very original. D4 was controversial, it was briefly fun with friends, but any Diablo fan can tell you the game has lost its soul and the technical/design issues brought the remaining shell of Blizzard/Activision into question. Overwatch2 was such a flop because of obstructive management/publisher behaviour - pushing the enshitification of gaming with battle-pass nonsense, forced termination of OW1 to push players to OW2 and breaking a bunch of promises in the process....

Companies can have a very successful back catalogue and yet now be terrible in the present day. All three Microsoft-owned studios (Bethesda, Blizzard, Activision) seem to be in terminal decline. Maybe the rough patch they're going through is just temporary - but my understanding is that the talent behind the games that made those studios huge (and hugely successful) has gone to form/lead other studios and all that's left of Bethesda, Blizzard, and Activision's original glory is the copyright on the IP.

Don't take my word for it, go and read the many posts from ex-employees of those big studios. Some of it is on Reddit, like disgruntled ex-employee and anonymous current-employee insider whistleblowing. Some of it is in published interviews and mainstream media - The lawsuits, allegations, PR-disasters, executive firings, and other nasty stuff that hit the news surrounding the Blizzard/Activision sexual misconduct, harassment, and discrimination scandals. Bethesda themselves haven't been involved the PR and legal disasters like that, but there's plenty of noise from both inside and outside the company about overpromising and underdelivering, a loss of focus, mismanagement, decline in quality, monetisation of goodwill work from the unpaid community developers that have propped up Bethesda for two decades.... Need I go on?

In isolation, Starfied was a C-tier game for me. Not great, not awful. It was disappointing and broken for a game that had so many people working on it, and surprisingly bad for something that spent an extra year of delay in the "polishing" phase when it's a much smaller game than Skyrim was and launched in a much worse technical state. It's not an open-world game, it's four "cities" and half a dozen campaign setpieces that would normally make an on-rails game, except blizzard shoehorned it into an open-world that's almost entirely empty. I played it from start to finish and enjoyed it for what it was but also found the balance of enjoyable parts vs Bethesda annoyances tipped far further toward the side of Bethesda annoyances than previous games. The open-world that made previous Bethesda games so good was also dead, and that made me sad.