CPU variations

[Shrek]

CPUs are binned for speed, that's the easy bit...

But how much is variations for disabled parts, for example if 6 cores work out of 8 so two are disabled and the chip is sold as the 6 core version; or part of the cache is disabled as faulty.

 

[natr0n]

I can say like this. When enough faulty parts are collected they get labeled and shipped.

Sometimes you have variations in batches to fulfill demand. They will laser cut whats not needed working or not.

 

[cvaldes]

Apple has done this for years.

They've put binned SoCs in various devices as necessary and not just on iPhone. I believe some binned parts ended up in Apple TV set-top boxes. I know they deliberately underclocked the SoC in the iPod touch (6th generation) to reduce power consumption.

They continue to frequently use binned parts in lower tier models when one of the GPU cores is defective in a full-fat die.

Great way to improve yield.

Undoubtedly Intel and AMD are selling some binned CPU parts to OEM/enterprise customers at a slight discount. You don't find these much at retail. Unlike Apple they have non-retail channels to divert these parts to. A lot of tech hardware has enterprise variants that consumers never see.

And because there are no obvious price tags for enterprise customers, a reasonable price can be confidentially negotiated without devaluing the brand from the consumer viewpoint. This is not specific to CPUs or just PC hardware components, this pretty much happens in every industry since the beginning of civilization. Person A is a farmer and need a new wheel for his wagon? It will cost Person A ____ gold pieces. Person B is a Roman general and needs wheels for a fleet of chariots? Well, Person B will pay a different price per wheel. Same with overripe tomatoes or apples with blemished skins.

In the GPU market it is well known that binned parts are sold as retail products due to the tiered offerings of each GPU generation. Hell, even the RTX 4090 is a slightly binned version of the full-fat GPU sold for 2-3x in AI accelerators.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Apple has done this for years.

It goes way back, even before then. And contrary to what some believe and want others to believe, this practice is NOT the company being devious or deceptive, but rather it is a wise and sound business practice that helps keep production costs down, losses at a minimum, profits up AND consumer prices down too.

I was fortunate to tour a Schneider floppy disk factory in Germany way back in the late 1970s. They were making 5 1/4 inch floppies. Back then, floppies were designated as,

SS/SD - single sided/single density​

SS/DD - single sided/double density​

DS/SD - double sided/single density​

DS/DD - double sided/double density​

DS/DD was the best you could get. It meant you could write data to both sides of the disk, and pack in twice as much data on each side.

Every disk made was made to be DS/DD. "EVERY" disk! This allows the company to build, tool, and maintain one factory to product one product only - instead of multiple production lines at much higher costs.

However, because we humans are not perfect, and have yet to learn how to manufacture perfection 100% of the time, manufacturing techniques, raw materials and other factors frequently introduce imperfections into the finished product.

So, when a DS/DD floppy came off the production line, it was tested. If it passed double density tests on both sides, it was labeled DS/DD.

But as frequently happened, it failed density tests on one or both sides. So, instead of tossing those floppies into the trash bin as "total losses", they were labeled as single sided or single density as applicable, then packaged and sold at lower costs. The companies still turned profits keeping the prices of the DS/DD floppies down. A very good thing.

So the same practice is applied elsewhere in many industries. Among the IT industries, that includes hard disk platters, memory modules (RAM, flash, SSD, etc.), and processors too.

I can say like this. When enough faulty parts are collected they get labeled and shipped.

While the point is valid, not sure "faulty" is the correct word. These devices, when used in the application they are marketed for, work perfectly and are not faulty.

So from a "manufacturing" viewpoint, they have faults. But from a "marketing" and thus consumer viewpoint, they don't. They perform their tasks as advertised.

 

[cvaldes]

I was fortunate to tour a Schneider floppy disk factory in Germany way back in the late 1970s. [post truncated for brevity]

I'm not sure OP can relate to the floppy disk anecdote. I mentioned the Apple example because it is ongoing practice from the #2 public company (by market cap).

Anyhow, people have been selling "binned" products for as long as there has been a marketplace.

The agricultural examples actually make the most sense because Mother Nature always makes sure not everything that grows will be perfect. Looking at that shiny softball-sized Fuji apple at Whole Foods Market doesn't reflect what happens in an apple orchard. If you have ever grown one plant in your life, you will know that not everything is perfect all the time.

There is ALWAYS a market for less than perfect items, whether the name is: discards, sort-outs, binned, blemished, B stock, overripe, whatever.

 

[natr0n]

It goes way back, even before then. And contrary to what some believe and want others to believe, this practice is NOT the company being devious or deceptive, but rather it is a wise and sound business practice that helps keep production costs down, losses at a minimum, profits up AND consumer prices down too.

I was fortunate to tour a Schneider floppy disk factory in Germany way back in the late 1970s. They were making 5 1/4 inch floppies. Back then, floppies were designated as,

SS/SD - single sided/single density​

SS/DD - single sided/double density​

DS/SD - double sided/single density​

DS/DD - double sided/double density​

DS/DD was the best you could get. It meant you could write data to both sides of the disk, and pack in twice as much data on each side.

Every disk made was made to be DS/DD. "EVERY" disk! This allows the company to build, tool, and maintain one factory to product one product only - instead of multiple production lines at much higher costs.

However, because we humans are not perfect, and have yet to learn how to manufacture perfection 100% of the time, manufacturing techniques, raw materials and other factors frequently introduce imperfections into the finished product.

So, when a DS/DD floppy came off the production line, it was tested. If it passed double density tests on both sides, it was labeled DS/DD.

But as frequently happened, it failed density tests on one or both sides. So, instead of tossing those floppies into the trash bin as "total losses", they were labeled as single sided or single density as applicable, then packaged and sold at lower costs. The companies still turned profits keeping the prices of the DS/DD floppies down. A very good thing.

So the same practice is applied elsewhere in many industries. Among the IT industries, that includes hard disk platters, memory modules (RAM, flash, SSD, etc.), and processors too.


While the point is valid, not sure "faulty" is the correct word. These devices, when used in the application they are marketed for, work perfectly and are not faulty.

So from a "manufacturing" viewpoint, they have faults. But from a "marketing" and thus consumer viewpoint, they don't. They perform their tasks as advertised.

non top tier binnings/binned I guess would be better to say

 

[Bill_Bright]

I'm not sure OP can relate to the floppy disk anecdote.

Sure he can. Shrek and I go way back before he even was Shrek! He's no spring chicken (no offense meant!) and knows very well what a floppy disk is.

non top tier binnings/binned I guess

Yeah, that works.

 

[Onasi]

There are also different levels to binning. Obviously. For example, both 8 and 16 core Zen parts are using full CCDs. One and two of them respectively. To my knowledge, 16 cores get slightly better bins in terms of efficiency, to make sure that the overall power budget is still within spec despite double the core count. I would assume expensive high core EPYC chips are using even more tightly binned CCDs for the same reason. Or take the KS specials Intel makes - those are theoretically the best silicon they can make with any sort of repeatable regularity that can reasonably support increased frequency and voltages.

Reverse is true too, like NV using really bad higher tier dies with a lot of disabled parts in lower tier GPUs that normally those wouldn’t have gone to. 4060Ti with a AD104, for example. Normal practice by the tail end of the generation to clean out the stock. Better to utilize those in SOME way rather than let them go to waste.

 

[68Olds]

for example if 6 cores work out of 8 so two are disabled and the chip is sold as the 6 core version

I'm pretty sure the Microcenter exclusive 5600X3D is an example of just that.

 

[Shrek]

Sure he can. Shrek and I go way back before he even was Shrek! He's no spring chicken (no offense meant!) and knows very well what a floppy disk is.

I recall 8" floppies

 

[Bill_Bright]

My first experience with floppies was with 8" floppies too.

There are also different levels to binning.

Right. This was what I was trying to illustrate with floppies.

Binning does not automatically mean the "trash" bin. And even when something ends up in the trash bin, it often ends up being recycled back into raw materials to be made into something else to help prevent total loss. In any case, this is good business, not bad or deceitful.

Again, it is about how the product we, as consumers, see on the shelf are marketed, not manufactured.

 

[Onasi]

Right. This was what I was trying to illustrate with floppies.

Binning does not automatically mean the "trash" bin. And even when something ends up in the trash bin, it often ends up being recycled back into raw materials to be made into something else to help prevent total loss. In any case, this is good business, not bad or deceitful.

Precisely. Hell, one can “bin” from the “trash” bin (rhyme!). We all know that the 4090 is, essentially, fairly scuffed silicon, despite being the “halo” consumer card. It’s heavily cut down and it’s obvious that NV reserves the best dies for the professional cards, like the RTX6000. But there is an example of the Asus 4090 Matrix - that used the best bins of the 4090 chips to ensure the fullest OC potential and one of those still holds the GPU OC record for now. It’s all about what you are trying to achieve.

 

[Panther_Seraphin]

Precisely. Hell, one can “bin” from the “trash” bin (rhyme!). We all know that the 4090 is, essentially, fairly scuffed silicon, despite being the “halo” consumer card. It’s heavily cut down and it’s obvious that NV reserves the best dies for the professional cards, like the RTX6000. But there is an example of the Asus 4090 Matrix - that used the best bins of the 4090 chips to ensure the fullest OC potential and one of those still holds the GPU OC record for now. It’s all about what you are trying to achieve.

Heavily cut down is a stretch.....its ~10% lower than a full die AD102 is capable of. Hence the 4090ti/titan always being on the Horizon if AMD managed to make something competitive.

CPUs are binned for speed, that's the easy bit...

But how much is variations for disabled parts, for example if 6 cores work out of 8 so two are disabled and the chip is sold as the 6 core version; or part of the cache is disabled as faulty.

Actually very common in practice. AMD has it best in their EPYC lines as its pretty much "Build a Bear" in terms of what they offer made up of full/part/minimal dies

8534P - 4 CCDs made up of 16 cores each
8024P - 4 CCDs made of of 2 cores each.
And everything in between.

Typically in GPUs the one below the top end and sometimes 2 below are made up of the same dies with aparts fused off. So 7900XTX and XT share cores as do 4090s and 4080s. However you can see later on in chipset/core life a "refresh" come out with differing configs.
GPUs you saw it with nVida supers this gen haveing some of their dies bump the core up from what it was (AD103 in a 4070) up a notch (AD102 in a 4070 Super) both to be able to sell/reclaim lower quality dies while also guaranteeing availability en mass of the new configured cards. Back in the day (Im talking MANY MANY years ago in the 6/7/8000 series Nvida cards) it was sometimes favourable to pick up those crippled cards as they sometimes either offered the ability to unlock via software some parts of the card or the bigger die actually offered better overclocking headroom than the full enabled dies of the same class card.