Cooling setup help and possible modding…

[HerbieSpot]

Seeing as techpowerup did a rather good review on my particular case, I thought I’d swing by and ask for some advice!

I'm wanting to build a system to mainly do emulation and a little gaming. I've decided to use my old HTPC case. It's a monster of a case for storage but a little lacking in space in certain areas

Anyway, I'm not so much after help in which components to get, I'm more after advice on improving cooling.

Take a look at the pictures I've posted and I'll explain my plan, parts and possible ideas... Any feedback would be most appreciated!
The case I'm using is the OrigenAE S21T

Below are the parts I have with the exception of the PCI fan

(1) 120mm rear exhaust fans - Noctua NF-A12x25
(2) CPU Cooler - Noctua NH-U12A (Cooling a Ryzen 5 5600G)
(3) PCI Exhuast Fan - YET TO PURCHASE
(4) x2 92mm intake fans - Noctua NF-A9

The 92mm intake fans blow are in from the front of the case upwards, the air is then exhausted out of the back of the case by the 120mm fan. There are no other exhaust fans, and when the PSU and CPU cooler are fitted the centre and right hand side of the case will be quite cramped. So essentially the basic air flow is front to back.

I will have my hard drives on the right hand side of the case and more than likely, have a long GPU which will run into the hard drive area on the left. So you'll have the fans from the GPU blowing air towards the lefthand side of the case.

I wonder if the current 120mm exhaust will deal with the excess heat, but my thought is that a big GPU will kind of divide the case and cooling will not be optimal.

My first thought was to buy one of those cheap PCI exhaust fans and some vented pci brackets pictured below and that would exhaust some of the heat created by the GPU. I've then toyed with the idea of cutting a fan hole or two in either the left hand side of the case or in the lid (See A & B marked in yellow). (A) If two fan holes are cut then the second fan would be in the hard drive area near the front 92mm fan.

This is where my PC cooling knowledge is lacking... With the current fans installed from my list and the GPU, where is it best to locate a fan, or will my cheap PCI exhaust idea be enough?

*One thing that I wanted to ask is if I did mount two fans on the left hand side of the case, would that cancel out any air being blown by the 92mm intake? Presumably the air coming in would be sucked out before reaching the rest of the case. Following that train of thought would it not be better to have one or two fans at the back of the case so the 92mm fan can blow air along unhindered? I not sure I understand the airflow pressure and how fan orientations effect that so hence my cry for help

OrigenAE did have a GPU cooler accessory for this very issue but the case is old and try as I might, I can't find one

http://www.origenae.co.uk/en/accessory_xds21.htm

Hope you guys can help

 

[oobymach]

That accessory looks like a 120mm fan sideways in a metal sleeve , I use an evercool fox blower fan pointed at the gpu fans to feed air to my gpu, I use wire to secure it in an odd position.

 

[HerbieSpot]

That accessory looks like a 120mm fan sideways in a metal sleeve , I use an evercool fox blower fan pointed at the gpu fans to feed air to my gpu, I use wire to secure it in an odd position.

Is it in a case with limited airflow like mine will be when all the components are installed? How effective is the fox blower?

 

[oobymach]

Is it in a case with limited airflow like mine will be when all the components are installed? How effective is the fox blower?

Very, the fan is a true blower that flings air outward at a very good rate for its size. It can put air right where you need it, the fox 3 I haven't tested but it can fit in a small space and produce targeted airflow, I use the fox 2 version with the metal slot mount removed and it feeds air from the front and lower intake fans into the space below my gpu.

The fan quality isn't the greatest (mine has a startup noise but I've been using it for years) but for the amount of air it moves compared to a traditional fan I would recommend it, though not the easiest thing to mount you may have to get creative with wire or zip ties.

 

[HerbieSpot]

Very, the fan is a true blower that flings air outward at a very good rate for its size. It can put air right where you need it, the fox 3 I haven't tested but it can fit in a small space and produce targeted airflow, I use the fox 2 version with the metal slot mount removed and it feeds air from the front and lower intake fans into the space below my gpu.

The fan quality isn't the greatest (mine has a startup noise but I've been using it for years) but for the amount of air it moves compared to a traditional fan I would recommend it, though not the easiest thing to mount you may have to get creative with wire or zip ties.

Could I ask where you purchase these fans and lastly what GPU is it cooling. I ask because I want to provide extra cooling to a RTX 3060

 

[looniam]

Could I ask where you purchase these fans and lastly what GPU is it cooling. I ask because I want to provide extra cooling to a RTX 3060

you don't want to be pulling air away from that 3060. just leave the extra pci-e brackets off so the cards fans can get fed cool air.

comparatively the evga 3060 i have doesn't throw the heat like the 980ti i had. yeah get an A12 for exhast but then see how it goes. still no idea what cpu your putting in there - if its lower TSDP then you might be overthinking all this.

 

[HerbieSpot]

you don't want to be pulling air away from that 3060. just leave the extra pci-e brackets off so the cards fans can get fed cool air.

comparatively the evga 3060 i have doesn't throw the heat like the 980ti i had. yeah get an A12 for exhast but then see how it goes. still no idea what cpu your putting in there - if its lower TSDP then you might be overthinking all this.

I have a Ryzen 5 5600G. I see where you are coming from! I’ve been obsessing over removing heat that the GPU produces and it dawned on me that GPU fans arent sucking air from the GPU, they are blowing onto it (Doh!)

Perhaps a top mesh on the lid to help as well, thoughts?

If I really wanted to add a fan opposite the GPU it would have to be an intake I assume.

Thsnks anyway for the input

 

[looniam]

I have a Ryzen 5 5600G. I see where you are coming from! I’ve been obsessing over removing heat that the GPU produces and it dawned on me that GPU fans arent sucking air from the GPU, they are blowing onto it (Doh!)

Perhaps a top mesh on the lid to help as well, thoughts?

If I really wanted to add a fan opposite the GPU it would have to be an intake I assume.

Thsnks anyway for the input

my thoughts get scary.

generally you want to feed a gpu cool air; even axials, that blow all the heat to pci-e slot/top of the card (vertical finstack). being vertically mounted/mobo i did wonder about modding the vent above (for that missing assoc.) w/one of the pci exhaust fan (above) and then get all crazy w/80/92mm for intake at the brackets themselves. just remember to keep a balance of intake/exhaust for best results.

but that R5 5600G and 3060 won't need more than ~250 watts max - that's really shouldn't be much over what the case was designed to handle - i would think.

 

[HerbieSpot]

my thoughts get scary.

generally you want to feed a gpu cool air; even axials, that blow all the heat to pci-e slot/top of the card (vertical finstack). being vertically mounted/mobo i did wonder about modding the vent above (for that missing assoc.) w/one of the pci exhaust fan (above) and then get all crazy w/80/92mm for intake at the brackets themselves. just remember to keep a balance of intake/exhaust for best results.

but that R5 5600G and 3060 won't need more than ~250 watts max - that's really shouldn't be much over what the case was designed to handle - i would think.

Great minds think alike I thought about modding the pci slot area to allow a second fan there. This however would need some sort of mounting strip and who know how I’d make one of those.
So what’s the golden rule for cooling then because I assume you are mentioning balance and meaning I don’t want negative pressure in the case?

Well at least we thrashed out some ideas

Thanks

 

[looniam]

So what’s the golden rule for cooling

whatever works!

then because I assume you are mentioning balance and meaning I don’t want negative pressure in the case?

Well at least we thrashed out some ideas

Thanks

YMMV if you go negative or positive. i maybe should phrase it a little better, for having a slight more intake (+) or exhaust (-) there is still sufficient flow to expel the heat from the case faster that it builds up. ya never get rid of heat, you just move it.

 

[doyll]

If you have the skills and tools to cut clean vent holes, I would definitely put one in GPU side centered on GPU fan/s. I say one but if there is room two on GPU side might work to flow to GPU, but GPU exhaust are will limit how much air 2x can flow in. I think I would also put an intake on CPU side of case, placing it as far forward as possible in motherboard area so it's air flows in front of and turns into CPU cooler. How much CPU clearance does it have? Distance from top of CPU to case top or distance from motherboard to top minus 8mm. I think there is enough to fit a tower cooler. I prefer side venting to top because then things can be set on top of case .. and of course is something is spilled it runs of sides, not on top of mobo.

120mm and 140mm fans are much better than 92mm. I use a hole saw myself, but there are other tools that work. Obviously need to drill fan and grill mounting holes. Black felt marker will blacken vent hole edges so they don't shine. I'm guessing 120mm will look nicer than 140mm .. not sure 140 will even fit.

I would cut a side vent for intake fan by GPU and use no PCIe back slot cover. Even vented covers restrict 50-80% of airflow.
This is because even round wire grill create turbulence and turbulence disrupts smooth airflow thus reducing it.

Vent area in needs to be about the same as vent area out. What flows in must also flow out. If vent area out is smaller than in it will limit how much air flows in.

Using both intake and exhaust fans is similar to using push / pull fans on coolers and radiators. As long as intake fans have good pressure rating and case has at least as much or more exhaust vent exhaust fans are not usually needed. Sometimes an exhaust fan will help create current of airflow from intake to exhaust, but most cases don't need both intake and exhaust fans.

I would not use PCI exhaust fan in PCIe socket as their intake area is very small and they are usually quite noisy as well. Side or top vent in with rear out will work much better in my opinion.

 

[HerbieSpot]

If you have the skills and tools to cut clean vent holes, I would definitely put one in GPU side centered on GPU fan/s. I say one but if there is room two on GPU side might work to flow to GPU, but GPU exhaust are will limit how much air 2x can flow in. I think I would also put an intake on CPU side of case, placing it as far forward as possible in motherboard area so it's air flows in front of and turns into CPU cooler. How much CPU clearance does it have? Distance from top of CPU to case top or distance from motherboard to top minus 8mm. I think there is enough to fit a tower cooler. I prefer side venting to top because then things can be set on top of case .. and of course is something is spilled it runs of sides, not on top of mobo.

120mm and 140mm fans are much better than 92mm. I use a hole saw myself, but there are other tools that work. Obviously need to drill fan and grill mounting holes. Black felt marker will blacken vent hole edges so they don't shine. I'm guessing 120mm will look nicer than 140mm .. not sure 140 will even fit.

I would cut a side vent for intake fan by GPU and use no PCIe back slot cover. Even vented covers restrict 50-80% of airflow.
This is because even round wire grill create turbulence and turbulence disrupts smooth airflow thus reducing it.

Vent area in needs to be about the same as vent area out. What flows in must also flow out. If vent area out is smaller than in it will limit how much air flows in.

Using both intake and exhaust fans is similar to using push / pull fans on coolers and radiators. As long as intake fans have good pressure rating and case has at least as much or more exhaust vent exhaust fans are not usually needed. Sometimes an exhaust fan will help create current of airflow from intake to exhaust, but most cases don't need both intake and exhaust fans.

I would not use PCI exhaust fan in PCIe socket as their intake area is very small and they are usually quite noisy as well. Side or top vent in with rear out will work much better in my opinion.

I’ve posted this topic in various forums and have formed some sort of plan and I’m open to your suggestions. I’ll detail it in a second, but answer your questions first.

The clearance from the CPU to the case lid is 190mm

The case is a OrigenAE S21T and if you follow this link it gives some space measurements. My browser on my PC threw a tantrum about the site but I can view it fine on my tablet.

What is the maximum size of vide

So here is my plan and I’ll copy and paste parts of my other post for clarity. Firstly though, I’ll attach a few pictures to illustrate how cramped it is in the system


These are pictures from a company called Steiger Dynamics who have used the company that produced the S21T to redesign a case for there needs Essentially it‘s
the same case minus one of the hard drive bays and the 12.1” screen.

My Parts
120mm rear exhaust fans - Noctua NF-A12x25 (Max airflow 102,1 m³/h / 2000rpm. https://noctua.at/en/nf-a12x25-pwm/specification
x2 92mm front intake fans - Noctua NF-A9 (Max airflow 78,9 m³/h / 2000rpm. https://noctua.at/en/nf-a9-pwm/specification
Noctua NH-U12A CPU cooler. https://noctua.at/en/nh-u12a
ROG Strix B550 gaming-f motherboard. https://rog.asus.com/uk/motherboards/rog-strix/rog-strix-b550-f-gaming-model/
16gb DDR4
PSU 750W Seasonic PRIME TX, Full Modular, 80 PLUS Titanium
Ryzen 5 5600G

My Plan

A) Opitcal cage will be removed and ssd will be mounted or left open if I go NVMe, leaving some free space for something

B) Where I plan to cut a hole for a mesh with provision for fans

C) Noctua NH-U12A CPU cooler setup as push pull

D) Exhaust fan

E) PSU

F) Right and Left 92mm intake fans blowing upwards

So on to balanced airflow…

If we look at the setup before any modding to the case, the two front 92mm fans suck in air from the bottom of the case upward and the 120mm fan exhausts at the back, with the fan on the cpu cooler doing it’s thing in a push-pull configuration.

On the left as you look at the picture I’ll be installing 4 or 5 3.5” hard drives and that side also has the PSU. This could limit air from the left hand fan. The Origen AE manual does suggest various hard drive configurations using both bays which is possible but in turn that will decrease the space for what GPU I can fit in. So ideally I’d probably stick with this setup. This then leaves the right hand intake clear, with the exception of the GPU footprint.

So, for arguments sake if I remove the GPU from the equation and just use the integrated graphics from the CPU air flow would I assume be not much of a concern with this setup.

I do however want to add a GPU, possibly a 3060.

In other discussions some nice helpful people concluded

1) A vent/mesh on the GPU side of the case would really benefit the GPU and depending on temps some intake fans could be added
2) They also pointed out that the 92mm fans blowing upwards wasn’t ideal.

I replied with the following about possible alternatives, although I may end up sticking with what I’ve got in regards to the 92mm fans

My initial setup in this case was very hard drive heavy and those fans sit under the hard drives. When the drives are mounted there is some clearance between the fan and the bottom of the hard drives and maybe 50mm open space above both hard drive bays. You can see from the pictures that I’ve grabbed of an empty case how the vents are situated for the 92mm fans. When you pointed out the possible problems with the airflow from the fans I thought whether it would be possible to mount them on the front of the case.

Any ideas? It looks tricky to me!

You have space either side of the screen but the edges of the case are rounded so that really isn’t an option. I could mount fans on the front panel behind the screen but I’d need the screen tilted while in use and just a quick look at the case and these pictures, it would appear I would have to contend with cutting the case front and an extra ridged section. Maybe either side of the drive slot would be a good place to mount them?

I know a guy who has modded these cases and replaced the screens so he may be able to shed some light on what could be done.

Anyway, take a look at the pictures and see what you think….

I thought it was a good idea to post on several forums to get a varied view and I’d be interested if anyone has any suggestions or alterations to what I’m proposing. Any help would be most appreciated

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Case needs to be taller for a cool borg ship build

 

[HerbieSpot]

Hi,
Case needs to be taller for a cool borg ship build

If only it was a bit taller, that would solve a lot of issues and a Borg build sounds interesting The idea has been assimilated!

 

[doyll]

After looking at case drawings and pics in links you post I think you can install a couple HDDs with enough room for 3060 GPU to fit with 2x 120mm side vent intakes and 1x CPU side vent intake. Case is 220mm tall so 140mm vents might look fine. 140mm fan move about 50% more than 120mm fan. As a comparison, 3x 120mm fans move about the same amount of air as 2x 140mm fans.
1x 140mm fan will supply needs of even biggest 3x 80-92mm fan GPU.
1x 140mm fan will supply all CPU side of motherboard needs.
2x 92mm stock case fans are basically worthless. Very little air can flow to the because feet on case are so short there is only a small gap for air to flow to their vents.

Optimal intake and exhaust fan clearance is same as fan diameter. 120mm fan ideally should have 120mm of open space on both sides. Obviously this is not possible in our cases. I've found 1/3rd fan diameter works well. Obviously side vents give us this clearance outside and inside of case.

You might need to remove HDD cages to cut vent holes.

How do you plan to cut vent holes? Hole saw in drill press would be ideal, but 140mm hole saws are hard to find and expensive. Could use jigsaw and file edges to final finish before painting / felt marker. They make colored paint pens for touchup and this kind of work. Apply a layer of tape on all finished surfaces to protect them while making vent holes. Obviously you want nothing electrical in the case when making the vents. Metal shavings and dust will cause shorts and damage / destroy electronics.

Bill Owen, owner of MSPC Tech in Minneapolis, Minnesota has been doing custom building for many years. He's on Facebook, Twitter, etc. Has many guides on YouTube, several about vent holes:
https://www.youtube.com/c/BillOwen_gaming_pc_case_mods_mnpctech/search?query=case mods

 

[HerbieSpot]

After looking at case drawings and pics in links you post I think you can install a couple HDDs with enough room for 3060 GPU to fit with 2x 120mm side vent intakes and 1x CPU side vent intake. Case is 220mm tall so 140mm vents might look fine. 140mm fan move about 50% more than 120mm fan. As a comparison, 3x 120mm fans move about the same amount of air as 2x 140mm fans.
1x 140mm fan will supply needs of even biggest 3x 80-92mm fan GPU.
1x 140mm fan will supply all CPU side of motherboard needs.
2x 92mm stock case fans are basically worthless. Very little air can flow to the because feet on case are so short there is only a small gap for air to flow to their vents.

Optimal intake and exhaust fan clearance is same as fan diameter. 120mm fan ideally should have 120mm of open space on both sides. Obviously this is not possible in our cases. I've found 1/3rd fan diameter works well. Obviously side vents give us this clearance outside and inside of case.

You might need to remove HDD cages to cut vent holes.

How do you plan to cut vent holes? Hole saw in drill press would be ideal, but 140mm hole saws are hard to find and expensive. Could use jigsaw and file edges to final finish before painting / felt marker. They make colored paint pens for touchup and this kind of work. Apply a layer of tape on all finished surfaces to protect them while making vent holes. Obviously you want nothing electrical in the case when making the vents. Metal shavings and dust will cause shorts and damage / destroy electronics.

Bill Owen, owner of MSPC Tech in Minneapolis, Minnesota has been doing custom building for many years. He's on Facebook, Twitter, etc. Has many guides on YouTube, several about vent holes:
https://www.youtube.com/c/BillOwen_gaming_pc_case_mods_mnpctech/search?query=case mods

Thanks for taking a look and giving me some feedback. Well, I planned to use a jigsaw as it’s the cheapest option but I do know someone who has a CNC machine but whether or not that’s an option or if he would help me is another matter. I think I want to cut out space for a grill but could use a drill with a circular cutter if I just wanted fan holes.

I did consider the following for the side vent. Cut the hole screw to case an you are done.

AC Infinity Ventilation Grille, for PC Computer AV Electronic Cabinets, also mounts two 120mm Fans : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Free delivery and returns on eligible orders. Buy AC Infinity Ventilation Grille, for PC Computer AV Electronic Cabinets, also mounts two 120mm Fans at Amazon UK.

www.amazon.co.uk

My initial setup with the drives on the cpu side and the PSU, a 140mm fan would be obscured. I assume what you are suggesting is have 2 hard drives on each side and therefore creating a gap for air to flow in on via the intake fan. My question is, with a 140mm fan installed and a vent on the GPU side, will the rear exhaust be adequate, or should I be concerned.

You can definitely remove the drive bays and I agree you’d need to in order to cut the fan hole, but I’d have to modify/shorten the drive bay to remount the hard drives on that side. Unless you consider that sacrificing the whole drive bay is the way to go?

It does make a rather compelling argument to watercool the system

I appreciate the link and when I get to started on this this build I’ll be sure to document it.

Thanks for the suggestions

 

[doyll]

I suggest you ask your friend to take a look at your case and tell you if he can use CNC on it. If he can CNC it, the program could do a grill in side panels like your 2nd image post #12. I suspect your friend would rather do round holes than slots like 1st image same post becuase it's generally easier to drill rows of holes than mill series of slots. Could probably find paint in model or train hobby shop. Mix / blend color to match, then use a small round brush to carefully paint insides of holes. Maybe have friend drill a similar thickness of scrap for you to practice painting holes in. I'm guessing very runny paint with not too much on brush and rub it around inside of hole. I've often been lucky and had black felt marker blacken holes nicely. Isopropyl alcohol removes felt marker and won't damage case paint.