Banana Pi Announces BPI-R4 Open Source Router SBC With WiFi 7 and 5G Capabilities

[Fouquin]

Banana Pi recently released the specifications of their upcoming BPI-R4 router SBC with a host of new connectivity and features over the last generation BPI-R3. The new BPI-R4 adds dual 10GbE via the SFP ports, with a second board design offering 10GbE+2.5GbE instead, as well as a large daughterboard addon that enables 36 Gbps tri-band WiFi 7 and fits to a pair of mPCIE connectors on the bottom. There is also now support for 5G cellular via a M.2 B-Key port laid over the top of a trio of NanoSIM card slots. Enabling this improvement in connectivity is the updated MediaTek 'Filogic 880' MT7988A SoC which features four Cortex-A73 cores at 1.8 GHz as well as a host of dedicated improvements specifically tuned for high speed networking which combines most functions into the single SoC. Now instead of surrounding the main processor with a host of co-processing chips like the BPI-R3 did, the BPI-R4 simply surrounds the SoC with 8 GB of DDR4 and an 8 GB eMMC flash module. The remaining wireless logic now lives on the NIC daughterboard. The BPI-R4 does give up one of its gigabit RJ-45 ports despite the topside space savings, but reuses this empty space by offering an optional plug-in POE module, and both a 12 V power input as well as 20 V USB-PD with the added Type-C port.

Features retained from previous generations are the M.2 M-Key for SSD storage expansion, a microSD card slot, rear facing USB 3.2 Type-A, the bootstrap toggle switch, and 26-pin GPIO. The BPI-R4 retains roughly the same physical dimensions as the BPI-R3 except for the additional height from the WiFi 7 module which hugs the bottom of the main board when installed. The BPI-R4, like its predecessors, will support Debian Linux and OpenWRT at launch with images available on the Banana Pi wiki product page. Banana Pi hopes to launch the BPI-R4 by Q1 2024 and has yet to announce any pricing. Our hope is that pricing stays roughly in line with the BPI-R3 which launched at just shy of $90 USD. Given the swath of new technologies on the BPI-R4 it's a fair guess that it is going to be over the $100 mark.



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[Ferrum Master]

From where you even got the hope this costing around 100€? At least x2.5 it.

While I really like the R3 and currently use it as daily driver... it has some weird choices made, and this router has them even more, regarding PCB design and features. At least I hope they didn't gimp on proper CPU PMU on this one.

 

[zlobby]

Take notes, MikroTik!

 

[LabRat 891]

Anyone make something like this, but all 10gBASE-T, and no wireless modems?
Messing with those SFP+ transceivers are a very expensive proposition, and I've read MANY reports of BASE-T transceivers having significantly less 'range' over 4p8c.

All I want is 10G over CAT6A (or better). No wi-fi. No Cellular. Just a friggin router I can configure and deploy for my SOHO LAN.

 

[Nephilim666]

Anyone make something like this, but all 10gBASE-T, and no wireless modems?
Messing with those SFP+ transceivers are a very expensive proposition, and I've read MANY reports of BASE-T transceivers having significantly less 'range' over 4p8c.

All I want is 10G over CAT6A (or better). No wi-fi. No Cellular. Just a friggin router I can configure and deploy for my SOHO LAN.

This guy gets it. First to make will get my money.

 

[zlobby]

Anyone make something like this, but all 10gBASE-T, and no wireless modems?
Messing with those SFP+ transceivers are a very expensive proposition, and I've read MANY reports of BASE-T transceivers having significantly less 'range' over 4p8c.

All I want is 10G over CAT6A (or better). No wi-fi. No Cellular. Just a friggin router I can configure and deploy for my SOHO LAN.

10Gig over long distances is done via FO anyway...

Edit: I don't want to get started but 10Gig routers that can actually handle such traffic with complex rules are quite expensive. That $100 mark is there for a reason.

I howevr like the option to put my own WiFi and 5G modems there.

 

[ymdhis]

Should've made the RJ45 ports 2.5Gbit. Huge missed opportunity there.

 

[zlobby]

Should've made the RJ45 ports 2.5Gbit. Huge missed opportunity there.

Thiiiiiis! I can't give enough rep for that!

Most 5G cells can do way over 1Gbps, let alone the WiFi. You could do lot of good with 2.5GbE ports!

 

[ymdhis]

Take notes, MikroTik!

Pretty sure Mikrotik already has a router which has 1-2x SFP+ 10gbit and 4x RJ45 1gbit ports. I did a quick check and I saw one with 1x SFP+, 1x 2.5G RJ45 and 16x 1G RJ45. Of course that was $220.

Anyone make something like this, but all 10gBASE-T, and no wireless modems?
Messing with those SFP+ transceivers are a very expensive proposition, and I've read MANY reports of BASE-T transceivers having significantly less 'range' over 4p8c.

All I want is 10G over CAT6A (or better). No wi-fi. No Cellular. Just a friggin router I can configure and deploy for my SOHO LAN.

A 10GbE RJ45 only router won't happen any time soon because it is overkill for nearly all home office situations. If having more than 1gbit network is mission critical, then you should be in a type of business where you are able to afford a $600 all-SFP+ port router plus half a dozen transceivers (and/or setting up an optical network). So basically there's no financial incentive to make those things cheaper, as the only people who NEED the heavy duty stuff can afford exorbitant prices.

I'd much rather have routers make the jump to all-port 2.5gbit, at an affordable rate. Something like a 2.5gbit version of the hEX with a heavily upgraded CPU, for at most $100.

 

[Nephilim666]

Imagine gatekeeping high end networking from home users.

 

[LabRat 891]

A 10GbE RJ45 only router won't happen any time soon because it is overkill for nearly all home office situations. If having more than 1gbit network is mission critical, then you should be in a type of business where you are able to afford a $600 all-SFP+ port router plus half a dozen transceivers (and/or setting up an optical network). So basically there's no financial incentive to make those things cheaper, as the only people who NEED the heavy duty stuff can afford exorbitant prices.

I'd much rather have routers make the jump to all-port 2.5gbit, at an affordable rate. Something like a 2.5gbit version of the hEX with a heavily upgraded CPU, for at most $100.

I can 'see' your point, I don't have to like it, though. Overall, I agree that there needs to be something over 1000BASE-T for 'consumers'.
Problem is, I just don't have any hope for 2.5gbps anytime soon, either. Intel's first NICs for that spec, didn't exactly inspire confidence in "widespread adoption". 10gbe OTOH has been around and reliable for 'ages' in-industry.

Imagine gatekeeping high end networking from home users.

Agreed, but.
If there's not financial incentives in it, ya can't expect companies to bother. -it used to allow for other companies and startups to 'fill that niche'. 'IDK what's going on' these days in corporate culture and investment strategies.

This guy gets it. First to make will get my money.

I'd be happy w/ a company that was willing to tear-down retired 10gbE, and 'kit bash' it into/onto their own PCBs. (Kinda like those 'import x99, etc' boards that use salvaged server chipsets)
IMO, If they could give a decent warranty and provide actual documentation... At least, no one would be forgetting their name anytime soon.

 

[ymdhis]

I can 'see' your point, I don't have to like it, though. Overall, I agree that there needs to be something over 1000BASE-T for 'consumers'.
Problem is, I just don't have any hope for 2.5gbps anytime soon, either. Intel's first NICs for that spec, didn't exactly inspire confidence in "widespread adoption". 10gbe OTOH has been around and reliable for 'ages' in-industry.

What exactly would consumers do where 1GbE is too slow? Very few ISPs have faster internet, and there aren't many situations where you need more on a local network. Even something silly like having 16x cameras on a single network would not be bandwidth limited on a gigabit line. Same reason why every NAS is still using 1GbE - most people use it for media streaming and cloud storage, so no need for more. Higher speed networks are only really needed for enterprise stuff.

But, if you just want a 10GbE home network, Mikrotik has some SFP+ only switches and you can get transceivers relatively cheap. By that I mean relative to the cost of putting 10GbE RJ45 ports into your PCs to begin with. CRS305-1G-4S+IN is $149, S+RJ10 transceiver is $69, and 10GbE RJ45 network cards for PCs start at what, $89?

That's why I'd rather have 2.5GbE gain widespread adoption first; there are actually chipsets coming out for that which use low power, and nearly all new PC motherboards come with them too. There's competition and there's a market.

Also keep in mind that at the cheaper end of the networking hardware, 100mbit RJ45 is still common.

 

[thestryker6]

With any luck Realtek will do well with their lower power >2.5gb networking hardware which will allow for more adoption of higher speed networking. I've had 10gb between my primary machine and server for years and wouldn't want to go to anything slower, even 2.5gb, but expanding beyond those two systems isn't economically viable for me. Networking hardware wise everything above 1gb carries a huge price premium, and we're just now starting to see some more affordable 2.5gb.

Anyone make something like this, but all 10gBASE-T, and no wireless modems?
Messing with those SFP+ transceivers are a very expensive proposition, and I've read MANY reports of BASE-T transceivers having significantly less 'range' over 4p8c.

All I want is 10G over CAT6A (or better). No wi-fi. No Cellular. Just a friggin router I can configure and deploy for my SOHO LAN.

The wireless on this device is all contained within the daughter board so to an extent that aspect is optional.

Unless there's a consumer networking revolution I doubt we'll see much RJ45 10gb anytime soon. The power consumption is much higher than SFP and enterprise uses fiber for distances so SFP is just far more common. Even the router boxes now coming out of china that have 10gb are older Intel based SFP rather than RJ45.

Should've made the RJ45 ports 2.5Gbit. Huge missed opportunity there.

Simply not feasible due to the MediaTek platform only supporting 4x 1gb with the other two ports being either 10gb or 2.5gb.

 

[Ferrum Master]

FYI.

I use two SFP to copper 2.5Gb transceivers, those are cheap and in the m.2 slot I have put an Intel 225v there, man that IC is a buggy piece of shit. Long story short, just disable any hw offloading and it becomes rock stable. You can use a pcie riser and put a dual NIC. It has two pcie lanes.

So I have 3 2.5Gb ports on BPI R3. It very overpowered router actually and software wise due to the fact that it is Mediatek, it is fine and pretty well maintained with working HW accelerations.

10Gbe is not really feasible for home price and energy wise.

There are no cheap Mediatek switches, so the multiport part is only gigabit. The high speed ports are just direct paths from the CPU, thus it does not need any added parts.

If only this board would put a proper angled pcie port like zima board and quit the monkey show pretending to make this board to be like NAS.

 

[LabRat 891]

What exactly would consumers do where 1GbE is too slow? What exactly would consumers do where 1GbE is too slow? Very few ISPs have faster internet, and there aren't many situations where you need more on a local network.

I wonder what makes people feel so inclined, to know better what to do with one's owned-equipment?
Truly, I'm getting sick and tired of that attitude everywhere.

Here's just a few things off the top of my head:
-Multiple systems w/ Gen3/4/5 NVMe/RAID drives.
-Imaging.
-Game Installs.
-Media transfers.
-(uncompressed, low-latency) KVM/Game Streaming
-On-Property WAN (fibre would be appropriate here)

I have at least 2 dual-RJ45 NICs. I don't think either cost me more than $40. I'd imagine If you got crafty with the 'reverse slot' cards, it could be even less $$.

 

[Nucleoprotein]

Anyone make something like this, but all 10gBASE-T, and no wireless modems?
Messing with those SFP+ transceivers are a very expensive proposition, and I've read MANY reports of BASE-T transceivers having significantly less 'range' over 4p8c.

All I want is 10G over CAT6A (or better). No wi-fi. No Cellular. Just a friggin router I can configure and deploy for my SOHO LAN.

WiFi is a mPCIe add-on cards, just not use it?

 

[LabRat 891]

WiFi is a mPCIe add-on cards, just not use it?

If such a thing existed (all 10gbase-t ports), I'd happily repurpose the modem/wi-fi slot.
I just would prefer to not have to pay for features I plan to remove (unless I have a re-purposing in mind for the removed component).

To get the features I desire, at a reasonable price... I'd happily deal with that (minimal) problem .

 

[TheLostSwede]

If some of you are seriously interested in a custom router board, it's something I could help with, but you need to cough up an NRE fee of between US$25-50k to start with, since it'll be a custom board.
That doesn't include software development, which might cost as much again, if not more.

I'm sure it would be possible to do something around US$100-150 with at least 5 Gbps, now that Realtek is coming out with affordable PHYs, maybe an extra $50 for a pair of 10 Gbps copper ports.

10Gbe is not really feasible for home price and energy wise.

Most WiFi 7 routers seem to have support for two to four 10 Gbps ports. Costs are coming down and power usage isn't that bad.
Then again, it looks like 5 Gbps might be viable with Realtek's new chips, which consume just a tad more power than their 2.5 Gbps solution.

 

[thestryker6]

I just would prefer to not have to pay for features I plan to remove (unless I have a re-purposing in mind for the removed component).

This unit is likely to be very expensive compared to previous boards so I wouldn't be surprised if they were sold separately as a way to lower the price of entry for folks who don't want wireless/cellular.

If such a thing existed (all 10gbase-t ports), I'd happily repurpose the modem/wi-fi slot.

Barring Realtek bringing something revolutionary (for consumer) to the market you're never going to see such a thing. There's no money in it for any other maker as they're all selling 10/40/100 SFP to enterprise markets and consumer is a rounding error. Just look at Intel and how lackadaisical they've been regarding their 2.5gbe products. If I had any need for a router with 10gb I'd be looking at one of these due to the RJ45s being 2.5gb:

 

[Mussels]

Anyone make something like this, but all 10gBASE-T, and no wireless modems?
Messing with those SFP+ transceivers are a very expensive proposition, and I've read MANY reports of BASE-T transceivers having significantly less 'range' over 4p8c.

All I want is 10G over CAT6A (or better). No wi-fi. No Cellular. Just a friggin router I can configure and deploy for my SOHO LAN.

Just buy a switch and use it with your existing network, if that's all the features you want

 

[LabRat 891]

Just buy a switch and use it with your existing network, if that's all the features you want

I haven't seen a 4-port or more 10gbase-t switch that's anywhere near 'user friendly' to configure, *and* affordable (<$2-300). I've (accidentally) almost bought 2, until I started reading the documentation.

 

[TheLostSwede]

I haven't seen a 4-port or more 10gbase-t switch that's anywhere near 'user friendly' to configure, and affordable. I (accidentally) almost bought 2, until I started reading the documentation.

How about https://www.qnap.com/en/product/qsw-2104-2t

Or https://www.tp-link.com/my/business-networking/unmanaged-switch/tl-sx105/

 

[Mussels]

I haven't seen a 4-port or more 10gbase-t switch that's anywhere near 'user friendly' to configure, *and* affordable (<$2-300). I've (accidentally) almost bought 2, until I started reading the documentation.

A switch is a switch, they don't need to be configureable for local transfers - do all the fancy work with an existing router

Prices vary per region, but this one's half the price of the TPlinks online here in Au

Edimax GS-1005BE 5-Port 2.5 Gigabit Switch: Network Switches: Amazon.com.au

This ones got a shitty listingsince its "for use with wifi 6 AP" and it implies it has wifi6

Options exist, just go unmanaged and merge with existing network.

 

[LabRat 891]

How about https://www.qnap.com/en/product/qsw-2104-2t

Or https://www.tp-link.com/my/business-networking/unmanaged-switch/tl-sx105/

The second link is nearly perfect. Clearly, there's been some improvements in the market since I last took a serious look.

@Mussels
The couple 24-port switches I was looking at for ~$110-140 were not simple plug n play, or easily put into an unmanaged-like mode. IIRC, It looked like they are commonly 'that cheap' precisely because of the unfriendliness.

 

[zlobby]

Pretty sure Mikrotik already has a router which has 1-2x SFP+ 10gbit and 4x RJ45 1gbit ports. I did a quick check and I saw one with 1x SFP+, 1x 2.5G RJ45 and 16x 1G RJ45. Of course that was $220.

I'd much rather have routers make the jump to all-port 2.5gbit, at an affordable rate. Something like a 2.5gbit version of the hEX with a heavily upgraded CPU, for at most $100.

MT have such router but it's not modular and accepts only legacy WiFi and LTE cards.

They have nothing remotely close to this particular offering.